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Author Topic: Rank the tracks #15: 20/20  (Read 14012 times)
The Dumb Angel
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« Reply #25 on: January 03, 2013, 11:30:26 PM »

For a while, I haven't been a huge fan of 20/20 for whatever reason, but recently it has really grown on me and I think, even though it's quite the hodgepodge of an album, it's a very good and strong album.

1. Time To Get Alone - Perfection. One of my all time favorite BB's Tracks.
2. Cabinessence - Belongs on Smile, but that doesn't keep it from being another one of my favorites.
3. Do It Again - Extremely strong track. It's a classic.
4. Our Prayer - The incredible harmonies gives me chills.
5. I Can Hear Music - Awesome production by brother Carl.
6. I Went To Sleep - Could have fit very well on Friends. Very Beautiful song.
7. Be With Me - Incredible backing track!
8. Never Learn Not To Love - Great track, but I do enjoy Manson's version better.
9. Cotton Fields - Nice track, but the single version is definitely better.
10. Bluebirds Over The Mountain - It's a decent track. Kinda corny.
11. All I Want To Do - This song hasn't really grown on me yet, but I do like Mike's powerful vocals.
12. Nearest Faraway Place - It's okay.
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« Reply #26 on: January 03, 2013, 11:36:23 PM »

Unfortunately the individual songs are much better separated than in the album they're presented. I like everything here with the exception of Bluebirds Over the Mountain which is a bit... how can I put this elegantly... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yr_Rpk9HR1g
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« Reply #27 on: January 04, 2013, 12:03:20 AM »

1, "I Went To Sleep": awesome mellow, sleepy sound. I don't think I'm ever not in the mood to hear this; one of my favorites
2. "Cabinessence": I this stereo mix much better than the mono one on TSS
3. "Do It Again": insanely catchy, but believe it or not when I want to hear the song I usually listen to the reunion version
4. "Our Prayer": I much prefer this version with the added vocals over the TSS version
5. "Time To Get Alone": used to think it was overrated, but it really is a beautiful song
6. "I Can Hear Music": very nice production, great vocals, but I don't find myself having the urge to listen to it very often
7. "Be With Me": pretty song, shows Dennis had songwriting/production chops
8. "Cotton Fields (The Cotton Song)": I've kinda grown to prefer this version
9. "Bluebirds Over The Mountain": I didn't like it for a while, thought the whole screaming guitar thing was lame, but when I gave it a chance I kinda liked it
10. "The Nearest Faraway Place": pretty but honestly doesn't have replay value for me
11. "All I Want To Do": hits the spot sometimes, but a lot of the time it just comes off as The Beach Boys trying too hard to "rock"
12. "Never Learn Not To Love": even despite the Manson factor, it just doesn't do much for me
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Smilin Ed H
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« Reply #28 on: January 04, 2013, 02:25:08 AM »

1.   Cabinessence
2.   Our Prayer
3.   Time To Get Alone
4.   Be With Me
5.   Do It Again
6.   Cotton Fields
7.   Never Learn Not To Love
8.   I Went to Sleep
9.   I Can Hear Music
10.  The Nearest Faraway Palce
11.  All I Want to Do
12.  Bluebirds Over The Mountain
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« Reply #29 on: January 04, 2013, 04:58:43 AM »


8. I Can Hear Music - a bit "what people think the Beach Boys sound like". (Maybe I'm being unduly harsh out of amazement at people rating this cover version higher than Do It Again?)

Beautiful song, regardless of who wrote it.

Touché...
whatever a petard is, I think I've just been hoisted by one.
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SonicVolcano
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« Reply #30 on: January 04, 2013, 05:37:48 AM »

A strange album.

1. Time To Get Alone
2. Do It Again
3. All I Want To Do (the mono version is so much better)
4. Be With Me
5. Cabinessence
6. Our Prayer
7. Never Learn Not To Love
8. I Went To Sleep
9. I Can Hear Music
10. Cotton Fields
11. Nearest Faraway Place
12. Bluebirds over the Mountains
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I. Spaceman
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« Reply #31 on: January 04, 2013, 08:46:25 AM »


8. I Can Hear Music - a bit "what people think the Beach Boys sound like". (Maybe I'm being unduly harsh out of amazement at people rating this cover version higher than Do It Again?)

