ObamaCare - Free HealthCare 4 Ever! Hip-hip...hooray!?

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

TRBB, have you every drank a coke in your lifetime?

How old were you when you first had one?

Do you ever drink it now, as an adult?

[Jason]

Besides...the whole "it's a ton of money and advertising genius" argument when it comes to bad behavior is the same bullsh*t that Christian conservatives use for their little "legitimate rape" responses.

What are you talking about?

People blame glitzy ad campaigns for stupid behavior on Black Friday. Christians blame the rape victims for being raped because "they had it coming". It's a VERY similar argument.

[Jason]

TRBB, have you every drank a coke in your lifetime?

How old were you when you first had one?

Do you ever drink it now, as an adult?

I fail to see how this is relevant to this discussion.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Besides...the whole "it's a ton of money and advertising genius" argument when it comes to bad behavior is the same bullsh*t that Christian conservatives use for their little "legitimate rape" responses.

What are you talking about?

People blame glitzy ad campaigns for stupid behavior on Black Friday. Christians blame the rape victims for being raped because "they had it coming". It's a VERY similar argument.

They are two completely different arguments aside from the fact that you used some of the same words. If anything, your argument resembles the Christian argument because you believe we should have no sympathy for those involved in the Black Friday riots are because "they knew what they'd be in for" which is virtually saying "they had it coming." The fact that this is your argument and that now you try and equate my argument with one virtually identical to your own is the definition of absurdity.

[Jason]

People are in possession of at least a low-functioning brain. They have the ability to see propaganda. They're just too stupid to do so.

Once again -- the ego-stroking philosophy of the faux-Libertarian movement. What amuses me most is that TRBB is one of the most indoctrinated posters on this board to the point where he presents websites that disagree with his point of view, believing that they actually agree with his point of view. When you read things through an indoctrinated lens, you begin to see only the things that reinforce your belief system.

If being unconvinced that any initiation of force is somehow beneficial, then yes, I am fully indoctrinated. More power to me for being such.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

People are in possession of at least a low-functioning brain. They have the ability to see propaganda. They're just too stupid to do so.

Once again -- the ego-stroking philosophy of the faux-Libertarian movement. What amuses me most is that TRBB is one of the most indoctrinated posters on this board to the point where he presents websites that disagree with his point of view, believing that they actually agree with his point of view. When you read things through an indoctrinated lens, you begin to see only the things that reinforce your belief system.

If being unconvinced that any initiation of force is somehow beneficial, then yes, I am fully indoctrinated. More power to me for being such.

Well, that's not what we're talking about at all, so I'm not sure why you should bring that up. I myself believe that force bears a heavy burden of proof that can rarely be proven but that's not how you're indoctrinated.

[Jason]

People are in possession of at least a low-functioning brain. They have the ability to see propaganda. They're just too stupid to do so.

Once again -- the ego-stroking philosophy of the faux-Libertarian movement. What amuses me most is that TRBB is one of the most indoctrinated posters on this board to the point where he presents websites that disagree with his point of view, believing that they actually agree with his point of view. When you read things through an indoctrinated lens, you begin to see only the things that reinforce your belief system.

If being unconvinced that any initiation of force is somehow beneficial, then yes, I am fully indoctrinated. More power to me for being such.

Well, that's not what we're talking about at all, so I'm not sure why you should bring that up. I myself believe that force bears a heavy burden of proof that can rarely be proven but that's not how you're indoctrinated.

Then explain your position. How am I indoctrinated?

[Chocolate Shake Man]

People are in possession of at least a low-functioning brain. They have the ability to see propaganda. They're just too stupid to do so.

Once again -- the ego-stroking philosophy of the faux-Libertarian movement. What amuses me most is that TRBB is one of the most indoctrinated posters on this board to the point where he presents websites that disagree with his point of view, believing that they actually agree with his point of view. When you read things through an indoctrinated lens, you begin to see only the things that reinforce your belief system.

If being unconvinced that any initiation of force is somehow beneficial, then yes, I am fully indoctrinated. More power to me for being such.

Well, that's not what we're talking about at all, so I'm not sure why you should bring that up. I myself believe that force bears a heavy burden of proof that can rarely be proven but that's not how you're indoctrinated.

Then explain your position. How am I indoctrinated?

You're indoctrinated by the massive propaganda movement that has erupted since 9/11 to initiate people into the "free market" movement, which by no coincidence has an extraordinary small following outside the United States. It's remarkable, for example, that Ayn Rand is virtually unknown outside of North America where she is a fetishized cult figure and for a good reason - she is part of a major indoctrination program. Other countries don't have those programs which is why Rand's views are understood as sheer lunacy outside of North American borders but are accepted by a number of brainwashed typically middle-class white males.

[Jason]

Besides...the whole "it's a ton of money and advertising genius" argument when it comes to bad behavior is the same bullsh*t that Christian conservatives use for their little "legitimate rape" responses.

What are you talking about?

