Mike Love dedicated his career to being a jerk

[smilethebeachboysloveyou]

Where it gets complicated, though, is the fact that Mike decided to claim credit for songs he wasn't involved with writing, such as "Wouldn't It Be Nice."  I don't know why he thought it was a good idea to try to get credit for songs he wasn't involved in writing (whether he thought it was an interest payment on all the years he wasn't credited for songs he had written), but that unfortunate decision is partly responsible for his litigious reputation.  The author of the original article takes the case out of context, though, and implies that all of the songwriting credits Mike claimed were phony when most of them were not.  Certainly Mike has helped to create a nasty reputation for himself at times, but there are some pretty egregious double standards at work.  Each of the surviving original members has sued at least one other original member, but somehow only Mike has the reputation for being litigious.

What songs other than "Wouldn't It Be Nice?" were there? I've only seen that one mentioned when it comes to songs he claimed he helped with and didn't. Maybe I missed something, but isn't "WIBN?" still uncertain? I wouldn't have demanded a credit for something as simple as "Good night, baby, sleep tight, baby" but then like you said, maybe wanting credit for something so minor was a way to get an "interest payment" of sorts. Or maybe he wrote the melody along with the words for those couple lines too, or maybe he really did feel that those couple lines warranted a credit. It is, after all, proof in Mike's favor against the whole "Mike hated Pet Sounds and wanted nothing to do with it" thing.

I guess I don't honestly know whether any of the other songs were not co-written by Mike.  According to Catch A Wave, Mike or his attorneys tried to argue that Brian was consulting Mike for lyrics while pretending to go to the bathroom when Tony Asher testified that Mike wasn't involved in the writing.  I guess it's possible, but it sounds quite dubious.

Regarding Mike's thoughts on Pet Sounds, according to Tony Asher himself Mike wasn't particularly fond of it and told Brian "not to **** with the formula."  That doesn't mean he tried to sabotage it, and indeed he has some great vocal parts on the record, and one of the songs that he was involved in writing ("I'M Waiting for the Day") is one of my favorites on the album.  His dislike of the album is probably exaggerated in some circles, but the rumors didn't come from nowhere.

[Cam Mott]

Maybe Brian was a little leary of suing someone over songwriting credit when he was guilty of it himself.

[lance]

I believe he had a hand in all those songs, and wouldn't it be nice's contribution was no more than the good night sleep tight bit at the end.

Some of those songs I think he deserves a lot of credit, maybe 30 percent, if he wrote half the lyrics(as I believe he did on, say, Surfin' safari.) Others he might have written the whole lyric(good to my baby...) But sometimes I think he reworte or touched up what was there. All this deserves credit; but I don't believe that it was a Lennon/McCartney in terms of what they both brought. I think Brian brought more in general to those songs, with some exceptions...

[EthanJames]

I think this whole thing is getting way out of hand with this whole thing about Mike Love, we should just stop arguing about this and move on, we all knew that the 50th anniversary tour wouldn't last for long, I think Mike actually wanted John Stamos back actually 
But in all truthfulness, I feel he shouldn't be talking negatively of ML as I stated above, we all knew he was going to tour with Bruce, but it just happened so quickly and everyone was just enjoying (or some) the great reunion tour that occurred this year. And the whole situation between him co-writing the songs is pretty much like this, Murrary possibly didn't like Mike Love (which is understandable) and felt he didn't deserve any credit whatsoever, Brian probably didn't feel Mike deserve any credit either cause of what Mike has said of his work on stuff like Pet Soundd and Smile and plus of Mikes ego and ad well as other things, that's pretty much what I think of it.

[Cam Mott]

So in other words: Brian's guilty = meh?

[Jason]

Dude...your hatred of the man is frightening, to be honest. Frightening in the "you belong in a padded room" sense.

This guy is a moderator? Seriously?

If you have a problem you can take it to PMs.

[KittyKat]

I believe he had a hand in all those songs, and wouldn't it be nice's contribution was no more than the good night sleep tight bit at the end.

Some of those songs I think he deserves a lot of credit, maybe 30 percent, if he wrote half the lyrics(as I believe he did on, say, Surfin' safari.) Others he might have written the whole lyric(good to my baby...) But sometimes I think he reworte or touched up what was there. All this deserves credit; but I don't believe that it was a Lennon/McCartney in terms of what they both brought. I think Brian brought more in general to those songs, with some exceptions...

From what was posted in other forums long ago, Mike was willing to settle out of court for $700,000 and credits on a smaller list of songs.  His main concern was getting a credit on "California Girls" and a few other big hits. Since Brian's lawyers perhaps unwisely decided to press a suit, Mike gave a deposition and recalled other songs.  I'm not sure if he got 50% songwriting credit for "Wouldn't It Be Nice" or a smaller percentage. His name now appears next to Tony Asher and Brian Wilson, but it's quite possible he gets less than even 33% for that song.  He may get less than 50% royalties for others. 

