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Author Topic: "Sweet and Bitter" and "Out In The Country"  (Read 30283 times)
doc smiley
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« on: January 02, 2013, 01:51:02 PM »

Just getting this onto the main forum...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7nqaz99_ms

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwvD_E-s2iE

who is Don Goldberg and where has he been all my life??
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Bill M
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« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2013, 02:11:57 PM »

Mr. Goldberg state in the video that "Sweet and Bitter" was recorded just after the Sunflower sessions.  AGD's site has a Mike Love session with unknown title for 10/28/70, which would fit this time period.  Could that be it?

He also states that "Out in the Country" is from the Surf's Up / Holland era.  That would be a pretty long era:  4/71 through 12/72!  Since David Sandler seems to be involved in that track, perhaps this could be from the Wilson / Sandler sessions from Feb. through April of '72?  Ricky Fataar & Tandyn Almer are reportedly on there as well, so probably not pre 1972.

Who knows?
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« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2013, 02:35:22 PM »

 Cool
« Last Edit: January 02, 2013, 02:56:55 PM by Cabinessenceking » Logged
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« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2013, 02:43:19 PM »

Fascinating stuff!  I'd really like to know more about Don Goldberg and these sessions, as well as hear the other tracks listed on the Out in the Country video.  Hopefully Stephen Desper will chime in with his recollections.

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« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2013, 02:49:27 PM »

alright!  nothing like a little mystery to start off the new year!
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Andrew G. Doe
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« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2013, 02:57:36 PM »

That's undoubtedly Mike on lead on the first track, but the overall feel of the track isn't anything like the 1970/71 era... as for the second one, purely on the aural evidence presented, I'd have to seriously question if the BB had anything to do with it.
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« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2013, 03:01:48 PM »


Somebody please save these!
I would but I'm away from the  PC until tomorrow and I have the feeling they wont last long. .

BTW,  this explains why none of the BB remembered about OITC.

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« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2013, 03:05:00 PM »


BTW,  this explains why none of the BB remembered about OITC.




But there's a version out there with Al on lead.
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« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2013, 03:08:35 PM »


Yes,  but, as far I can recall, they were asked who wrote it and none of them had any idea.

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EgoHanger1966
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« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2013, 04:00:05 PM »

I said this on the Youtube thread, I'll say it here again: some of the instruments on both tracks sound way too synthy and electronic than the technology of 1970 would have allowed. An estimated guess would be that these are 1970-1972 demos that have been polished up within the past twenty years (with little regard to authentic sounds!). If you watch the video, it shows pictures of the front and back of an album of his Beach Boys related demos - googling him or the album turns up very little, however.

Hey, at least we have a fresh topic for discussion!
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« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2013, 04:23:36 PM »

Could it be possible that these tracks have been leaked from the upcoming Made In California box??
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« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2013, 04:27:38 PM »

I agree with EgoHanger that the instruments were probably overdubbed onto the tracks more recently. I gotta say, neither song is really that great at all. Mike's vocal on "Sweet and Bitter" is super rough too. You can tell that these were probably just rough cuts maybe to just get an idea for this guy's songs. I don't really know what they were intended for though. Maybe Spring? There really wasn't any songs written by outside writers for The Beach Boys until like KTSA or the 1985 album. So this is all a bit weird.

But what I will say is cool is the fact that we knew nothing of these til today. Which gives me hope that the compilers for Made In California found a bunch of interesting stuff that we don't even know about, and which we will be able to listen to in a few months. I'm sure there is a lot of material which we have no idea about that is just waiting to be heard.
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« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2013, 04:49:20 PM »

1971-1973 Sessions

1. Intro (That's not me?)
2. In The Country (Out In The Country) **** by the bootleggers
3. Sweet & Bitter
4. Fading Love Song
5. Brian (Chatter)
6. Sweet Rhythm
7. In The Country (Track Only)
bonus
8. Coast to Coast

This is pretty exciting!
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« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2013, 05:02:45 PM »

Could it be possible that these tracks have been leaked from the upcoming Made In California box??

They aren't good enough to be included in the California box (or any unreleased comp like Endless Harmony or Hawthorne) Plus, why would you include a song without one of the Beach Boys doing the lead vocal? I doubt they'd approve it anyway.

Reminds me a little of the alternate countryish "Back Home" material from 1970....
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« Reply #14 on: January 02, 2013, 06:01:29 PM »

The picture of him with Brian at the Hollywood Bowl in 2000 looks more like 1988.
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« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2013, 06:19:49 PM »

The picture of him with Brian at the Hollywood Bowl in 2000 looks more like 1988.

If you check that image of Goldberg in the Country video against his YouTube profile picture they are the same person, shirt and hair are the same - plus the YouTube Profile image from the Hollywood Bowl show in 2000 has the poster date - Sunday, September 24.

The 2000 dates looks to be real .... if that's Goldberg .... or the image isn't doctored.

