20/20 through Holland

[Cabinessenceking]

Three "average" songs on Sunflower: "Tears," "Dierdre" and "At My Window."

Two "above average" songs: "Add Some Music," "Our Sweet Love."

Three "very good" songs: "Forever," "Got to Know the Woman," "It's About Time."

Four "first-rate" songs: "This Whole World," "All I Wanna Do," "CCW," "Slip On Through."

Of course, YMMV. But that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

I said the songs as a whole don't measure up to the best of the earlier material. But that doesn't mean that all the songs are "average."

And production always mattered with the material, at least up through Holland. After that, things did get spotty...but it wasn't just the production that lost its way, the songwriting in the group suffered--when talking about BB LA, keep in mind that Dennis tossed in a couple of songs from his planned solo material to add some needed quality to what is at best an "average" group of tunes. Those who think the songs on BB LA stand up to the top two-thirds of the tracks on Sunflower should probably rethink their position. Smile-addict's point is a lot more on the money regarding the post-Love You material than he is about the 20-20/Holland period.

Tbh the lyrics of 'Our Sweet Love' do not work in my ears.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rH4NH6MW98

when one listens to that fantastic backing track one wonders what could've been made of it so that it would shine properly next to CCW, TWW, SOT and AIWD.
I feel they didnt quite get the lyrics on this. They are hypersaccharine with cheesecake. I don't mind Beach Boys cheese because it really is my favourite cheese, but this one I can't listen to anywhere near as frequently as I listen to the rest (By the rest I exclude Bruce material ^^)

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Select any dozen Top 10 hits from 1967, and then drop Heroes And Villains in the middle. If one can't tell why the single was a relative commercial failure after doing that, I don't know what to say. The single mix is one big muddy flatline. It has the arrangement dynamics of Good Vibrations, but with absolutely none of the sonic punch.

I think Brian's pretty much complete lack of interest in drums and or the beat in general (or at least the traditional trap-kit, R&R version of) didn't help the Beach Boys commercial prospects circa 1967 onward. I agree H&V is the much better song but Strawberry Fields has some killer Ringo action and really kicks in the last section. The Beatles never forgot that the kids like something to bop their heads to, and that makes all the difference, like it or not.

[MBE]

I love how production, mixing and such are always mentioned before the songs when folks praise Sunflower. Very telling.

Well it is the sound of the album that makes it works so nicely as a whole, but there is so much more. First is the singing. They all were vocally at some sort of peak and I include Brian in that very much so. Not every song is a highlight of the catalog, but nothing to me works better as an album and the best songs (the four Dennis, This Whole World, Add Some Music, All I Wanna Do, Cool, Cool, Water) I would rank as being among the best ever. I like it better than Pet Sounds myself. Pet Sounds is more groundbreaking, but Sunflower is more rounded stylistically and I like hearing all The Beach Boys very active. I would rank Surf's Up, So Tough Holland lower than the best earlier albums (imho Surfin USA, Shut Down 2, All Summer Long, Today, Summer Days, Pet Sounds, Wild Honey, Friends, and 20/20 and Sunflower) but they are still darn good. I look at a group as a whole and from 1963-73 you can't touch The Beach Boys.

[BergenWhitesMoustache]

I love how production, mixing and such are always mentioned before the songs when folks praise Sunflower. Very telling.

If what you're driving at is that the production and engineering make a bunch of mediocre songs sound better than they are, then no, it's not telling at all. The songs are uniformly great, the sound is great, the cover is great, it's a fucking masterpiece.

