Phil Spector Interview (Merv Griffin Show 1965)

[Rocker]

The Beach Boys were on Merv in 1968 but it hasn't been seen since.  I wonder if the tape will now surface-looks like the Griffin estate is now releasing all the archives.  They also appeared in early 1982 (taped in late 81) and that clip is/or was on Youtube.  Has them doing a lip-synch medley (minus Carl)

The archives for Merv Griffin's show have been available for licensing for a handful of years, but it's not something the average person or fan can contact them with and ask to buy a certain episode or clip on demand. If you are, say, a network TV show and want to use a clip of a certain celeb, there is an entertainment agency that handles the requests and will go through the legal means to license the clip.

I think many of the Mike Douglas shows are also available this way, but I do believe a majority of Merv Griffin's run on television was archived and saved on video, unlike, say, the Johnny Carson or Joey Bishop shows which were mostly lost.

This begs the question, for those in an official capacity who are in a position to license such clips, why have we not seen items such as those mentioned from the Griffin show, or the ones which were listed as available from Griffin's or Douglas' official libraries? Is it a financial reason, or are the legal issues too big to just license and release the clips through some kind of a Beach Boys archival deal for the fans? Because the clips are there, as far as we can tell, unless the specific Beach Boys content is not part of the archive.

The intro in this video might have more info.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jl8JjJJ4ME

It also links to this site:
http://www.reelinintheyears.com/index.php

[halblaineisgood]

Hey, I didn't say Phil didn't deserve to die in jail, he does.
Phil, when he didn't have his chip-on-shoulder resentment-at-the-world pseudo-jazz slur on, was a nice, understandable guy. You can see that Phil in the interview captured in the Living In The Material World documentary on George Harrison.
The thing with Phil is, his anger comes from the same source as his music, it is a very punk rock thing, a rise from the bottom of the social food chain. His genius, as with so many people in rock and roll, comes out of personality dysfunction, or develops in that way. Compare that to Brian Wilson, who was a football player dating the prettiest cheerleaders and heading out for root beer runs. Brian Wilson's social class (tho not him specifically, of course, he was too good of a guy) are the type who probably beat up Phil in school. Some of the resentment people like Phil and Zappa had about Brian Wilson comes from that, the outsider's natural resentment of the Big Man On Campus. People see Brian as an outsider now, but he wasn't then, he was the Class President.
As far as Phil's attitude in that clip, he comes off as jive. Dylan did that stance way better, he had the act down pat and never lost his cool.

Phil talkin'  'bout how he's jive   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPnFt1AJ_d0    (skip to 2:06)

[Sheriff John Stone]

Phil talkin'  'bout how he's jive   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPnFt1AJ_d0    (skip to 2:06)

So, Brian's favorite song was almost "My One And Only Baby". Hal Blaine is a genius, too

[KittyKat]

It's funny to see what Phil Spector looked and sounded like if you've ever read Ronnie Spector's autobiography. She fell head over heels in love with him at first sight and describes it in great detail in her book. Uh, Ronnie, dear, why?

[Shady]

It's funny to see what Phil Spector looked and sounded like if you've ever read Ronnie Spector's autobiography. She fell head over heels in love with him at first sight and describes it in great detail in her book. Uh, Ronnie, dear, why?

The cane, perhaps.

[Shane]

The thing with Phil is, his anger comes from the same source as his music, it is a very punk rock thing, a rise from the bottom of the social food chain. His genius, as with so many people in rock and roll, comes out of personality dysfunction, or develops in that way. Compare that to Brian Wilson, who was a football player dating the prettiest cheerleaders and heading out for root beer runs. Brian Wilson's social class (tho not him specifically, of course, he was too good of a guy) are the type who probably beat up Phil in school. Some of the resentment people like Phil and Zappa had about Brian Wilson comes from that, the outsider's natural resentment of the Big Man On Campus. People see Brian as an outsider now, but he wasn't then, he was the Class President.