There is an account somewhere on the Internet from someone who went to the trial and had all the details of the court appearances and even some follow up with Mike Love's lawyers after the suit. The guy wrote the account was just a fan and he was in Brian's corner, but came away from the trial thinking Mike did have a case and Brian would have been better off financially and otherwise if he'd just settled out of court for less than a million dollars. Instead, he lost millions in legal fees on top of what he lost to Mike. Mike's lawyers thought Brian's lawyers were ripping him off.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

It's nice to see this being discussed from a balanced perspective as Klingsor suggested.

I think what it boils down to really, and all it boils down to is: Mike Love is "The Mike Love" of The Beach Boys.....

[Cam Mott]

I believe he had a hand in all those songs, and wouldn't it be nice's contribution was no more than the good night sleep tight bit at the end.

Some of those songs I think he deserves a lot of credit, maybe 30 percent, if he wrote half the lyrics(as I believe he did on, say, Surfin' safari.) Others he might have written the whole lyric(good to my baby...) But sometimes I think he reworte or touched up what was there. All this deserves credit; but I don't believe that it was a Lennon/McCartney in terms of what they both brought. I think Brian brought more in general to those songs, with some exceptions...

From what was posted in other forums long ago, Mike was willing to settle out of court for $700,000 and credits on a smaller list of songs.  His main concern was getting a credit on "California Girls" and a few other big hits. Since Brian's lawyers perhaps unwisely decided to press a suit, Mike gave a deposition and recalled other songs.  I'm not sure if he got 50% songwriting credit for "Wouldn't It Be Nice" or a smaller percentage. His name now appears next to Tony Asher and Brian Wilson, but it's quite possible he gets less than even 33% for that song.  He may get less than 50% royalties for others. 

There is an account somewhere on the Internet from someone who went to the trial and had all the details of the court appearances and even some follow up with Mike Love's lawyers after the suit. The guy wrote the account was just a fan and he was in Brian's corner, but came away from the trial thinking Mike did have a case and Brian would have been better off financially and otherwise if he'd just settled out of court for less than a million dollars. Instead, he lost millions in legal fees on top of what he lost to Mike. Mike's lawyers thought Brian's lawyers were ripping him off.

As I remember Mike didn't stipulate any percentages, or damages beyond his offer of a very low ball settlement, he presented evidence for his contributions and the jury awarded percentage and damages.

[Jason]

Yeah...the "Mike Love is greedy" argument falls apart once people actually learn the story of Michael's attempt at a mere cash settlement and future credit...or at least it should.

[Jonathan Blum]

what kinds of forums are you people going to where the moderators get selected by how nice they are?

It's not about nice, so much as that generally you expect moderators to be, well, moderate.  :-)

Personally I think the "Brianista" label gets flung about with wild abandon here, and that's not a good thing -- there's a huge difference between "Mike Love is an ass" and "Brian Wilson is a saint and all the others are irrelevant", and I don't like lumping the two of them together.  Personally I don't hold either one of those opinions, but I can easily see how someone could hold one without the other!

Cheers,
Jon Blum

[shelter]

Regarding Mike's thoughts on Pet Sounds, according to Tony Asher himself Mike wasn't particularly fond of it and told Brian "not to **** with the formula."  That doesn't mean he tried to sabotage it, and indeed he has some great vocal parts on the record, and one of the songs that he was involved in writing ("I'M Waiting for the Day") is one of my favorites on the album.  His dislike of the album is probably exaggerated in some circles, but the rumors didn't come from nowhere.

I don't think it's that complicated. As someone wrote earlier, Mike is not an artist, he's an entertainer, and it's not like he ever tried to keep that a secret. Brian wants to create art, Mike wants to sell a product. And from his commercial point of view, the way I suppose he saw it, it's understandable that he wasn't too sure if releasing this entire new product (Pet Sounds) was a smart move for the company that he co-owned (The Beach Boys). But that doesn't necessarily say anything about his personal opinion about the album as a work of art. If he says he loves it, than I have no reason to not believe him.

[AndrewHickey]

[  I'm not sure if he got 50% songwriting credit for "Wouldn't It Be Nice" or a smaller percentage. His name now appears next to Tony Asher and Brian Wilson, but it's quite possible he gets less than even 33% for that song.  He may get less than 50% royalties for others. 

I read a while ago, in a fairly reliable source (but can't remember which one, only that I trusted it), that Mike was given an equal share of royalties split by the number of authors. That's the main reason the Wouldn't It Be Nice credit is considered unjust -- Tony Asher wrote the whole lyric originally, but the royalties for all the Pet Sounds songs were split 75-25 in Brian's favour, because Brian supposedly wrote all the music and half the lyrics. That meant that when Mike was given a 33% split, the royalties ended up going 50% Brian - 33% Mike - 17% Tony Asher. Which given that *at most* Mike wrote the two lines "good night baby/sleep tight baby" while Asher wrote the whole rest of the lyric (and still claims to have written those two lines as well) seems more than a little unfair.

