The Beach Boys + Wikipedia = Wrinkles

[Quzi]

I'm taking the pledge to fix it goshdarnit. Half the reason the back catalogue doesn't get the adulation it deserves is because there's absolutely no effort put towards making anyone take note of it on the internet. When I became a Beach Boys fan after listening to Pet Sounds, I consulted Wikipedia as to where to head next and holy moly, did I find some of the nadir of Wikipedia. Are you guys aware that Summer Days (And Summer Nights!!) has anecdotes like

"Of course there had to be a little silliness on the album, and it was saved almost to the end with the tongue-in-cheek "I'm Bugged at My Ol' Man", a none-too-subtle poke at the Wilsons' father Murry, who had been fired from his post as manager the previous year, though he did still occasionally show up to either support, or badger, Brian in the studio."

Also, I just noted that none of the albums bar Pet Sounds have a Personnel list for all the musicians who played on the record, which is doing a whole lot to dispel the rumour that the guys couldn't play their instruments

Anyway, I think a huge cleanup would not only be beneficial for the band and their image, but it'd also help us fans to get the information we keep repeating here on Wikipedia. If we show the head honchos at Wikipedia HQ we're a fanbase who means business, perhaps we can finally start broadening the depth of individual pages for songs, bootlegs, etc. If we can't get our own wikia up and running, this seems like our second best option.

So who else is willing to help here and there and make this a reality?!

[runnersdialzero]

Perhaps we can get started on that wiki of our own as to ensure info is actually preserved instead of being swiftly deleted for not being "notable". Meanwhile, every Beatles song ever has its own article and every modern throwaway single has its own wiki article because it's happening now and is thus more "notable" somehow.

Also, the personnel list is likely there for Pet Sounds but not others due to the available personnel list for that album being much more comprehensive than others. Because Paul said it was the best and therefore its more important than all their other albums and we gotta get that sh*t right, folks.

Also, some time ago, a guy edited Dennis' article to exclude mention of him playing on albums etc. because "Hal Blaine played on all Beach Boys albums, not Dennis". Pathetic.

[Quzi]

Perhaps we can get started on that wiki of our own as to ensure info is actually preserved instead of being swiftly deleted for not being "notable". Meanwhile, every Beatles song ever has its own article and every modern throwaway single has its own wiki article because it's happening now and is thus more "notable" somehow.

Also, the personnel list is likely there for Pet Sounds but not others due to the available personnel list for that album being much more comprehensive than others. Because Paul said it was the best and therefore its more important than all their other albums and we gotta get that sh*t right, folks.

Also, some time ago, a guy edited Dennis' article to exclude mention of him playing on albums etc. because "Hal Blaine played on all Beach Boys albums, not Dennis". Pathetic.

I think if there's a high quality across the board for the  band's articles, there'd be a greater chance that the content we want to add would be considered notable under the eye of Wikipedia though. I don't blame 'em for shooting down some Beach Boys articles, related articles on the site don't really paint the band as being anything remotely notable or deserving of them unfortunately. But yeah, they are definitely ridiculous when it comes to certain things like the Dennis situation you mentioned above. And it sucks because you can't even tell them to "Wikipedia" it BECAUSE THEY ARE WIKIPEDIA.

[Jason]

Good luck with that...you'll probably have morons fact-checking everything against Brian's psuedobiography.

[runnersdialzero]

Perhaps we can get started on that wiki of our own as to ensure info is actually preserved instead of being swiftly deleted for not being "notable". Meanwhile, every Beatles song ever has its own article and every modern throwaway single has its own wiki article because it's happening now and is thus more "notable" somehow.

Also, the personnel list is likely there for Pet Sounds but not others due to the available personnel list for that album being much more comprehensive than others. Because Paul said it was the best and therefore its more important than all their other albums and we gotta get that sh*t right, folks.

Also, some time ago, a guy edited Dennis' article to exclude mention of him playing on albums etc. because "Hal Blaine played on all Beach Boys albums, not Dennis". Pathetic.

I think if there's a high quality across the board for the  band's articles, there'd be a greater chance that the content we want to add would be considered notable under the eye of Wikipedia though. I don't blame 'em for shooting down some Beach Boys articles, related articles on the site don't really paint the band as being anything remotely notable or deserving of them unfortunately. But yeah, they are definitely ridiculous when it comes to certain things like the Dennis situation you mentioned above. And it sucks because you can't even tell them to "Wikipedia" it BECAUSE THEY ARE WIKIPEDIA.

Even articles of quality for songs that were singles were deleted. Again, comparing it to some of the stuff that does qualify as "notable" solely because it's a single released today instead of being released 30 years ago just doesn't pan out in my mind.