Just wanna say, this is a fantastic post.  I think you've really dissected the whole situation here.  In this way, Kurt Cobain falls into the same category as Phil Spector.

[Dunderhead]

I think part of the difference is also that Brian had Murry and Phil's dad died while he was still growing up. Brian was dominated by the idea of his father, Phil was like Wagner, a spoiled child raised by his mother into a tyrant.

[Jukka]

Well said about Kurt Cobain. He was my hero when I was in my teens. Musically, he still is one of them, but his "grumpy punk rock outsider" -mentality that comes across in some of his interviews now seems a bit daft. Dylan was/is the only one one who can carry that out. Maybe Zappa, too. John Lydon tries too hard.

[leoleoleoleo]

wow... that was a sh*t piece of television if ever i saw it. they had not only Phil Spector but also Richard Pryor - two hugely talented people who are now considered to be legends in their respective fields... and that was the best they could do? i'm from the UK so excuse me for not really knowing who merv griffin is. it's one of those names you hear of from time to time but i wouldn't be able to tell you anything about him. But judging from that; what a lousy, uninteresting, charisma bereft host.


That was one of the most awkward things ive ever watched, and i'm a Brian Wilson fan.

[guitarfool2002]

There is something else being missed in all of this - and I do agree that it feels awkward when watching this clip - but there was some background to how Phil was acting specifically on this show.

At a certain time, let's compare what Phil did on this show to what someone like Charles Grodin was known to do with Johnny Carson. If we watched one of Grodin's older appearances on Carson's show, and didn't know a thing about who Grodin was, everyone watching would think Grodin was the biggest horse's ass on tv. He'd come on the show and basically rip Johnny apart, be a grump, be insulting - the whole deal. It was like Don Rickles, but Rickles was so well known for acting like an ass and insulting people...and he looked the role he played...it was his nasty schtick that made him famous. Grodin came out looking like a professor or something, Carson would be nice, and Grodin would spit it back at him.

Spector appearing on Merv Griffin played the same role. This was *NOT* a one-off appearance, nor was it a guest spot to plug something. Spector was a regular guest on Merv Griffin's show, and it wasn't even a guest kind of deal as his seat on this day was at Merv's desk - guests usually took the chair and the couch next to the desk.

Spector was playing up the role of critic, curmudgeon, resident grump, whatever you want to call him. Naturally when you play something up, you still get a lot of yourself coming out in the role. But Spector has multiple appearances logged with Griffin and on his show, and if you listen between the one-liners, you'll hear references to this act of Phil's as if it were something he would come on the show specifically to do - play the heavy, the sarcastic millionaire, whatever the case, and make it a point to insult people.

For proof of this, short of finding other clips of Phil Spector on Griffin, note that he was a semi-regular guest with Merv in 1965 and 1966, and by semi-regular I mean more than the showbiz folks who would appear only to plug a movie.

American talk shows were different back then, I think the old tapes resurfacing may even show that they were far different in tone and in pace than even those who watched regularly at the time would remember them.


Note: Merv Griffin is considered a pioneer in television for his creation and development of game shows. Jeopardy and Wheel Of Fortune are among the most popular and long-running game shows (and tv shows in general) in history. They're still on 5 nights a week in most US markets. He also wrote the Jeopardy theme music, which to Americans is as ubiquitous as any melody you'd hear in everyday life...and the royalties made Griffin a fortune. He was a multi-, multi- millionaire successful from his media ventures. His talk show was big with a certain demographic, but I think he said he was asked to do that show because of his outgoing personality, more than any specific talent he had. But the show was on for decades, whatever his skill.

Just remember Phil was indeed playing up a role when you watch this, and the role was one that he was called back onto the show to play because someone thought it was funny, interesting, or compelling enough for him to play the guy the crowd wanted to boo and jeer after he'd be critical of a guest or the host. I'm not saying the role we see in that clip wasn't a lot of Phil's own manners and personality, but he was playing up a character when he'd do the Griffin show. Just like Grodin on Johnny Carson's show.

