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Author Topic: ObamaCare - Free HealthCare 4 Ever! Hip-hip...hooray!?  (Read 32424 times)
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Chocolate Shake Man
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« Reply #25 on: November 24, 2012, 11:22:08 AM »


No one forced them to go there at all hours of the night for silly sales.

Sorry but that doesn't wash at all. Studies routinely show that there is ultimately a lack of free will in the behavioral impulses triggered by advertisements - which is probably why the ad industry is so enormous because it works in effectively creating unnatural desires. See John Bargh's work for a more detailed analysis on this.
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Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again
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« Reply #26 on: November 24, 2012, 11:29:17 AM »

Hey, if people choose to be born and breath in oxygen and utilize synapses and require nourishment and clothing/shelter, I have no sympathy for them, right?  Evil
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Chocolate Shake Man
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« Reply #27 on: November 24, 2012, 11:37:54 AM »

Exactly - and this is what I mean when I suggest that these uses of the term "freedom" from faux-Libertarian movement is nothing other than an arbitrary line in the sand and what's ironic is that it is a definition that has been supplied and made available to them to proliferate on internet sites by corporate America.
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« Reply #28 on: November 24, 2012, 11:49:05 AM »


No one forced them to go there at all hours of the night for silly sales.

Sorry but that doesn't wash at all. Studies routinely show that there is ultimately a lack of free will in the behavioral impulses triggered by advertisements - which is probably why the ad industry is so enormous because it works in effectively creating unnatural desires. See John Bargh's work for a more detailed analysis on this.
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« Reply #29 on: November 24, 2012, 11:52:30 AM »

that quote got screwed up.

In any case, I think that is a load of crap. Maybe it works on weakminded people or the pathologically stupid, but I personally think it's an excuse for people to act like assholes
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Chocolate Shake Man
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« Reply #30 on: November 24, 2012, 11:56:25 AM »

that quote got screwed up.

In any case, I think that is a load of crap. Maybe it works on weakminded people or the pathologically stupid, but I personally think it's an excuse for people to act like assholes

I gave you the name of the author who has done the analysis. Please feel free to explore it, review the testing, do your own testing to explore the flaws, and present your own counter-argument. Until then "that is a load of crap" fails on even the most basic level of a response.
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« Reply #31 on: November 24, 2012, 12:08:03 PM »

Ok, I am going to kill a whole bunch of people, rape somebodys cat, and steal some valuable art, and then blame it on black Friday ads. There is no such thing as free will.

 Or, more likely a majority of the human race is made up of slime, and I happen to be one of the few intelligent beings left. I am typing this on my cellphone at Costco, so I am watching the madness firsthand
« Last Edit: November 24, 2012, 12:11:42 PM by My Little Cthulhu » Logged

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« Reply #32 on: November 24, 2012, 12:11:49 PM »

Ok, I am going to kill a whole bunch of people, rape somebodys cat, and steal some valuable art, and then blame it on black Friday ads. There is no such thing as free will.

 


That wouldn't hold up in court. Stop being ridiculous....
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Chocolate Shake Man
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« Reply #33 on: November 24, 2012, 12:12:37 PM »

Ok, I am going to kill a whole bunch of people, rape somebodys cat, and steal some valuable art, and then blame it on black Friday ads. There is no such thing as free will.

 

So, in other words, you are not actually going to offer a real response. I'm not sure what that has to do with anything. I'm talking about studies that have shown how advertisements directly affect  specific behaviour and create specific desires. A McDonald's commercial isn't meant to create the desire to kill - it creates the desire to use their product, which is exactly what the Black Friday consequences are all about. The scenario you describe has exactly zero to do with that. Like I said, if you want to disagree with the study properly, then review the testing, explore its flaws, do your own study and present a counter-argument. If you can't do that then your objection to the claim is entirely groundless.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2012, 12:13:58 PM by rockandroll » Logged
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« Reply #34 on: November 24, 2012, 12:15:35 PM »

Yeah, that's about right.

If you're free to educate and inform yourself, then others are free to simply make up their minds based on personal/ego perception and leave it at that.

Besides, didn't Kant make some very decisive criticisms of Bargh's work anyway?
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« Reply #35 on: November 24, 2012, 12:19:52 PM »

Ok, I am going to kill a whole bunch of people, rape somebodys cat, and steal some valuable art, and then blame it on black Friday ads. There is no such thing as free will.