Beautiful song, regardless of who wrote it.

Touché...
whatever a petard is, I think I've just been hoisted by one.


I have been petarded for a long time now.
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« Reply #32 on: January 04, 2013, 10:16:28 AM »

1. Time To Get Alone
2. Cabinessence
3. I Can Hear Music
4. I Went To Sleep
5. All I Want To Do
6. Do It Again
7. Be With Me
8. Our Prayer
9. Never Learn Not To Love
10. Cotton Fields
11. Bluebirds Over The Mountain
12. The Nearest Faraway Place
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« Reply #33 on: January 04, 2013, 10:42:39 AM »

Time to dig out the LP again...
always sounded half poorly mixed to me, but then again playing the Mono Fold-down LP isn't the best option - if I can find a cheap stereo copy I would!

1) Time To Get Alone - a lush vocal and arragement, only marred by a very poor edit into the second(?) chorus.
2) Cabinessence - One of my favourite SMiLE era tracks out of context - PERFECT!
3) I Can Hear Music - so smooth, but that fade just ain't right...
4) All I Want To Do - I found this song to just be plain awesome when I first played it, and that awesome hasn't gone since.
5) The Nearest Faraway Place - Ever sat by a pool on holiday with this playing? You haven't holidayed...
6) Do It Again - that drum sound has always grated on me, and it sounds rather odd in structure with a wordless chorus...
7) Our Prayer - Beautiful, but I hate the sound of it on this release.
Cool Bluebirds Over The Mountain - Very enjoyable, but less than the above 7
9) Cottonfields - Imagine something between this and the single version...
10) I Went To Sleep - Never quite my cup of tea (I hate tea), but pleasant. Pleasant will do.
11) Be With Me - The sound of this has always put me off. I love Dennis tp death, but he wasn't quite shining here...
12) Never Learn not To Love - ...or here.
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« Reply #34 on: January 04, 2013, 11:28:56 AM »

12. Never Learn Not To Love.  It's not that I think it sounds bad,  It's the association with what's his face.  Bit too sensitive maybe but I don't like to listen to it.

In that case, you also shouldn't like Cotton Fields (written by Leadbelly, a convicted murderer), I Can Hear Music (co-written by Phil Spector, also a convicted murderer) and Cabinessence (with yet another convicted murderer, Jim Gordon, on drums/percussion).

If any of those guys were violent sociopaths and career criminals who had put together a murderous zombie-like cult following that slaughtered half a dozen people in cold blood with knives and terrorized a city before they got caught,  I'd probably feel the same about them. At any rate, one doesn't get the idea when listening to Cottonfields/The Cotton Song that the protagonist is trying to lure some unsuspecting soul into a death chamber.  It's a creepy song no matter who wrote it.
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« Reply #35 on: January 04, 2013, 11:34:59 AM »

1. Do It Again - A stone cold classic.
2. Never Learn Not To Love. - All the hoopla about who wrote it tends to overshadow the fact that it's one of Dennis's best ever productions.
3. Time To Get Alone - Everything on this just works, Carl's lead, the harmonies (esp Mike's), the strings on that middle eight, everything.
4. Cabinessance.
5. The Nearest Far Away Place. - Only in a band as great as The Beach Boys could Bruce's skills be so underrated.
6. I Can Hear Music - Blows away the original.
7. Our Prayer.
8. Be With Me - Poor lyrics, the backing track by itself is far superior. Dennis was arranging at a near Pet Sounds level on this one.
9. All I Want To Do - Basic rocker.
10. Cottonfields - OK but the single remake is roughly 10038 times better.
11. I Went To Sleep.
12. Bluebirds Over The Mountain - Man, this just sucks.
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« Reply #36 on: January 04, 2013, 11:44:51 AM »

For a hodge-podge of singles and tracks that were lying around this is one fine album!