I swear on my life, 15 years into being a Beach Boys obsessive, it had never even occurred to me to question whether say, 'Got to know the woman' was a good song or not. (it is, by the way)

[I. Spaceman]

The songs are uniformly great,

Nope, right there. It is an album with a brilliant coat of production sheen, that manages to distract the listener from the fact that it is another mixed bag of tracks spanning a great period of time, not recorded for the same specific project, a third grab into the same bag of master tapes in order to satisfy Warners, who had rejected the band's own intentions, twice over. If ya'll dig the album's final form, send Lenny Waronker a fan letter, then.
I mean, it is fine you all like that album so much and all, and I am happy for you. But I feel that album is grossly overrated by a certain group of Beach Boys fans (as Abbey Road, another phony production effort disguising lack of group interaction and some very mediocre songs) is by most Beatles fans). And those type of fans are generally the same ones who dislike Love You. I think certain people are more into the type of Beatles-influenced sound and production style they think The Beach Boys should have, than a true artistic picture of the band, and Brian Wilson in particular. This also causes substandard, pandering recent solo efforts by Brian to be overrated. The REAL, messy, strange Brian Wilson and the Beach Boys, that music gets slated, or given guarded praise, on a daily basis on this supposed fan board. One will get less stick praising Carl And The frickin' Passions than if one openly celebrates any of the classic early music.
The same thing goes on at Elvis message boards. His 70's music gets wildly overpraised, and the proponents of it constantly bray about how much more "mature" Elvis was, how "adult" the Vegas arrangements were than the "juvenile" 50's material such as Jailhouse Rock and Hound Dog. What goes on here isn't any different.

[Don Malcolm]

The songs are uniformly great,

Nope, right there. It is an album with a brilliant coat of production sheen, that manages to distract the listener from the fact that it is another mixed bag of tracks spanning a great period of time, not recorded for the same specific project, a third grab into the same bag of master tapes in order to satisfy Warners, who had rejected the band's own intentions, twice over. If ya'll dig the album's final form, send Lenny Waronker a fan letter, then.
I mean, it is fine you all like that album so much and all, and I am happy for you. But I feel that album is grossly overrated by a certain group of Beach Boys fans (as Abbey Road, another phony production effort disguising lack of group interaction and some very mediocre songs) is by most Beatles fans). And those type of fans are generally the same ones who dislike Love You. I think certain people are more into the type of Beatles-influenced sound and production style they think The Beach Boys should have, than a true artistic picture of the band, and Brian Wilson in particular. This also causes substandard, pandering recent solo efforts by Brian to be overrated. The REAL, messy, strange Brian Wilson and the Beach Boys, that music gets slated, or given guarded praise, on a daily basis on this supposed fan board. One will get less stick praising Carl And The frickin' Passions than if one openly celebrates any of the classic early music.
The same thing goes on at Elvis message boards. His 70's music gets wildly overpraised, and the proponents of it constantly bray about how much more "mature" Elvis was, how "adult" the Vegas arrangements were than the "juvenile" 50's material such as Jailhouse Rock and Hound Dog. What goes on here isn't any different.

Sorry, gross over-generalizations all around. The songs are not uniformly great, but there are seven excellent tracks and two solidly enjoyable, melodious and extremely well-arranged songs on Sunflower (ASM and OSL),  with three songs that are competent but average (and which are helped a good bit by the production work).

And I for one am not overly enamored with CATP, my (perhaps) outsized love of "Mess of Help" notwithstanding. I respect the work on CATP as a whole, but I only have real, unbridled love for about half the record. The objections that you raise at the end seem more relevant to those who try to elevate LA and KTSA to a level that's roughly equivalent to CATP and Holland because of one or two good tracks, when it's clear that the BBs were mostly lost and dysfunctional, morbidly circling the wagons and bringing in Bruce (the least of the songwriting talent and a fitful producer at best) to cover for BW's post-Landy swoon.

I also don't think the binary opposition between Sunflower-ites and Love You-ites is really all that accurate. One way to test it out would be for one of our pollsters to start a new one where the two records go head-to-head. Or, better, have them rank the records (0-5 stars). Also, the very intriguing head-to-head track rankings that Time To Get Alone (the poster, not the song!) was doing earlier would be REALLY interesting in this context.