Assuming Goldberg was - say - early 20's at the time of the recordings in the early 70s then does he look old enough (50'ish) in the 2000 photos?
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« Reply #16 on: January 02, 2013, 06:34:12 PM »

It would be pretty funny if this was an elaborate hoax, but I doubt it.  Whatever the case, Mike's vocal in Sweet and Bitter is amazing! The early 70s is my favorite era for Mike Love vocals.
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« Reply #17 on: January 02, 2013, 06:38:04 PM »

That's undoubtedly Mike on lead on the first track, but the overall feel of the track isn't anything like the 1970/71 era... as for the second one, purely on the aural evidence presented, I'd have to seriously question if the BB had anything to do with it.

According to the video, no Beach Boys are singing on "Out in the Country".
Here are the credits:

Brian Wilson - keyboards & bass
Carl Wilson - guitar
Tandyn Almer - piano & string arr.
David Sandler - backing vocals

Words & music  by Brian Wilson and Don Goldberg.
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« Reply #18 on: January 02, 2013, 06:39:43 PM »

There really wasn't any songs written by outside writers for The Beach Boys until like KTSA or the 1985 album. So this is all a bit weird.

They tried things with other producers/writers, such as Soulful Old Man Sunshine and Seasons In The Sun.
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« Reply #19 on: January 02, 2013, 08:57:31 PM »

Looks pretty legit to me (the reels and tape boxes shown are period-correct, including Desper's favorite Agfa PER-525 - rarely used in the US - and the Scotch 206) ... doesn't quite SOUND legit though ... as noted, this 'sweet and bitter' has surely been more recently mixed and ... 'improved' for a modern (i.e. '80s) sheen in places ... check out that weird 'in the box' drum fill around 1:50!  (what the hell?!? ... sounds like it was recorded in a different dimension compared to the rest of the drums!). The 2nd track sounds more sonically 'right'. Whoever this Goldberg fellow is, he was given the original multi-track masters and kept them all these years. Just goes to show you what's out there. We're lucky if these Youtube clips last a week. Unless Goldberg has some kind of 'work made for hire' agreement (and the paperwork to back it up). They say possession is 9/10 of the law but distribution is a whole other thing.
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« Reply #20 on: January 02, 2013, 09:30:34 PM »

The U.S. copyright office has registrations for both songs. The entry for "Out In The Country" lists Brian as a co-writer and says the song was written in 1972 (though it appears it wasn't registered until 2004). The registration for 'Sweet And Bitter' claims it was created in '71 and also mentions 'Fading Love Song' and 'Sweet Rhythm'. The site is not letting me post direct links to the entries, but if you go to http://cocatalog.loc.gov and do a name search for 'Goldberg Don', it will bring up both songs as well as a few others he's copyrighted.

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« Reply #21 on: January 02, 2013, 10:11:37 PM »

The U.S. copyright office has registrations for both songs. The entry for "Out In The Country" lists Brian as a co-writer and says the song was written in 1972 (though it appears it wasn't registered until 2004). The registration for 'Sweet And Bitter' claims it was created in '71 and also mentions 'Fading Love Song' and 'Sweet Rhythm'. The site is not letting me post direct links to the entries, but if you go to http://cocatalog.loc.gov and do a name search for 'Goldberg Don', it will bring up both songs as well as a few others he's copyrighted.

interesting ...
« Last Edit: January 02, 2013, 10:30:46 PM by DonnyL » Logged

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« Reply #22 on: January 02, 2013, 10:35:37 PM »


Somebody please save these!


 Wink
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« Reply #23 on: January 02, 2013, 10:41:51 PM »

That's undoubtedly Mike on lead on the first track, but the overall feel of the track isn't anything like the 1970/71 era... as for the second one, purely on the aural evidence presented, I'd have to seriously question if the BB had anything to do with it.

According to the video, no Beach Boys are singing on "Out in the Country".
Here are the credits:

Brian Wilson - keyboards & bass
Carl Wilson - guitar
Tandyn Almer - piano & string arr.
David Sandler - backing vocals

Words & music  by Brian Wilson and Don Goldberg.

Ah, so right-ish. Thanks. Smiley
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« Reply #24 on: January 03, 2013, 01:16:59 AM »

Wow nice find Doc Smiley.

Agree with the other posters that parts of Sweet & Bitter sound way to modern for 1970. Although the backing vocals sound very feasibly Sunflower era to me. And that Spectorish marraka or castanet or whatever it is at 0.49 is something they were into at the time, right? San Miguel springs to mind.

Out In The Country sounds completely of its time. Shame the boys apparently aren't singing on that one. I always loved the demo so it's great to hear a more polished version. It reminds me more of a Flame track. I always thought Al wrote it though, no?

Edit: Is anyone able to capture these pronto, as I doubt they'll be up for long?
« Last Edit: January 03, 2013, 01:27:22 AM by buddhahat » Logged

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