Surf's Up without Surf's Up?

[Banana]

You will all have to forgive me if this has been discussed before...but we've all heard about the sequencing struggle over the Surf's Up LP between Dennis and Carl.  Dennis wanted Wouldn't It Be Nice (To Live Again) to follow 'Til I Die to finish off the recording.  If this had happened...was the idea to move Surf's Up in the running order...or would the track simply have not been finished?  If the LP wouldn't have featured Surf's Up...what would they have called it?  Finally, did Dennis pull 4th of July after WIBNTLA was nixed...or was there another reason.  This is an LP that has grown on me over the years...but it definitely is lacking because it does not contain any tracks from Dennis (who was really hitting his stride as a composer). 

[buddhahat]

You will all have to forgive me if this has been discussed before...but we've all heard about the sequencing struggle over the Surf's Up LP between Dennis and Carl.  Dennis wanted Wouldn't It Be Nice (To Live Again) to follow 'Til I Die to finish off the recording.  If this had happened...was the idea to move Surf's Up in the running order...or would the track simply have not been finished?  If the LP wouldn't have featured Surf's Up...what would they have called it?  Finally, did Dennis pull 4th of July after WIBNTLA was nixed...or was there another reason.  This is an LP that has grown on me over the years...but it definitely is lacking because it does not contain any tracks from Dennis (who was really hitting his stride as a composer). 

I'm afraid I can't answer your questions, but personally I'm not a fan of 4th Of July. The only way it could improve the album would be if it replaced Student Demonstration Time. But it wouldn't improve it much.

Sound Of Free on the other hand ...

[Cabinessenceking]

The surf's up album is so close to classic, then usual internal wranglings destroyed what couldve been a stronger early 1970's album by dennis removing 4th of July and WIBNTLA. utterly tragic for the band and their legacy. However 4th is out and hopefully WIBNTLA will be out soon, thus I can remove the awefulness of SDT and Feet, reinstate the DW pieces and pretend nothing ever happened.

[I. Spaceman]

The addition of the Dennis songs would merely make a great album even greater.

[SMiLE Brian]

I wouldn't change a thing about the "Brian suite" at the end of surf's up.

[smilethebeachboysloveyou]

You will all have to forgive me if this has been discussed before...but we've all heard about the sequencing struggle over the Surf's Up LP between Dennis and Carl.  Dennis wanted Wouldn't It Be Nice (To Live Again) to follow 'Til I Die to finish off the recording.  If this had happened...was the idea to move Surf's Up in the running order...or would the track simply have not been finished?  If the LP wouldn't have featured Surf's Up...what would they have called it?  Finally, did Dennis pull 4th of July after WIBNTLA was nixed...or was there another reason.  This is an LP that has grown on me over the years...but it definitely is lacking because it does not contain any tracks from Dennis (who was really hitting his stride as a composer). 

I'm afraid I can't answer your questions, but personally I'm not a fan of 4th Of July. The only way it could improve the album would be if it replaced Student Demonstration Time. But it wouldn't improve it much.

Sound Of Free on the other hand ...

I agree; "4th of July" isn't that great, but a Surf's Up side one ending with "Sound of Free" after "Disney Girls" instead of "Student Demonstration Time" would be amazing.  I'm also not a fan of the "Surf's Up" album version because Carl's lead vocal in the first half ruins it for me.  He has a good voice as always, but the emotion sounds forced, particularly by comparison to the versions that have Brian's lead vocal from around 1966/67.  I'd be inclined to guess that an album ending with "Wouldn't It Be Nice to Live Again" would be an improvement, but it wouldn't have sold as well, and it's difficult to say what the band would have done without the minor commercial comeback that took place with this album.

