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Author Topic: Where is that %^&$@#&* MIC Box Set @#$%^&*(!!!  (Read 210051 times)
William Bowe
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« Reply #575 on: January 24, 2013, 10:06:53 AM »

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Dennis is by common consent the second great songwriter in the band after Brian

No he's not, because Mike Love is the one whose name is on the copyrights to all those hits, and it's his positivity and commercial sense which made the Beach Boys the bankable global brand it is today. Give him some doo. Wrinkles and Oh! Those Girls remain on the cutting room floor - here is a chance for such wrongs to be righted.
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Lowbacca
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« Reply #576 on: January 24, 2013, 10:31:29 AM »

[...] Dennis is by common consent the second great songwriter in the band after Brian [...].
No, he is not.  Brow I love about 97,5% of Denny's stuff (BBs + solo) to death (!), but - as William Bowe already pointed out - it's Mike who was one of the 2 principal songwriters of most of the early/mid-60's stuff that made them popular and receive critical acclaim. Something that has carried on until today/recently. A status quo that allowed Denny to evolve as a songwriter in the first place. He was very much aware of that himself (especially towards Brian), albeit not being a huge fan of Mike most of his life. But I strongly suspect he respected Mike professionally for cranking out all those singles that provided him with tons of dough.

And just in case this is a "quality over quantity" argument: yeah, Denny wrote a number of really great songs - but Mike did, too. I don't know who would want to count Denny's greatest songs against Mike's greatest songs. That'd be ridiculous. Also, the result might suprise.

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drbeachboy
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« Reply #577 on: January 24, 2013, 10:44:50 AM »

I like the 4/4 version better because its got the classic BBs sound. Holland's version (also the album as whole) just seems hollow and pandering to the hippie culture.
This type of talk always amazes me. Being a teenager before and during the time of Holland, the band took tons of heat and was accused of their music being irrelevant. So, they release Holland and it is praised for being relevant for the times, and now 40 years later they are accused of pandering. Man, if ever a band has been pigeon-holed, it is The Beach Boys. Even their own fans cut them no slack.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2013, 10:45:47 AM by drbeachboy » Logged

The Brianista Prayer

Oh Brian
Thou Art In Hawthorne,
Harmonied Be Thy name
Your Kingdom Come,
Your Steak Well Done,
On Stage As It Is In Studio,
Give Us This Day, Our Shortenin' Bread
And Forgive Us Our Bootlegs,
As We Also Have Forgiven Our Wife And Managers,
And Lead Us Not Into Kokomo,
But Deliver Us From Mike Love.
Amen.  ---hypehat
SMiLE Brian
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« Reply #578 on: January 24, 2013, 10:56:25 AM »

I like the 4/4 version better because its got the classic BBs sound. Holland's version (also the album as whole) just seems hollow and pandering to the hippie culture.
This type of talk always amazes me. Being a teenager before and during the time of Holland, the band took tons of heat and was accused of their music being irrelevant. So, they release Holland and it is praised for being relevant for the times, and now 40 years later they are accused of pandering. Man, if ever a band has been pigeon-holed, it is The Beach Boys. Even their own fans cut them no slack.
Just giving my honest opinion, the Surf's up- Holland period is my least favorite. Don't get me wrong, I like certain songs but The BBs just seemed to be following trends at that point on the albums. It was really their live show that carried them back up to endless summer in my opinion.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2013, 11:00:26 AM by SMiLE Brian » Logged

And production aside, I’d so much rather hear a 14 year old David Marks shred some guitar on Chug-a-lug than hear a 51 year old Mike Love sing about bangin some chick in a swimming pool.-rab2591
drbeachboy
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« Reply #579 on: January 24, 2013, 11:08:32 AM »

I like the 4/4 version better because its got the classic BBs sound. Holland's version (also the album as whole) just seems hollow and pandering to the hippie culture.
This type of talk always amazes me. Being a teenager before and during the time of Holland, the band took tons of heat and was accused of their music being irrelevant. So, they release Holland and it is praised for being relevant for the times, and now 40 years later they are accused of pandering. Man, if ever a band has been pigeon-holed, it is The Beach Boys. Even their own fans cut them no slack.
Just giving my honest opinion, the Surf's up- Holland period is my least favorite. Don't get me wrong, I like certain songs but The BBs just seemed to be following trends at that point on the albums. It was really their live show that carried them back up to endless summer in my opinion.
Absolutely, it was their shows, but Warner's signed them to make and sell records. Ten years after their rise to fame, they were past their time as trendsetters. Though they came close a few times, they never did find their niche with the record-buying public after Pet Sounds. They did try a little bit of everything to help find that niche.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2013, 11:10:02 AM by drbeachboy » Logged