I would also love to see him try to synthesize his list of songs from the two-fers and show what an overall listing would look like. It would be a good starting point for discussion, even if that discussion didn't resolve anything (how could it???).  That's a massive undertaking, however.

And how about a thread for one of the really burning questions left to tackle in BB-land: "Marcella" vs. "I Just Got My Pay"??

[I. Spaceman]

The songs are uniformly great,

Nope, right there. It is an album with a brilliant coat of production sheen, that manages to distract the listener from the fact that it is another mixed bag of tracks spanning a great period of time, not recorded for the same specific project, a third grab into the same bag of master tapes in order to satisfy Warners, who had rejected the band's own intentions, twice over. If ya'll dig the album's final form, send Lenny Waronker a fan letter, then.
I mean, it is fine you all like that album so much and all, and I am happy for you. But I feel that album is grossly overrated by a certain group of Beach Boys fans (as Abbey Road, another phony production effort disguising lack of group interaction and some very mediocre songs) is by most Beatles fans). And those type of fans are generally the same ones who dislike Love You. I think certain people are more into the type of Beatles-influenced sound and production style they think The Beach Boys should have, than a true artistic picture of the band, and Brian Wilson in particular. This also causes substandard, pandering recent solo efforts by Brian to be overrated. The REAL, messy, strange Brian Wilson and the Beach Boys, that music gets slated, or given guarded praise, on a daily basis on this supposed fan board. One will get less stick praising Carl And The frickin' Passions than if one openly celebrates any of the classic early music.
The same thing goes on at Elvis message boards. His 70's music gets wildly overpraised, and the proponents of it constantly bray about how much more "mature" Elvis was, how "adult" the Vegas arrangements were than the "juvenile" 50's material such as Jailhouse Rock and Hound Dog. What goes on here isn't any different.

Sorry, gross over-generalizations all around. The songs are not uniformly great, but there are seven excellent tracks and two solidly enjoyable, melodious and extremely well-arranged songs on Sunflower (ASM and OSL),  with three songs that are competent but average (and which are helped a good bit by the production work). 

You're not the type of fan I was talking about at all, so don't feel generalised about! I agree with you on the margin of excellence on the record, I just do not think it is in the same galaxy as Pet Sounds, it is equal to many fine albums by the band, some of which were made as early as 1963, one as late as this year.
The poll you suggested would be a very interesting one.
I love Marcella and I Just Got My Pay. I wish the latter song and Games Two Could Play were not rejected by Warners.

[Dave Modny]

I love Sunflower and make no apologies in saying that I think it's a crown jewel within the band's catalog. Bought my first copy, used, in the late 70s.

How much do I love it? There was a roughly 12-year period in my life where I think could've quoted every individual musical figure, phrase and cadence of that album from memory and on-the-spot. I had the mix burned into my brain. I eventually had multiple vinyl and tape pressings from multiple countries and would continue to actively seek out as many as I could find at record shows, Goldmine, etc. It probably got to the point where I had the kind of relationship with the record that some Beach Boys fans have with the Smile saga. I wanted to know everything about it. Read everything I could find on the subject (which at the time wasn't a particularly easy task). Correct my own misconceptions over it. Surf's Up (the book) was a good start, but I wanted to know more. Way back when, someone who shall remain nameless and in-the-know was kind enough to send me session/unreleased song info from that '69-'70 era -- also at a time when a person couldn't just do a couple of quick clicks on a website to find these sorts of things. That, in itself, was amazing and precious info to me.

