Was "When I Grow Up (to Be a Man)" the first rock song to use a harpsichord?

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

WIGU(TBAM) isn't even the first Beach Boys song to have harpsichord, I Get Around beat it by some months.

[SMiLE-addict]

^
Really? I never noticed it in that song before.

And now that you mention it, it does appear to be in there, though it's completely buried.

Well then ... maybe I Get Around was the first rock song with a harpichord!

[SMiLE-addict]

I just noticed the Wiki for I Get Around doesn't mention a harpsichord either. Maybe we could mention it in there?

But since it's so buried in this song, it makes me wonder if there were earlier rock songs with a harpsichord, but you just can't notice it. This could be a very difficult thing to track down.

Perhaps guitarfool's advice about mentioning it in the Wiki, but being vague about the claim, would be the best thing to do. And do it for both songs. But as far as I can tell, WIGU is the first song by a rock band to "prominently" feature a harpsichord.

[Quzi]

All of the examples given have been solo artists, so I guess the jury's still out if TBB are the first rock group to use a harpsichord on record. Also, do we know who played the harpsichord on I Get Around?

[halblaineisgood]

.

[SMiLE-addict]

^
According to this, Walking in the Rain was released in November 1964. Can't find out when it was recorded, but given that it was released so late in the year, my guess would be it was recorded after both I Get Around and When I Grow Up.

I can't discern a harpsichord it in, but as noted above, that doesn't mean anything.

EDIT: According to this it was recorded in the summer of 1964. So this could be a close one, if indeed it does contain a harpsichord.

EDIT #2: On this version here I think I can barely hear a harpsichord. Very hard to tell, though.

BTW, until today I don't think I had heard this song in probably 30-40 years!

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

All of the examples given have been solo artists, so I guess the jury's still out if TBB are the first rock group to use a harpsichord on record. Also, do we know who played the harpsichord on I Get Around?

It's an overdub and pretty "poundy" so there's no reason it couldn't be Brian.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Thing is, it's fairly interesting that you are looking at recording dates rather than release dates. I guess "who got there first" is considered to be important. But, I think, perhaps, another question is why lots of pop bands (Beach Boys, Yardbirds, Zombies, Simon & Garfunkel) started using harpsichord seemingly independent of each other around the same time.

[Myk Luhv]

Pop music is like doing science. It doesn't matter if it's not published and no one (or very few) knows of it. (Why do you think people remember Darwin and Wallace is but a footnote?) I think release dates are far more important for that reason: influence.

[SMiLE-addict]

^
I was thinking about that issue, but I presumed that if a song both got recorded *and* released, the recording date would be a little more important, for the following reason: What we *really* would want to know is, who first *thought* of putting a harpsichord into their rock-n-roll song (and then actually did it)? The point in a question like this is one of originality and creativity; if you're the first to do such-and-such in a song, that's a sign of creativity, of trying to expand the scope of a genre of art. Since it's probably impossible to find out who first "thought" of using a harpsichord in a rock song, then the closest surrogate would be (IMO) the recording date. It's not going to be perfect, but it's better than nothing.

Of course if someone thought of doing it, but never actually did it, or never released the song, that indicates a lack of follow-through and, perhaps, doubt about the merits of the idea. In which case, that doesn't "count" IMO. If you think of doing something no one has ever done before, but you don't actually *do it* then - who cares?

[SMiLE-addict]

Thing is, it's fairly interesting that you are looking at recording dates rather than release dates. I guess "who got there first" is considered to be important. But, I think, perhaps, another question is why lots of pop bands (Beach Boys, Yardbirds, Zombies, Simon & Garfunkel) started using harpsichord seemingly independent of each other around the same time.

What I wonder is, how independent were these efforts in actuality? If WIGU was the first song to have a (noticeable) harpsichord, I can't help but wonder if the Yardbirds, for example, heard the song and thought, "Hey, that's a nifty idea," and then did it themselves. Once one person comes up with the idea, others will eventually copy them.

