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Author Topic: Brian & Al KLOS Show 12/13/12  (Read 8731 times)
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« Reply #75 on: December 18, 2012, 05:00:06 PM »


Terrible, silly questions that served no cultural, intellectual, nor spiritual purpose. We learned nothing about the state of the BB.

I think it was pretty evident that the interviewer probably knew that this was some dude from the Beach Boys, and other than that seemed to be going off of notes full of mostly inane questions. Sad, but not surprising. I don't expect some super fan to start grilling Al about what the band's plans are or anything, but that was pretty bad.

Al referenced a recording of RAH, but I think he simply acknowledged that a recording was made, and seemed almost whimsical about some day getting to simply hear it. Far from anything indicating a release of the show. We can hope, though.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2012, 05:02:32 PM by HeyJude » Logged

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« Reply #76 on: December 18, 2012, 05:02:08 PM »

Happy to see Nicky back in the fold but... not one of Brian's better performances.

From the video, sounds like he was half-assing it.

I've seen Brian in person a bunch of times and have listened to countless recordings, and this show wasn't hugely different from an average Brian show. It was a short set, so I guess he didn't get a chance to warm up a bit like he sometimes can. Other than that, this is just kind of how Brian sounds at a typical show. Perhaps a bit below literally an "average" show, but I'm so used to his shows that his peformance here didn't strike me as particularly worse.
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« Reply #77 on: December 18, 2012, 05:38:58 PM »

Isn't Bruce a longer touring Beach Boy then Al now?

I think that was pointed out several years ago, and it's a factoid of no consequence whatsoever now, just as it was back then. Ed Carter is a longer touring member of the band than Brian Wilson. For that matter, Bruce is a longer touring member than Dennis and Carl too.

I'm particularly at a loss as to what Bruce's years under the licensed BB name has to do with Al and Brian doing a show together.

So the answer is: yes.

It was a reply to John Manning's: "This pairing has more genetic right to bear the Beach Boys name".
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« Reply #78 on: December 18, 2012, 05:48:52 PM »

Important Addition: If you go to the actual website for the venue and tickets for this specific show at the TD Bank Center, they *specifically* list the following in italics:

"This concert will not feature Brian Wilson, Al Jardine or David Marks"

Someone in marketing and sales (or legal) is on the ball... Grin

OK then, nothing to see here.   Smiley

Chinook Winds Casino, Lincoln City Oregon - The Beach Boys perform March 1 & 2, 2013!
http://www.chinookwindscasino.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=600%3Athe-beach-boys-perform-march-1-a-2-2013&catid=51%3Aconcerts&Itemid=126

That's not the case in this appearance.  This announcement plays kinda fast and loose with who is in the band.  For the unenlightened, they might expect to see Brian Wilson et all playing these shows.

(I know Mike has alternative reasons for playing this venue for two shows but this small casino really isn't worthy of the Beach Boys legacy.  You'd NEVER find McCartney, let alone Ringo, playing this place)
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« Reply #79 on: December 18, 2012, 06:02:01 PM »

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I've seen Brian in person a bunch of times and have listened to countless recordings, and this show wasn't hugely different from an average Brian show. It was a short set, so I guess he didn't get a chance to warm up a bit like he sometimes can. Other than that, this is just kind of how Brian sounds at a typical show. Perhaps a bit below literally an "average" show, but I'm so used to his shows that his peformance here didn't strike me as particularly worse.

Same here, but I can tell what Brian is going full-on with something and when he's doing the bare minimum. On that song, he wasn't putting forth his full effort. I think the C50 tour showed what he can do when he's going d*cks to the bricks.
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« Reply #80 on: December 18, 2012, 10:25:07 PM »

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I've seen Brian in person a bunch of times and have listened to countless recordings, and this show wasn't hugely different from an average Brian show. It was a short set, so I guess he didn't get a chance to warm up a bit like he sometimes can. Other than that, this is just kind of how Brian sounds at a typical show. Perhaps a bit below literally an "average" show, but I'm so used to his shows that his peformance here didn't strike me as particularly worse.

