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"Sweet and Bitter" and "Out In The Country"
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Topic: "Sweet and Bitter" and "Out In The Country" (Read 55738 times)
DonnyL
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Reply #100 on:
January 04, 2013, 09:14:03 PM »
Quote from: SurfRiderHawaii on January 04, 2013, 06:49:50 PM
Sounds to me like this guy is singing over the bootleg instrumental track of "Out in the country".
A lengthy Google search turned up zero hits on this guy. I think he is doing an impression
of Mike on "Sweet and bitter". And these tunes are an elaborate hoax. Just a wild guess.
no it's totally legit.
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DonnyL
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Reply #101 on:
January 04, 2013, 09:41:59 PM »
Quote from: ontor pertawst on January 04, 2013, 08:18:26 PM
The guy is such a huge Beach Boys fan that he has a band named Surf's Up that covers their music, got his whole family to sing their music, has a son who does Mike Love voices, and yet never did anything with these recordings before, talked with anyone online about them, or even mentioned he was a former collaborator of Brian's in chintzy PR videos for his Beach Boys Distant Family and Friends Band? Doesn't add up, now does it. A Beach Boys fan of that intensity you would think would have some crappy geocities page from the dark ages of the net waxing poetic about "that time I worked with Brian." Would be milking his distant connection for all it was worth. Would've been interviewed somewhere. Would have one of the crazy BB fans on here nodding at the mention of his name... would at least trigger an anecdote or two!
Plus, if they did have an outside songwriter... that Brian wanted to "write us a hit" .... with Desper engineering... why the hell would the songwriter get custody of the multitracks? Plus, at that point Desper would be on tour with Zappa, right?
Of course, if someone would vouch for him I could believe it. Anybody? It's hilarious regardless. 2013 is gonna be fun.
Ok, Don/Donnie/Donny. Show yerself! You know he's reading this.
I promise you guys these tracks are real. There are some obvious modern overdubs here and there, but the basic tracks sound completely legit. People spend years and years trying to get this kind of sound ... you can't just click a plug-in to get it. And that's certainly Mike Love singing on 'Sweet and Bitter'. And Desper's sonic signature is present (listen to the vocals on 'Out in the Country' -- the processing is pure Desper. It's that spatial thing ...
grab a good pair of headphones. Listen to 'Tears in the Morning [orig. Sunflower mix] or Mike's vocal on 'Add Some Music', then listen to Golderg's 'Out in the Country'
). The 'New Years Eve' thing sounds completely different. Certainly the same guy singing, but the sonic texture is not the same.
This guy somehow got photos of 2 reels of tape that are almost IMPOSSIBLE to find ... 2" reels of Agfa PER 525? Almost no one used this tape in the U.S. except Desper. And it was the type of tape that was used for 'Sunflower', 'Surf's Up', etc. He just happened to come across a couple of these reels, along with personalized BB photos from the period? And a perfect Mike Love impersonator?
BW and Ricky on a session? Sure, it was a demo session for the song. BW and DG needed a drummer ... Ricky was available and the Beach Boys' drummer at the time.
So yeh this guy has a bunch of youtube accounts. He's an older guy. Lots of older people are not that good at using the internet. He creates a Youtube account, then forgets his password or something. Some people add comments, so he creates another account to add notes.
Or ... my guess is that Donny Jr. is behind the thing. If you look at his other videos, he has some '80s tribute band and makes his own recordings. Sounds like he got his dad's tapes and helped him get them together for release. Some of the drum fills on his tribute-band version of 'Take on Me' sounds strikingly similar to that wonky fill in 'Sweet and Bitter'! He has channel named 'Donny Goldberg'. Maybe he set up 'Don Goldberg' for his dad, and the real Don Goldberg used a different account.
So let's say Goldberg was involved with the Beach Boys scene in the early '70s. Eventually moved on to whatever. Came up with a family tribute band later on ('90s/'00s, whatever), just like plenty of the group's fringe musical associates have done. And his son sounds nothing like Mike Love!
