after Holland, did it seem like they gave up?

[dwtherealbb]

In the "An American Family" miniseries, I found it interesting that it ended with them touring and playing their oldies as a "high note" to end on. Was the mentality sort of "This is as good as its gonna get so lets ride this for what its worth"? I think people blame Mike too much for destroying the group's creativity, but Carl and Dennis, despite being seen as more musically progressive, were equally as guilty.

[Cabinessenceking]

I think the primary reason for it was the overwhelming success of ES, that comp sold more than all their later albums put together. For finanical reasons it was better to rely on that for album sales and max profits by touring 24/7 for huge audiences. Remember they were struggling to earn a living by the late 60's and had only started redeeming themselves in the public image fairly recently with their early 70's albums and liveset. The touring obviously collided with any hopes of doing a real album project so the one attempt at the Caribou ranch was given up on. Only when ES and SoA had made their runs did the financial idea of putting out an album of newer material reemerge. This happened just as Brian fell out of his bed...

[Dave in KC]

What is SoA?

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Spirit of America

[EgoHanger1966]

I think you need to take the latter part of your sentence further. What did it seem like they gave up? Did they give up artistic album sides devoted to causes like ecology and the changing times? Yeah, a little bit, although elements of those themes could still be found in certain parts of their catalog. Did they give up trying to appeal to a certain market of record buyers? I would say yes to this one.

Did they give up making amazing music and keeping their fans satisfied? Hell no.

[runnersdialzero]

^^^ yerp. Overall, when you look at their material from 76 to the present, there's still a whole world full of the more creative side we saw in the late 60s and early 70s, it was (usually!) just commingled with stuff that was a bit more nostalgic and reminiscent of their earlier material.

[Ian]

Yes-they made some good music-but you have to be honest all the same-only a small fraction of the music made between 1976-1992 is in anyway comparable to the music they made i962-72.  But than again-hardly any of their contemporaries reached such heights again either.  McCartney put out some decent albums but nothing to rival the Beatle years, the Who were basically a spent force by Who Are You in 78, Rolling Stones had a late creative spurt with Some Girls and Tattoo You and than basically fell apart, the Kinks had long since stopped being consistent and had put out a series of fairly mediocre records...You are only twenty-two once and as more responsibilities pile up (family, kids) its hard to stay focused on the music

[Rocky Raccoon]

I think Still Cruisin' was when they really threw in the towel.  There are some decent songs on there but to make an album out of mostly previously released material, including songs that were over 20 years old, that pretty much said there wasn't much left in the Beach Boys creatively at that point.

[runnersdialzero]

I think Still Cruisin' was when they really threw in the towel.  There are some decent songs on there but to make an album out of mostly previously released material, including songs that were over 20 years old, that pretty much said there wasn't much left in the Beach Boys creatively at that point.

It wasn't so much "Let's record an album, but we don't have ideas, so let's include some hits" as "We have to put out an album with 'Kokomo' on it right now! Hey, let's just use a bunch of other songs used in films!" It was a compilation, basically.

[MBE]

I would say that's when they gave up trying to be current. A shame too.

[filledeplage]

Yes-they made some good music-but you have to be honest all the same-only a small fraction of the music made between 1976-1992 is in anyway comparable to the music they made i962-72.  But than again-hardly any of their contemporaries reached such heights again either.  McCartney put out some decent albums but nothing to rival the Beatle years, the Who were basically a spent force by Who Are You in 78, Rolling Stones had a late creative spurt with Some Girls and Tattoo You and than basically fell apart, the Kinks had long since stopped being consistent and had put out a series of fairly mediocre records...You are only twenty-two once and as more responsibilities pile up (family, kids) its hard to stay focused on the music

Creativity and inspiration are such imprecise factors, which come and go like the tides.  And the challenge is, how to stay balanced and have a sense of well-being so that the creative stuff flows.  We all have years of plenty and lean years in life. 

It might be less a function of "giving up" as much as the need to carve a niche, as your prime audience ages, and bring newer fans aboard.  Finding what works at each juncture can be such a challenge. 