Same here, but I can tell what Brian is going full-on with something and when he's doing the bare minimum. On that song, he wasn't putting forth his full effort. I think the C50 tour showed what he can do when he's going d*cks to the bricks.

That sounds painful. Perhaps that's why he avoids it when possible.
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« Reply #81 on: December 18, 2012, 10:35:53 PM »

Important Addition: If you go to the actual website for the venue and tickets for this specific show at the TD Bank Center, they *specifically* list the following in italics:

"This concert will not feature Brian Wilson, Al Jardine or David Marks"

Someone in marketing and sales (or legal) is on the ball... Grin

OK then, nothing to see here.   Smiley

Chinook Winds Casino, Lincoln City Oregon - The Beach Boys perform March 1 & 2, 2013!
http://www.chinookwindscasino.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=600%3Athe-beach-boys-perform-march-1-a-2-2013&catid=51%3Aconcerts&Itemid=126

That's not the case in this appearance.  This announcement plays kinda fast and loose with who is in the band.  For the unenlightened, they might expect to see Brian Wilson et all playing these shows.

Indeed... that's a wonderful piece of raising expectations without actually lying. Dude should be a politician.
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« Reply #82 on: December 18, 2012, 10:49:10 PM »

"Must be 16 years or older to attend". Interesting.
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« Reply #83 on: December 19, 2012, 04:51:26 AM »



Chinook Winds Casino, Lincoln City Oregon - The Beach Boys perform March 1 & 2, 2013!
Great way to keep the BBs name valuable and not saturated like Mike talked about when ending C50. Roll Eyes
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« Reply #84 on: December 19, 2012, 05:55:52 AM »

Isn't Bruce a longer touring Beach Boy then Al now?

I think that was pointed out several years ago, and it's a factoid of no consequence whatsoever now, just as it was back then. Ed Carter is a longer touring member of the band than Brian Wilson. For that matter, Bruce is a longer touring member than Dennis and Carl too.

I'm particularly at a loss as to what Bruce's years under the licensed BB name has to do with Al and Brian doing a show together.

So the answer is: yes.

It was a reply to John Manning's: "This pairing has more genetic right to bear the Beach Boys name".


That helps place your question in context. But it's still, in my view only, a pointless rhetorical question. Surely anybody on this board can count the number of years actual BB's have been touring with a lineup using the BB name. Were you really unsure about the fact that Bruce toured from 1965 to 1972, and from 1978 to present, while Al toured from 1963 to 1998?

Whether the "genetic" comment was agreeable or not, I would also imagine the Wilson/Jardine lineup having an actual Wilson *may* have had something to do with the "genetic" reference. I don't think a Wilson/Jardine lineup should use the BB name (funnily enough, Brian and Al apparently agree with that sentiment), but it does raise an interest scenario where they certainly seem to have as much justification in using the name as Mike and Bruce do. But that's certainly a tired "band name" debate that goes nowhere.
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« Reply #85 on: December 19, 2012, 07:03:14 AM »

Aye, my gene thing was a Wilson reference. I do think there'd've been a band since 61 whether Al, Dave or Mike had played along or not, and the Wilsons were the heart of it.

But also agree that it might not be the argument we should have. If Dave hooked up with Al and Brian, would that re-inforce their right to use the BBs' name? And if Bruce saw which side his v=bread was buttered and jumped ship to tag along, where would that leave things?
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« Reply #86 on: December 19, 2012, 08:32:29 AM »

For what its worth, the discussion about the "Beach Boys" name and its use can only be hypothetical. Whether or not Al and or David teams up with Brian is likely immaterial. The License Agreement and whatever its terms and provisions are, controls the situation. Without knowing the full details of that agreement, speculation is pointless. Its length, renewal provisions (if any), business terms, requirements to remain in force, termination provisions, and otherwise set forth the basis on which control and use of the name occurs. Whatever anyone's feelings are about the situation, the license agreement and what it provides is the bottomline on the matter.
This is probably just pointing out the obvious. 
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« Reply #87 on: December 19, 2012, 09:55:43 AM »

Isn't Bruce a longer touring Beach Boy then Al now?