And trust me, master tapes were not treated the way people think they were. They get lost all the time. People leave studios with them, etc. These all seem like 'demo' type situations, certainly works in progress, not full master tapes. They obviously didn't end up using this guy's songs, so I don't see any reason why he wouldn't end up with the tapes. It's also possible (though seems unlikely) that DG bankrolled the demos, so he would own the tapes.
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Last Edit: January 05, 2013, 12:10:14 AM by DonnyL
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bgas
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Reply #102 on:
January 04, 2013, 09:50:55 PM »
and I am SO glad there are those on here that REALLY know their sh*t, and can put that into coherent sentences( something I can't always manage)
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Mikie
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Reply #103 on:
January 04, 2013, 10:28:46 PM »
It's hard to deny that that's Mike Love on "Sweet & Bitter". I have no doubt that it is. I don't know about "Desper's sonic signature spacial thing" or what kind of recording tape he was using (could it shatter a wine glass upon playback?) or what the name of Brian's after-shave that he was using that day, and I don't have reservations about the pictures/autographs, but I do wonder if the original tape was messed with as far as over-dubbing or other after the fact recording.
I'd like to hear from Steve Desper, although I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't recollect any of this, or maybe even a little bit, or has no copies of it in storage. I know Steve isn't expected to remember EVERYTHING he recorded in the early 70's, but it seems to me if these were important enough Beach Boys/related tracks, he probably would have remembered right off the bat.
And if AGD has anything further after more research of course, I'd defer to him.
As Surfrider says, it's funny you can't find the guy's name on the Internet after a simple Google search. That's kinda suspicious...
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Blake Alan
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Re: \
«
Reply #104 on:
January 04, 2013, 11:54:23 PM »
Quote from: Don Malcolm on January 04, 2013, 08:51:51 PM
However, the timeline seems shaky...was this guy a "prodigy" in 1970-73? That picture of what purports to be a "young Don Goldberg" looks like someone who was maybe 17-21 years old. If it's actually from that time, that would make him close to sixty now. The dad in the videos doesn't look sixty, so those have to be old--maybe about ten years or so.
The copyright office lists his birth year as 1950, which would make him 21-23 for sessions held between '71 and '73. Totally plausible for an "up and coming songwriter".
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phirnis
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Reply #105 on:
January 04, 2013, 11:55:16 PM »
"Write us a hit!!!"? Were they really that desperate?
"Sweet and Bitter" sounds like something they probably should've used as a b-side. They'd often use mere album tracks around that time, which I think is kind of pointless when they had lots of good or even very good stuff just lying around.
"Faded Love Songs" is completely run-of-the-mill, to my ears there's nothing outstanding about it.
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Jay
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Reply #106 on:
January 05, 2013, 12:41:54 AM »
Quote from: SurfRiderHawaii on January 04, 2013, 06:49:50 PM
Sounds to me like this guy is singing over the bootleg instrumental track of "Out in the country".
A lengthy Google search turned up zero hits on this guy. I think he is doing an impression
of Mike on "Sweet and bitter". And these tunes are an elaborate hoax. Just a wild guess.
Is there a circulating version of Out In The Country that I'm not aware of? The only one I've heard is Al singing part of the lyrics over a slow organ "drone". This "new" version considerably faster, although it does have the same melody basically. I'm rather perplexed on how you could think it sounds like this guy has merely added his own vocal "over the bootleg instrumental track".
The Sweet and Bitter track definitely sounds a lot like Mike. I'd say it's probably a 95% probability that it's him. Although it doesn't sound anything like a Sunflower era Beach Boys recording to me. To me it sounds more like an MIU or KTSA era recording.
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SurfRiderHawaii
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Re:
«
Reply #107 on:
January 05, 2013, 01:37:41 AM »
Quote from: Jay on January 05, 2013, 12:41:54 AM
Quote from: SurfRiderHawaii on January 04, 2013, 06:49:50 PM
Sounds to me like this guy is singing over the bootleg instrumental track of "Out in the country".