[Magic Transistor Radio]

Is it just me, or did Mike Nesmith resemble Phil Spector?

[I. Spaceman]

That's all quite true, Craig. But he doesn't play that role well, at least in that appearance.

[Sheriff John Stone]

Spector was a regular guest on Merv Griffin's show, and it wasn't even a guest kind of deal as his seat on this day was at Merv's desk - guests usually took the chair and the couch next to the desk.

I found that seating arrangement interesting in a couple of ways. First, the way Spector was blurting things out, as if whatever was crossing his mind, reminded me of that occasional side of Brian Wilson.

And, it almost looked like Spector needed that distance from the others, like a safety zone, which gave him some space to speak his mind. Especially with Eartha Kitt, I wonder if he would've been as forward with her if he was sitting next to her. She might've smacked him - or walked off.

I agree with prior posts that part of this was an act, but I also wonder if Spector couldn't control himself, or his impulsiveness. Do you get the feeling that he dealt with EVERYBODY in a similar way?

[guitarfool2002]

The main point of all I wrote above was that what we see in that single film clip was Spector playing the role of agitator, which he was invited back, beyond a handful of times and sometime twice in one week (which even Carson did not do often with any guests), to play that character on Merv Griffin's show in 65-66. Every talk show had their "characters", these recurring often B-list semi-celebs like Henry Morgan or Oscar Levant (who was actually brilliant when he was coherent...) who would come on to shake things up.

We cannot take that Spector appearance as the way Spector was with everyone. Do I think he acted that way with everyone? That judgement cannot be made fairly on a 10 minute TV appearance.

It was a recurring bit for Phil to come on and act up in exactly that way, not too far removed from the wrestler who gets picked to be the heavy, bad-guy character so the fans can boo something as much as they cheer.

I think Phil relished the role - and remember, he was being called something like a teenage Svengali, and he'd go on and rip apart the "old guard" of showbiz, i.e. anyone over 24 and even Merv's band, which I thought was cool.

How could Merv not bring him back? Merv's crowd felt bad for the people he mocked, they groaned and booed, and Merv's people thought Phil was taking the bigger beating by getting hissed by those folks. All the time, Phil was on their show, on their stage, sending all of them up and doing it in a way a lot of people watching Merv had no clue what he was saying...Note Phil's line about wearing his "LSD Glasses", then Merv tries them on and gets a big laugh from the 45+ audience members who thought it was funny to see button-down Merv wearing such crazy glasses. Note also Phil's lines about Merv's band: They were basically a generation removed from the guys making Phil millions in LA.

A bigger note to note: Johnny Carson's show comes up in the discussion in this clip, with the issue of why Phil doesn't do Carson's show, and appears on Merv's show instead. That was an easy one Phil would never say: Carson was a comedic genius with the best timing in the business, and a sharp wit. Spector knew this, he would not dare to do what he did with Merv - make a mockery of the show - with Carson because he'd look foolish. He could not match wits with Carson, while he could go on Merv's show, cut it to pieces, mock the guests, mock the whole scene, bring on silly props like a cane and psychedelic shades and have those props win bigger laughs that anything Merv could say, and look like a real freak to the middle America loyal viewers who thought by laughing at him being outlandish they were getting the edge, but it was just the opposite going on, and just prior to it really taking hold and changing the entertainment business.

Phil was invited back, he was a repeat guest, sometimes twice a week, and he chose Merv's show - that's all which is necessary to connect a few more dots than a single 10 minute video of just one such appearance can connect.

[guitarfool2002]

That's all quite true, Craig. But he doesn't play that role well, at least in that appearance.