I think that was pointed out several years ago, and it's a factoid of no consequence whatsoever now, just as it was back then. Ed Carter is a longer touring member of the band than Brian Wilson. For that matter, Bruce is a longer touring member than Dennis and Carl too.

I'm particularly at a loss as to what Bruce's years under the licensed BB name has to do with Al and Brian doing a show together.

So the answer is: yes.

It was a reply to John Manning's: "This pairing has more genetic right to bear the Beach Boys name".


That helps place your question in context. But it's still, in my view only, a pointless rhetorical question. Surely anybody on this board can count the number of years actual BB's have been touring with a lineup using the BB name. Were you really unsure about the fact that Bruce toured from 1965 to 1972, and from 1978 to present, while Al toured from 1963 to 1998?

Whether the "genetic" comment was agreeable or not, I would also imagine the Wilson/Jardine lineup having an actual Wilson *may* have had something to do with the "genetic" reference. I don't think a Wilson/Jardine lineup should use the BB name (funnily enough, Brian and Al apparently agree with that sentiment), but it does raise an interest scenario where they certainly seem to have as much justification in using the name as Mike and Bruce do. But that's certainly a tired "band name" debate that goes nowhere.

"Yes" would have been a much simpler answer.

Being a Wilson is no more meaningful or genetic than being a Love, Jardine, Marks, Johnson. I agree with BB Universe as far as the rest of the second part of your post.
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« Reply #88 on: December 19, 2012, 11:14:28 AM »


"Yes" would have been a much simpler answer.

Being a Wilson is no more meaningful or genetic than being a Love, Jardine, Marks, Johnson. I agree with BB Universe as far as the rest of the second part of your post.

Actually, I suppose not answering the question at all would have been the best course to take, as it did seem like a rhetorical question that seemed, in my view, to be intended as snarky or provocative, etc.

I don't think genes play a role in the BB's, it's the actual members. I suppose to the degree that one can take one BB and leave the other, I suppose some arbitrary meaningless "ranking" system would dictate that Brian, Mike, and Al are more integral members to using the name than Marks and Johnston. It's easy to point out that Brian indeed usually didn't figure into live shows. My take on that is simply that Brian is as integral to the live band as anybody when or if he's actually willing to be a part of it. Ironically, here were are at the end of 2012 and Brian wanted to be in the live band, and for numerous apparent reasons, it didn't happen.

Ideally, we get all of the living and willing BB's. I'm very glad we at least got that in 2012.
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« Reply #89 on: December 19, 2012, 11:18:30 AM »

Aye, my gene thing was a Wilson reference. I do think there'd've been a band since 61 whether Al, Dave or Mike had played along or not, and the Wilsons were the heart of it.

But also agree that it might not be the argument we should have. If Dave hooked up with Al and Brian, would that re-inforce their right to use the BBs' name? And if Bruce saw which side his v=bread was buttered and jumped ship to tag along, where would that leave things?

Brian, Al, and David all playing together wouldn't mean anything legally in terms of use of the name unless Brian and Al took action within their corporate structure. It would certainly add to the perception by *some* folks that Mike's use of the BB name is illegitimate. Since 1998, while plenty of criticism was lobbed at Mike for using the name, there was also always the sense that there wasn't much else that could be done with the name. By 1999, Marks left, Jardine was on the outs, and Brian wasn' t interested. There wasn't an alternative to Mike using the name other than nobody using the name. If three actual BB's toured together while two others toured seperately but used the band's name, that certainly wouldn't help to quiet criticism. But the fact that the criticism has been there all along and has been of little or no consequence to Mike continuing to use the name would suggest that Bruce, Blondie, Ricky, and a resurrected Dennis and Carl could all join in with Brian, David, and Al, and Mike would still use the name to the applause of most of the fans who go to the shows.
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« Reply #90 on: December 19, 2012, 11:22:10 AM »

For what its worth, the discussion about the "Beach Boys" name and its use can only be hypothetical. Whether or not Al and or David teams up with Brian is likely immaterial. The License Agreement and whatever its terms and provisions are, controls the situation. Without knowing the full details of that agreement, speculation is pointless. Its length, renewal provisions (if any), business terms, requirements to remain in force, termination provisions, and otherwise set forth the basis on which control and use of the name occurs. Whatever anyone's feelings are about the situation, the license agreement and what it provides is the bottomline on the matter.
This is probably just pointing out the obvious.  