The Brianista Prayer

Oh Brian
Thou Art In Hawthorne,
Harmonied Be Thy name
Your Kingdom Come,
Your Steak Well Done,
On Stage As It Is In Studio,
Give Us This Day, Our Shortenin' Bread
And Forgive Us Our Bootlegs,
As We Also Have Forgiven Our Wife And Managers,
And Lead Us Not Into Kokomo,
But Deliver Us From Mike Love.
Amen.  ---hypehat
I. Spaceman
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« Reply #580 on: January 24, 2013, 11:13:32 AM »

I like the 4/4 version better because its got the classic BBs sound. Holland's version (also the album as whole) just seems hollow and pandering to the hippie culture.
This type of talk always amazes me. Being a teenager before and during the time of Holland, the band took tons of heat and was accused of their music being irrelevant. So, they release Holland and it is praised for being relevant for the times, and now 40 years later they are accused of pandering. Man, if ever a band has been pigeon-holed, it is The Beach Boys. Even their own fans cut them no slack.
Just giving my honest opinion, the Surf's up- Holland period is my least favorite. Don't get me wrong, I like certain songs but The BBs just seemed to be following trends at that point on the albums. It was really their live show that carried them back up to endless summer in my opinion.

Really, Surf's Up should have been left as the endpoint of that type of heavy feel, it is a great album. They pursued the same thing on the next two records, and ended up with mixed bags that are draggy and sound more designed to cater to a specific era and audience than any of the surf and car stuff even, in my opinion. But an excellent follow-up to Surf's Up can be gleaned from the best of Passions and Holland. Even so, I think it would suffer in comparison to its predecessor.
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drbeachboy
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« Reply #581 on: January 24, 2013, 11:19:07 AM »

I like the 4/4 version better because its got the classic BBs sound. Holland's version (also the album as whole) just seems hollow and pandering to the hippie culture.
This type of talk always amazes me. Being a teenager before and during the time of Holland, the band took tons of heat and was accused of their music being irrelevant. So, they release Holland and it is praised for being relevant for the times, and now 40 years later they are accused of pandering. Man, if ever a band has been pigeon-holed, it is The Beach Boys. Even their own fans cut them no slack.
Just giving my honest opinion, the Surf's up- Holland period is my least favorite. Don't get me wrong, I like certain songs but The BBs just seemed to be following trends at that point on the albums. It was really their live show that carried them back up to endless summer in my opinion.

Really, Surf's Up should have been left as the endpoint of that type of heavy feel, it is a great album. They pursued the same thing on the next two records, and ended up with mixed bags that are draggy and sound more designed to cater to a specific era and audience than any of the surf and car stuff even, in my opinion. But an excellent follow-up to Surf's Up can be gleaned from the best of Passions and Holland. Even so, I think it would suffer in comparison to its predecessor.
I'm sure if Brian had been in better shape, all of the albums after Sunflower would have been elevated by better material; say 60% Brian's music, and just the very best from the rest.
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The Brianista Prayer

Oh Brian
Thou Art In Hawthorne,
Harmonied Be Thy name
Your Kingdom Come,
Your Steak Well Done,
On Stage As It Is In Studio,
Give Us This Day, Our Shortenin' Bread
And Forgive Us Our Bootlegs,
As We Also Have Forgiven Our Wife And Managers,
And Lead Us Not Into Kokomo,
But Deliver Us From Mike Love.
Amen.  ---hypehat
SMiLE Brian
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« Reply #582 on: January 24, 2013, 11:26:08 AM »

I like the 4/4 version better because its got the classic BBs sound. Holland's version (also the album as whole) just seems hollow and pandering to the hippie culture.
This type of talk always amazes me. Being a teenager before and during the time of Holland, the band took tons of heat and was accused of their music being irrelevant. So, they release Holland and it is praised for being relevant for the times, and now 40 years later they are accused of pandering. Man, if ever a band has been pigeon-holed, it is The Beach Boys. Even their own fans cut them no slack.
Just giving my honest opinion, the Surf's up- Holland period is my least favorite. Don't get me wrong, I like certain songs but The BBs just seemed to be following trends at that point on the albums. It was really their live show that carried them back up to endless summer in my opinion.

