Official thread for Brian & Al's Official Response to Mike/Bruce Band Tour in the LA Times

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

I think you guys are just plain giving Andrew too much credit. He is only arguing in defense of the Love/Johnston scheme because he's buddies with Bruce.

I call BS on that.  Yes, I'm also disagreeing with AGD on the press-release stuff and the end-it-all stuff -- but I'll happily point out that he's not playing mouthpiece for Bruce on the reunion situation... for a start, he's enthused about "Radio" (particularly the closing suite) in a way which Bruce very much doesn't.

Andrew felt that "Summer's Gone" was a perfect farewell to the Beach Boys, and I think that's driving his thinking on this.  (Correct me if I'm wrong on this, Andrew!)

Cheers,
Jon Blum

My thinking is informed by past history and a burning desire not to see all the positive results of this summer just passed diluted if not actually tarnished by a mediocre new album and tour nest year. Fitzgerald, I think it was, said "there are no second acts in American lives". Well, The Beach Boys proved him wrong... however, I think aiming for a third act is, at best, a triumph of wishful thinking over past history. Simply put, I want the events of summer 2012 to be a gloriously unexpected coda, not a shining prelude to mild disappointment. Because I'm a fan of this here band.

BINGO!

And if we all were to just quit yelling and screaming about the Mike/Historical band touring the local swap-meet circuit, we'd have nary a clue it was even happening.....

[Don Malcolm]

Just quibbling a bit here, Andrew, but seems to me that the BB's had a second act back in the mid-70s: seeds sown by Jack Reiley, fledgling plant ripped from its pot and appropriated by Capitol. They were band of the year in '75 without a new album in over two years. Then they blew it and went off into various flavors of oblivion.

So this was/is their "third act"--well past Fitzgerald's admonition (now, I love Fitzgerald, but he was a sloppy drunk and that statement is more about himself than anything else...in fact, William Carlos Williams' statement might be even more appropriate: "The pure products of America go crazy").

This third act was fueled primarily by Brian deciding to do an album and a tour...all of which became a freaky kind of miracle. And even as they started to get all this off-the-wall "firing" publicity, they go out in a blaze of glory with two stellar London concerts, with Brian getting the last word ("Summer's Gone").

If they can do that with all of this nonsense going on in parallel, I think that filledeplage is absolutely correct in saying they can overcome this and do something even more astonishing--if they choose to. But it's fascinating to watch--because if there was ever a group of guys who have a devil at the left ear and an angel at the right ear, it's Brian and Mike. It will probably go on in one form or another 'til one or the other of them dies.

This is better than any old-time movie serial. As BW wrote about another pure product of America: "The way (they) keep it up could make you cry."

All in all, 2012 is a year populated by tears of joy. Let's let them go away for awhile and see what they come up with next year.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

I dunno if any of that counts as 2nd act since it was still when the group was young and is just a part of their career arc up until the Wikipedia designated date of 1996 as when they were officially done and over....... I'd say the grand second act has been this summer.....

Oops! Wikipedia now says 1961 - Present

[Sheriff John Stone]

Brian's been preventing Beach Boys' reunions for several years now, and all I've ever read was, "You go, guy...."

Again -- Brian hasn't been preventing "Beach Boys' reunions" by not touring with them, any more than he was doing so in 1965.

A Beach Boys reunion with Mike, Al, David, and Bruce would still interest me a heckuva lot more than just Mike and Bruce.  And we could have had that at any time between 1999 and now -- even if only for short stints because Dave and/or Al don't want to be on the road endlessly.  It's not Brian who was preventing that.

Cheers,
Jon Blum

Yes, he HAS been preventing a Beach Boys' reunion for several years. And, yes, the last several years have been different from the time frame 1965 - 1998. From 1965, when Brian stopped touring, until 1983, there was Mike, Al, Bruce, Dennis and Carl in the group, thus, no reason for a reunion. Then, Carl passed and Al left, thus depleting the ranks, and, just by those two leaving, created the potential for a reunion. There were, in effect, just two practicing Beach Boys.

With just Mike and Bruce, I highly doubt they could've gotten a recording contract. I'm not sure they were even ALLOWED TO under the BRI agreement. With all due respect, adding Al and/or David to the mix wasn't going to change that. The same for touring. Al and David would only attract minor interest outside of the diehard fan base, and I'm not sure how fulfilling it would've been, even for diehards. They needed Brian Wilson's participation.

