after Holland, did it seem like they gave up?

[Disney Boy (1985)]

Re Carl or Mike. Five letters: Tune X.

Carl, every time.

[adamghost]

The last three songs are the best post Holland Beach Boys work.  FTTBA is among my 15 favorite Beach Boy songs.

I'm glad you like it...I don't get any pleasure from finding it unlistenabl. I can imagine that one Al sings being great, in another dimension, where they just recorded his voice, rather than tuning the piss out of it.

Very well said.

[BergenWhitesMoustache]

Re Carl or Mike. Five letters: Tune X.

Carl, every time.

Ah, cmon- REALLY? It's just some bog standard chords that happen to be played on strings...it's nothing, it's not a song, it's just Carl having a go at 'doing a track'.

If you want to pick one track to go 'TRUMP CARD' with, it's Big Sur all the way. It's a damned good song. Mike may be a pantomine villain, but he nailed it with that one. It's worthy of Neil Young or Gene Clark.

[Mike's Beard]

They were all talented in their own unique, individual way. Nobody in the Beach Boys got a free ride, they all brought something to the table.

[Disney Boy (1985)]

Re Carl or Mike. Five letters: Tune X.

Carl, every time.

Ah, cmon- REALLY? It's just some bog standard chords that happen to be played on strings...it's nothing, it's not a song, it's just Carl having a go at 'doing a track'.

If you want to pick one track to go 'TRUMP CARD' with, it's Big Sur all the way. It's a damned good song. Mike may be a pantomine villain, but he nailed it with that one. It's worthy of Neil Young or Gene Clark.

Did you suspect i might have been joking a tad? Although i do think Tune X is great, particuarly the catchy twangy guitar riff on the fade, but obviously i wasn't serious about using it as a trump card.

Although if i were to pick a trump card to successfully fart all over Big Sur, then i'd say Feel Flows and/or Long Promised Road are both superior. Love Big Sur, prefer and more highly rate Carl's Surf's Up tracks. And Trader is the best track on Holland.

[AndrewHickey]

EXACTLY!  Love You is not only a great album, it was the LAST good Beach Boys album and the last Beach Boys album worth getting.

I dont' 100% agree, basically because of the Bambu tracks on LA, but yeah...Love You is definitely the last AWESOME Beach Boys record, for me.

Have we got the point where we can admit TWGMTR was an unlistenable, autotuned mess yet? B/W I've been smashing the f*** out of 'Chain Reaction of Love' recently. I really wish they'd come through with that proposed '96 lp...that could have been awesome.

Agreed with all this, though I think you're being harsh on That's Why God Made The Radio. There's some good stuff on there (Isn't It Time, Bill & Sue, From There To Back Again, Shelter, Strange World) but I have to make a real effort to listen past the godawful autotuning, nasty drum sound and other Joe Thomasisms in the production to appreciate them. It's the best Beach Boys album since LA, but not half the album it could have been.

[bonnevillemariner]

I have my criticisms of TWGMTR (too "echoey," Mike's voice weak and buried in the mix, Foskett's performance is subpar, etc.), but the autotune strangely isn't one of them.  I agree that it could have been better overall, but I love this album.  It didn't have to grow on me as some of the 70's material has had to. 

[Nicko1234]

Did you suspect i might have been joking a tad? Although i do think Tune X is great, particuarly the catchy twangy guitar riff on the fade, but obviously i wasn't serious about using it as a trump card.

Although if i were to pick a trump card to successfully fart all over Big Sur, then i'd say Feel Flows and/or Long Promised Road are both superior. Love Big Sur, prefer and more highly rate Carl's Surf's Up tracks. And Trader is the best track on Holland.

Mike's trump cards are of having co-written classics like Warmth of the Sun, Good Vibrations, California Girls and dozens of others though...

Carl having co-written Feel Flows, Long Promised Road and Trader (3 songs?!?) doesn't compare...

[Magic Transistor Radio]

I think that, even thought the Beach Boys lost their creative edge after Holland, there was an effort to remain current sounding up through Kokamo. They really haven't surpassed that sound much. A few songs on TWGMTR do have some of TLOS creativity though. But as cheesy as Still Cruisin and BB85 might have been, they still fit in with the times. SIP and TWGMTR are mostly dated sounding. Except, I agree the last 3 songs are timeless.

[NHC]

They were all talented in their own unique, individual way. Nobody in the Beach Boys got a free ride, they all brought something to the table.

Correct and to the point.

[BergenWhitesMoustache]

Did you suspect i might have been joking a tad? Although i do think Tune X is great, particuarly the catchy twangy guitar riff on the fade, but obviously i wasn't serious about using it as a trump card.

Nope...there are people on here who think 'Make it Good' sucks, ffs...nothing would surprise me!

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I used to feel the same way, but it grew on me. Nobody though will ever get me to like 'Don't Hurt My Little Sister'.