I agree, it's more uncomfortable than it needed to be, but maybe the guests can be blamed for that, too. And ultimately, it was Merv's people going up to Merv himself who wanted Phil to keep coming back to the show and play this role for laughs, despite the guests. The guests' reactions suggest they weren't up to the task of giving it back to Phil in a way that a Johnny Carson, Jonathon Winters, even a Lenny Bruce would do. I thought Pryor was a let-down in how he acted timid and his jokes fell flat, but then I realized it wasn't the Pryor of 1975 and he was a young guy who probably didn't want to ruffle a lot of feathers by reacting to Phil's schtick as he would if it were happening somewhere other than a TV broadcast.

How about seeing Wally Cox in that clip? I'm guessing at this time he was still living in that mansion which Peter Tork would later buy and turn into one of the worst/best crash pads and party mansions in LA. 

[Sheriff John Stone]

We cannot take that Spector appearance as the way Spector was with everyone. Do I think he acted that way with everyone? That judgement cannot be made fairly on a 10 minute TV appearance.

Of course....I was just speculating, thinking out loud, making a generalization.

Speaking of Johnny Carson and favorite guests who played a role....I used to love it when Buddy Rich was on. Buddy was a surly, obnoxious, sometimes crude guest, but you could almost see the tongue planted firmly in cheek, and you got the feeling he was gonna burst out laughing any second. Johnny used to love to get him going and telling stories about other musicians.

[guitarfool2002]

We cannot take that Spector appearance as the way Spector was with everyone. Do I think he acted that way with everyone? That judgement cannot be made fairly on a 10 minute TV appearance.

Of course....I was just speculating, thinking out loud, making a generalization.

Speaking of Johnny Carson and favorite guests who played a role....I used to love it when Buddy Rich was on. Buddy was a surly, obnoxious, sometimes crude guest, but you could almost see the tongue planted firmly in cheek, and you got the feeling he was gonna burst out laughing any second. Johnny used to love to get him going and telling stories about other musicians.

Yes! And Johnny was a drummer, too - he loved watching those guys. Buddy Rich is a great example, he played up the role when he'd come on, for laughs. But then that tape of him yelling at his musicians on the tour bus (NO BEARDS!) leaks out and the private Buddy may have been more obnoxious than the persona! 

I think you touched on something that Johnny had over any other host, and that was his ability to both host a show and be a regular person type of fan who would react like we would react to watching Buddy Rich drum or tell a jazz story, while not gushing and fawning over them. Merv - not to single him out - but Merv was a straightforward, old-guard showbiz host type and the audiences who stayed with him were drawn to that. I think celebs could feel safe on Merv's show because Merv was safe, unless Phil Spector was there...   Carson could appeal to everyone without coming off as trying too hard.

[Sheriff John Stone]

I think you touched on something that Johnny had over any other host, and that was his ability to both host a show and be a regular person type of fan who would react like we would react to watching Buddy Rich drum or tell a jazz story, while not gushing and fawning over them. Merv - not to single him out - but Merv was a straightforward, old-guard showbiz host type and the audiences who stayed with him were drawn to that. I think celebs could feel safe on Merv's show because Merv was safe, unless Phil Spector was there...  Carson could appeal to everyone without coming off as trying too hard.

There was another semi-frequent guest of Merv Griffin who probably felt "safe" on Merv's show and that was Orson Welles. While it was obvious that Merv adored Orson, Merv could also make jokes about Orson and his reputation, and make this legendary, misunderstood genius appear more human. I used to love their interviews.

[KittyKat]

wow... that was a sh*t piece of television if ever i saw it. they had not only Phil Spector but also Richard Pryor - two hugely talented people who are now considered to be legends in their respective fields... and that was the best they could do? i'm from the UK so excuse me for not really knowing who merv griffin is. it's one of those names you hear of from time to time but i wouldn't be able to tell you anything about him. But judging from that; what a lousy, uninteresting, charisma bereft host.


That was one of the most awkward things ive ever watched, and i'm a Brian Wilson fan.