It took Brian to have a legitimate reunion. But, as I posted, he was not interested in one. He was more interested in a solo career. Imagination could've been a Beach Boys' album. The Beach Boys could've celebrated their 40th Anniversary and done the Pet Sounds live thing. The Beach Boys could've contributed to the disappointing What I Really Want For Christmas, even doing a special Holiday Reunion Tour. The Beach Boys could've loaned their voices to both Getting In Over My Head and That Lucky Old Sun.

So, there were opportunities for a reunion of some type - even if it was for the sake of reuniting; they didn't really need an anniversary to celebrate. Mike ALWAYS left the door for Brian. Interview after interview. Year after year. All he got were terse responses from Brian. This post isn't about whether Brian made the right choices or not. That's for another thread. The point is that it was Brian who was needed for a valid reunion - isn't this C50 proof of that? - but he didn't want to be a Beach Boy.

And now he does? So, again, it's about Brian Wilson. It's about what Brian Wilson wants, for his career. And, it always will be.

[Sam_BFC]

Looks like the Brian Wilson band had a re-union of another kind today...

[drbeachboy]

I dunno if any of that counts as 2nd act since it was still when the group was young and is just a part of their career arc up until the Wikipedia designated date of 1996 as when they were officially done and over....... I'd say the grand second act has been this summer.....

Oops! Wikipedia now says 1961 - Present

I'm not sure how old you are, but what happened to them in the mid-70's is nothing short of a miracle. As a touring band it surely was a second act. No time in their career, before or since were they able to command and perform at the biggest venues in the world.

[Chris Brown]

Sheriff, I don't think Brian's solo career is the reason why he resisted a reunion for so long - perhaps it had something to do with the fact that the last time he tried getting together with them, in 1995, they shot down the music he wanted to do with them.  And obviously that was far from the first time.  Why subject himself to that again by asking them to do Imagination/GIOMH/whatever?

You're right, it IS all about Brian Wilson - he's the only member with the creative juice left to use on the Beach Boys, so before doing the reunion he needed assurance that the Boys would let him take creative control and not question his creative direction like they had done so many times before.

[KittyKat]

Sheriff, I don't think Brian's solo career is the reason why he resisted a reunion for so long - perhaps it had something to do with the fact that the last time he tried getting together with them, in 1995, they shot down the music he wanted to do with them.  And obviously that was far from the first time.  Why subject himself to that again by asking them to do Imagination/GIOMH/whatever?

You're right, it IS all about Brian Wilson - he's the only member with the creative juice left to use on the Beach Boys, so before doing the reunion he needed assurance that the Boys would let him take creative control and not question his creative direction like they had done so many times before.

GIOMH is not something the Beach Boys should have been doing.  In fact, it's not something Brian should have been doing. 

[Sheriff John Stone]

Sheriff, I don't think Brian's solo career is the reason why he resisted a reunion for so long - perhaps it had something to do with the fact that the last time he tried getting together with them, in 1995, they shot down the music he wanted to do with them.  And obviously that was far from the first time.  Why subject himself to that again by asking them to do Imagination/GIOMH/whatever?

You're right, it IS all about Brian Wilson - he's the only member with the creative juice left to use on the Beach Boys, so before doing the reunion he needed assurance that the Boys would let him take creative control and not question his creative direction like they had done so many times before.

Chris (or anybody), correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't it ONLY Carl who was not happy with the material in 1995, and Carl's subsequent "walking out" killed the project? I never heard/read that any of the other guys objected.

As far as your second paragraph, I agree with you agreeing with me. However, if Brian could demand and get creative control in 2012, I see no reason why he couldn't get the same assurances in the entire 1998-2011 period. Mike left the door open a long time ago, not just for this 2012 reunion.

[HeyJude]

Sheriff, I don't think Brian's solo career is the reason why he resisted a reunion for so long - perhaps it had something to do with the fact that the last time he tried getting together with them, in 1995, they shot down the music he wanted to do with them.  And obviously that was far from the first time.  Why subject himself to that again by asking them to do Imagination/GIOMH/whatever?

You're right, it IS all about Brian Wilson - he's the only member with the creative juice left to use on the Beach Boys, so before doing the reunion he needed assurance that the Boys would let him take creative control and not question his creative direction like they had done so many times before.

Chris (or anybody), correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't it ONLY Carl who was not happy with the material in 1995, and Carl's subsequent "walking out" killed the project? I never heard/read that any of the other guys objected.

As far as your second paragraph, I agree with you agreeing with me. However, if Brian could demand and get creative control in 2012, I see no reason why he couldn't get the same assurances in the entire 1998-2011 period. Mike left the door open a long time ago, not just for this 2012 reunion.