 

So, in other words, you are not actually going to offer a real response. I'm not sure what that has to do with anything. I'm talking about studies that have shown how advertisements directly affect  specific behaviour and create specific desires. A McDonald's commercial isn't meant to create the desire to kill - it creates the desire to use their product, which is exactly what the Black Friday consequences are all about. The scenario you describe has exactly zero to do with that. Like I said, if you want to disagree with the study properly, then review the testing, explore its flaws, do your own study and present a counter-argument. If you can't do that then your objection to the claim is entirely groundless.
I am typing this on my phone...when I get home I will be more than happy to give this the response it deserves (I am actually demonstrating this phone to a customer,specifically speech-to-text)
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« Reply #36 on: November 24, 2012, 12:21:34 PM »

Ok, I am going to kill a whole bunch of people, rape somebodys cat, and steal some valuable art, and then blame it on black Friday ads. There is no such thing as free will.

 

So, in other words, you are not actually going to offer a real response. I'm not sure what that has to do with anything. I'm talking about studies that have shown how advertisements directly affect  specific behaviour and create specific desires. A McDonald's commercial isn't meant to create the desire to kill - it creates the desire to use their product, which is exactly what the Black Friday consequences are all about. The scenario you describe has exactly zero to do with that. Like I said, if you want to disagree with the study properly, then review the testing, explore its flaws, do your own study and present a counter-argument. If you can't do that then your objection to the claim is entirely groundless - and ultimately, that will only make you guys happy too since it will reinforce your own belief system that the world is 98% idiots and 2% geniuses (you).
I am typing this on my phone...when I get home I will be more than happy to give this the response it deserves (I am actually demonstrating this phone to a customer,specifically speech-to-text)

Ask the customer if he agrees with me.  Smiley

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Or, more likely a majority of the human race is made up of slime, and I happen to be one of the few intelligent beings left.

Didn't see this until now but it confirms the theory I postulated on the first page that the faux-Libertarian party in the United States mostly functions to stroke people's egos and allows people to construct themselves as superior beings who can see the things that the rest of us idiots can't see (I guess that's why there's a nifty overlap between faux-Libertarians and conspiracy theorists). To be honest, it makes me positively gleeful to see posts like this and the one by TRBB where he discusses "Obama's brain-dead supporters." These things serve only as positive reminders that this movement will never see any real progress or genuine support - which will be fine with you anyway since you can use the world's revulsion at your ego-stroking enterprise to reinforce your belief that the world is made up of 98% idiots and 2% geniuses (you).
« Last Edit: November 24, 2012, 12:32:48 PM by rockandroll » Logged
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« Reply #37 on: November 24, 2012, 12:33:42 PM »

in any case I just don't believe it. I  happen to be exposed to the same advertisements as everyone else. I don't feel the urge to camp out a week early just to buy some stupid bauble. The reason why I don't buy into it is because I see people behave like complete sh*t every day over the stupidest things. The way people behave on the roads, the way they act in a store...this is normal behavior. Normal, stupid behavior. Ego stroking? Hardly. I am watching people throw trash on the floor just so someone else will pick it up, cause it's funny to treat workers like dirt, right? I don't even work for Costco I work for Motorola, yet this still makes me angry. Nobody is watching where they are going and just plowing away into others with their baskets.
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« Reply #38 on: November 24, 2012, 12:37:22 PM »

do you think I like this? wish people were more decent to each other,but they aren't. sh*t... I should shoot a video with this phone to prove my point
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« Reply #39 on: November 24, 2012, 12:38:29 PM »

in any case I just don't believe it. I  happen to be exposed to the same advertisements as everyone else. I don't feel the urge to camp out a week early just to buy some stupid bauble. The reason why I don't buy into it is because I see people behave like complete sh*t every day over the stupidest things. The way people behave on the roads, the way they act in a store...this is normal behavior. Normal, stupid behavior. Ego stroking? Hardly. I am watching people throw trash on the floor just so someone else will pick it up, cause it's funny to treat workers like dirt, right? I don't even work for Costco I work for Motorola, yet this still makes me angry. Nobody is watching where they are going and just plowing away into others with their baskets.

I must agree to a point.... I've worked retail too and anyone who has done so: it will make you take notice of such behaviors to an inflated extent... I mean, retail alone will drive you to view humanity by and large in the lowest way possible.... But you can certainly go to far in assuming things.

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« Reply #40 on: November 24, 2012, 12:52:23 PM »

On the roads as well. people always have to be first. . I should probably make a youtube video carry this phone around shoot footage to prove my point...
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« Reply #41 on: November 24, 2012, 12:53:03 PM »

in any case I just don't believe it.