[MaxL]

Also, I just noted that none of the albums bar Pet Sounds have a Personnel list for all the musicians who played on the record, which is doing a whole lot to dispel the rumour that the guys couldn't play their instruments

Anyway, I think a huge cleanup would not only be beneficial for the band and their image, but it'd also help us fans to get the information we keep repeating here on Wikipedia. If we show the head honchos at Wikipedia HQ we're a fanbase who means business, perhaps we can finally start broadening the depth of individual pages for songs, bootlegs, etc. If we can't get our own wikia up and running, this seems like our second best option.

So who else is willing to help here and there and make this a reality?!

Actually some of the other albums do have full personnel listings where available. I added the lists for "15 Big Ones" and the 1985 album (and thankfully no one's felt like deleting them... yet) but there are still a few that have the information missing because they aren't as simple as transcribing the liner notes.

But I agree with everything else and I've made a few enemies among the Wikipedia users for the very reasons discussed here.

[runnersdialzero]

It's just brimming with irrational bullies who police specific pages (which is supposed to be against the rules, but no one seems to give a sh*t). It's really weird and unpleasant to deal with, especially when you're just trying to be helpful and contribute. There really aren't many of those types around these parts, so I think doing our own thing would be a good time.

[Cabinessenceking]

It's just brimming with irrational bullies who police specific pages (which is supposed to be against the rules, but no one seems to give a sh*t). It's really weird and unpleasant to deal with, especially when you're just trying to be helpful and contribute. There really aren't many of those types around these parts, so I think doing our own thing would be a good time.

Is it possible someone can get one of the deals where editing by others is blocked? many Beatle songs and other key events are like that. I'm not saying all Beach Boys songs should have this, but certainly the main article and albums should have this?

[Dunderhead]

I think for a Beach Boys wiki we need a few general things:

1. Biographies of all band members and associates, basically the Beach Boys, all their relevant family members, all of the key collaborators, technical staff, backing players etc, and all the important friends of the group. Maybe also content for articles about the different recording studios and whatnot.

2. The sessionography and livedate information available on AGD's site.

3. A complete discography, at least a list of every distinct single, album, live, and compilation release, but ideally a list of every released and unreleased song, and better yet, a list of every label variation and version of every official outing as well.

4. Profile information for every recorded song, whether it was officially or unofficially released, or is only known to exist. The date(s) it was recorded. It's writer(s) and producer(s). A list of players who preformed on it. The date it was released in different countries. Relevant chart information whenever available. The different versions of that song that may be available, i.e. the different mixes and takes that are floating around on compilations and bootlegs. Also, it'd be nice to include information about length, key, basic songfacts like that. And then to put the whole thing together, a description of any anecdotes or biographical information that's out there about the track.


I think that would be a pretty basic BB wiki, when all the articles are cross-referenced. I think we could also import some things from Smiley, the definite vocal credits thread for one, the interview scan thread in the media section for another.

If we could come up with a whole list of everything that needs an article, and then all volunteer to write a few articles each using all the info out there in books and on the web, we could get a wiki together that would be really useful.

[stack-o-tracks]

okay so i had this idea, since smileysmile.net just links to this board, why not donate a ton of money to the site and see if we can turn it into the wiki/board of all time.

it's already a high traffic site, if post a couple small banner google ads on the articles and there's a bit of revenue. we just need the pages set up to add & edit articles. have users create accounts to edit articles so there's not a bunch of that wikipedia bs going on.

pages for all the songs and session musicians who dont have their own wikipedia pages. etc.

[Lowbacca]

We had mused about a BBs wiki a couple of times before, and I still think it's a great idea. Gonna be a hell of a lot of work, though. Still, I'd be happy to contribute where I can.

Some old threads:

    
Creating a Wikipedia-style BeachBoys timeline
    
Could someone brush up The Beach Boys on Wikipedia?

Anyone interested in getting a Beach Boys wiki going?

[Andrew G. Doe]

3. A complete discography, at least a list of every distinct single, album, live, and compilation release, but ideally a list of every released and unreleased song, and better yet, a list of every label variation and version of every official outing as well.

With the exception of every compilation released - which I seriously doubt is possible to document - and the label variations (found elsewhere), sounds like 10452.  

4. Profile information for every recorded song, whether it was officially or unofficially released, or is only known to exist. The date(s) it was recorded. It's writer(s) and producer(s). A list of players who preformed on it. The date it was released in different countries. Relevant chart information whenever available. The different versions of that song that may be available, i.e. the different mixes and takes that are floating around on compilations and bootlegs. Also, it'd be nice to include information about length, key, basic songfacts like that. And then to put the whole thing together, a description of any anecdotes or biographical information that's out there about the track.