I would first of all argue whether Mike was as enthusiastic about a *full* reunion in the last decade or more as Brian is now. Mike often spoke of "working with Brian" or having Brian sit in with "his" band, but as I mentioned in another post, Mike barely mentioned Al's name between 1998 and 2006 or so.

But the literal functionality of a reunion is also what is frustrating some fans. Mike vaguely wanting to "work with Brian" a decade ago and Brian waffling or not wanting to is not the same thing as the reunion band in 2012 being rehearsed, ready to go, 74 shows under its belt, rave reviews, entire inftrastructure planned out, and then Mike putting the brakes on it. That's very different from Brian saying in 1999 "Meh, I think I'll do solo stuff right now" in the face of the prospect of maybe only joining Mike's touring band featuring Bruce, Adrian Baker, Chris Farmer, Phil Bardowell, etc.

[the professor]

Brian plays solo. Mike and Bruce on the road. Why do i want to buy BB albums and listen to the BB sing about harmony right now? Even the ever-hopefull Professor is getting discouraged about the future.  I am getting to my limit. . . . .If there is no formal clarification mentioning getting back into the studio  then i am going to

[Awesoman]

I think you guys are just plain giving Andrew too much credit. He is only arguing in defense of the Love/Johnston scheme because he's buddies with Bruce.

I call BS on that.  Yes, I'm also disagreeing with AGD on the press-release stuff and the end-it-all stuff -- but I'll happily point out that he's not playing mouthpiece for Bruce on the reunion situation... for a start, he's enthused about "Radio" (particularly the closing suite) in a way which Bruce very much doesn't.

Andrew felt that "Summer's Gone" was a perfect farewell to the Beach Boys, and I think that's driving his thinking on this.  (Correct me if I'm wrong on this, Andrew!)

Cheers,
Jon Blum

My thinking is informed by past history and a burning desire not to see all the positive results of this summer just passed diluted if not actually tarnished by a mediocre new album and tour nest year. Fitzgerald, I think it was, said "there are no second acts in American lives". Well, The Beach Boys proved him wrong... however, I think aiming for a third act is, at best, a triumph of wishful thinking over past history. Simply put, I want the events of summer 2012 to be a gloriously unexpected coda, not a shining prelude to mild disappointment. Because I'm a fan of this here band.

I see your point, AGD and agree with it to some extent.  That being said, I was ready to close the door on this group after Carl died back in 1998.  Was not interested in a reunion tour, and especially not a new album.  Who wants to see a bunch of aging, dysfunctional guys tarnish a legendary band, especially with their best singer deceased?  So when the reunion did come to fruition, my low expectations were pleasantly proven wrong.  And these guys are better together than apart.  So whilst I don't have a personal "need" for the band remaining together that other fans on here apparently do, I'm not closing the door on them either.  If they decide to go back on the road again next year, and/or even put out another album, I say go for it.  If they decide not to reunite again, then I'd agree with you that they at least found a good stopping point.  

[lance]

You fools, the only way to preserve the Beach Boys legacy and make sure they go out in style is by having Mike and Bruce tour state fairs and gambling casinos.

[SurfRiderHawaii]

You fools, the only way to preserve the Beach Boys legacy and make sure they go out in style is by having Mike and Bruce tour state fairs and gambling casinos.

Exactly.  Mike and Bruce (with John Stamos) touring on the lowest rung of the oldies circuit is just what the Beach Boys need to secure their legacy of the greatest American Band of all time!
Kinda like using the Stanley Cup as a bedpan.

[Jonathan Blum]

My thinking is informed by past history and a burning desire not to see all the positive results of this summer just passed diluted if not actually tarnished by a mediocre new album and tour nest year. Fitzgerald, I think it was, said "there are no second acts in American lives". Well, The Beach Boys proved him wrong... however, I think aiming for a third act is, at best, a triumph of wishful thinking over past history. Simply put, I want the events of summer 2012 to be a gloriously unexpected coda, not a shining prelude to mild disappointment. Because I'm a fan of this here band.

...Which is why I can't understand why you don't see the Beach Boys continuing to tour with just two of them as, at the very least, a mild disappointment!  Long as they're on the road, you're not really going to get the sort of full stop / exclamation point you're hoping to wrap it up with...