Really, Surf's Up should have been left as the endpoint of that type of heavy feel, it is a great album. They pursued the same thing on the next two records, and ended up with mixed bags that are draggy and sound more designed to cater to a specific era and audience than any of the surf and car stuff even, in my opinion. But an excellent follow-up to Surf's Up can be gleaned from the best of Passions and Holland. Even so, I think it would suffer in comparison to its predecessor.
I wonder what Brian would have done if he was in a better place, his "Spring" material along with the limited work he did on the BBs albums of the time hint at a BBs sound that never came to be. I know some people say his material points to "love you" but I still wonder what ideas he had going on.
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And production aside, I’d so much rather hear a 14 year old David Marks shred some guitar on Chug-a-lug than hear a 51 year old Mike Love sing about bangin some chick in a swimming pool.-rab2591
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« Reply #583 on: January 24, 2013, 11:40:21 AM »

I like the 4/4 version better because its got the classic BBs sound. Holland's version (also the album as whole) just seems hollow and pandering to the hippie culture.
This type of talk always amazes me. Being a teenager before and during the time of Holland, the band took tons of heat and was accused of their music being irrelevant. So, they release Holland and it is praised for being relevant for the times, and now 40 years later they are accused of pandering. Man, if ever a band has been pigeon-holed, it is The Beach Boys. Even their own fans cut them no slack.
Just giving my honest opinion, the Surf's up- Holland period is my least favorite. Don't get me wrong, I like certain songs but The BBs just seemed to be following trends at that point on the albums. It was really their live show that carried them back up to endless summer in my opinion.

Really, Surf's Up should have been left as the endpoint of that type of heavy feel, it is a great album. They pursued the same thing on the next two records, and ended up with mixed bags that are draggy and sound more designed to cater to a specific era and audience than any of the surf and car stuff even, in my opinion. But an excellent follow-up to Surf's Up can be gleaned from the best of Passions and Holland. Even so, I think it would suffer in comparison to its predecessor.
I'm sure if Brian had been in better shape, all of the albums after Sunflower would have been elevated by better material; say 60% Brian's music, and just the very best from the rest.

Maybe, but I like Surf's Up more than Sunflower, and think Brian's material on it is better, save All I Wanna Do. It is more a problem of musical direction than who wrote the songs for me, in this era.
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« Reply #584 on: January 24, 2013, 11:42:54 AM »

I like the 4/4 version better because its got the classic BBs sound. Holland's version (also the album as whole) just seems hollow and pandering to the hippie culture.
This type of talk always amazes me. Being a teenager before and during the time of Holland, the band took tons of heat and was accused of their music being irrelevant. So, they release Holland and it is praised for being relevant for the times, and now 40 years later they are accused of pandering. Man, if ever a band has been pigeon-holed, it is The Beach Boys. Even their own fans cut them no slack.
Just giving my honest opinion, the Surf's up- Holland period is my least favorite. Don't get me wrong, I like certain songs but The BBs just seemed to be following trends at that point on the albums. It was really their live show that carried them back up to endless summer in my opinion.

Really, Surf's Up should have been left as the endpoint of that type of heavy feel, it is a great album. They pursued the same thing on the next two records, and ended up with mixed bags that are draggy and sound more designed to cater to a specific era and audience than any of the surf and car stuff even, in my opinion. But an excellent follow-up to Surf's Up can be gleaned from the best of Passions and Holland. Even so, I think it would suffer in comparison to its predecessor.
I wonder what Brian would have done if he was in a better place, his "Spring" material along with the limited work he did on the BBs albums of the time hint at a BBs sound that never came to be. I know some people say his material points to "love you" but I still wonder what ideas he had going on.