That's fine - creationists don't believe in evolution, 9/11 conspiracy theorists don't believe in the "official story." The point is that the onus is on you to prove the point wrong.

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I  happen to be exposed to the same advertisements as everyone else.

Advertisements are not targeted towards "everyone" - they are targeted to specific markets and they have direct, material behavioral effects on those markets. The fact that you don't necessarily respond the same way to the same ads is meaningless. You bought into the Gary Johnson ad campaign to the point where you were egregiously misinterpreting youtube videos in an effort prove his point on child labor.
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Chocolate Shake Man
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« Reply #42 on: November 24, 2012, 12:55:42 PM »

do you think I like this? wish people were more decent to each other,but they aren't. sh*t... I should shoot a video with this phone to prove my point

I absolutely believe people behave the way you describe - but it is because their desires are created for them and often whip them up into hysteria. Sometimes ad methods are used to sell wars so that a relatively pacifistic population can suddenly turn rabidly anti-outsider (as has happened in US history) and sometimes ad methods are used to create desire in a product. These methods work and studies show that it is ultimately inaccurate to suggest that this boils down to strength of mind.
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« Reply #43 on: November 24, 2012, 01:00:47 PM »

Of course it boils down to strength of mind and courage of conviction. There was no conclusive proof whatsoever that Afghanistan was behind 9/11. I knew as much then as I do now. The warmongering since 9/11 is the result of one thing and it's not ad campaigns...it's DEMOCRACY. The people wanted war and they got it. Now all of a sudden they don't want it.
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« Reply #44 on: November 24, 2012, 01:07:39 PM »

Of course it boils down to strength of mind and courage of conviction. There was no conclusive proof whatsoever that Afghanistan was behind 9/11. I knew as much then as I do now. The warmongering since 9/11 is the result of one thing and it's not ad campaigns...it's DEMOCRACY. The people wanted war and they got it. Now all of a sudden they don't want it.

Oh, and you think a TON of money and advertizing genius wasn't utilized to sell us the war we supposedly "wanted"?
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Chocolate Shake Man
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« Reply #45 on: November 24, 2012, 01:14:11 PM »

Of course it boils down to strength of mind and courage of conviction.

No, it doesn't. The studies show that advertisments affect "automatic behavior" which means that it is not "under conscious control."

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There was no conclusive proof whatsoever that Afghanistan was behind 9/11. I knew as much then as I do now.

We're going to get into this? I suppose you're right - you know as much now as you did then on this matter, which is nothing. According to the FBI head Robert Mueller, while "investigators believe the idea of the Sept. 11 attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon came from al Qaeda leaders in Afghanistan, the actual plotting was done in Germany, and the financing came through the United Arab Emirates from sources in Afghanistan." So while this not how the mainstream media reports it, it seems fairly certain at this point that there was involvement by Afghanistan. Though the facts as presented above don't justify US reaction, in my opinion.

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The warmongering since 9/11 is the result of one thing and it's not ad campaigns...it's DEMOCRACY. The people wanted war and they got it. Now all of a sudden they don't want it.

What people? The US population didn't believe Hussein had anything to do with 9/11 until after a massive propaganda campaign. That's not democracy.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2015, 09:38:08 PM by Chocolate Shake Man » Logged
Jason
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« Reply #46 on: November 24, 2012, 01:14:35 PM »

People are in possession of at least a low-functioning brain. They have the ability to see propaganda. They're just too stupid to do so.
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« Reply #47 on: November 24, 2012, 01:17:11 PM »

Besides...the whole "it's a ton of money and advertising genius" argument when it comes to bad behavior is the same bullshit that Christian conservatives use for their little "legitimate rape" responses.
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« Reply #48 on: November 24, 2012, 01:17:20 PM »

People are in possession of at least a low-functioning brain. They have the ability to see propaganda. They're just too stupid to do so.

Once again -- the ego-stroking philosophy of the faux-Libertarian movement. What amuses me most is that TRBB is one of the most indoctrinated posters on this board to the point where he presents websites that disagree with his point of view, believing that they actually agree with his point of view. When you read things through an indoctrinated lens, you begin to see only the things that reinforce your belief system.
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« Reply #49 on: November 24, 2012, 01:18:03 PM »

Besides...the whole "it's a ton of money and advertising genius" argument when it comes to bad behavior is the same bullsh*t that Christian conservatives use for their little "legitimate rape" responses.

What are you talking about?
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