Cheers,
Jon Blum

[The Heartical Don]

My thinking is informed by past history and a burning desire not to see all the positive results of this summer just passed diluted if not actually tarnished by a mediocre new album and tour nest year. Fitzgerald, I think it was, said "there are no second acts in American lives". Well, The Beach Boys proved him wrong... however, I think aiming for a third act is, at best, a triumph of wishful thinking over past history. Simply put, I want the events of summer 2012 to be a gloriously unexpected coda, not a shining prelude to mild disappointment. Because I'm a fan of this here band.

...Which is why I can't understand why you don't see the Beach Boys continuing to tour with just two of them as, at the very least, a mild disappointment!  Long as they're on the road, you're not really going to get the sort of full stop / exclamation point you're hoping to wrap it up with...

Cheers,
Jon Blum

I couldn't see them live during the reunion tour, and regret that bitterly, and yet I can fully empathise with the feelings of messrs Doe and Blum here. Very, very few bands as important as the BBs, with such a long career, ended their story with a gloriously unexpected all time high (can't put it any better myself). I would love my favourites to be part of that select class.

(In fact, I can't think of something comparable at all at the mo...)

[Nicko1234]

...Which is why I can't understand why you don't see the Beach Boys continuing to tour with just two of them as, at the very least, a mild disappointment!  Long as they're on the road, you're not really going to get the sort of full stop / exclamation point you're hoping to wrap it up with...

Cheers,
Jon Blum

Because nobody cares about the M&B show maybe? When books about the band are written in future, all of the years of touring that M&B have done will barely be mentioned. It is the same band in name only and I think anybody with any real interest in music knows that. That`s why the recent tour was seen as a reunion and not just a reshuffle. If the band do nothing more together then Wembley will be seen as their final show.

[filledeplage]

...Which is why I can't understand why you don't see the Beach Boys continuing to tour with just two of them as, at the very least, a mild disappointment!  Long as they're on the road, you're not really going to get the sort of full stop / exclamation point you're hoping to wrap it up with...
Cheers,
Jon Blum

Because nobody cares about the M&B show maybe? When books about the band are written in future, all of the years of touring that M&B have done will barely be mentioned. It is the same band in name only and I think anybody with any real interest in music knows that. That`s why the recent tour was seen as a reunion and not just a reshuffle. If the band do nothing more together then Wembley will be seen as their final show.

Nicko - no one cares about the Touring Band? Seriously? You might try explaining your logic to the venues that lost money this summer, and who rely on the return visits of the Touring Band and who sell out routinely. 

Consider me one of the tasteless ones, a fan since the mid 1960's from The Ed Sullivan Show in black and white, and with teaching credentials in Music and whose interests run from classical to rock.  That is a broad brush with which you paint. 

It is pessimistic to regard Wembly as the finale.  IMHO - and respectfully, so.

If they did it before, they can "Do It Again!" 

[Jim V.]

...Which is why I can't understand why you don't see the Beach Boys continuing to tour with just two of them as, at the very least, a mild disappointment!  Long as they're on the road, you're not really going to get the sort of full stop / exclamation point you're hoping to wrap it up with...

Cheers,
Jon Blum

Because nobody cares about the M&B show maybe? When books about the band are written in future, all of the years of touring that M&B have done will barely be mentioned. It is the same band in name only and I think anybody with any real interest in music knows that. That`s why the recent tour was seen as a reunion and not just a reshuffle. If the band do nothing more together then Wembley will be seen as their final show.

Yeah but the problem is The Beach Boys deserve better than to be a group like the "Four Tops" or the "Coasters" or the "Temptations" who tour these days with a bunch of guys who are obviously not originals. You don't see the Stones or The Beatles doing things like that. And I think that is the reason the reunion tour wasn't even bigger. But to be fair, that is not just Mike and Bruce's fault. Blame also lays with Carl's estate and Brian for allowing that group to go out and tour. And no matter how good that group was (and they could be good) it diluted what The Beach Boys brand meant to the public.

[the professor]

At this point all we want to hear is that all parties are talking and considering plans for next year, as per Brian's list of offers, and are working with Capital on planning a new album with all aboard. That's all we want, and this would render all current touring "OK for now."

[Nicko1234]

Nicko - no one cares about the Touring Band? Seriously? You might try explaining your logic to the venues that lost money this summer, and who rely on the return visits of the Touring Band and who sell out routinely. 

Consider me one of the tasteless ones, a fan since the mid 1960's from The Ed Sullivan Show in black and white, and with teaching credentials in Music and whose interests run from classical to rock.  That is a broad brush with which you paint. 

It is pessimistic to regard Wembly as the finale.  IMHO - and respectfully, so.

