Brian and Dennis's late '70s vocals

[Sheriff John Stone]

Again, other than diehards, I can't think of many people listening to Brian's tag on "Had To Phone Ya", Dennis on "In The Still Of The Night", Brian's off-key singing on "Just Once In My Life", Dennis on "Mona", Brian on "Solar System", "Let's Put Our Hearts Together", and "Love Is A Woman" - and say that those are good vocals.

To some extent but not as much, and maybe it's because of the poor production, you have to be a real fan of Dennis to say his vocals on "Angel Come Home" and Love Surrounds Me" are excellent. If it was Dennis Smith instead of Dennis Wilson, would you feel the same way?

[Custom Machine]

Again, other than diehards, I can't think of many people listening to Brian's tag on "Had To Phone Ya", Dennis on "In The Still Of The Night", Brian's off-key singing on "Just Once In My Life", Dennis on "Mona", Brian on "Solar System", "Let's Put Our Hearts Together", and "Love Is A Woman" - and say that those are good vocals.

To some extent but not as much, and maybe it's because of the poor production, you have to be a real fan of Dennis to say his vocals on "Angel Come Home" and Love Surrounds Me" are excellent. If it was Dennis Smith instead of Dennis Wilson, would you feel the same way?

Don't enjoy Brian's singing voice on any of his vocals you mention above, but I really like Dennis' leads on In the Still of the Night, Mona, and Angel Come Home.

[Manchini]

I think it's denying fans some credit to imply that we're being disingenuous in our enjoyment of Brian and Dennis' vocals during that era, whether it's a result of their destructive lifestyles or not. Whatever caused Brian's voice to degenerate (and we can certainly define the cause, of course, it's been sufficiently discussed) is the same thing that caused his mind to veer in certain directions that inspired his songwriting at the time. His frustrations and indulgences as he led that lifestyle were catalysts to ideas that reflected his neuroses, distresses, what have you -- ranging from quirky to tragic: "Roller Skating Child," "It's Over Now," "Lines" ... you could go on and on. If, instead of getting into drugs and excessive eating and sleeping, Brian had gotten into drinking coconut water and reading lots of books and playing tennis, he probably would've written in a much different vein and methodology. And I would probably like them, but I might not because I really wouldn't want to have anything else except the all around directness of his music during that era. But, uh... Haha, I sort of lost my point after I started imagining the kind of lyrical ideas and arrangements his songs would have if he was just into drinking coconut water and reading a variety of books and playing tennis.

[ArtVandalay]

Dennis' vocal on Mona is fantastic. My favorite song on Love You.

[Jim V.]

I think it's denying fans some credit to imply that we're being disingenuous in our enjoyment of Brian and Dennis' vocals during that era, whether it's a result of their destructive lifestyles or not. Whatever caused Brian's voice to degenerate (and we can certainly define the cause, of course, it's been sufficiently discussed) is the same thing that caused his mind to veer in certain directions that inspired his songwriting at the time. His frustrations and indulgences as he led that lifestyle were catalysts to ideas that reflected his neuroses, distresses, what have you -- ranging from quirky to tragic: "Roller Skating Child," "It's Over Now," "Lines" ... you could go on and on. If, instead of getting into drugs and excessive eating and sleeping, Brian had gotten into drinking coconut water and reading lots of books and playing tennis, he probably would've written in a much different vein and methodology. And I would probably like them, but I might not because I really wouldn't want to have anything else except the all around directness of his music during that era. But, uh... Haha, I sort of lost my point after I started imagining the kind of lyrical ideas and arrangements his songs would have if he was just into drinking coconut water and reading a variety of books and playing tennis.

Well, somebody seemed to have some interest in tennis. Hence, we got "Matchpoint Of Our Love. I think we are lucky that Brian, Mike, or whoever it was was not MORE into tennis, ha.

[MBE]

Again, other than diehards, I can't think of many people listening to Brian's tag on "Had To Phone Ya", Dennis on "In The Still Of The Night", Brian's off-key singing on "Just Once In My Life", Dennis on "Mona", Brian on "Solar System", "Let's Put Our Hearts Together", and "Love Is A Woman" - and say that those are good vocals.