[Disney Boy (1985)]

You will all have to forgive me if this has been discussed before...but we've all heard about the sequencing struggle over the Surf's Up LP between Dennis and Carl.  Dennis wanted Wouldn't It Be Nice (To Live Again) to follow 'Til I Die to finish off the recording.  If this had happened...was the idea to move Surf's Up in the running order...or would the track simply have not been finished?  If the LP wouldn't have featured Surf's Up...what would they have called it?  Finally, did Dennis pull 4th of July after WIBNTLA was nixed...or was there another reason.  This is an LP that has grown on me over the years...but it definitely is lacking because it does not contain any tracks from Dennis (who was really hitting his stride as a composer). 

I'm afraid I can't answer your questions, but personally I'm not a fan of 4th Of July. The only way it could improve the album would be if it replaced Student Demonstration Time. But it wouldn't improve it much.

Sound Of Free on the other hand ...

I agree; "4th of July" isn't that great, but a Surf's Up side one ending with "Sound of Free" after "Disney Girls" instead of "Student Demonstration Time" would be amazing.  I'm also not a fan of the "Surf's Up" album version because Carl's lead vocal in the first half ruins it for me.  He has a good voice as always, but the emotion sounds forced, particularly by comparison to the versions that have Brian's lead vocal from around 1966/67.  I'd be inclined to guess that an album ending with "Wouldn't It Be Nice to Live Again" would be an improvement, but it wouldn't have sold as well, and it's difficult to say what the band would have done without the minor commercial comeback that took place with this album.

You're all utterly mad! 4th of July is one of Dennis' most truely heartbreaking and beautiful compositions and features one of the most sensitive, stunning vocals Carl ever recorded. It would have enormously improved Surf's Up had it been included and it's a travesty that it wasn't.

[gfac22]

You're all utterly mad! 4th of July is one of Dennis' most truely heartbreaking and beautiful compositions and features one of the most sensitive, stunning vocals Carl ever recorded. It would have enormously improved Surf's Up had it been included and it's a travesty that it wasn't.

  Right on.  The thing is, Surf's Up is like what, 33-34 minutes long?  Both 4th of July and WIBNTLA could have easily fit with room to spare.

[Banana]

It's sad because Dennis was really coming on as a songwriter around this time.  I can see Carl's point about Surf's Up.  They were scrambling for anything that might pique interest...and why not pull out Brian's lost classic?  I would disagree with pulling "Feet" off of the LP...it's got a quirky, fun vibe to it.  SDT would go...and probably Looking at Tomorrow.

[Banana]

You're all utterly mad! 4th of July is one of Dennis' most truely heartbreaking and beautiful compositions and features one of the most sensitive, stunning vocals Carl ever recorded. It would have enormously improved Surf's Up had it been included and it's a travesty that it wasn't.

  Right on.  The thing is, Surf's Up is like what, 33-34 minutes long?  Both 4th of July and WIBNTLA could have easily fit with room to spare.

Good point!

[Peter Reum]

I would add Sound of Free and Wouldn't It Be Nice to Live Again in place of Student Demonstration Time and Take a Load Off Your Feet respectively

[BergenWhitesMoustache]

I wouldn't change a thing about the "Brian suite" at the end of surf's up.

If I could put a block on the word 'suite' on this site, I would.

No offence intended, but it's not a 'suite' it's three songs in a row. Calling it a 'suite' just tacks on some cod classical pretension where there was none.

[FatherOfTheMan Sr101]

3 related brian songs in a row is technically a suite.

[rogerlancelot]

"4th Of July" wasn't finished at the time. The 1993 GV version is an edit including a rough scratch vocal.

"Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again" wasn't finished at the time. I'm not sure what was missing, somebody else here would know.

Of course Surf's Up could have been a better album with some Dennis songs and minus a few non-Wilson songs (just my opinion) but it's fine as it is and I will continue to play it (along with Sunflower on my 2-fer) for many more years without any apologies to those within hearing range.

[phirnis]

I love "Take a Load off Your Feet". Surf's Up sure could've used a Dennis song or two but it's still a fantastic album and I find it kind of interesting that it's probably the only Beach Boys album that doesn't contain one single love song!