If they did it before, they can "Do It Again!" 

You misunderstand my meaning. Now I actually like the touring band and have seen them on a few occasions. The performances have ranged from good to superb (England 2008). But nobody cares about Mike and Bruce from any other perspective other than it`s a good night out/it will make money. Nobody cares about them from the perspective of them making a significant contibution to the history of The BBs. As I said, they will barely be mentioned in future books when the history of the band is discussed. That`s what I`m talking about and I don`t think that anybody with any interest in popular music genuinely considers them to be the real Beach Boys.

Wembley may well not be the finale but if it is then it would be a fine place to finish (and M&B doing some shows will not seriously affect that). If the group do some more recording or touring then I would be happy as long as it doesn`t turn out as it so often has in the past.

[filledeplage]

...Which is why I can't understand why you don't see the Beach Boys continuing to tour with just two of them as, at the very least, a mild disappointment!  Long as they're on the road, you're not really going to get the sort of full stop / exclamation point you're hoping to wrap it up with...
Cheers,
Jon Blum

Because nobody cares about the M&B show maybe? When books about the band are written in future, all of the years of touring that M&B have done will barely be mentioned. It is the same band in name only and I think anybody with any real interest in music knows that. That`s why the recent tour was seen as a reunion and not just a reshuffle. If the band do nothing more together then Wembley will be seen as their final show.

Yeah but the problem is The Beach Boys deserve better than to be a group like the "Four Tops" or the "Coasters" or the "Temptations" who tour these days with a bunch of guys who are obviously not originals. You don't see the Stones or The Beatles doing things like that. And I think that is the reason the reunion tour wasn't even bigger. But to be fair, that is not just Mike and Bruce's fault. Blame also lays with Carl's estate and Brian for allowing that group to go out and tour. And no matter how good that group was (and they could be good) it diluted what The Beach Boys brand meant to the public.

While I agree 1000% with your take the Band deserve and have deserved, in the past, to be better regarded, the press and/or music industry people with press infuence marginalized the Boys since the British invasion.  This is old.  And despite its "old-ness" became ingrained, unfortunately.  

And, you cannot compare the Beatles who have been a non-entity for nearly 40 years, despite their vast contribution to musc.  The Stones have rotated members in and out from the get-go.  And, frankly, there are fewer people who have or could have afforded to see the Stones, but because of accessibility to the Band, have been able to see a live show.  Brian's tickets are no more costly than the Touring Band.  And, Brian has had SRO for some shows I've been to.  So many factors must be considered with filling a venue.  It is promotion, press, involvement in other ways, such as a new CD or film connection, etc., to bump up the interest and ticket sales.  

This argument just does not hold water.  I don't know what the Four Tops have released, but our "Top Five" have not remained stagnant.  They've continued to work and grow, musically and be accessible.  All 3 bands.  And, David
Marks - what a star!

What sets the Touring Band apart, I think is that there is this expectation that the show is one of "audience participation." From the first note.  And it is not "passive entertainment." People come expecting to sing along, or dance.  It is a bona fide party.  People plan their vacations around where the "Boys" are.

And by the close of Brian's (and Al's) shows, people are on their feet, groovin' - but the "BB party" dynamic is not as visible.  That "BB party" contagion, infected that C50 run; Scott B on the piano! Wow! I wish Darian had done likewise!

And, now, those who dissed the Touring Band (who played by the rules) must eat their words "with a fork and spoon."  IMHO  

[Nicko1234]

Brian's tickets are no more costly than the Touring Band.

He also generally plays much smaller venues.

[filledeplage]

Brian's tickets are no more costly than the Touring Band.

He also generally plays much smaller venues.

It Ain't Necessrily So.

Both bands played Hampton Beach Casino only weeks apart in 2008.  And play size-comparable venues.  Older theatres.  It is where rock music has taken up residence.  I find it lovely.  Lots of like-minded folks!  And, now we can get a beer! Unlike the 60's!

[Nicko1234]

It Ain't Necessrily So.

Both bands played Hampton Beach Casino only weeks apart in 2008.  And play size-comparable venues.  Older theatres.  It is where rock music has taken up residence.  I find it lovely.  Lots of like-minded folks!  And, now we can get a beer! Unlike the 60's!

Sorry because you mentioned Brian`s tickets being the same price I presumed that you must have been talking about the reunion touring band.

In my experience the tickets to Brian`s shows have been much, much more expensive than the tickets to M&B`s shows. That may well not be true for all venues though.