To some extent but not as much, and maybe it's because of the poor production, you have to be a real fan of Dennis to say his vocals on "Angel Come Home" and Love Surrounds Me" are excellent. If it was Dennis Smith instead of Dennis Wilson, would you feel the same way?

I'm not huge on Dennis' singing on Love You but on the L.A. Light stuff it besuits the style of the songs. Still like the pre 1974-5 voice better on Dennis though. Brian too of course.

[phirnis]

Again, other than diehards, I can't think of many people listening to Brian's tag on "Had To Phone Ya", Dennis on "In The Still Of The Night", Brian's off-key singing on "Just Once In My Life", Dennis on "Mona", Brian on "Solar System", "Let's Put Our Hearts Together", and "Love Is A Woman" - and say that those are good vocals.

To some extent but not as much, and maybe it's because of the poor production, you have to be a real fan of Dennis to say his vocals on "Angel Come Home" and Love Surrounds Me" are excellent. If it was Dennis Smith instead of Dennis Wilson, would you feel the same way?

Would I feel the same way about van Gogh's paintings if I didn't know he cut his own ear? It's impossible to say, really.

Overall, why is there even a perceived problem with "being a diehard" and thus being able to appreciate what other, more "casual" fans probably don't like? Personally I love BW's singing on "Let's Put Our Hearts Together" despite the very fact that the singing itself is probably sloppy and his voice does indeed sound damaged. The underlying amount of emotion is what gets me and it probably wouldn't make half as much sense if the song was written and sung by Brian Smith instead of Brian Wilson. I see that too and I think it's alright.

[Micha]

I think many of the Love You tracks would sound a bit jokey if they were sung in their angelic voices. Roughness gives the songs the emotion that keeps them being too fey. Same with arrangements, they are just right.

Ummm... I respectfully disagree. Completely, but respectfully.

[Micha]

It's probably for a different thread, but Mike's late 70's vocals also took a turn for the worse in my opinion. Where did the 'Big Sur' voice go? His TWGMTR vocals are better than some of his late 70's work.

Really strange, while the Wilsons' voices (including Carl) all got darker during the 70s, Mike's voice got brighter and even more nasal. The TWGMTR vocals may be better because of, ironically, a decline of his voice in the past few years which reduced the nasalness. (Or they used the new autotune denasalator software. )

Yeah, Mike's Big Sur vocals are his best. I often imagine that voice singing the line "Surf's up aboard a tidal wave"...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mS_uO7hVOn8

LET'S GO MOTHERf***ERS!!

Never heard that before. This makes me really sad. So good this wasn't the end.

Well, somebody seemed to have some interest in tennis. Hence, we got "Matchpoint Of Our Love. I think we are lucky that Brian, Mike, or whoever it was was not MORE into tennis, ha.

Had they followed that path more, we might have had a tennis racket on the cover of the latest hits package!

[Sheriff John Stone]

Again, other than diehards, I can't think of many people listening to Brian's tag on "Had To Phone Ya", Dennis on "In The Still Of The Night", Brian's off-key singing on "Just Once In My Life", Dennis on "Mona", Brian on "Solar System", "Let's Put Our Hearts Together", and "Love Is A Woman" - and say that those are good vocals.

To some extent but not as much, and maybe it's because of the poor production, you have to be a real fan of Dennis to say his vocals on "Angel Come Home" and Love Surrounds Me" are excellent. If it was Dennis Smith instead of Dennis Wilson, would you feel the same way?

Overall, why is there even a perceived problem with "being a diehard" and thus being able to appreciate what other, more "casual" fans probably don't like?

No perceived problem. I was just offering an opinion WHY I thought diehards were more accepting of raspy, hoarse, off-key, slurring, sharp, and flat vocals. Hey, somebody has to appreciate them. Not too many people did. That's a fact.

[Phoenix]

Again, other than diehards, I can't think of many people listening to Brian's tag on "Had To Phone Ya", Dennis on "In The Still Of The Night", Brian's off-key singing on "Just Once In My Life", Dennis on "Mona", Brian on "Solar System", "Let's Put Our Hearts Together", and "Love Is A Woman" - and say that those are good vocals.