[Paulos]

You're all utterly mad! 4th of July is one of Dennis' most truely heartbreaking and beautiful compositions and features one of the most sensitive, stunning vocals Carl ever recorded. It would have enormously improved Surf's Up had it been included and it's a travesty that it wasn't.

  Right on.  The thing is, Surf's Up is like what, 33-34 minutes long?  Both 4th of July and WIBNTLA could have easily fit with room to spare.

Count me in for the 4th Of July love-in, even though Carl's lead is a scratch vocal its still hugely affecting.

[BergenWhitesMoustache]

3 related brian songs in a row is technically a suite.

"Suite (music), a set of musical pieces considered as one composition"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suite_%28music%29


Nope! Honestly, not getting at anyone in particular, but it does boil my piss a little bit. Clever as some of their songs were, prime era Beach Boys were never pretentious, and calling three songs written by the same guy, at different times, that happen to fall one after the other on an album with songs written by a bunch of people, is pretentious. They don't NEED any additional artistic weight added to them, they stand up on their own without tenuous tags being attached to them.

[I. Spaceman]

3 related brian songs in a row is technically a suite.

So I guess any grouping of self-penned songs on an album is a suite. Hey, guys, the A Hard Days's Night album is a suite!!! Who knew? Highway 61 Revisited is a great suite.

[FatherOfTheMan Sr101]

(Actually A Hard Day's Night is a rock opera if listened to that way )

[bgas]

I love "Take a Load off Your Feet". Surf's Up sure could've used a Dennis song or two but it's still a fantastic album and I find it kind of interesting that it's probably the only Beach Boys album that doesn't contain one single love song!

What about Don't Go Near the Water and Student Demonstration Time?  Those are both Love songs! 

[Cabinessenceking]

It's sad because Dennis was really coming on as a songwriter around this time.  I can see Carl's point about Surf's Up.  They were scrambling for anything that might pique interest...and why not pull out Brian's lost classic?  I would disagree with pulling "Feet" off of the LP...it's got a quirky, fun vibe to it.  SDT would go...and probably Looking at Tomorrow.

Since there was more room on the LP, could they gone for 4th, WIBNTLA and Sound Of Free at the expense of SDT (which most agree is the lacking track in question). I don't mind Feet either, and if it could stay then fine by me. Lookin' At Tomorrow is perhaps on it's own not a very solid song, but the mood which it contributes to the album must not be overlooked! It fits so well in there!

[Cabinessenceking]

I love "Take a Load off Your Feet". Surf's Up sure could've used a Dennis song or two but it's still a fantastic album and I find it kind of interesting that it's probably the only Beach Boys album that doesn't contain one single love song!

What about Don't Go Near the Water and Student Demonstration Time?  Those are both Love songs! 

Don't go near water is redeemed by the excellent production even though the lyrics are cheese and the topic slightly silly. 
Didn't people on this board mostly agree on that a few months ago?

[SMiLE Brian]

Its a suite in my opinion because the songs are similar thematically and steal the show at the end of album. The rest of the album is great at showing the other members' songs and talents, but the three songs at the end blow me away with showing the mental and spiritual exhaustion of BW. Its almost like his farewell message to the fans before the darkness of the coming years for him.

[bgas]

Its a suite in my opinion because the songs are similar thematically and steal the show at the end of album. The rest of the album is great at showing the other members' songs and talents, but the three songs at the end blow me away with showing the mental and spiritual exhaustion of BW. Its almost like his farewell message to the fans before the darkness of the coming years for him.

Were you speaking only of A Day In The Life Of A Tree, I MIGHT be able to see your POV; but lumping in Til I Die and Surf's Up completely loses me.
Neither of the two  is anywhere close to exhaustion , but rather they are uplifting songs in every sense
Methinks  you need to re-evaluate your frame of mind, and, perhaps,  get some therapy before you lose yourself in the abyss

[SMiLE Brian]

"Til I Die" uplifting? , Its a song about a guy saying he is small or nothing in the grand scheme of life until he dies. Its a Logical arguement, but depressing as hell considering the heights scaled and acclaim BW got during the glory years.