[guitarfool2002]

Obviously the historical fact is that I Get Around has a harpsichord part, and should be noted. However, does the fact that many listeners after hearing the song dozens of times don't realize a harpsichord is on that record affect anything?

Truth be told, if you listen as people did in '64 through a transistor radio speaker (average 1.5-2 inches) on AM radio (narrow frequency range), or on a 45rpm record through a little player, or on anything "normal" (non-professional) listeners would have in '64, you'd barely notice the part. I doubt the Yardbirds or The Zombies or whoever else heard I Get Around and said "That's a smashing idea, a bloody harpsichord on a rock record, let's do it!"...On the other hand, When I Grow Up has it as the featured instrument, a lead instrument prominent in the arrangement and the mix.

This is where historical fact-checking can be frustrating at times. You have cases where a certain recording or session gets labeled as "the first" to feature something or another, only to find the thing it was first at doing was either irrelevant to the song itself, or buried in the mix, or the record had a limited pressing of 2,500 copies around St. Louis and was never widely known...etc.

I have to recommend again wording any encyclopedia/historical entry carefully and doing it in a way that no definite claims are made as to being "the first" on much of anything BB's related, because with the information available in 2012 there are too many who would come at such an entry pointing fingers and the credibility might suffer as a result of one mistaken entry. Such is the nit-picking common to this kind of thing.

[Jon Stebbins]

FYI...

Musicians on these tracks were...

I Get Around – Brian (keyboards), Dennis (drums), Carl (guitars), Al (bass), track is augmented by Hal Blaine (timbales), Ray Pohlman (additional bass), Steve Douglas (saxophone), Jay Migilori (saxophone)

When I Grow Up To Be A Man – Brian (keyboards), Dennis (drums), Carl (guitars), Al (bass)

[SMiLE-addict]

I agree with your approach, guitarfool. However, considering that harpsichord use became fairly common among some rock bands over the subsequent several years, I think it's worth mentioning in the Wiki for those two songs that they were, if not the "first," then "one of the first." Or maybe, "possibly the first."

Here's my first stab at a passage in Wiki for each of the two songs. Y'all let me know what you think.

I Get Around
"I Get Around was possibly the first song by a Rock and Roll band to feature use of a harpsichord. Although not discernible to the casual listener, the keyboard was played by Brian Wilson on the song as a rhythm instrument. The harpsichord can be more easily heard when listening to the instruments-only track of the song."

When I Grow Up (To Be A Man)
"When I Grow Up (To Be A Man) was possibly the first song by a Rock and Roll band to feature a harpsichord as a lead instrument. Although the band had used the instrument several months earlier in I Get Around as a rhythm instrument, When I Grow Up was the band's first song which used a harpsichord as a focal instrument."

Or something like that.

[Jaco]

Let's not forget about the Four Freshmen influence, although they are more close harmony jazz, than pop.
Their use of solo harpsichord ´fills´(only in a few songs, I believe from the mid 50s?) could also have been an influence on Brian.  
I have some of it on LPs but I can't recall the song  titles but when I heard it I immediatly compared it to songs like When I Grow Up.
(Even their song titles influenced Brian: In This Whole Wild World, Imagination, We'll Be Together Again etc)

[SMiLE-addict]

I edited the Wiki for these 2 songs with my passages below, adding an "Arrangement" section to the Wiki page for each. I used this discussion as a reference (have seen internet forum discussions used as Wiki sources before).

I agree with your approach, guitarfool. However, considering that harpsichord use became fairly common among some rock bands over the subsequent several years, I think it's worth mentioning in the Wiki for those two songs that they were, if not the "first," then "one of the first." Or maybe, "possibly the first."

Here's my first stab at a passage in Wiki for each of the two songs. Y'all let me know what you think.

I Get Around
"I Get Around was possibly the first song by a Rock and Roll band to feature use of a harpsichord. Although not discernible to the casual listener, the keyboard was played by Brian Wilson on the song as a rhythm instrument. The harpsichord can be more easily heard when listening to the instruments-only track of the song."