I think Brian would have done material influenced by other folks, as the Spring album is influenced by Carole King and The Carpenters, Mont Vernon is influenced by Nilsson's The Point, etc. He just wasn't leading the pack any more. And that's fine. He blazed enough trails in the 60's, and his trademark sound of the 60's had a huge influence on the soft-rock movement of the 70's.
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drbeachboy
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« Reply #585 on: January 24, 2013, 11:45:08 AM »

I like the 4/4 version better because its got the classic BBs sound. Holland's version (also the album as whole) just seems hollow and pandering to the hippie culture.
This type of talk always amazes me. Being a teenager before and during the time of Holland, the band took tons of heat and was accused of their music being irrelevant. So, they release Holland and it is praised for being relevant for the times, and now 40 years later they are accused of pandering. Man, if ever a band has been pigeon-holed, it is The Beach Boys. Even their own fans cut them no slack.
Just giving my honest opinion, the Surf's up- Holland period is my least favorite. Don't get me wrong, I like certain songs but The BBs just seemed to be following trends at that point on the albums. It was really their live show that carried them back up to endless summer in my opinion.

Really, Surf's Up should have been left as the endpoint of that type of heavy feel, it is a great album. They pursued the same thing on the next two records, and ended up with mixed bags that are draggy and sound more designed to cater to a specific era and audience than any of the surf and car stuff even, in my opinion. But an excellent follow-up to Surf's Up can be gleaned from the best of Passions and Holland. Even so, I think it would suffer in comparison to its predecessor.
I'm sure if Brian had been in better shape, all of the albums after Sunflower would have been elevated by better material; say 60% Brian's music, and just the very best from the rest.

Maybe, but I like Surf's Up more than Sunflower, and think Brian's material on it is better, save All I Wanna Do. It is more a problem of musical direction than who wrote the songs for me, in this era.
With maybe the exception of 20/20, Brian and his music was The Beach Boys' musical direction. As Brian lost his way, so did the band and it's musical focus.
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The Brianista Prayer

Oh Brian
Thou Art In Hawthorne,
Harmonied Be Thy name
Your Kingdom Come,
Your Steak Well Done,
On Stage As It Is In Studio,
Give Us This Day, Our Shortenin' Bread
And Forgive Us Our Bootlegs,
As We Also Have Forgiven Our Wife And Managers,
And Lead Us Not Into Kokomo,
But Deliver Us From Mike Love.
Amen.  ---hypehat
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« Reply #586 on: January 24, 2013, 11:52:41 AM »

I like the 4/4 version better because its got the classic BBs sound. Holland's version (also the album as whole) just seems hollow and pandering to the hippie culture.
This type of talk always amazes me. Being a teenager before and during the time of Holland, the band took tons of heat and was accused of their music being irrelevant. So, they release Holland and it is praised for being relevant for the times, and now 40 years later they are accused of pandering. Man, if ever a band has been pigeon-holed, it is The Beach Boys. Even their own fans cut them no slack.
Just giving my honest opinion, the Surf's up- Holland period is my least favorite. Don't get me wrong, I like certain songs but The BBs just seemed to be following trends at that point on the albums. It was really their live show that carried them back up to endless summer in my opinion.

Really, Surf's Up should have been left as the endpoint of that type of heavy feel, it is a great album. They pursued the same thing on the next two records, and ended up with mixed bags that are draggy and sound more designed to cater to a specific era and audience than any of the surf and car stuff even, in my opinion. But an excellent follow-up to Surf's Up can be gleaned from the best of Passions and Holland. Even so, I think it would suffer in comparison to its predecessor.
I wonder what Brian would have done if he was in a better place, his "Spring" material along with the limited work he did on the BBs albums of the time hint at a BBs sound that never came to be. I know some people say his material points to "love you" but I still wonder what ideas he had going on.

I think Brian would have done material influenced by other folks, as the Spring album is influenced by Carole King and The Carpenters, Mont Vernon is influenced by Nilsson's The Point, etc. He just wasn't leading the pack any more. And that's fine. He blazed enough trails in the 60's, and his trademark sound of the 60's had a huge influence on the soft-rock movement of the 70's.
I can totally see that, its a testament to his success he could basically retire at age 25 from the music industry. His mental decline robbed him of that happy life in retirement though. The 15 big ones- love you era has a undertone of "I have given you guys so much success, what else do you want from me?" in my opinion.
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« Reply #587 on: January 24, 2013, 11:55:59 AM »

With maybe the exception of 20/20, Brian and his music was The Beach Boys' musical direction. As Brian lost his way, so did the band and it's musical focus.