People blame glitzy ad campaigns for stupid behavior on Black Friday. Christians blame the rape victims for being raped because "they had it coming". It's a VERY similar argument.

They are two completely different arguments aside from the fact that you used some of the same words. If anything, your argument resembles the Christian argument because you believe we should have no sympathy for those involved in the Black Friday riots are because "they knew what they'd be in for" which is virtually saying "they had it coming." The fact that this is your argument and that now you try and equate my argument with one virtually identical to your own is the definition of absurdity.

I don't equate companies that have Black Friday sales with rapists. If you do...I don't really know what to say to that.

[Jason]

People are in possession of at least a low-functioning brain. They have the ability to see propaganda. They're just too stupid to do so.

Once again -- the ego-stroking philosophy of the faux-Libertarian movement. What amuses me most is that TRBB is one of the most indoctrinated posters on this board to the point where he presents websites that disagree with his point of view, believing that they actually agree with his point of view. When you read things through an indoctrinated lens, you begin to see only the things that reinforce your belief system.

If being unconvinced that any initiation of force is somehow beneficial, then yes, I am fully indoctrinated. More power to me for being such.

Well, that's not what we're talking about at all, so I'm not sure why you should bring that up. I myself believe that force bears a heavy burden of proof that can rarely be proven but that's not how you're indoctrinated.

Then explain your position. How am I indoctrinated?

You're indoctrinated by the massive propaganda movement that has erupted since 9/11 to initiate people into the "free market" movement, which by no coincidence has an extraordinary small following outside the United States. It's remarkable, for example, that Ayn Rand is virtually unknown outside of North America where she is a fetishized cult figure and for a good reason - she is part of a major indoctrination program. Other countries don't have those programs which is why Rand's views are understood as sheer lunacy outside of North American borders but are accepted by a number of brainwashed typically middle-class white males.

I actually do not worship at the altar of Ayn Rand. I was never a fan of her writing. I probably would be considered an Objectivist because most of my beliefs fall into that philosophy. I identify as an anarcho-capitalist. That movement existed long before 9/11; it goes back to John Locke and Adam Smith. Classical liberalism.

I do find it ironic that Christian conservatives idolize her, for two big reasons - she was an atheist and she was pro-choice. Both are traits I share with her.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Besides...the whole "it's a ton of money and advertising genius" argument when it comes to bad behavior is the same bullsh*t that Christian conservatives use for their little "legitimate rape" responses.

What are you talking about?

People blame glitzy ad campaigns for stupid behavior on Black Friday. Christians blame the rape victims for being raped because "they had it coming". It's a VERY similar argument.

They are two completely different arguments aside from the fact that you used some of the same words. If anything, your argument resembles the Christian argument because you believe we should have no sympathy for those involved in the Black Friday riots are because "they knew what they'd be in for" which is virtually saying "they had it coming." The fact that this is your argument and that now you try and equate my argument with one virtually identical to your own is the definition of absurdity.

I don't equate companies that have Black Friday sales with rapists. If you do...I don't really know what to say to that.

Since I never did that, I can only accept that as a disgusting rhetorical trick on your part.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

I actually do not worship at the altar of Ayn Rand. I was never a fan of her writing. I probably would be considered an Objectivist because most of my beliefs fall into that philosophy.

You mean the philosophy created by Ayn Rand?

I identify as an anarcho-capitalist. That movement existed long before 9/11; it goes back to John Locke and Adam Smith. Classical liberalism.

Hate to tell you, but neither Locke nor Smith are anarcho-capitalists. I realize that movement existed long before 9/11 but it sure has been since that way more people have been indoctrinated into the cult so that they do things like pretend people who never were part of the cult are part of the cult.

[Dunderhead]

rockandroll, you never responded to my private messages.

[Jason]

Besides...the whole "it's a ton of money and advertising genius" argument when it comes to bad behavior is the same bullsh*t that Christian conservatives use for their little "legitimate rape" responses.

What are you talking about?

People blame glitzy ad campaigns for stupid behavior on Black Friday. Christians blame the rape victims for being raped because "they had it coming". It's a VERY similar argument.

They are two completely different arguments aside from the fact that you used some of the same words. If anything, your argument resembles the Christian argument because you believe we should have no sympathy for those involved in the Black Friday riots are because "they knew what they'd be in for" which is virtually saying "they had it coming." The fact that this is your argument and that now you try and equate my argument with one virtually identical to your own is the definition of absurdity.

I don't equate companies that have Black Friday sales with rapists. If you do...I don't really know what to say to that.

Since I never did that, I can only accept that as a disgusting rhetorical trick on your part.

I never said you did...and I'd hope no one is that insensitive. I'd also hope no one ever equated the two, ever.

[Jason]

I identify as an anarcho-capitalist. That movement existed long before 9/11; it goes back to John Locke and Adam Smith. Classical liberalism.