When I Grow Up (To Be A Man)
"When I Grow Up (To Be A Man) was possibly the first song by a Rock and Roll band to feature a harpsichord as a lead instrument. Although the band had used the instrument several months earlier in I Get Around as a rhythm instrument, When I Grow Up was the band's first song which used a harpsichord as a focal instrument."

Or something like that.

[BergenWhitesMoustache]

I think a safe bet would be to word a historical reference to the song carefully and not make the claim of being the "first" to use it on a rock record, because the variables are too shaky. Say something like "When I Grow Up featured a very early use of a harpsichord by a pop/rock group in a non-classical song..." and it's not making a claim that can't be backed up.

Yeah...sweeping claims with umpteen provisos are a pet hate of mine. People without a clue are always banging on about 'Sgt Peppers' being the 'first concept album', which of course is a massive crock, and involves ignoring THOUSANDS of other records...every Christmas lp for a start! Beach Boys party! Any record that has some sort of 'concept' behind it- Open Fire, two guitars by Johnny Mathis, I hear a new world by Joe Meek...there is an endless list!

Anyway, here's a nice bit of harpsichordy baroque and roll by Ron Goodwin from '62 or so.

The Miss Marple theme!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwc1qoZW5kM

[DonnyL]

The Beach Boys, to me, were never really a proper 'rock band'. I think their lineage, while borrowing from 'rock', is more that of a pop group. This can be heard in BW's use of instruments like latin percussion, harpsichord, etc. If you listen to '50s & early '60s non-teenage 'pop' music, you'll hear all of this stuff. I fear that these elements were large contributors to the group being perceived as 'square' in the '60s and '70s. So I guess I just don't see the use of harpsichord to be particularly innovative or noteworthy. You could say Pat Boone was innovative too, because he brought 'Tutti Frutti' to white kids ... you could say BW maybe bridged adult pop with teenage pop or something ...

More interesting and unusual to me is how he combined instruments ... in this case ('When I Grow Up'), the harmonica and harpsichord blending into one strange sound. I remember when I was younger wondering what this magical 'instrument' was.

[SMiLE-addict]

Well either the "editors" at Wikipedia didn't like what I wrote (or the source), or someone else here changed it, because both of the edits I made last night are gone. *shakes head*

Hadn't heard the Miss Marple theme before, but does music from film scores count? Tough one to call.

[Jaco]

More interesting and unusual to me is how he combined instruments ... in this case ('When I Grow Up'), the harmonica and harpsichord blending into one strange sound. I remember when I was younger wondering what this magical 'instrument' was.

And then there's Blondie in the 70's with Denise

Their version has the same brilliant use of harmonica

[sparkydog1725]

How about The Everly Brothers Nancy's Minuet (1963)?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSu6g02Cgyw

[I. Spaceman]

Yeah, I knew there would be some example of a 50's act getting progressive and using one, just couldn't think of an example.

[monicker]

This is obviously not Rock & Roll, but since this thread has turned more into a catalogue of early uses of harpsichord in popular music leading into the '60s Rock era, and songs that Brian could have possibly heard growing up, here's a neat one, Summertime, Summertime by The Jamies, from 1958. Centered around and driven by vocal harmony with a minimal arrangement for harpsichord, upright bass, and percussion. Smile-esque in instrumentation and even in its nod to a past America, in a similar vein to stuff like The Crows. You can almost hear a bit of that Mission Pak sort of sound in the Doo-wop/barbershop vocals. Wonder if Brian was into this song at all. Also, i'm curious if Brian has ever gone on record saying anything about The Chordettes. Anyone know? Gosh, those girls could sing really tight. Anyway, i digress, here's the link for Summertime, Summertime by The Jamies:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeNAgBFmJpM

[SMiLE-addict]

Thanks! I suppose my original question is answered by now. Hadn't heard that version of Summertime, Summertime before - or if I had I'd never noticed the harpsichord.

Also had never heard that Everly Brothers song before.

[SufferingFools]

Prescinding from the question of "first" for a minute, I just wanted to mention I really like the use of the harpsichord in the Monkees' "The Girl I Knew Somewhere."

Link to the alternate version with Nesmith lead vocal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Doibz5eVNmc