[MBE]

Well basically Billy is right in what I was trying to say about Carl. Not that he didn't work hard or try to put The Beach Boys best foot forward, but he came to a point where he stopped fighting for it to be anything other than a pretty lame version of The Beach Boys. Politics, health, his change in taste in the mid seventies, hard drugs in the mid to late seventies, this all put him away from the way he was going from 1961-73. How and why The Beach Boys didn't continue to so the nice mix of old and new is complex, but the blend from 1973-75, fall 1993, and 2012 should never have been deviated from. Mike may have lacked the ability to see that until the early 2000's but Carl had to have realized it.

The basic thing to remember is that something changed in every Beach Boys over the course of the seventies. As the decade dawned even Brian was still in good enough shape to performing and writing at a brilliant level. Over the course of the decade only Dennis held his own in the studio, but as early as 1977 he wasn't the same on stage, and after early 1979 he didn't do anything with much follow through  in the studio that I can think of. I think Dennis added a lot to the shows through 1976 and had he stayed healthy Carl would have had help keep the balance.

My original post only brought all this up to make clear that Mike deserves blame for the oldies route, but not solely. Second I wanted to point out that what happened after Holland in no way negated how important Mike was up to then and that he made more of a mark than Carl as a songwriter.

[Peter Reum]

Well...with respect to The Beach Boys...Brian's role as primary producer lasted about 6 years. Carl's role as primary producer also lasted 6 years. Perhaps that is just how long someone could last producing the Beach Boys. I would say it was analagous to "herding cats."

[MBE]

Well...with respect to The Beach Boys...Brian's role as primary producer lasted about 6 years. Carl's role as primary producer also lasted 6 years. Perhaps that is just how long someone could last producing the Beach Boys. I would say it was analagous to "herding cats."

Good point!

[kookadams]

I would say the most important aspect to consider here is how consistent musically they were from their heyday to the progressive period to the mid 70s where the nostalgia factor took over. 62 to 65 they were busting out records like crazy and even  tho they had a schtick for the most part it was constantly evolving to where Pet Sounds and Good Vibrations peaked. And its very important to consider the huge shift rock made from the single being the emphasis to the album. From Pet Sounds onward each album was very much its own entity- they all had their own sound. Then when they had that gap of no new material and their golden era put them back on top they rode a new wave of success. Also cant forget that the 70s was a very excessive era and rock no longer had that genuine quality of what it once was. Plus after Love You all their remaining albums til Dennis' passing were made up of songs from previous sessions and whatnot, the consistency and quality of the material was definitely defunct. 

[Jukka]

Did they give up, or did they finally succeed in what they were trying with their progressive albums, aka trying to be succesful. When they finally got the stadiums and millions, the finally reached the place they were trying to get to since the late 60's. In a way that's not giving up. They made it, and the pressure was off.

[kookadams]

Did they give up, or did they finally succeed in what they were trying with their progressive albums, aka trying to be succesful. When they finally got the stadiums and millions, the finally reached the place they were trying to get to since the late 60's. In a way that's not giving up. They made it, and the pressure was off.

True.

[Lonely Summer]

If I were in their shoes, I think I, too, would've grown frustrated with trying to get the audience interested in the more mature sounds when the masses only wanted oldies, oldies, oldies. Or new songs that sounded like the oldies. Remember, we are the die-hards here. We represent only a small fraction of the folks that bought Beach Boys records, attended the concerts, etc. I see every act eventually cave in to what their audience wants.

[Mike's Beard]

Did they give up, or did they finally succeed in what they were trying with their progressive albums, aka trying to be succesful. When they finally got the stadiums and millions, the finally reached the place they were trying to get to since the late 60's. In a way that's not giving up. They made it, and the pressure was off.

Commercially and financially 1973 was a godsend. Artistically it was not. Their newfound level of success was down to a comp album of decade old material. The band and Warner Bros should have seized the opportunity and started a new promotional push for Holland/new single tie in to show the re interested masses what they were about now not 1964.

[kookadams]

Thats true. Some people get it and others dont but the key factor to the lack of commercial success in those post- Pet Sounds albums is the lack of promotion from capitol and warner bros. The music was great but the record company wasnt doing their job!

I mean Thats why god made the radio is a solid album, it aint great but it sold well for a number of reasons, namely the anticipation of it being the first new Beach Boys album since 1985 to include Brian, the commemoration of their 50th anniversary AND there was press and media giving it attention! All those factors combined made it a number 3 smash!

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Did they give up, or did they finally succeed in what they were trying with their progressive albums, aka trying to be succesful. When they finally got the stadiums and millions, the finally reached the place they were trying to get to since the late 60's. In a way that's not giving up. They made it, and the pressure was off.

I agree.... And aren't goals things to be achieved? What's wrong with setting out to be a huge, gigantic successful band and taking some time to enjoy having reached that peak? So, you bust out a bunch of your biggest, earth shattering hits for the fans live? So what? All the hidden nuggets are on all the old albums at home. Even better is they toss a few of them into the live mix, but it's not do or die....

I don't think the Beach Boys ever gave up and still haven't. Things got a bit confused and from BBs 85 to TWGMTR they might have basically given up a bit, but it didn't last.