Again, the bulk of that's on Bellagio already (highlighted). Not blowing my own trumpet - OK, so I am - but this is what's on 10452 as stands:

Timeline 1917-2012
US discography (release date, chart position. catalog number, if pic sleeve, if single different from album version)
UK discography (ditto)
US week-by-week chart positions (including AC and country charts)
UK week-by-week chart positions (including EP charts)
Gigs & sessions dates year by year 1961-2000, summarised 2001-2012
Brian's solo dates
RIAA & BPS awards
Album archive (track listing, producers, song  credits & lead vocals, recording dates, reissue info)
Unreleased/unrealised albums
Unreleased songs (band & solo)
Brian & Carl's extra-BB productions
Bruce discography 1959-2006
Guesting of other artists songs
Mono/stereo versions and where to find them
Odds and ends
Alan's early musical adventures
Basic Jan & Dean discography 1958-1968

A reasonable foundation ?

[Dunderhead]

AGD, you know I love your site, I use it all the time. What it really misses is hyperlinking all the information together. It'd be nice to go to a single article on a specific song and see all the relevant information on one page.

[Lowbacca]

AGD, you know I love your site, I use it all the time. What it really misses is hyperlinking all the information together. It'd be nice to go to a single article on a specific song and see all the relevant information on one page.

I wholeheartedly agree - about AGD's tremendous site (!) and also about the need for crosslinked information beneath a wiki-esque interface.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Anyone wants to do a wiki based on the info collected in 10452, sounds like a fine idea. Just don't do a Badman on me, huh ? 

[runnersdialzero]

Anyone wants to do a wiki based on the info collected in 10452, sounds like a fine idea. Just don't do a Badman on me, huh ? 

Glad to have your blessing if such a thing ever comes to fruition. Obviously you'd be given credit. ^_^

I've tried a few times now to get this off the ground myself and failed horribly. About ten years ago I was known to be fairly tech savvy, but those days have long passed anyone decent with a such a thing?

[Rocky Raccoon]

Well, I gave us a starting point if anyone's interested.  It's not really anything right now but maybe we can all get ourselves involved and make it something.

http://smileysmile.wikia.com/wiki/The_Beach_Boys_Wiki

[runnersdialzero]

Well, I gave us a starting point if anyone's interested.  It's not really anything right now but maybe we can all get ourselves involved and make it something.

http://smileysmile.wikia.com/wiki/The_Beach_Boys_Wiki

ooooggGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Andrew G. Doe]

Well, I gave us a starting point if anyone's interested.  It's not really anything right now but maybe we can all get ourselves involved and make it something.

http://smileysmile.wikia.com/wiki/The_Beach_Boys_Wiki

Needs work. 

[runnersdialzero]

This formatting is strange and totally unfamiliar to me.

[Paulos]

This formatting is strange and totally unfamiliar to me.

I have no idea regarding formatting but will be of much help as is possible, I created 2 pages already!

[Quzi]

  It's great to see work on the smileysmile wikia finally being undertaken ^_^ on the other side of the world, I think I can say I've made a strong start on turning The Beach Boys on Wikipedia around. I've started uploading more accurate covers, adding studios used, personnel, sources etc. etc. At the moment, I'm adjusting the "album chronology" list to the "studio album chronology" list (if you don't know what I'm talking about, have a look at the infobox on the right http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pet_Sounds ). Before, Wikipedia stated the album after "Per Sounds" was "The Best of the Beach Boys Vol.1" then "The Best of the Beach Boys Vol.2" then "Smiley Smile". It's correct, but few Wikipedia readers would care about those two best of albums imo. It'd be like sandwiching "A Collection of Beatles Oldies" between "Revolver" and "Sgt. Pepper's".

[Rocky Raccoon]

I would argue that even though the first three "Best of the Beach Boys" albums are certainly inessential, they should remain as part of the Beach Boys canon.  Otherwise, 20/20 would be 17/17.

[Theydon Bois]

I would argue that even though the first three "Best of the Beach Boys" albums are certainly inessential, they should remain as part of the Beach Boys canon.  Otherwise, 20/20 would be 17/17.

I'm not sure that making all of the numbers add up is such a big deal in a world that contains 1976's "15 Big Ones", 1993's "Good Vibrations: Thirty Years of the Beach Boys" and 2012's "50 Big Ones".

[Paulos]

Does anyone know just how the f*** you are supposed to edit the f***ing things? I've just spent half an hour trying to put some info into an infobox but it won't save! f***!