In 1987, I drove from Tampa to Cleveland in a 22-hour straight shot with only a few choice musical selections in the car and a tape of Sunflower (the 1980 CBS/Caribou UK cassette reissue that I picked up a few years earlier in a Gold Circle department store in the budget tape section of all strange places). When my car amp literally went up in smoke just outside of Charlotte NC, and with only 50 bucks left in my pocket, I chose to pull off and go buy a Sony Walkman -- instead of stopping to spend the night in a motel -- just so I could continue to listen to *that* album. It literally propped me up, on endless repeat, for the last 8 hours and home to the finish line. So, bottom line, I obviously really, really liked the album a lot. Still do. Other than "Tears," which never really resonated with me (though I do slightly prefer the unreleased version), I don't personally consider any of the songs on that album to be weak or subpar. But that's just me.


Why does it work for me? Too many reasons to name and many that have already been mentioned here. But, for starters, it's perhaps the most majestic album in the band's catalog. Desper's layered production has a lot to do with that, but the production only enhances everything around it. Due to the innovative way it's mixed, it's the ultimate late 60s/early 70s stereo headphone album for me. Not so much in audiophile terms, but rather, as a damned fun record to listen to; the way things pop in an out of the mix from all directions. As Mike noted, it may also be the high water mark in terms of the band's vocal *quality*. I'm big into vocal textures and timbres, and there's just some great, great singing and arranging on that album. Sort of the culmination of everyone at their youthful peaks. Very aurally satisfying to me. Ten years later...it was a whole different vibe.

I also think it is a fair argument to make that the album, as it stands, wasn't designed as a singular, cohesive statement from the get-go, but that said, I wouldn't change hardly a thing in terms of the tracks that did end up on it. For me, editing and cobbling's all fine and good if editing and cobbling works. In that regard, it only set the tone for the model that would follow for years to come. On the contrary, it's also hard not to to argue that this was perhaps the most prolific era for the band in the studio. And, even though they weren't necessarily designed that way, I always think of 20/20, Sunflower and SU as a three-album arc in terms of quality, sound and style. I guess it's no surprise that those are three of my favorite albums by the band.


Finally, the full and true realization of Dennis as a creative force. Nothing more need be said on that subject.


I give it a 93 on the Dave meter.

[Mike's Beard]

I'd say Sunflower is a near perfect album. The only thing I would change is replacing the somewhat throwaway "Got to Know The Woman" with the far better Dennis composition "San Miguel".

For me, lousy production always seems to stick out much more than great production and engineering. I always register bad production and poor mixing on a record but when it's done well (as in the case with Sunflower) it's much more subliminal to these ears. A well recorded sound is there to serve the song not be the song. When I listen to Sunflower I'm not thinking "What great recording work by Steve Desper" I'm thinking "What great songwriting and singing by the band". I don't consider Sunflower to be a case of style over substance at all.

[I. Spaceman]

Those are some very good defenses there. I guess I am just more of a fan of Brian Wilson's songs, arrangements and productions. Aside from Pacific Ocean Blue, I don't think the work of the other bandmembers, as fine as some of it is, comes near even Brian's secondary work in his peak era.

[Mike's Beard]

I'm more of the opinion that each of the principle bandmembers all managed to match Brian's greatness on at least one occasion (obviously more in the case of Dennis), but none of them managed to be so consistently great as Brian over a sustained period of time.

[TimeToGetAlone]

Well, put me in the camp that adores both Sunflower and Love You.

I have to admit I wouldn't consider the production sheen of Sunflower a negative thing at all.  A great production goes a long way in my books, and as long as it's tasteful it doesn't matter to me whether it's minimalist or polished.  The Beach Boys' catalogue contains an entire spectrum of productions ranging from sublime to not-so-great.  I'd put Sunflower largely in the former.  I can't see All I Wanna Do as anything other than masterful.

I also don't think the binary opposition between Sunflower-ites and Love You-ites is really all that accurate. One way to test it out would be for one of our pollsters to start a new one where the two records go head-to-head. Or, better, have them rank the records (0-5 stars). Also, the very intriguing head-to-head track rankings that Time To Get Alone (the poster, not the song!) was doing earlier would be REALLY interesting in this context.