It did seem that things seemed to gel for them this year, in an extraordinary way, and after they have rested and regrouped, we'll probably see some great stuff. 

Personally, I'd like to see exclusive authorship of work by them.  There have been works done pretty much by all that they might opt to record, as a group.  We'll see...

[Sheriff John Stone]

The three best songwriters in the Beach Boys were Brian, Dennis, and Carl Wilson. And, in keeping with the thread topic, they were also the most creative, artistic, and progressive. In my opinion, there was a direct correlation with drug abuse, alcoholism, and psychological problems and the decrease in the quality of the compositions, artistically speaking.

In the period following Holland, 1974-1977, Brian, Dennis, and Carl were still functioning at a very high level. Specifically, Love You and Pacific Ocean Blue are true works of art. And then the rot set in.

After 1976, and I think all of Love You and most of Pacific Ocean Blue were done by the end of 1976, there was decline. Slow at first, but decline nevertheless. The alcohol and the drugs and the mental issues took its toll for the rest of the 1970's. By the time Carl had cleaned up and wanted to resurrect the Beach Boys, Dennis was dead and Brian was permanently damaged by Landy. With those two "artists" basically gone, the game was over, at least with The Beach Boys. Carl made a few stabs at progressive-type songs, but his influence wasn't enough.

[MBE]

Yes-they made some good music-but you have to be honest all the same-only a small fraction of the music made between 1976-1992 is in anyway comparable to the music they made i962-72.  But than again-hardly any of their contemporaries reached such heights again either.  McCartney put out some decent albums but nothing to rival the Beatle years, the Who were basically a spent force by Who Are You in 78, Rolling Stones had a late creative spurt with Some Girls and Tattoo You and than basically fell apart, the Kinks had long since stopped being consistent and had put out a series of fairly mediocre records...You are only twenty-two once and as more responsibilities pile up (family, kids) its hard to stay focused on the music

You know I agree with you on this.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Disagree - after Holland they at least tried... and even after the release and success of Endless Summer (viz. the Caribou sessions).

[Exapno Mapcase]

Murry buying the farm didn't help.

[Nicko1234]

The three best songwriters in the Beach Boys were Brian, Dennis, and Carl Wilson.

Carl? Sorry but no.

First of all, lyricism is a part of songwriting. Morrissey is considered a songwriter after all and Bob Dylan`s lyrics are certainly a big part of why he is considered to be a top songwriter.

Secondly, even if you were only including the songs that Mike wrote solo (which would hardly be fair as Carl wrote nothing on his own) then the best stuff would still rival Carl`s.

[Disney Boy (1985)]

The three best songwriters in the Beach Boys were Brian, Dennis, and Carl Wilson.

Carl? Sorry but no.

First of all, lyricism is a part of songwriting. Morrissey is considered a songwriter after all and Bob Dylan`s lyrics are certainly a big part of why he is considered to be a top songwriter.

Secondly, even if you were only including the songs that Mike wrote solo (which would hardly be fair as Carl wrote nothing on his own) then the best stuff would still rival Carl`s.

Mike's best solo stuff rivals Long Promosed Road, Trader and Feel Flows... really? I love some of Mike's solo stuff both with the band (Big Sur) and without (Viggie), but nothing he did ever touched the exceptionally high standard of these trio of Carl songs. They really are three utterly stunning pieces of work.

[PaulTMA]

Not to try and negate your point, but Morrissey always writes the vocal melody in his songs, whereas  I'm sure Mike was only a sporadic contributor in that department with Brian.  His songwriting is held in higher regard (overall) in my house at least.

[tpesky]

In their defense, the country and American culture as a whole changed. Vietnam was over, Nixon's administration was falling apart, and then over. The whole country was looking back for innocence and comfort, not just the BB. It seemed the country as a whole had lost it's way.  An era had ended. People saw the BB as a way to feel comfortable and happy again. You can't blame the group for that.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

The three best songwriters in the Beach Boys were Brian, Dennis, and Carl Wilson.