1) Cabinessence - probably my all time favourite Beach Boys song, just incredible
2) Our Prayer - the best a cappella harmony singing I will ever hear, Brian wanted spiritual music and man he nailed it
3) Be With Me - first time I heard this I didn't like it, not sure why because Dennis knocks this one out the park
4) Never Learn Not To Love - can't understand why this is rated so low by so many, another home run from Dennis
5) Time To Get Alone - Lovely stuff, the 'deep and wide' is brilliant as are the strings, only thing I don't like is the Wild Honey era piano sound
6) I Can Hear Music - great production and lead from Carl, the a cappella break is fantastic
7) Do It Again - took me a while to get into this as initially disliked the drum sound on the intro but has grown on me massively
Cool All I Want To Do - straightforward and unsophisticated but it rocks and I like it
9) I Went To Sleep - nice enough but a bit soporific, which might be the point
10) The Nearest Far Away Place - a bit twee perhaps but this is Bruce's second best Beach Boys song after Disney Girls
11) Cottonfields - limp and uninspiring, Al's version is vastly superior
12) Bluebirds Over The Mountain - f*** off!  
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« Reply #37 on: January 04, 2013, 03:04:49 PM »

1) Time To Get Alone
2) Be With Me  (Really a tie with 1 & 2 for me -- too hard to pick. This is my favorite Dennis song. Ever. And both tracks are in my Top Ten for the band.)
3) Cabinessence
4) Our Prayer
5) I Can Hear Music
6) Never Learn Not To Love
7) I Went to Sleep (Another tie between 5, 6 & 7.)
Cool The Nearest Faraway Place
9) Cottonfields (Like them both but slightly prefer the single.)
10) Do It Again
11) Bluebirds Over The Mountain
12) All I Want To Do


Note: Even the lower-ranked tracks don't necessarily imply a total lack of quality or a "dislike" for me. I pretty much love this album from start to finish...with little exception. Praise cobbling.
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« Reply #38 on: January 05, 2013, 04:13:25 PM »

12. Never Learn Not To Love.  It's not that I think it sounds bad,  It's the association with what's his face.  Bit too sensitive maybe but I don't like to listen to it.

In that case, you also shouldn't like Cotton Fields (written by Leadbelly, a convicted murderer), I Can Hear Music (co-written by Phil Spector, also a convicted murderer) and Cabinessence (with yet another convicted murderer, Jim Gordon, on drums/percussion).

If any of those guys were violent sociopaths and career criminals who had put together a murderous zombie-like cult following that slaughtered half a dozen people in cold blood with knives and terrorized a city before they got caught,  I'd probably feel the same about them. At any rate, one doesn't get the idea when listening to Cottonfields/The Cotton Song that the protagonist is trying to lure some unsuspecting soul into a death chamber.  It's a creepy song no matter who wrote it.

Thank NHC, that's how I feel about it.  And the fact that often people search out the song just because of the association,  and others that think it's hip because it's all about the art and they are oh so cool and badass like that.   I wish it wasn't on 20/20 and pretty sure Dennis and the BB's would have preferred the song wasn't on there, no matter how good it sounded.  But it is.. doesn't mean I have to appreciate it just because it's "art" though.
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« Reply #39 on: January 05, 2013, 04:23:31 PM »

Or maybe, the fact than Manson was capable of writing good songs, and was in fact touted to labels by not just Dennis Wilson, but others such as Neil Young, is the ultimate lesson that art should be judged on its own terms. No one should feel like they are on a high moral horse because they get creeped out listening to a song. That implies that others who do enjoy the song are doing something wrong. They're not.
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« Reply #40 on: January 05, 2013, 04:31:16 PM »

And I don't think I should be wrong for feeling that way about the song either!  Was just defending my feelings.  And because I don't know much abut his songwriting abilities as you mentioned, please tell me, and I mean this with all seriousness, if he was touted by others such as Neil Young, were any of his songs used or recorded after the murders?  Surely if art should be judged on it's own terms and the songs were good, that would be the case?   
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« Reply #41 on: January 05, 2013, 04:46:45 PM »