A lengthy Google search turned up zero hits on this guy. I think he is doing an impression
of Mike on "Sweet and bitter". And these tunes are an elaborate hoax. Just a wild guess.
Is there a circulating version of Out In The Country that I'm not aware of? The only one I've heard is Al singing part of the lyrics over a slow organ "drone". This "new" version considerably faster, although it does have the same melody basically. I'm rather perplexed on how you could think it sounds like this guy has merely added his own vocal "over the bootleg instrumental track".
The Sweet and Bitter track definitely sounds a lot like Mike. I'd say it's probably a 95% probability that it's him. Although it doesn't sound anything like a Sunflower era Beach Boys recording to me. To me it sounds more like an MIU or KTSA era recording.
Quote from: Jay on January 05, 2013, 12:41:54 AM
Quote from: SurfRiderHawaii on January 04, 2013, 06:49:50 PM
Sounds to me like this guy is singing over the bootleg instrumental track of "Out in the country".
A lengthy Google search turned up zero hits on this guy. I think he is doing an impression
of Mike on "Sweet and bitter". And these tunes are an elaborate hoax. Just a wild guess.
Is there a circulating version of Out In The Country that I'm not aware of? The only one I've heard is Al singing part of the lyrics over a slow organ "drone". This "new" version considerably faster, although it does have the same melody basically. I'm rather perplexed on how you could think it sounds like this guy has merely added his own vocal "over the bootleg instrumental track".
The Sweet and Bitter track definitely sounds a lot like Mike. I'd say it's probably a 95% probability that it's him. Although it doesn't sound anything like a Sunflower era Beach Boys recording to me. To me it sounds more like an MIU or KTSA era recording.
The facts just don't add up. Take for example that Goldberg credits he and Brian for "Out in the Country" when Alan Boyd has confirmed it's an Al tune.
Does sound like Mike gotta admit.
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Eric Aniversario
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Reply #108 on:
January 05, 2013, 01:58:37 AM »
I looked up Donny Goldberg (the younger one) on facebook, and he and I have 2 mutual friends: Chris Farmer and Phil Bardowell, so there is another Beach Boys connection.
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Last Edit: January 05, 2013, 02:04:20 AM by Eric Aniversario
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ohthosegirls
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Reply #109 on:
January 05, 2013, 06:30:07 AM »
Quote from: Jay on January 05, 2013, 12:41:54 AM
Quote from: SurfRiderHawaii on January 04, 2013, 06:49:50 PM
The Sweet and Bitter track definitely sounds a lot like Mike. I'd say it's probably a 95% probability that it's him. Although it doesn't sound anything like a Sunflower era Beach Boys recording to me. To me it sounds more like an MIU or KTSA era recording.
I think that piano that comes in on "Sweet & Bitter" screams late 60's early 70's era Beach Boys.
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Don Malcolm
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Re: \
«
Reply #110 on:
January 05, 2013, 08:37:12 AM »
Quote from: Blake Alan on January 04, 2013, 11:54:23 PM
Quote from: Don Malcolm on January 04, 2013, 08:51:51 PM
However, the timeline seems shaky...was this guy a "prodigy" in 1970-73? That picture of what purports to be a "young Don Goldberg" looks like someone who was maybe 17-21 years old. If it's actually from that time, that would make him close to sixty now. The dad in the videos doesn't look sixty, so those have to be old--maybe about ten years or so.
The copyright office lists his birth year as 1950, which would make him 21-23 for sessions held between '71 and '73. Totally plausible for an "up and coming songwriter".
Yeah, that does make sense...and that would mean that a lot of the gig footage for that "Surf's Up!" band is from much further in the past. Donny Goldberg's Facebook page indicates that he graduated from Corona High School in 1989, which means that he's at least pushing forty. The lead singer in those videos is much younger than that.