He blazed an easy-to-follow trail for the band, in terms of a sound, tho not necessarily compositional flair. The problem was the progressive musical climate of the era, and then the surface, godawful musical climate of the 80's. I need no lessons on the importance of Brian to The Beach Boys, believe me. Thanks, tho.
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« Reply #588 on: January 24, 2013, 11:56:58 AM »


I can totally see that, its a testament to his success he could basically retire at age 25 from the music industry. His mental decline robbed him of that happy life in retirement though. The 15 big ones- love you era has a undertone of "I have given you guys so much success, what else do you want from me?" in my opinion.

15 Big Ones has that. Love You is more of a "you asked for it, here it is!" vibe.
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« Reply #589 on: January 24, 2013, 12:05:36 PM »

That as well, the lyrics on some love you songs like "roller skating child" are Brian's warped vision of the early songs after learning the lessons of "endless summer". The backing tracks are truly amazing on love you and show Brian back doing what he did best. The resulting combo is one of my favorite BBs albums.
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And production aside, I’d so much rather hear a 14 year old David Marks shred some guitar on Chug-a-lug than hear a 51 year old Mike Love sing about bangin some chick in a swimming pool.-rab2591
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« Reply #590 on: January 24, 2013, 06:50:09 PM »

I like the 4/4 version better because its got the classic BBs sound. Holland's version (also the album as whole) just seems hollow and pandering to the hippie culture.
This type of talk always amazes me. Being a teenager before and during the time of Holland, the band took tons of heat and was accused of their music being irrelevant. So, they release Holland and it is praised for being relevant for the times, and now 40 years later they are accused of pandering. Man, if ever a band has been pigeon-holed, it is The Beach Boys. Even their own fans cut them no slack.
Just giving my honest opinion, the Surf's up- Holland period is my least favorite. Don't get me wrong, I like certain songs but The BBs just seemed to be following trends at that point on the albums. It was really their live show that carried them back up to endless summer in my opinion.

Really, Surf's Up should have been left as the endpoint of that type of heavy feel, it is a great album. They pursued the same thing on the next two records, and ended up with mixed bags that are draggy and sound more designed to cater to a specific era and audience than any of the surf and car stuff even, in my opinion. But an excellent follow-up to Surf's Up can be gleaned from the best of Passions and Holland. Even so, I think it would suffer in comparison to its predecessor.
I'm sure if Brian had been in better shape, all of the albums after Sunflower would have been elevated by better material; say 60% Brian's music, and just the very best from the rest.

Maybe, but I like Surf's Up more than Sunflower, and think Brian's material on it is better, save All I Wanna Do. It is more a problem of musical direction than who wrote the songs for me, in this era.

If they used all current BW material, Sunflower would have come off something like an early '70s version of Friends, and Surfs Up would have been a spooky version of that.

I don't think there was a real shortage of material, the label and group just didn't really find it acceptable. That's been the problem ever since, including the mid-'90s fiasco. That's why they put that weird 'apology' note in Love You.

And Brian has not been 'allowed' to produce a Beach Boys album ever since, including this 'God Made the Radio' $hit. Brian Wilson, left to his own devices, does not create conventional commercial music ... or rather, has not since 1966.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2013, 06:56:44 PM by DonnyL » Logged

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« Reply #591 on: January 24, 2013, 07:01:58 PM »

I like the 4/4 version better because its got the classic BBs sound. Holland's version (also the album as whole) just seems hollow and pandering to the hippie culture.
This type of talk always amazes me. Being a teenager before and during the time of Holland, the band took tons of heat and was accused of their music being irrelevant. So, they release Holland and it is praised for being relevant for the times, and now 40 years later they are accused of pandering. Man, if ever a band has been pigeon-holed, it is The Beach Boys. Even their own fans cut them no slack.
Just giving my honest opinion, the Surf's up- Holland period is my least favorite. Don't get me wrong, I like certain songs but The BBs just seemed to be following trends at that point on the albums. It was really their live show that carried them back up to endless summer in my opinion.

Really, Surf's Up should have been left as the endpoint of that type of heavy feel, it is a great album. They pursued the same thing on the next two records, and ended up with mixed bags that are draggy and sound more designed to cater to a specific era and audience than any of the surf and car stuff even, in my opinion. But an excellent follow-up to Surf's Up can be gleaned from the best of Passions and Holland. Even so, I think it would suffer in comparison to its predecessor.
I'm sure if Brian had been in better shape, all of the albums after Sunflower would have been elevated by better material; say 60% Brian's music, and just the very best from the rest.