I would also love to see him try to synthesize his list of songs from the two-fers and show what an overall listing would look like. It would be a good starting point for discussion, even if that discussion didn't resolve anything (how could it???).  That's a massive undertaking, however.

You talked me into a Sunflower vs. Love You ranking...

All I Wanna Do
Forever
This Whole World
Good Time
Slip On Through
I'll Bet He's Nice
The Night Was So Young
Let Us Go On This Way
Roller Skating Child
Deirdre
It's About Time
I Wanna Pick You Up
Let's Put Our Hearts Together
Airplane
Cool, Cool Water
Johnny Carson
Solar System
Add Some Music to Your Day
Got to Know the Woman
Our Sweet Love
Mona
Honkin' Down the Highway
At My Window
Ding Dang
Love is a Woman
Tears in the Morning

As far as an overall listing, I'm not sure if I could possibly do it!  When I'm doing my comparisons some of the decisions are obvious while others I decide on a whim and may regret on the next listen.  What I have been trying to do is to make an ultimate Beach Boys playlist where songs are either in and out.  That way I don't have to decide between two great things and rather organize what I feel reaches a certain echelon.  Even that is quite a task that I haven't quite committed to, but it would kind of demonstrate where my Beach Boys tastes lie.  I imagine a sizable amount of both Sunflower and Love You would make it.

[Sheriff John Stone]

I'm more of the opinion that each of the principle bandmembers all managed to match Brian's greatness on at least one occasion (obviously more in the case of Dennis), but none of them managed to be so consistently great as Brian over a sustained period of time.

That would make an interesting topic, debate, poll, whatever.

IMO, Dennis is the only Beach Boy to match Brian's greatness. I always thought, right up to 1983, that everything Brian did was great. Everything! But, as I look at Dennis' catalogue, almost everything he wrote was great, too. There are very few that aren't. Of course, Dennis doesn't have near the sampling as Brian. Brian has dozens.

I don't think Mike matched Brian on any occasion. Or Al. Maybe Carl with "Heaven" or "Where I Belong" but that's about it. Oddly enough, maybe Bruce traveled in that rarified air with "Disney Girls" and "I Write The Songs". Maybe.

[Bubba Ho-Tep]

This Whole World
Solar System
Airplane
All I Wanna Do
I Wanna Pick You Up
Add Some Music to Your Day
The Night Was So Young
Ill Bet He's Nice
At My Window
Let Us Go On This Way
Our Sweet Love
Roller Skating Child
Johnny Carson
Let's Put Our Hearts Together
Mona
Forever
Cool, Cool Water
Slip On Through
Honkin' Down the Highway
Got to Know the Woman
Love is a Woman
Deirdre
Good Time
Tears in the Morning
Ding Dang
It's About Time

[EgoHanger1966]

Love You tracks bolded.

Deirdre
This Whole World
Forever
The Night Was So Young
All I Wanna Do
Honkin' Down the Highway
Roller Skating Child
Our Sweet Love
Add Some Music to Your Day
Let Us Go On This Way
Mona
Airplane
Good Time
Solar System
Ill Bet He's Nice
At My Window
Slip On Through
Ding Dang
Cool, Cool Water
I Wanna Pick You Up
Got to Know the Woman
Love is a Woman
Johnny Carson
Tears in the Morning
It's About Time
Let's Put Our Hearts Together

[lee]

I love how production, mixing and such are always mentioned before the songs when folks praise Sunflower. Very telling.

You could say the same thing for Pet Sounds. I've read more reviews mentioning the great production work than being an album full of strong songs throughout. A lot of what I read before becoming a fan mentioned the greatness of WIBN and GOK, but not much else. Quite a few people think it's full of a lot of filler. I'm not one of them but I wouldn't say all the songs are equally great.

[Kurosawa]

I'm more of the opinion that each of the principle bandmembers all managed to match Brian's greatness on at least one occasion (obviously more in the case of Dennis), but none of them managed to be so consistently great as Brian over a sustained period of time.