Buried in the photos on Donny Goldberg's Facebook page is a shot from maybe 4 years ago with Don Sr. in it. It's close-up enough to get a reasonable look at his face. He could be a guy in his late fifties whose combination of good genes and taking care of himself makes him look 10-15 years younger--though in this shot all of 'em look like they're a little "worse from wear" after apparently downing an indeterminate number of brewskis... Therefore, the footage in the Surf's Up band videos would then date from at least ten (and possibly as much as twenty) years ago--plausible in light of the description accompanying the video, which states that it's a "history" of the band taken over the years.
So the timeline does, in fact, seem to mesh with the statements in the "S & B," "Out in the Country" and "Fading Love Song" videos.
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adamghost
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Reply #111 on:
January 05, 2013, 01:48:33 PM »
Just gave these a listen. I don't have much to add...kudos to the thread for the thorough dissection.
My only comments:
1. If the lead vocal on "Sweet and Bitter" isn't Mike Love, I'll eat my hat.
2. Brian playing bass in '71 -- unusual, yes, but he certainly could do it if he wanted to. He was the band's main bass player in '78 and was perfectly competent at it then. I could see it happening for a demo session if there was no one around to do it and it was quicker than showing the part to Carl.
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Autotune
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Reply #112 on:
January 05, 2013, 04:36:38 PM »
First 2 couplets of out in the country = ding dang.
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seltaeb1012002
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Reply #113 on:
January 05, 2013, 05:00:48 PM »
Quote from: Dr. Lenny on January 05, 2013, 04:36:38 PM
First 2 couplets of out in the country = ding dang.
Great observation!
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Reply #114 on:
January 05, 2013, 05:26:43 PM »
Quote from: ohthosegirls on January 04, 2013, 05:27:04 PM
Fading Love Song
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34KwL9RFSCI
Just posted so I haven't even heard it yet!
Not bad..
Carl would have sounded beautiful on that one
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Reply #115 on:
January 06, 2013, 12:27:14 AM »
The BW writing on the "Fading Love Song" video sure looks like Brian's cursive circa 1968-70, and the photo is definitely from 1970... but... something still feels just a little bit wrong. My main problem, as noted before, is that if SWD did engineer these tracks (except "FLS", as stated) then they cannot date from past fall 1971, unless they are BW solo projects with the family helping out a bit. Plausible but... I'd like a few firm dates, please: 1971-1973 covers way too much ground.
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runnersdialzero
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Reply #116 on:
January 06, 2013, 01:21:12 AM »
Al Jardine is fucking audible x 938593859385 in the chorus on "Out In The Country". I don't understand why the validity of this is still debated when it was posted along with what is very obviously an unheard Mike Love lead.
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Reply #117 on:
January 06, 2013, 01:49:06 AM »
Quote from: runnersdialzero! on January 06, 2013, 01:21:12 AM
Al Jardine is f***ing audible x 938593859385 in the chorus on "Out In The Country". I don't understand why the validity of this is still debated when it was posted along with what is very obviously an unheard Mike Love lead.
I also hear Al in Out In The Country. Maybe it's just wishful thinking, but I'm hearing Brian, Al, and possibly Carl in the vocal blend as the song is fading.
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Andrew G. Doe
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Reply #118 on:
January 06, 2013, 04:35:12 AM »
Just had a closer look at Brian's message on the photo, and I'm not so sure now. The sig looks like it's been clumsily traced over and there are other inconsistencies. Irrespective of the music, that part of the package doesn't stand up to close scrutiny.
On "S&B", there a date on a photo - 3/26/70 - which cannot be accurate as regards the vocal by Mike (and I'm 99% sure it is Mike), as he was hospitalized at the time after his ill-advised fast, or at best had been very recently discharged. Also, assuming they all signed at the same time... why three different ink colors ? Further, the date on the photo conflicts with the "recorded shortly after
Sunflower
was released" claim by some six months. Small stuff, but I'm assuming this was the biggest thing that ever happened to Don in his musical career, so I'd expect better, more accurate recall and documentation.
Final observation re: "Country" - we have February 1972 dates, which of course were not engineered by SWD, so this must predate the version we've known before. Granted the basic melody is the same, but would the arrangement really deteriorate from a perky sub-country number to the dirge that Alan sings ? Illogical, Captain...