Maybe, but I like Surf's Up more than Sunflower, and think Brian's material on it is better, save All I Wanna Do. It is more a problem of musical direction than who wrote the songs for me, in this era.

If they used all current BW material, Sunflower would have come off something like an early '70s version of Friends, and Surfs Up would have been a spooky version of that.

I don't think there was a real shortage of material, the label and group just didn't really find it acceptable. That's been the problem ever since, including the mid-'90s fiasco. That's why they put that weird 'apology' note in Love You.

And Brian has not been 'allowed' to produce a Beach Boys album ever since, including this 'God Made the Radio' $hit. Brian Wilson, left to his own devices, does not create conventional commercial music ... or rather, has not since 1966.

Great post.
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« Reply #592 on: January 24, 2013, 07:29:08 PM »


I don't think there was a real shortage of material, the label and group just didn't really find it acceptable. That's been the problem ever since, including the mid-'90s fiasco. That's why they put that weird 'apology' note in Love You.


Are you referring to the note labeled "To Brian whom we love with all our hearts"? 
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« Reply #593 on: January 24, 2013, 09:54:55 PM »

I like the 4/4 version better because its got the classic BBs sound. Holland's version (also the album as whole) just seems hollow and pandering to the hippie culture.
This type of talk always amazes me. Being a teenager before and during the time of Holland, the band took tons of heat and was accused of their music being irrelevant. So, they release Holland and it is praised for being relevant for the times, and now 40 years later they are accused of pandering. Man, if ever a band has been pigeon-holed, it is The Beach Boys. Even their own fans cut them no slack.
Just giving my honest opinion, the Surf's up- Holland period is my least favorite. Don't get me wrong, I like certain songs but The BBs just seemed to be following trends at that point on the albums. It was really their live show that carried them back up to endless summer in my opinion.

Really, Surf's Up should have been left as the endpoint of that type of heavy feel, it is a great album. They pursued the same thing on the next two records, and ended up with mixed bags that are draggy and sound more designed to cater to a specific era and audience than any of the surf and car stuff even, in my opinion. But an excellent follow-up to Surf's Up can be gleaned from the best of Passions and Holland. Even so, I think it would suffer in comparison to its predecessor.
I'm sure if Brian had been in better shape, all of the albums after Sunflower would have been elevated by better material; say 60% Brian's music, and just the very best from the rest.

Maybe, but I like Surf's Up more than Sunflower, and think Brian's material on it is better, save All I Wanna Do. It is more a problem of musical direction than who wrote the songs for me, in this era.

If they used all current BW material, Sunflower would have come off something like an early '70s version of Friends, and Surfs Up would have been a spooky version of that.

I don't think there was a real shortage of material, the label and group just didn't really find it acceptable. That's been the problem ever since, including the mid-'90s fiasco. That's why they put that weird 'apology' note in Love You.

And Brian has not been 'allowed' to produce a Beach Boys album ever since, including this 'God Made the Radio' $hit. Brian Wilson, left to his own devices, does not create conventional commercial music ... or rather, has not since 1966.

I agree to an extent.

I feel that you're kinda romanticizing the whole  "Brian is a tortured genius who The Beach Boys wanted to creatively stifle" thing. From what I've read 'round these parts from those in the know, there is a reason that Brian always needs a co-producer even since, well...SMiLE - he's not really up to producing stuff on his own, and he needs some help. Which ultimately means, yes, the songs he brings to the table will be filtered through a different lens then if it was just "Brian" production.

And I know  that you don't wanna believe it, but it seems like That's Why God Made The Radio really is what Brian wanted to do. From what info I've seen since the project became public, it seems like Brian conceived of the project, wrote most of the songs for said project, and even decided which songs they would work on in the studio. It's not the "crazed genius knocking off awesome moog slathered songs in a bathrobe" type of deal, but hey, all signs point to the album being what he wanted, and in the case of the suite at the end up the album, it apparently wasn't totally to Mike Love's taste, but it still stayed on the album.