That would make an interesting topic, debate, poll, whatever.

IMO, Dennis is the only Beach Boy to match Brian's greatness. I always thought, right up to 1983, that everything Brian did was great. Everything! But, as I look at Dennis' catalogue, almost everything he wrote was great, too. There are very few that aren't. Of course, Dennis doesn't have near the sampling as Brian. Brian has dozens.

I don't think Mike matched Brian on any occasion. Or Al. Maybe Carl with "Heaven" or "Where I Belong" but that's about it. Oddly enough, maybe Bruce traveled in that rarified air with "Disney Girls" and "I Write The Songs". Maybe.

I don't think Dennis was equipped to do this on a personal level, but I've sometimes thought what could have made things turn out different would have been if he assumed 100% control of the band in Brian's absence and changed their sound and direction to a more R&B/Blue Eyed soul direction like how Michael McDonald changed the Doobie Brothers sound.

[Quzi]

All I Wanna Do
I'll Bet He's Nice
This Whole World
The Night Was So Young
Let Us Go On This Way
Cool, Cool Water
Slip On Through
Roller Skating Child
Good Time
Johnny Carson
Forever
Deirdre
I Wanna Pick You Up
Airplane
It's About Time
At My Window
Solar System
Got to Know the Woman
Honkin' Down the Highway
Add Some Music to Your Day
Mona
Our Sweet Love
Ding Dang
Let's Put Our Hearts Together
Tears in the Morning
Love is a Woman

Roughly. As a cohesive effort, I prefer Love You.

[Tord]

Add Some Music to Your Day
Our Sweet Love
This Whole World
Cool, Cool Water
At My Window
Good Time
Tears in the Morning
Love is a Woman
Forever
Deirdre
Let Us Go On This Way
Honkin' Down the Highway
I Wanna Pick You Up
All I Wanna Do
Johnny Carson
Roller Skating Child
Solar System
Ding Dang
Airplane
Mona
Got to Know the Woman
The Night Was So Young
Ill Bet He's Nice
Let's Put Our Hearts Together
Slip On Through
It's About Time

[Mike's Beard]

I'm more of the opinion that each of the principle bandmembers all managed to match Brian's greatness on at least one occasion (obviously more in the case of Dennis), but none of them managed to be so consistently great as Brian over a sustained period of time.

That would make an interesting topic, debate, poll, whatever.

IMO, Dennis is the only Beach Boy to match Brian's greatness. I always thought, right up to 1983, that everything Brian did was great. Everything! But, as I look at Dennis' catalogue, almost everything he wrote was great, too. There are very few that aren't. Of course, Dennis doesn't have near the sampling as Brian. Brian has dozens.

I don't think Mike matched Brian on any occasion. Or Al. Maybe Carl with "Heaven" or "Where I Belong" but that's about it. Oddly enough, maybe Bruce traveled in that rarified air with "Disney Girls" and "I Write The Songs". Maybe.

Carl. I'd say Long Promised Road, Feel Flows and esp The Trader all hit the same heights as Brian at his absolute peak.
Bruce. Hit the bullseye with Disney Girls.
Al. A tougher sell but I think his version of Cotton Fields is one of the best things the band ever did.
Dennis. Easy. A good half of POB, plus Celebrate The News, Forever, Morning Christmas, Cuddle Up and Sound of Free match the best of Brian.
Mike. Ok so he never managed to write a perfect song all by himself (Big Sur comes very close) but factor in he wrote the bulk of Let The Wind Blow, and classic lyrics such as Do It Again,Fun Fun Fun, Good Vibrations and Darlin' and you can make a strong case for Mike the minor genius.

[SMiLE Brian]

I think Mike could have done more with his writing (as shown with big sur/ let the wind blow) if he didn't get obsessed with reliving past glories. I think thats why I get pissed at him sometimes, he showed promise moving beyond the early stuff, then became a self-parody of himself.