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Last Edit: January 06, 2013, 05:01:06 AM by Andrew G. Doe
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Reply #119 on:
January 06, 2013, 06:01:36 AM »
Quote from: Andrew G. Doe on January 06, 2013, 04:35:12 AM
J Granted the basic melody is the same, but would the arrangement really deteriorate from a perky sub-country number to the dirge that Alan sings ? Illogical, Captain...
hears an uneducated guess... the dirge that Al is singing may have been Al singing a scratch vocal over what is only a track that was unearthed later (72 as opposed to 71).. the reason that it's lost its perky sub-country feel is that , that part of the song wasn't there anymore, (gone with Mr.Goldberg)
I'm picturing the BB in studio, (perhaps without Brian) going through various tapes looking for usable material and unearthing that track and tinkering with it without the bass/banjo/drum track..
guess/opinion fwiw
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Blake Alan
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Reply #120 on:
January 06, 2013, 06:57:05 AM »
Quote from: Andrew G. Doe on January 06, 2013, 04:35:12 AM
On "S&B", there a date on a photo - 3/26/70 - which cannot be accurate as regards the vocal by Mike (and I'm 99% sure it is Mike), as he was hospitalized at the time after his ill-advised fast, or at best had been very recently discharged. Also, assuming they all signed at the same time... why three different ink colors ? Further, the date on the photo conflicts with the "recorded shortly after
Sunflower
was released" claim by some six months. Small stuff, but I'm assuming this was the biggest thing that ever happened to Don in his musical career, so I'd expect better, more accurate recall and documentation.
One quick observation: If you look at the autographs and the 3/26/70 date (0:43 seconds into the video), it looks like the full note says "Don Goldberg, good luck with your songs! The Beach Boys 3/26/70". So perhaps he was not involved with them at this point, later developed a relationship with Brian and got him/the band to help cut a few of his songs. Just a guess.
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Reply #121 on:
January 06, 2013, 08:29:12 AM »
Quote from: Mikie on January 04, 2013, 04:49:12 PM
http://www.nme.com/nme-video/youtube/id/GbEZEGaiXpY
these 'new' finds are really cool, but that clip with the Al lead is absolutely amazing.
Great thread
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Reply #122 on:
January 06, 2013, 09:01:20 AM »
What does the inscription "To Don, Brian Wilson Write us a hit!!" on one of the photos mean? It's at :48 of 'Fading Love Song.'Was this guy pitching songs to the Beach Boys? Was Brother Publishing considering signing him as a writer? Or was it just something encouraging to say to a young singer/songwriter.
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seltaeb1012002
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Reply #123 on:
January 06, 2013, 09:48:12 AM »
Quote from: Olmec Donald on January 06, 2013, 09:01:20 AM
What does the inscription "To Don, Brian Wilson Write us a hit!!" on one of the photos mean? It's at :48 of 'Fading Love Song.'Was this guy pitching songs to the Beach Boys? Was Brother Publishing considering signing him as a writer? Or was it just something encouraging to say to a young singer/songwriter.
Well, I don't know for sure, but it looks like Brian had a hand in producing these records (as well as co-writing Out In The Country with Don), so I'd have to guess that Brian really thought highly of the guy's writing and thought there was potential there for the BB's. If u listen to Sydney Calls Brian Wilson 1974, Brian notes how he was having a hard time coming up with the right material for the Beach Boys, but he was trying. I think that supports that Don was just one of possibly many writers Brian was working with to come up with that next hit, or the next direction for the band. I actually like the direction of these songs.. might've been more commercial than "So Tough" + "Holland", but, no doubt those albums contain ultimately edgier material. Holland anyway.
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Last Edit: January 06, 2013, 10:19:53 AM by seltaeb1012002
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Smilin Ed H
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Reply #124 on:
January 06, 2013, 10:37:14 AM »
I think I prefer the dirge version...
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