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Author Topic: Meet Me In My Dreams Tonight/BW88 discussion...  (Read 22096 times)
Wirestone
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« Reply #50 on: October 13, 2012, 07:04:58 AM »

Brian wrote much of the album. The reality of the situation is that Brian didn't have enough viable songs for the project, according to the label. So other songs, such as Paley's Meet In In My Dreams Tonight and Lynne's Let It Shine, were drafted into the project, and Brian was given writing credits, to make him seem more involved than he was. (But when hasn't that happened since 1967?). The label also asked for an ambitious suite-type work, and Paley took two unfinished Brian songs, wrote extra sections and all the linking material, and Rio Grande was done.
The fact of the matter is, besides Love And Mercy, the songs Brian was the most excited about were the ones that most folks dislike, the ones that sound most contemporary with that era, Night Time and Walkin' The Line. That is the sound he personally liked, not the BB 60's retro thing. The parts of that record that sound the most 60's (and this goes for a few subsequent projects as well) are things others contributed. As much as people do not dig it, Brian's taste in sounds and arrangements changed drastically decades ago, and moved with contemporary trends, for better or worse. This is the guy who thinks an example of a modern classic is Kenny G's Christmas album.
If one wants to hear an example of unfettered Brian in the modern-digital age, they should listen hard to Sweet Insanity. That was a large burst of creativity from him, and there hasn't really been one on that scale since. He put a lot into that album (he still thinks it is one of the best things he has ever done), and the rejection of the album was another in a long line of personal devastations that have seen him lose faith in his own creative voice sans "translators" and heavy collaboration.

Not sure about that tale of the origin of Rio Grande ... pretty sure those segments come from a lot of different places, and not just Paley. Although it was indeed Lenny Waronker's baby, that's true ...
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I. Spaceman
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« Reply #51 on: October 13, 2012, 08:56:20 AM »

Well, I simplified the Rio Grande story to essentials, it is a very complicated saga. But in general, Paley and the other folks working on the record sewed together fragments that were laying around to make up the suite, and did a fine job. I should also state that my thoughts about the album and Brian's solo career are mainly drawn from conversations I have had over the years with the participants.
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« Reply #52 on: October 13, 2012, 01:06:07 PM »

Well, I for one am interested in the full story, the whole complicated saga, if you ever get the time...
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cablegeddon
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« Reply #53 on: October 13, 2012, 01:48:07 PM »

The intro sounds like "Dirty jobs" by The Who  Cry
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« Reply #54 on: October 13, 2012, 02:52:26 PM »

I think, hands-down, "Melt Away" is Brian's best solo song (BWPS excepted). Love, love, love that song.

I love "There's So Many" and "Let It Shine" too, even if the latter is mostly Lynne, not Brian. I like most of the others. I think the weakest are "Walkin the Line" and "Night Time."

And, like people have commented before, it would have been great to hear the other guys' voices on it.
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« Reply #55 on: October 13, 2012, 06:14:08 PM »

I heard this album before I had heard any BBs outside of the hits (...even before PET SOUNDS). Still one of my favorite albums ever, whatever its flaws, and even if it has taken me 20+ years to accept "Night Time" (my least favorite track)!

(So, anyone out there ever heard the "Terri She Needs Me" outtake from these sessions?)
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smilethebeachboysloveyou
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« Reply #56 on: October 13, 2012, 07:14:28 PM »

I heard this album before I had heard any BBs outside of the hits (...even before PET SOUNDS). Still one of my favorite albums ever, whatever its flaws, and even if it has taken me 20+ years to accept "Night Time" (my least favorite track)!

(So, anyone out there ever heard the "Terri She Needs Me" outtake from these sessions?)

Do you mean "Sherry, She Needs Me?"  If so, the vocal dates back as far as the '70s and the instrumental as far as the '60s.

I think the album is great, and far and away Brian Wilson's best solo album.  I like pretty much every track, but "Meet Me in My Dreams Tonight" has probably always been my favorite.  If that is in fact primarily an Andy Paley-penned tune, he writes much more convincing Brian Wilson-sounding tracks than Jeff Lynne (or others who have tried).
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Gertie J.
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« Reply #57 on: October 13, 2012, 07:15:41 PM »

it's sherry, not terri. and no, haven't yet.

oops, smile beat me to that.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2012, 07:19:44 PM by Gertie J. » Logged

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« Reply #58 on: October 13, 2012, 07:36:44 PM »

it's sherry, not terri. and no, haven't yet.

oops, smile beat me to that.