[Cam Mott]

Hmmm, that would be a crap way to do it. Since Brian is the convicted seems it would be Brian 42%, Mike 33% and Tony 25% or possibly each 33% which would actually benefit Tony.

[AndrewHickey]

Hmmm, that would be a crap way to do it. Since Brian is the convicted seems it would be Brian 42%, Mike 33% and Tony 25% or possibly each 33% which would actually benefit Tony.

It does seem a bad way of doing it. However, my understanding (and I can't remember the source, so take it with as many grains of salt as you want) is that the split was taken proportionally from each writer, and that the same formula was used for every song rather than a separate one for each. So on, say, Dance Dance Dance, Mike got a third of Brian's share and a third of Carl's, on Shut Down he got a third of Brian's share and a third of Roger Christian's, and so on.

I believe this is one of the main reasons Tony Asher is so bitter about the lawsuit, because it took a substantial proportion of his royalties away (obviously Wouldn't It Be Nice, along with God Only Knows, makes up the bulk of his songwriting royalties).

[Cam Mott]

You know it does seem I heard the jury did some sort of rote thing, maybe that was it or maybe it was just divided equally between whoever was already credited plus Mike.  Probably heard it from AGD. Mr. Doe? Either would be mostly crap probably for the non-Brian co-writers, hopefully we are both wrong.

[Dunderhead]

You know it does seem I heard the jury did some sort of rote thing, maybe that was it or maybe it was just divided equally between whoever was already credited plus Mike.  Probably heard it from AGD. Mr. Doe? Either would be mostly crap probably for the non-Brian co-writers, hopefully we are both wrong.

Imagine being on that jury....

[runnersdialzero]

Although I'm curious - did Mike really donate to the PMRC?

Yes, his "Love Foundation" gave something -- I think around $5000 -- to help the organisation when it first started up. It was reported in one of the big showbiz papers, either Billboard or Variety (can't remember which), at the time.

I know I'm a few days late here (been busy), but holy sh*t, I never knew this. Am I alone in thinking this is by far the worst thing Mike has ever done?

[Jason]

Although I'm curious - did Mike really donate to the PMRC?

Yes, his "Love Foundation" gave something -- I think around $5000 -- to help the organisation when it first started up. It was reported in one of the big showbiz papers, either Billboard or Variety (can't remember which), at the time.

I know I'm a few days late here (been busy), but holy sh*t, I never knew this. Am I alone in thinking this is by far the worst thing Mike has ever done?
[/quote]

It was the "politically correct" 1980s.

[KittyKat]

I'm not sure being in favor of putting warning stickers on albums/CD's/cassettes that there might be some "bad" language is not the worst thing ever.  It's not censorship, it's just warning parents what their kids are buying or what they're buying for their kids.  It's similar to the rating system on video games and movies.

[runnersdialzero]

I'm not sure being in favor of putting warning stickers on albums/CD's/cassettes that there might be some "bad" language is not the worst thing ever.  It's not censorship, it's just warning parents what their kids are buying or what they're buying for their kids.  It's similar to the rating system on video games and movies.

It is censorship, basically. The PMRC and their agenda was completely offensive and a total joke. It's pretty upsetting to me that Mike would support them.

[ontor pertawst]

Anybody defending the idea in 2012 or pretending it's simply some optional system to help parents needs to have those Zappa congressional testimony transcripts branded on their hides.

History lesson: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxB-ZePpS7E&feature=share&list=PL14CF94FFFEDDA165

Funding this sort of thing was far more douchebaggy than his rather entertaining Hall of Fame rant and 20% more Satanic than Summer in Paradise. 9 out of 10 dentists agree!

[Shady]

I knew about that, wasn't surprised. Nobody should ever defend Mike saying he's not a jerk because he really is.

It's just great how he doesn't realize it and doesn't seem to care, that makes him Rock and Roll.

 It's amazing how somebody who comes across as the uncoolest guy in the world could write the lyrics to the Wild Honey album which are some of the coolest f***ing songs ever written.

[SMiLE Brian]

Anybody defending the idea in 2012 or pretending it's simply some optional system to help parents needs to have those Zappa congressional testimony transcripts branded on their hides.

History lesson: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxB-ZePpS7E&feature=share&list=PL14CF94FFFEDDA165

Funding this sort of thing was far more douchebaggy than his rather entertaining Hall of Fame rant and 20% more Satanic than Summer in Paradise. 9 out of 10 dentists agree!

All of Zappa's 1980s interviews about this subject are awesome and define verbal ass kicking. I wish there was a debate between Mike Love and Zappa over the PMRC.

[ontor pertawst]

Yeah, I'm sure his Crossfire appearances about it are on there somewhere too. Fabulous stuff.

(hits key on Synclavier triggering barking dogs)