To some extent but not as much, and maybe it's because of the poor production, you have to be a real fan of Dennis to say his vocals on "Angel Come Home" and Love Surrounds Me" are excellent. If it was Dennis Smith instead of Dennis Wilson, would you feel the same way?

Again, I agree and would even go so far as to say the same applies to Love You as well, it it been written and produced by Brian Smith and HIS band. I know people will disagree (as this is a very polarizing stance) but I remember when I first heard it (without knowing the background) and it nearly put me off the band for good!  As it was I took a sabbatical to some extent but I really think if I'd "hung in there" for what followed, I definitely would have written them off (for me) before KTSA.

[Sheriff John Stone]

Again, other than diehards, I can't think of many people listening to Brian's tag on "Had To Phone Ya", Dennis on "In The Still Of The Night", Brian's off-key singing on "Just Once In My Life", Dennis on "Mona", Brian on "Solar System", "Let's Put Our Hearts Together", and "Love Is A Woman" - and say that those are good vocals.

To some extent but not as much, and maybe it's because of the poor production, you have to be a real fan of Dennis to say his vocals on "Angel Come Home" and Love Surrounds Me" are excellent. If it was Dennis Smith instead of Dennis Wilson, would you feel the same way?

Again, I agree and would even go so far as to say the same applies to Love You as well, it it been written and produced by Brian Smith and HIS band. I know people will disagree (as this is a very polarizing stance) but I remember when I first heard it (without knowing the background) and it nearly put me off the band for good! 

There were probably a couple of reasons why 15 Big Ones and Love You - and maybe even L.A. Light Album - turned off the casual fans, but I always thought the MAIN reason was the vocals. In 1974-75 the Beach Boys were one of, if not the most popular band around, largely due to Endless Summer and Spirit Of America. Most fans bought 15 Big Ones expecting to hear voices that sounded like, well, the Beach Boys. They didn't get that. There was a collective "Are these the same guys who sang those songs on Endless Summer?" I know because I was one of them. After more of the same vocals with Love You, even more fans bailed. And on and on....

[phirnis]

Again, other than diehards, I can't think of many people listening to Brian's tag on "Had To Phone Ya", Dennis on "In The Still Of The Night", Brian's off-key singing on "Just Once In My Life", Dennis on "Mona", Brian on "Solar System", "Let's Put Our Hearts Together", and "Love Is A Woman" - and say that those are good vocals.

To some extent but not as much, and maybe it's because of the poor production, you have to be a real fan of Dennis to say his vocals on "Angel Come Home" and Love Surrounds Me" are excellent. If it was Dennis Smith instead of Dennis Wilson, would you feel the same way?

Overall, why is there even a perceived problem with "being a diehard" and thus being able to appreciate what other, more "casual" fans probably don't like?

No perceived problem. I was just offering an opinion WHY I thought diehards were more accepting of raspy, hoarse, off-key, slurring, sharp, and flat vocals. Hey, somebody has to appreciate them. Not too many people did. That's a fact.

Yes it is, I agree! I wasn't there in 1977, instead I discovered Love You as a "cult classic" in the early 2000s and to me it mostly seemed like a full-length extension of BW's contributions to albums such as Holland.
Personally, do you still mainly feel the sense of disappointment or have you learned to appreciate 15BO/LY/LA in one way or another? What about the M.I.U. Album?

[Micha]

Personally, do you still mainly feel the sense of disappointment or have you learned to appreciate 15BO/LY/LA in one way or another? What about the M.I.U. Album?

To me, MIU was a pleasant surprise. I knew Love You and LA before, don't really like them, and expected a cross between them. Instead I found bright cheerfulness. There are some not-that-good songs on it, but it has the highest number of tracks I like on one album in the period between Sunflower and TWGMTR.