This is definitely a good point to make from time to time. The only thing indeed that will impact any change in use of the BB name is action within their corporate structure in terms of licensing the trademark. We indeed don't know the details of the current licensing agreement. My best guess is that if Brian and Al both wanted to end Mike's use of the name, they could probably on their own (or with lobbying of Carl's estate) enact such a change if they were willing to have a long, protracted fight about it. As I've mentioned numerous times, I doubt even in his zeal to continue the reunion, that Brian would actually put such a plan into motion. I doubt his zeal goes that far. The cost/benefit wouldn't make it much of a good decision most likely.
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« Reply #91 on: December 19, 2012, 11:58:09 AM »

AGD mentioned that the C50  was a separate tour to the Mike deal which must mean some kind of clause in the licencing agreement which put it on hold for mid 2012. Given Andrew also said the tour was agreed to 2 years ago, this clause must have been in existence some time ago.

So it would be possible that next time it is up for negotiation, something again could be possible if, as has been suggested, Brian is interested.
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« Reply #92 on: December 19, 2012, 12:54:37 PM »

Important Addition: If you go to the actual website for the venue and tickets for this specific show at the TD Bank Center, they *specifically* list the following in italics:

"This concert will not feature Brian Wilson, Al Jardine or David Marks"

Someone in marketing and sales (or legal) is on the ball... Grin

OK then, nothing to see here.   Smiley

Chinook Winds Casino, Lincoln City Oregon - The Beach Boys perform March 1 & 2, 2013!
http://www.chinookwindscasino.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=600%3Athe-beach-boys-perform-march-1-a-2-2013&catid=51%3Aconcerts&Itemid=126

That's not the case in this appearance.  This announcement plays kinda fast and loose with who is in the band.  For the unenlightened, they might expect to see Brian Wilson et all playing these shows.

Indeed... that's a wonderful piece of raising expectations without actually lying. Dude should be a politician.

Indeed!
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« Reply #93 on: December 19, 2012, 01:08:26 PM »

The more likely scenario as to the C50 is that the license is not periodically up for renewal but has a (long) fixed term and that the licensee (here it is ML) agreed to a limited amendment of the license for the purpose of C50, unless the license itself includes a clause that addresses the situation involving a "tour of the whole". And, unless the license has some sort of reopener clause (highly doubtful) and is of the fixed term nature, the other corporate members will likely have to wait until the term expires before being able to negotiate anew.
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« Reply #94 on: December 19, 2012, 01:21:17 PM »

The more likely scenario as to the C50 is that the license is not periodically up for renewal but has a (long) fixed term and that the licensee (here it is ML) agreed to a limited amendment of the license for the purpose of C50, unless the license itself includes a clause that addresses the situation involving a "tour of the whole". And, unless the license has some sort of reopener clause (highly doubtful) and is of the fixed term nature, the other corporate members will likely have to wait until the term expires before being able to negotiate anew.

Very possible. I think we are flying pretty blind when it comes to any of the actual terms and conditions of the current license. One would think that they would not tie themselves into some sort of iron-clad decade-long license or something like that, but who knows? I would think some sort of renewal or re-evaluation of the license (if for no other reason than to be able to have the option to alter the fees of the license) could be possible on a semi-regular basis. Mike obviously would have to book shows in advance to the degree that it wouldn't be neccesarily revokeable on a yearly basis or anything.

I would think Brian's lawyers (and Al's for that matter, to the degree than he exerts any kind of influence in such matters) would put him in a situation where he would still have the option to have some sort of ability to wield some power in the situation if he wanted to. But I think even in that scenario, Brian would probably have little desire to have the situation devolve into another 5 or 10 years of legal wrangling.
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« Reply #95 on: December 19, 2012, 01:29:17 PM »

Important Addition: If you go to the actual website for the venue and tickets for this specific show at the TD Bank Center, they *specifically* list the following in italics:

"This concert will not feature Brian Wilson, Al Jardine or David Marks"

Someone in marketing and sales (or legal) is on the ball... Grin

OK then, nothing to see here.   Smiley

Chinook Winds Casino, Lincoln City Oregon - The Beach Boys perform March 1 & 2, 2013!
http://www.chinookwindscasino.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=600%3Athe-beach-boys-perform-march-1-a-2-2013&catid=51%3Aconcerts&Itemid=126

That's not the case in this appearance.  This announcement plays kinda fast and loose with who is in the band.  For the unenlightened, they might expect to see Brian Wilson et all playing these shows.