Yes, his songs have been recorded by folks ranging from Redd Kross to Guns N' Roses. Manson's own recordings are fairly mellow freak-folk, not far from even Gordon Lightfoot at times. It is a shame that he couldn't have channeled some obvious talent into a positive direction. Manson was the guru to his cult, but all that "devil" and "helter skelter" stuff is hype built up by him and his prosecutor. The famous Tate and LaBianca slayings, as high-profile as they were, were merely copycat crimes designed to exonerate the truly charismatic member of the clan, Bobby Beausoleil (a former member of an early lineup of Love), after he committed a drug murder.
The Manson cult is indeed disgusting, and it isn't cool to get into him for ghoulish, "naughty" reasons. But good music is good music, no matter the personal life of the artist.
Personally, I was highly disgusted to find out that the bass player of The Mothers Of Invention, Little Feat and Captain Beefheart fame, Roy Estrada, is a convicted child molester. But I can't burn every album he played on, or pretend not to enjoy his work as a musician.
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« Reply #42 on: January 05, 2013, 05:11:09 PM »

Yes, his songs have been recorded by folks ranging from Redd Kross to Guns N' Roses. Manson's own recordings are fairly mellow freak-folk, not far from even Gordon Lightfoot at times. It is a shame that he couldn't have channeled some obvious talent into a positive direction. Manson was the guru to his cult, but all that "devil" and "helter skelter" stuff is hype built up by him and his prosecutor. The famous Tate and LaBianca slayings, as high-profile as they were, were merely copycat crimes designed to exonerate the truly charismatic member of the clan, Bobby Beausoleil (a former member of an early lineup of Love), after he committed a drug murder.
The Manson cult is indeed disgusting, and it isn't cool to get into him for ghoulish, "naughty" reasons. But good music is good music, no matter the personal life of the artist.
Personally, I was highly disgusted to find out that the bass player of The Mothers Of Invention, Little Feat and Captain Beefheart fame, Roy Estrada, is a convicted child molester. But I can't burn every album he played on, or pretend not to enjoy his work as a musician.

Thanks for this reply.  I didn't know any of the above (mainly because I don't search it out) as you say he was obviously talented at writing songs (kills me to say this!) When someone has done something atrocious it's hard to believe or admit they have ever done anything decent or worthwhile, for me anyway.  I know it seems I got on my moral high horse, but as you stated it isn't cool to get into him for ghoulish reasons, and THAT is actually where my revulsion lies.   Hmm how would I feel if Brian had done the same?  I'd be devastated and wouldn't listen to his songs again (does that make me less of a fan?)  But...  I get that others would still love and listen   and yup, I'd just have to accept it.  Thanks again.
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« Reply #43 on: January 05, 2013, 05:46:26 PM »

obviously a lot of people like the song and enjoy Manson's music. nothing wrong with that in itself.

for me, it's what the song symbolizes more than who wrote it. the whole album symbolizes a real turning away from Brian as leader of the band, for whatever reasons. even as they mined the tape boxes and released his material against his will.

i find the 20/20 album very depressing. it's a huge bummer to see Cabin Essence and Our Prayer, two of the greatest songs from Brian's magnum opus just a couple years earlier, tacked haphazardly on the end of a total hodgepodge record. some of Brian's greatest stuff relegated to side 2 after so many mediocre cover tunes. the fact that a Charles Manson song is sandwiched right in the middle just adds insult to injury.

I Can See Music is just not that strong of a song in my opinion. Cottonfields is cool, but just another reworked folk tune in the end. Bluebirds Over the Mountain? please.

Do It Again is good enough song, but it is almost a cover tune in itself. It's Beach Boys-by numbers, and a clear sign that they had begun looking backward instead of forward.

it's cool that Dennis was writing more, but I think Celebrate The News is a stronger song than anything on 20/20. again, my opinion.
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« Reply #44 on: January 05, 2013, 06:46:57 PM »

Manson was the guru to his cult, but all that "devil" and "helter skelter" stuff is hype built up by him and his prosecutor. The famous Tate and LaBianca slayings, as high-profile as they were, were merely copycat crimes designed to exonerate the truly charismatic member of the clan, Bobby Beausoleil (a former member of an early lineup of Love), after he committed a drug murder.