Carl? Sorry but no.

First of all, lyricism is a part of songwriting. Morrissey is considered a songwriter after all and Bob Dylan`s lyrics are certainly a big part of why he is considered to be a top songwriter.

Secondly, even if you were only including the songs that Mike wrote solo (which would hardly be fair as Carl wrote nothing on his own) then the best stuff would still rival Carl`s.

Mike's best solo stuff rivals Long Promosed Road, Trader and Feel Flows... really? I love some of Mike's solo stuff both with the band (Big Sur) and without (Viggie), but nothing he did ever touched the exceptionally high standard of these trio of Carl songs. They really are three utterly stunning pieces of work.

Lyrics by one Rieley, Jack.

[rogerlancelot]

Sorry. I'd much rather listen to the instrumental demo of "Angel Come Home" over any version of "Big Sur" or "Viggie" any day!

[Rocky Raccoon]

I think Still Cruisin' was when they really threw in the towel.  There are some decent songs on there but to make an album out of mostly previously released material, including songs that were over 20 years old, that pretty much said there wasn't much left in the Beach Boys creatively at that point.

It wasn't so much "Let's record an album, but we don't have ideas, so let's include some hits" as "We have to put out an album with 'Kokomo' on it right now! Hey, let's just use a bunch of other songs used in films!" It was a compilation, basically.

That's still a pretty desperate move.   The whole songs from movies thing just seemed less like a theme and more of an excuse.  Compilation or not, it's still pretty pathetic.

[Mike's Beard]

Don't forget the departures of Blondie and Ricky. I know many are not huge fans of their own songs but you can't underestimate what they added to the other's songs from that creative period. When they left the BB's lost the 'grit' from their sound.

[Yorick]

While listening to MIU this morning I wondered if there were any Beach Boys fans who were of the opinion that after 15 Big Ones and Love You this was their real comeback album? I'm not saying that's my opinion, but I can easily see lots of fans preferring songs like Kuna Coast to Johnny Carson. I love Matchpoint Of Our Love, My Diane and Pitter Patter.

[El Molé]

I can see that it might seem like they gave up, but I don't think they did. I think they carried on trying to have hit albums right the way through to '85 and possibly even through to SIP. So maybe it depends on what they gave up. After Holland, they tried bringing back Brian to produce an album but 15 Big Ones might not have been what they had in mind. Love You followed that and is a fantastic album but probably wasn't the hit they wanted. I'm not sure what happened with Adult Child, but it's a better 'album' than MIU and so it seems that either Brian withdrew himself, or Al/Mike decided to try a different path with MIU. MIU sounds a bit like everyone had given up (poor songs, poor vocals, poor production) but I think it was probably the best that those present could muster. That didn't work either and we ended up with Bruce and LA, which I think is a better album than MIU but still isn't commercial and not much of an artistic statement. But they were still trying and I think that's evidenced by the different approaches to creating albums and very specifically by the misjudged foray into disco. It's harder to say exactly what they were trying to do, but they certainly were trying and they still were during KTSA and '85 (where again, they tried a different approach).

In my view, they'd had a period of trying to create great albums (up to Holland) that the public weren't interested in. They were using new technologies and trying different approaches musically, but the environment was just wrong. Wild honey through to Holland is probably my favourite stretch of Beach Boys albums, but they weren't successful commercially. If I'd been one of the group through that period, putting my heart and soul into creating music that I thought was great, I'd have felt the surge in popularity centred on Endless Summer and the 'oldies' as a quite demoralising. For me, the big change after Holland is that Dennis' creativity became largely absent from the Beach Boys as recording artists. Dennis eventually became consumed by other things, but for a time in the mid-70's I think the group could really have re-found some commercial recording success if Dennis had been established as lead writer/producer with support from the group. I don't know if he could have held that role or if he'd have wanted to, but I doubt the group would have let him. With the benefit of hindsight, I think that's where it went wrong and it might be that Dennis did give up as a recording Beach Boy at some point in the mid-70's.