(I know Mike has alternative reasons for playing this venue for two shows but this small casino really isn't worthy of the Beach Boys legacy.  You'd NEVER find McCartney, let alone Ringo, playing this place)

It's interesting and apporpriately generalized in wording, although I suppose the following line from the website: "The band has gone through many phases of membership, with Mike Love and Bruce Johnston being constant.", is technically inaccurate. Even if we discount Mike missing a show here and there a few times, Bruce certainly has not been quite constant, with a gap of six years in the 70's being most prevalent.

Mike's touring and doing these venues for the same reasons he has for the last umpteen years, and "bringing the music to smaller markets" for fear of somehow losing their fanbase is, in my view, low on the list of reasons, if we believe it's on the "list" at all.
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« Reply #96 on: December 19, 2012, 01:42:31 PM »

Important Addition: If you go to the actual website for the venue and tickets for this specific show at the TD Bank Center, they *specifically* list the following in italics:

"This concert will not feature Brian Wilson, Al Jardine or David Marks"

Someone in marketing and sales (or legal) is on the ball... Grin

OK then, nothing to see here.   Smiley

Chinook Winds Casino, Lincoln City Oregon - The Beach Boys perform March 1 & 2, 2013!
http://www.chinookwindscasino.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=600%3Athe-beach-boys-perform-march-1-a-2-2013&catid=51%3Aconcerts&Itemid=126

That's not the case in this appearance.  This announcement plays kinda fast and loose with who is in the band.  For the unenlightened, they might expect to see Brian Wilson et all playing these shows.

(I know Mike has alternative reasons for playing this venue for two shows but this small casino really isn't worthy of the Beach Boys legacy.  You'd NEVER find McCartney, let alone Ringo, playing this place)

It's interesting and apporpriately generalized in wording, although I suppose the following line from the website: "The band has gone through many phases of membership, with Mike Love and Bruce Johnston being constant.", is technically inaccurate. Even if we discount Mike missing a show here and there a few times, Bruce certainly has not been quite constant, with a gap of six years in the 70's being most prevalent.

Mike's touring and doing these venues for the same reasons he has for the last umpteen years, and "bringing the music to smaller markets" for fear of somehow losing their fanbase is, in my view, low on the list of reasons, if we believe it's on the "list" at all.

That isn't the reason he is playing this place. Far from it.............
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« Reply #97 on: December 19, 2012, 03:15:04 PM »

Wouldn't the reason he would like playing a couple of gigs in Oregon is because he has family up there?  Just a guess. Unless a more nefarious reason is known. Also, as far as not making it clear who's in the band, that may be on individual promoters, not Mike and Bruce. Or they take that attitude until it's brought to their attention by Brian's people or whoever that they need to have the promoters make it clear who's actually in the band for that gig.
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« Reply #98 on: December 19, 2012, 03:19:47 PM »


I lost track of the interview and was listening to Brian and his band sing California Girls in the background, they sound good.  Grin
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« Reply #99 on: December 19, 2012, 03:39:22 PM »

The more likely scenario as to the C50 is that the license is not periodically up for renewal but has a (long) fixed term and that the licensee (here it is ML) agreed to a limited amendment of the license for the purpose of C50, unless the license itself includes a clause that addresses the situation involving a "tour of the whole". And, unless the license has some sort of reopener clause (highly doubtful) and is of the fixed term nature, the other corporate members will likely have to wait until the term expires before being able to negotiate anew.

You're assuming that the current license has an expiry date. Maybe it do, maybe it don't.
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What it was isn't what you thought it is, because it is what it is, because you claim so, because you confirm it, because you insist that it is what it is. And therefore, it ain't what it ain't.

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