As far as the fact that he doesn't create "conventional commercial music"? Well, in my opinion, songs like "Good Timin'" and "It's OK" are super commercial in my opinion, and charted well to boot. And even besides two hits like those, a large slice of the stuff Brian has done the past few decades is commercial sounding. Honestly, it's his voice wish kinda made a lot of this stuff a harder sell commercially.
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DonnyL
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« Reply #594 on: January 24, 2013, 10:00:38 PM »


Great post.

thanks !
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DonnyL
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« Reply #595 on: January 24, 2013, 10:00:50 PM »


I don't think there was a real shortage of material, the label and group just didn't really find it acceptable. That's been the problem ever since, including the mid-'90s fiasco. That's why they put that weird 'apology' note in Love You.


Are you referring to the note labeled "To Brian whom we love with all our hearts"? 

yes
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DonnyL
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« Reply #596 on: January 24, 2013, 10:19:01 PM »

I feel that you're kinda romanticizing the whole  "Brian is a tortured genius who The Beach Boys wanted to creatively stifle" thing.

Not really.

he's not really up to producing stuff on his own, and he needs some help. Which ultimately means, yes, the songs he brings to the table will be filtered through a different lens then if it was just "Brian" production.

This is the problem. What Brian considers 'done' or produced properly is not 'acceptable' by whoever it may be at the time. Kind of how people say Wild Honey, Love You and the Paley stuff sound like 'demos'. Or that 'demo' version of 'Everything I Need', which was transformed into something 'releasable' by Joe Thomas. Read the stories about that session. Hal Blaine got super pissed off about it. It's clear that BW was in control, they got a cool sound, like old times, etc. etc. Then Thomas comes in and takes control and the final product sounds ... like Imagination, Stars & Stripes and God Made the Radio !

And I know  that you don't wanna believe it, but it seems like That's Why God Made The Radio really is what Brian wanted to do.

Sure, it's totally what he wanted to do. But that doesn't mean he produced it. What was Joe Thomas' credit? Some made-up term that has never been used before. I can just hear Brian calling the shots in the control room ("Hey, no I need the vocals to be more robotic! What do you mean the autotune is already all the way up?!? Yeh remember that '80s guy that played on Imagination? Can we bring him in here for some smokin' leads?!? I want this to sound like a generic TV soundtrack from the '90s, only with a modern digital edge! No, I don't want to include any songs unless this guy I haven't worked with in 15 years is on the credits. Wait a second, is that Jon Bon Jovi?!? How did he get in here?!? I've got this song that I'd like him to add some lyrics to, it's kind of like my own version of 'My Way'!") while the 'Recorder' stands by and presses buttons.

As far as the fact that he doesn't create "conventional commercial music"? Well, in my opinion, songs like "Good Timin'" and "It's OK" are super commercial in my opinion, and charted well to boot. And even besides two hits like those, a large slice of the stuff Brian has done the past few decades is commercial sounding. Honestly, it's his voice wish kinda made a lot of this stuff a harder sell commercially.

Yeh you're right, I do think those songs are fairly commercial. 'It's OK' may very well be his last really commercial final released record. But even that one is kind of ragged by mid-'70s standards, and was probably only a minor hit on the tails of Endless Summer and the media thing happening at the time. And 'Good Timin' is dolled up pretty good by Bruce and James Guercio.

What I'm saying here is a song like 'Hey Little Tomboy' on Adult Child is what Brian Wilson would consider a finished production for that song. And the MIU version is the one that is released because the other is 'unreleasable'. The first trick they tried with the 'Producer' credit was MIU actually ... how exactly did Brian 'Executive Produce' that one? I'll bet there are a handful of mixes on that record he never even listened to.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2013, 10:31:30 PM by DonnyL » Logged

Myk Luhv
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« Reply #597 on: January 24, 2013, 10:29:48 PM »

I seriously want an album full of stuff like "Message Man" and "Just Like You And Me", if those are indeed indicative of an unmediated, contemporary Brian Wilson production.
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« Reply #598 on: January 24, 2013, 11:01:32 PM »

I know Bryan wrote the lyrics for the second song... I think for the first as well. Also its OK and good timing were written in 1974, so in your scenario Donny that makes it worse. that said I love the new album to pieces. I don't care what anyone says I still love it!
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« Reply #599 on: January 24, 2013, 11:32:29 PM »

I think Brian is keener to have hit albums than anyone else so would be the last person who would want to release uncommercial music.
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