Hate to tell you, but neither Locke nor Smith are anarcho-capitalists. I realize that movement existed long before 9/11 but it sure has been since that way more people have been indoctrinated into the cult so that they do things like pretend people who never were part of the cult are part of the cult.

I know they're not anarcho-capitalists but they did believe in a much more laissez-faire market than they're credited for. They're on the same level as Thomas Jefferson and James Madison with regards to economics. They were never anarchists like Mises or Rothbard.

[Moon Dawg]

 Quite simply, no one will know the full impact of ObamaCare - negative and positive - until it goes in to full effect starting in 2014. The closest comparison we can make based on empirical evidence (RomneyCare) was certainly not a disaster for the state of Massachusetts.

 No government program is without its flaws. Every government program ever introduced along similar lines (Social Security FDR Medicare/Medicaid LBJ) was greeted as a portent of doom by the Right. My suggestion is that ObamaCare does not have to be static; rather it can be refined over time as needed. 

 As an individual provided with existing health care through my employer, I can tell you that ObamaCare will not have any discernible impact on my coverage.

[Mike's Beard]

Having just watched the Black Friday video I must ask, isn't there Health & Safety laws against cramming that many people into an enclosed space? It MUST be breaking fire regulations if nothing else.

[Mike's Beard]

TRBB, have you every drank a coke in your lifetime?

How old were you when you first had one?

Do you ever drink it now, as an adult?

I fail to see how this is relevant to this discussion.

I think Erik is implying that you drink Coke because you have been brainwashed to do so through massive advertising campains.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Having just watched the Black Friday video I must ask, isn't there Health & Safety laws against cramming that many people into an enclosed space? It MUST be breaking fire regulations if nothing else.

Another thing: that particular video mainly shows unfortunate white trash, latino, african american stereotypes but if you let the video run out, it links you to a clip at a Victoria's Secret shop in a mall that is quite unreal with a bunch of (what appear to be mainly) white, middle class soccer moms behaving like it's the climax of Dawn of The Dead

[Jason]

TRBB, have you every drank a coke in your lifetime?

How old were you when you first had one?

Do you ever drink it now, as an adult?

I fail to see how this is relevant to this discussion.

I think Erik is implying that you drink Coke because you have been brainwashed to do so through massive advertising campains.

Actually, Pepsi is my preferred pop of choice.

[guitarfool2002]

Did someone really try to explain and/or justify the behavior seen at various Black Friday mobs and stampedes across the US by suggesting it was the fault of advertising?

As Jon Lovitz would say: Yep, that's the ticket. Always find someone to blame, that will surely move us forward.

It absolutely boggles the mind trying to understand why some folks - heck, some entire philosophies - go to such lengths to excuse people acting like idiots, committing crimes, or simply disrespecting other people by finding something or someone whom they disagree with to blame for that behavior.

It's easy to go into public, with others, and act civilized. Plenty of shoppers on Friday shopped and came home, without incident or any idiotic behavior. Plenty is too weak of a word - how about millions?

To flip the whole thing around, there were thousands of retail stores across the US where there were NO stampedes, NO push-and-shove matches, and NO cases of idiots and assholes who don't know how to act in public bopping someone over the head for a f***ing phone or television.

Can we then also credit or praise "advertising" for those good shoppers who didn't cause trouble and act like idiots? Or does someone or something else get the credit and praise when those folks acted like normal people who were out shopping for bargains at their local stores?

Since both groups - those pushing and shoving and causing problems and those who shopped politely without incident - saw the same advertising, yet each behaved differently when put into the same situation.

The blame game is getting so f***ing old.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

THANK you.

[Jason]

Can we just blame Bush and get it over with?

Libertarians are sexist Nazi KKK racist jackbooted gun-toting murderous Christian thug rednecks who hate everyone who isn't a white, heterosexual male! Oh, the habitat for humanity!

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Besides...the whole "it's a ton of money and advertising genius" argument when it comes to bad behavior is the same bullsh*t that Christian conservatives use for their little "legitimate rape" responses.

What are you talking about?

People blame glitzy ad campaigns for stupid behavior on Black Friday. Christians blame the rape victims for being raped because "they had it coming". It's a VERY similar argument.

They are two completely different arguments aside from the fact that you used some of the same words. If anything, your argument resembles the Christian argument because you believe we should have no sympathy for those involved in the Black Friday riots are because "they knew what they'd be in for" which is virtually saying "they had it coming." The fact that this is your argument and that now you try and equate my argument with one virtually identical to your own is the definition of absurdity.

I don't equate companies that have Black Friday sales with rapists. If you do...I don't really know what to say to that.

Since I never did that, I can only accept that as a disgusting rhetorical trick on your part.

I never said you did...and I'd hope no one is that insensitive. I'd also hope no one ever equated the two, ever.

Except that you were the one that tried to equate my argument with these "Christian conservatives."

[Chocolate Shake Man]

rockandroll, you never responded to my private messages.

That's true. To be honest, I know next to nothing about the people you mentioned.