[Jay]

When I first heard 15 Big Ones, about ten or so years ago on the twofer, I was quite shocked hearing Brian's voice on Had To Phone Ya. I guess his "new voice" is kind of an acquired taste. MIU was a sur[rise for me, because his voice on that album is so "clean". It's not the Brian Wilson of the early 1960's, or even the Brian of 1970-73, but it's infinitely better than the guy who sang on 15 Big Ones. Oddly, I immediately loved Dennis's version of In The Still Of The Night, from the first time I heard it.

[Sheriff John Stone]

Again, other than diehards, I can't think of many people listening to Brian's tag on "Had To Phone Ya", Dennis on "In The Still Of The Night", Brian's off-key singing on "Just Once In My Life", Dennis on "Mona", Brian on "Solar System", "Let's Put Our Hearts Together", and "Love Is A Woman" - and say that those are good vocals.

To some extent but not as much, and maybe it's because of the poor production, you have to be a real fan of Dennis to say his vocals on "Angel Come Home" and Love Surrounds Me" are excellent. If it was Dennis Smith instead of Dennis Wilson, would you feel the same way?

Overall, why is there even a perceived problem with "being a diehard" and thus being able to appreciate what other, more "casual" fans probably don't like?

No perceived problem. I was just offering an opinion WHY I thought diehards were more accepting of raspy, hoarse, off-key, slurring, sharp, and flat vocals. Hey, somebody has to appreciate them. Not too many people did. That's a fact.

Yes it is, I agree! I wasn't there in 1977, instead I discovered Love You as a "cult classic" in the early 2000s and to me it mostly seemed like a full-length extension of BW's contributions to albums such as Holland.
Personally, do you still mainly feel the sense of disappointment or have you learned to appreciate 15BO/LY/LA in one way or another? What about the M.I.U. Album?

Good question. 15 Big Ones was the first "new" Beach Boys' album I bought, obviously Love You being the second. I loved both of them immediately, but it was more for the songs (melodies and arrangements), the production (15 Big Ones is Brian's Phil Spector album), and some of the vocals. Accepting the ragged vocals wasn't easy, and I knew that was gonna be a problem with the average music fan. I ultimately accepted the vocals, and some I grew to enjoy. But, I played those albums for several people including casual Beach Boys' fans who absolutely hated the vocals, actually made fun of them. However, like I said, I knew even before I played the albums for friends that the vocals were a detriment. And, that was frustrating. The Beach Boys were given a second chance. They were at or near the top of the music world. And, of all things, ironically, their vocals cost them big time. Again, that wasn't the only reason, but it was a major reason.

Personally, I was more accepting of the vocals because I was becoming obsessed with the Brian Wilson saga. I was a product of the "Brian Is Back" campaign, and I was fascinated (and still am) by the man and his story. To the average fan he was just another drug casualty.

I always liked MIU. I still remember the elation I felt when I dropped the needle and heard Brian's voice on "She's Got Rhythm", followed by "Wontcha Come Out Tonight", "Matchpoint", and the tag on "Winds Of Change". Unfortunately the material was weaker than Love You. And less songs. By that time the group was fading, there was a lack of publicity, more drugs, etc. But I can still put on MIU and enjoy it all the way through.

Regarding L.A. Light Album....It is for me the most disappointing Beach Boys' album of all. I liked Brian's songs on 15 Big Ones, Love You, and MIU. His voice was returning to respectability, He was looking better physically. I was expecting big things with L.A. Light Album. Other than an isolated "ooh" or "ahh", Brian isn't even on L.A. Light Album. I was perplexed, frustrated, and saddened. "What happened?", I thought. 

[phirnis]

I absolutely agree about 15BO being Brian's Phil Spector album!

There's something about Love You that always made perfect sense to me, despite the crooked singing and ocassionally awkward lyrics. As an album I think it's deeply embedded in that particular "the man and his story" thing you mention, maybe even more so than The Smile Sessions... To me it always seemed like a man who had already gone through a lot of incredibly hard times trying to rekindle the sense of joy and innocence that some of his most successful work had always portrayed. In that sense I think it's a uniquely personal album and I perfectly understand it's not something that the more casual fans can easily relate to if they thought of BW as just another drug casualty.