It is Terri, if we're talking about the unreleased and unbooted version that Brian cut for the 88 album.

Frankly, this notion that Brian didn't have material for the album is strange, too, because he had a bunch of great tunes sitting around -- some of them became B-sides, and some (Let's Do It Again) remain unreleased to this day. Record companies are strange beasts.
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« Reply #59 on: October 13, 2012, 08:05:10 PM »

It took me until just today to notice that percussion on the section of "Rio Grande" that starts about a minute again sounds exactly like a train and someone shuffling a deck of cards.
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« Reply #60 on: October 13, 2012, 08:27:39 PM »

  for the 88 album.

Frankly, this notion that Brian didn't have material for the album is strange, too, because he had a bunch of great tunes sitting around -- some of them became B-sides, and some (Let's Do It Again) remain unreleased to this day. Record companies are strange beasts.

I agree. I think those B-sides and unreleased tracks would have made for a stronger album. I'm a big fan of things like He Couldn't Get His Poor Body To Move, Too Much Sugar and Being With The One You Love. But hey, record companies have rejected some of Brian's best, most characteristic and personal  music since at least the Sunflower era. I've always wished things like Games Two Can Play and I Just Got My Pay, both greatly disliked by Warners, would have made Sunflower. I guess the suits don't dig Brian's tunes in that mode. It is a miracle that Love You, which consists mostly of idiosyncratic material, was released at all.
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« Reply #61 on: October 13, 2012, 09:15:49 PM »

It is Terri, if we're talking about the unreleased and unbooted version that Brian cut for the 88 album.

Frankly, this notion that Brian didn't have material for the album is strange, too, because he had a bunch of great tunes sitting around -- some of them became B-sides, and some (Let's Do It Again) remain unreleased to this day. Record companies are strange beasts.

I'd never heard of it before.  Is it the same basic song with the name switched?  I wonder why that change was made.

Regarding the unreleased material from the era, in addition to "the suits" I know that Dr. Eugene Landy and his surf nazis were very influential over some decisions made regarding Brian at the time... could that be a possible reason (at least for some of the songs)?  There certainly is a lot of good stuff from that time; in addition to "He Couldn't Get His Poor Old Body to Move," which is glorious, I'm fond of a number of the songs he wrote with Gary Usher, such as "Turning Point" and "Heavenly Bodies."
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Wirestone
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« Reply #62 on: October 13, 2012, 10:29:22 PM »

I'd never heard of it before.  Is it the same basic song with the name switched?  I wonder why that change was made.

I don't think anyone knows, although one would expect so. Given that it was co-written with Russ back in the 60s, and he was BW88's 's main co-producer, it must have seemed like an obvious tune to try.

One wonders, actually, if it's a bit of a missing link between the 60s/70s version and the 98 take on Imagination. Wouldn't it be interesting if some of the arrangement ideas on the latter (which is pretty different from the original) show up in the 80s version.
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William Bowe
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« Reply #63 on: October 13, 2012, 11:14:00 PM »

Obviously these record company types were listening for different things from the rest of us, but I really don't understand why Being With The One You Love didn't make the cut. The biggest tragedy though is that nothing became of Black Widow, the demo of which is quite stunning despite its sketchiness. My instinct is to blame Landy for this - that Brian heard from him the kinds of things Mike Love would have said. Too negative, Brian. A downer. Think positive! Hence its transformation into the ghastly and deservedly unreleased Let's Do It Again. If Brian had been able to pursue the song's haunted and melancholy quality, it could have been a new 'Til I Die to match the neo-Smile of Rio Grande.

Poor Old Body To Move and Too Much Sugar on the other hand are clearly b-sides, much as I love the latter.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2012, 11:15:58 PM by William Bowe » Logged
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« Reply #64 on: October 17, 2012, 07:06:45 AM »

"Being with the one you love" is a helluva song! really cool. Just imagine the Beach Boys wouldn't have turned into a nostalgia Still Cruisin'-act always sreaming for girls and surf and sunshine. A new album as a follow up to Beach Boys '85 (which I love btw) with this kind of material. That would've been brilliant. Also "There's so many" on such an album. I guess Brian at this time was still much more creative than in any other part of his solo carreer. He churned out songs on a steady basis and/or reworked older tunes with ease as it seems.
I don't think BW88 is his best solo album though. That imo is one of the most recent three (TLOS, BWRG, ITKOD).
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« Reply #65 on: October 17, 2012, 11:07:58 PM »