Al had promise as well, but got obessed with Brian's "sail plane song" and wasted so much time remaking it into loop de loop.

[Myk Luhv]

I think "All I Wanna Do", even if it is as much an excellent "production" as it is song, is a solid peak -- and more so than "Big Sur" (either version) which I nevertheless enjoy.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

I'm more of the opinion that each of the principle bandmembers all managed to match Brian's greatness on at least one occasion (obviously more in the case of Dennis), but none of them managed to be so consistently great as Brian over a sustained period of time.

That would make an interesting topic, debate, poll, whatever.

IMO, Dennis is the only Beach Boy to match Brian's greatness. I always thought, right up to 1983, that everything Brian did was great. Everything! But, as I look at Dennis' catalogue, almost everything he wrote was great, too. There are very few that aren't. Of course, Dennis doesn't have near the sampling as Brian. Brian has dozens.

I don't think Mike matched Brian on any occasion. Or Al. Maybe Carl with "Heaven" or "Where I Belong" but that's about it. Oddly enough, maybe Bruce traveled in that rarified air with "Disney Girls" and "I Write The Songs". Maybe.

Carl. I'd say Long Promised Road, Feel Flows and esp The Trader all hit the same heights as Brian at his absolute peak.
Bruce. Hit the bullseye with Disney Girls.
Al. A tougher sell but I think his version of Cotton Fields is one of the best things the band ever did.
Dennis. Easy. A good half of POB, plus Celebrate The News, Forever, Morning Christmas, Cuddle Up and Sound of Free match the best of Brian.
Mike. Ok so he never managed to write a perfect song all by himself (Big Sur comes very close) but factor in he wrote the bulk of Let The Wind Blow, and classic lyrics such as Do It Again,Fun Fun Fun, Good Vibrations and Darlin' and you can make a strong case for Mike the minor genius.

Really? We're talking "Brian at his absolute peak"? I see Brian's absolute peak as being Wouldn't It Be Nice, God Only Knows, Good Vibrations, and Surf's Up. Personally, I don't see Long Promised Road, Feel Flows, and The Trader matching that, as good as they are. Same goes for Disney Girls, as good as that is. I would say that the only thing that comes close, but still doesn't match, is Forever, River Song, Rainbows. The thing is that it is impossible to think of any artists that have achieved a collection as strong as the one I mentioned.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

No one can match Brian at his absolute peak, so I can't see it as a worthwhile pursuit to try and name anyone that has.

One thing that bears mentioning is that Brian had the best musicians at his disposal and THE BEACH BOYS on vocals, and a wealth of talented lyricists, whereas Dennis was basically slouching off stealing time in the studio and writing with just Greg Jakobson or on his own and using either just himself or Beach Boys tour musicians for his tracking and managed a freakin" masterpiece of a solo album. Same with Carl. Long Promised Road and Feel Flows are basically just Carl on everything, right? Pretty impressive....

[Alan Boyd]

This thread is fascinating.... and it rather effectively illustrates something I've long observed about them Beach Boys.

There's an incredible diversity and versatility to this group's catalog that is simply unmatched in popular recorded music, and there are times when this has been both a blessing and a curse.... for the fact is, over the course of the 60s and 70s The Beach Boys did so many kinds of music so well, that they seem to have inspired multiple, divergent - and at times, mutually incompatible - fan bases. 

SURFIN' USA to ALL SUMMER LONG to PET SOUNDS to SMILE to FRIENDS to SUNFLOWER to HOLLAND to THE BEACH BOYS LOVE YOU.... all brilliant in their own way, all very different stylistically, all hitting listeners' hearts and minds and guts in very different ways for very different reasons, but hitting them nonetheless.

It's pretty freakin' amazing.  And, at times, kind of a pain.  Definitely makes compiling a box set a challenge (!)