Richard Pryor wasn't anything close to a legend back in the mid-'60s; he wasn't even famous. He was a very safe comedian back then who did nothing controversial in his act and you would have no hint that he ever would. He was mostly doing little nightclub gigs and appearing at times in tiny roles in TV sitcoms.  I don't think Merv or anyone else could get anything interesting out of Richard Pryor back then, and most people had never even heard of him at all, so there was no reason to show him any deference. 

I think the main awkwardness was having a guest in a second chair next to Merv at his desk. He didn't do that format later on and I wasn't aware he ever did that until seeing these black and white clips that have surfaced on YouTube. Later in his career, Merv was more obsequious than awkward.

[rn57]

Finally watched the clip, and indeed, it's evidently from someplace during a string of Spector appearances.

When Uncle Phil walks on the set the band plays Antonio Carlos Jobim's Insensatez aka How Insensitive. And Phil's response is to make a crack about them getting fired. He's evidently quite practiced in doing this kind of routine.

For a guy who seems to be winging it most of the time, Phil's delivery and timing would mostly do credit to a good second-string Borscht Belt funnyman. And speaking of the Borscht Belt, what about that business where Merv mishears "gross ignorance" as Grossinger's?  Was that scripted?

(Grossinger's was a very famous, in its time, resort in the now waterlogged Catskill Mountains of New York state, for those non-Americans and gentiles among you nowadays disinclined to look at Wikipedia because it now doesn't seem to work too good on mobile phones.)

Eartha really counterpunches skillfully, putting her trademark purr in her ripostes. Wally Cox seems to be trying to get a word in - usually he had better luck in these type of exchanges.  Merv, as us older folk well recall, just acts like 1960s Merv.  Richard Pryor is still in the middle of his Bill Cosby substitute stuff, though toward the end, when he does those peculiar vocalisms, you can see a glimpse of his ability to go into territory that wasn't typical Cos shtick.

I kept wondering where Merv's frequent '60s sidekick Arthur Treacher was.  (Treacher was the go-to actor for butler roles in '30s/'40s Hollywood - he once played Jeeves. By the '60s he was long in the tooth for such parts - it was his old pal Alan Napier who landed Alfred on Batman - but Merv was quite fond of juxtaposing his stately British persona against somebody like Monti Rock III or Baby Jane Holzer.) Guess he was tending to his string of fish and chips franchise eateries.

Now that Merv's vault is ready for licensing, I wonder when the strangest and wildest musical performance of all will make it to YouTube - the one that probably tops Syd Barrett meeting Pat Boone.  In 1968, Nico - yes, Nico - came on Merv's show.

Merv put Nico on because he wanted to know what had happened to 1966's Girl Of The Year - or I've read, anyway, that's how his intro went.  She walked on, sat down at a harmonium, and played a track from The Marble Index.  Hoo-eee - that's something you never would have seen on The Hollywood Palace, and it was a far cry from the stylings of the Masked Singer (aka future Starsky & Hutch star David Soul), a Merv favorite of the time.

 Nico then went to the couch and sat down. Merv asked her a question. She stared at him, not speaking. Another question. Another stare. Merv stopped in the middle of a third question and yelled to the booth that they had to go to a commercial. By the time the break was over, she was gone.  (People still don't believe that happened but it's discussed in at least one Nico biography and one or two big books about the Velvets.)

[halblaineisgood]

This thread prompted me to get out my ice cream man.

[KittyKat]

Finally watched the clip, and indeed, it's evidently from someplace during a string of Spector appearances.

When Uncle Phil walks on the set the band plays Antonio Carlos Jobim's Insensatez aka How Insensitive. And Phil's response is to make a crack about them getting fired. He's evidently quite practiced in doing this kind of routine.

For a guy who seems to be winging it most of the time, Phil's delivery and timing would mostly do credit to a good second-string Borscht Belt funnyman. And speaking of the Borscht Belt, what about that business where Merv mishears "gross ignorance" as Grossinger's?  Was that scripted?