Tell that to the families of the victims.  And i didn't realize there was anything "mere" about the second murders.  I don't give a good god-d*** about his so-called "art" or what famous musician thought it was good or who recorded it or anything else about it.  He was an evil monster who ruined the lives of many people, and that song is creepy.  Jim Jones of People's Temple/Jonestown "fame" taught in my high school in Northern California about the same time Manson was selling local kids their first dope and LSD.  I've seen first hand enough of the damage these two sociopaths did and am not interested in discussing the value of some savage cult leader's "art".  Art, schmart. Sorry, didn't mean to shout and nothing personal intended or implied.
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« Reply #45 on: January 05, 2013, 08:02:06 PM »

And i didn't realize there was anything "mere" about the second murders.  I don't give a good god-d*** about his so-called "art" or what famous musician thought it was good or who recorded it or anything else about it.  He was an evil monster who ruined the lives of many people, and that song is creepy.  

I wasn't trivializing the murders, and you know it.
Manson isn't evil, and he isn't a monster. Saying that gives him power he doesn't deserve and attracts people to him, it is the fuel his following runs on.
He is just a pathetic individual who was a product of his environment and mental imbalances. The lasting fame and infamy he has achieved was nearly entirely stoked and invented by his prosecutors, and those who choose to be frightened by this silly, sad little man.
Never Learn Not To Love is a creepy song, sure. Hey Little Tomboy is creepier.
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« Reply #46 on: January 05, 2013, 09:33:50 PM »

Never Learn Not To Love is a creepy song, sure. Hey Little Tomboy is creepier.
Especially the Adult/Child version.  Shocked
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« Reply #47 on: January 06, 2013, 03:40:44 AM »

And i didn't realize there was anything "mere" about the second murders.  I don't give a good god-d*** about his so-called "art" or what famous musician thought it was good or who recorded it or anything else about it.  He was an evil monster who ruined the lives of many people, and that song is creepy.  

I wasn't trivializing the murders, and you know it.
Manson isn't evil, and he isn't a monster. Saying that gives him power he doesn't deserve and attracts people to him, it is the fuel his following runs on.
He is just a pathetic individual who was a product of his environment and mental imbalances. The lasting fame and infamy he has achieved was nearly entirely stoked and invented by his prosecutors, and those who choose to be frightened by this silly, sad little man.
Never Learn Not To Love is a creepy song, sure. Hey Little Tomboy is creepier.

You guys do know that Dennis himself didn't consider Manson a murderer? I'm paraphrasing but he once was quoted along the lines of "Charlies a creep and an asshole, but he isn't a murderer. One day I will tell what I know about the murders".

Dennis's guilt was that he was partly responsible for helping Charles "Tex" Watson get a foothold in dealing drugs to the rich and famous, which in turn led to the killings.
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« Reply #48 on: January 07, 2013, 05:11:18 AM »

A+
Cabin Essence
I Went to Sleep
Our Prayer
Time to Get Alone
I Can Hear Music

A
Be with Me
Do It Again
Cotton Fields
Never Learn Not to Love

B
Bluebirds Over the Mountain
All I Want to Do

D
The Nearest Faraway Place
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« Reply #49 on: January 07, 2013, 05:19:08 AM »

1. Time To Get Alone (my favorite BB song for many years, still in my top 10)
2. Cabinessence
3. I Went To Sleep
4. I Can Hear Music
5. Do It Again
6. Our Prayer (would've been higher hadn't it been for the overdubs - much prefer the original 1966 version)
7. Never Learn Not To Love
8. All I Want To Do
9. Be With Me
10. Bluebirds Over The Mountain
11. The Nearest Faraway Place
12. Cottonfields (single version would have been second after Time To Get Alone)
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