Being With The One You Love is a personal favorite. Funny, as I can't stand Doin' Time On Planet Earth.
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« Reply #66 on: October 17, 2012, 11:23:26 PM »

Being With The One You Love is a personal favorite. Funny, as I can't stand Doin' Time On Planet Earth.
A friend at a local record store got me the cassette single of Melt Away/Being With the One You Love. I played those songs over and over. I'm also a big fan of Let's Go to Heaven in My Car, and Daddy's Little Girl. No shortage of great tunes from Brian back then. I agree, the group should've done some of them on a followup to BB85. Instead, we got the half-hearted Still Cruisin', with only one new (overproduced) Brian tune, and nothing from Carl. What a way to followup a #1 record....NOT!
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« Reply #67 on: October 18, 2012, 12:03:39 AM »

I agree that Being with the One You Love is a fine song. Most of those pre-BW88 recordings are poor imo though. When I first heard the stuff that Brian and Gary Usher worked on together I was shocked at how bad it was. Just Say No is remarkably bad.

I agree it`s a real shame that the BBs couldn`t have worked together on a follow-up to BB85 together. If they could have combined stuff like Somewhere Near Japan and Kokomo (yes, it would deserve to be included  Smiley) with the stuff that Brian was working on then it had the potential for a good album.

As it stands, I think even the original idea of Still Cruisin` as a songs from movies album could have worked more than the album that we ended up with if it had been done correctly (which it probably wouldn`t have been). If they could have combined rarer stuff like It`s a Beautiful Day, Chasin` the Sky, Girls on the Beach etc. with the new songs and classic hits then at least it wouldn`t have been masquerading as a new studio album. Somewhere Near Japan would have been the big loss though...
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« Reply #68 on: October 18, 2012, 04:58:41 AM »

Being with the One You Love  always made me smile .. it was so, err Brian!

back in the day, the local am top 40 station played it regularly instead of the  "A' side of the single, as it was
the bubbling under song on the top 40 chart.. wish I had a copy of that chart, that would be considered a bit of a unusual collectable nowadays I'd imagine.

 Smiley
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« Reply #69 on: October 18, 2012, 08:54:46 AM »

Can anyone fill me in on the issues with the c. 2000 reissue of this album? I've read about incorrect mixes being used for some tracks (Melt Away being on of them) and whilst I've got original CD and the reissue, my copy of the original release is scratched beyond repair. Are the differences significant enough that I need to get a new copy?

Brian still had a lot of power in his vocal delivery at this point, even though his voice had changed a lot. I can still hear something of Brian's soulful late 70's vocals here and I'm not sure if Brian's vocals were ever this strong again. As much as I like the 'wall of Brian' on this, I'd love to hear how good this could have sounded with group vocals.
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« Reply #70 on: October 18, 2012, 09:06:49 AM »

The main differences present on the mistakenly released early mixes include some additional clunky synth notes on "Love & Mercy" and the lack of the high falsetto part on the coda to "Melt Away". I believe there are some different drum tracks as well on certain songs. The extra notes in "Love & Mercy" is kind of annoying, but the lack of the high falsetto on the "Melt Away" coda is a deal-breaker for me; that additional vocal is the sweetest part of one of Brian's finest solo recordings.
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« Reply #71 on: October 18, 2012, 12:09:28 PM »

Thanks for that, I guess I'll pick up a copy of the original release then!
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« Reply #72 on: October 18, 2012, 12:36:07 PM »

Always liked "Doin' Time On Planet Earth".

Also liked the early version of "Walkin The Line" with Terence Trent D'Arby singing it.

Always liked Let's Go To Heaven In My Car" and "Daddy's Little Girl" too. Ol' Gary Usher's kid played lead on "Let's Go To Heaven".
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« Reply #73 on: October 18, 2012, 01:01:57 PM »

The main differences present on the mistakenly released early mixes include some additional clunky synth notes on "Love & Mercy" and the lack of the high falsetto part on the coda to "Melt Away". I believe there are some different drum tracks as well on certain songs. The extra notes in "Love & Mercy" is kind of annoying, but the lack of the high falsetto on the "Melt Away" coda is a deal-breaker for me; that additional vocal is the sweetest part of one of Brian's finest solo recordings.

"Let It Shine" is a different mix on the 2000, as well.
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« Reply #74 on: October 18, 2012, 01:14:34 PM »

Hmm, I've only ever heard the 2000 mix, now I am curious.
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