(Grossinger's was a very famous, in its time, resort in the now waterlogged Catskill Mountains of New York state, for those non-Americans and gentiles among you nowadays disinclined to look at Wikipedia because it now doesn't seem to work too good on mobile phones.)

Eartha really counterpunches skillfully, putting her trademark purr in her ripostes. Wally Cox seems to be trying to get a word in - usually he had better luck in these type of exchanges.  Merv, as us older folk well recall, just acts like 1960s Merv.  Richard Pryor is still in the middle of his Bill Cosby substitute stuff, though toward the end, when he does those peculiar vocalisms, you can see a glimpse of his ability to go into territory that wasn't typical Cos shtick.

I kept wondering where Merv's frequent '60s sidekick Arthur Treacher was.  (Treacher was the go-to actor for butler roles in '30s/'40s Hollywood - he once played Jeeves. By the '60s he was long in the tooth for such parts - it was his old pal Alan Napier who landed Alfred on Batman - but Merv was quite fond of juxtaposing his stately British persona against somebody like Monti Rock III or Baby Jane Holzer.) Guess he was tending to his string of fish and chips franchise eateries.

Now that Merv's vault is ready for licensing, I wonder when the strangest and wildest musical performance of all will make it to YouTube - the one that probably tops Syd Barrett meeting Pat Boone.  In 1968, Nico - yes, Nico - came on Merv's show.

Merv put Nico on because he wanted to know what had happened to 1966's Girl Of The Year - or I've read, anyway, that's how his intro went.  She walked on, sat down at a harmonium, and played a track from The Marble Index.  Hoo-eee - that's something you never would have seen on The Hollywood Palace, and it was a far cry from the stylings of the Masked Singer (aka future Starsky & Hutch star David Soul), a Merv favorite of the time.

 Nico then went to the couch and sat down. Merv asked her a question. She stared at him, not speaking. Another question. Another stare. Merv stopped in the middle of a third question and yelled to the booth that they had to go to a commercial. By the time the break was over, she was gone.  (People still don't believe that happened but it's discussed in at least one Nico biography and one or two big books about the Velvets.)

Wow, that is interesting. I wonder if Merv had any connection to the Factory or other Warhol people? David Soul also hung out at The Factory.

[halblaineisgood]

Phil has an odd manner of communicating, but he is, or was, quite a genius, with a lot to communicate about music. His "blindfold" segment on the KHJ History Of Rock And Roll radio series still blows my mind, especially what he says about the Four Tops' Reach Out I'll Be There.
Also, when I met him, he was quite friendly, and willing to include a newcomer into his circle, for a friend of another trusted friend.

http://www.reelradio.com/  I assume this is where I'd find the Spector/Four Tops thing...It's gonna cost $20.00, seems worth it come payday. I'm  interested in those classic L.A. DJs...Huggy Boy. Humble Harve etc. There was funny story in Tearing Down The Wall Of Sound about Huggy Boy, who was having lunch at Phil's castle, and apparently he was really old and infirm, but Phil would still make him walk up this giant flight of stairs. Y' know, Instead of letting him be dropped off at the  door, as a sign of respect for the castle, or something.

[Custom Machine]

http://www.reelradio.com/  I assume this is where I'd find the Spector/Four Tops thing...It's gonna cost $20.00, seems worth it come payday. I'm  interested in those classic L.A. DJs...Huggy Boy. Humble Harve etc.

Definitely worth 20 bucks for an entire year of listening to classic airchecks, including the Spector segment on The History of Rock n Roll.

[puni puni]

Phil has an odd manner of communicating, but he is, or was, quite a genius, with a lot to communicate about music. His "blindfold" segment on the KHJ History Of Rock And Roll radio series still blows my mind, especially what he says about the Four Tops' Reach Out I'll Be There

Where do I hear this? Can't find it anywhere