Official thread for Brian & Al's Official Response to Mike/Bruce Band Tour in the LA Times

[Heysaboda]

Are Bruce and David going to have a response printed in the LA Times?  LOL

This should be a TV soap opera!

[Nicko1234]

My general feelings now...

I can completely understand Brian`s perspective on this. From his point of view the tour and album went well, he`s enjoyed it and they have more offers to continue. Absolutely fair enough.

I get what Mike`s perspective might be too. For him this was probably always meant to be a one-off and he agreed to all of the demands of Brian`s management in terms of band members, the album, the touring expenses and changing the setlists. He then extended the tour when it was demanded and probably feels he did everything that he originally agreed to and more.

The only good point about things is that at least this all blew up after the tour had basically ended and they finished, if they have finished, on a high.

[Rocker]

For those who support Mike in this, I'd like to explain something. Those of us who are backing Brian and Al (and Dave) do not hate Mike. (Most of us, at least.) What's more, most of us didn't mind that Mike toured under the band's name for nearly 15 years. He earned the right and did a good job and kept the music alive.

But Mike did not create the group or the music. He was a key player, but far from the only one. When Brian and Al (and Dave) returned for the tour, things changed. And I understand that contracts might not have changed. But minds and opinions and experiences did. The full group gave so much more than anyone expected. Mike was part of that -- but so was Al, and so was Dave, and so was -- in every possible way -- Brian.

Things changed.

And now that Brian wants to continue, and now that Al wants to continue, our perspectives have changed. We can't accept Mike as the Beach Boys anymore, because other members of the band -- the majority of members of the band, and half of the shareholders of BRI -- want to be included. And I'm sorry that this makes some people unhappy, or that they think we're unrealistic or pie in the sky or whatever.

I don't care. The fact is, this is a band that should be together. If Mike is unwilling or unable to accept that, the name should be retired. If he is unwilling to retire the name, he should no longer be allowed to tour under it without the other guys.

I feel Mike should honor his contracts, but after that the Beach Boys as Mike and Bruce is no longer valid in any shape or form.  Brian and Al are just as important as Mike and Bruce is never going to be an original Beach Boy. Where is Dave in all this? He was a huge part of the success of the reunion and their first four albums (the ones that made them famous) wouldn't have been nearly as good without him.

That said I still feel if these guys would talk face to face with each other instead of through the press, their agents, their wives, etc.  the problems would be solved. 

Totally agree with this!

As I said many times before, I don't like Mike&Bruce to tour under the Beach Boys' name (never did like it). And I agree that after this reunion things have changed (as someone else mentioned in this thread). The Beach Boys are a big thing again now and not the small combo of Mike & Bruce (who - I still think - have a very good band). The Beach Boys again is big business and, like Brian mentioned in his press statement, did reclaim a lot of their legacy with the reunion tour and releases that went hand in hand with it (I include also the Smile Sessions box set) not unlike Brian did with his own legacy when he started to become a big (or at least critically acclaimed) touring act (which imo had a lot to do with the way people started to look at the Beach Boys but that's another topic).

But as long as they don't talk face to face with each other the band won't ever become a family thing again but will stay a business. So it's up to them to change it and the first step has to come from Brian - and not in a press statement.
BTW I am very happy that Brian actually cares again about the band he and his family built. I support that very much. It started out - as Mike often said - as a love thing (no pun!) and it's great if it could come back to being that. Family & friends. But this is not the way to do it.

But Mike & Bruce have contracts that they must fulfill. Nobody (at least not me) said that this would end everything. Just because Mike doesn't mention the possibility of another Beach Boys tour/album it doesn't mean he wasn't open for it. He said in another interview that he would like to record another album if he gets to write songs with Brian. Someone who was at the Grammy Museum show said that Mike told Al he was willing to talk about more Beach Boys work.
So I don't get why so may people think he doesn't wanna work with the guys again. It's just that he has other things to do right now.
And as someone wrote, it would be very dumb for him to say that another Beach Boys tour will happen soon while he is doing promotion for his and Bruce's shows (and while nothing is planned for a Beach Boys tour).

Even before the reunion tour started I mentioned that I'd fear there would be problems regarding the name afterwards. Looks like I was right (although some people didn't agree with me). As I've often said before, I'd liked if the name would've been put to rest after a successful and loveable tour. Not only go out on a high but on a positive note.
I also feared that when they get used to be around each other the problems would start again. I still think so.

But if they should continue on I of course would support them. But they can't just go out without a plan imo. It should be planned very carefully. A new album certainly won't be as successful as TWGMTR because the fact it was a reunion album sold many copies - they should know that. But even more important imo is that they can't just release an album full of throwaway material/re-recordings, etc. An album of that kind as your last (and let's keep realistic, we don't know if they even get to record another one) would be a big, big damage for the legacy. And they all have a big responsibility to carry regarding the band. If not for themselves than at least for Dennis, Carl, Murry and Audree.

My last post in this thread. I don't know what else I could possibly say without repeating myself (which I've probably done already).

[rn57]

11 pages and no shutdown or Sandboxing - might be a record for a thread about an issue like this.

I'd personally say that the most suitable way to get the five guys on stage again without getting Mike worried about "overexposure" would be to have them do a few of the big outdoor fests next year - Bonnaroo, the Baltimore VirginFest, Coachella. That way they would reach the "new generation" - and we all know that Mike takes a keen interest in the welfare of America's young people, especially the ones with halter tops and cutoff jeans. That approach would also jumpstart sales of the CDs. It would keep Stamos off the stage because Mike and Bruce would be obliged to realize that for these types of audiences, Uncle Jesse is not all that readily distinguishable from Wilford Brimley. (Whereas Brian's admirer Zooey Deschanel would likely be OK.) Anyway, that's my notion for the day.

[rn57]

(Forgot to mention in the above that I was just watching some of the Youtube clips from last week's Austin show with Stamos. Indeed, it was all for the best that he was limited to that night at the Beacon Theater during the 50th tour - and not just because that improved the value of those guitar picks on eBay.)

[Jim V.]

Just because Brian is living his life the way he wants does not mean it is "wrong". Sorry Mike. I seriously think Mike prefers the guy who was depressed out of his mind, but churning out half-assed surf tunes at MIU. I think that was probably the situation where Mike probably felt Brian was best since like 1970. He had him there to write songs for him, and he had him under control and some boring ass location where he could watch him. Sad.

What are you basing that on? Nothing at all presumably...

There are several people besides Mike who have left the Brian fold because of the strangeness of his current situation.

I'm basing it off of the fact that the one time Mike had some reasonable amount of "control" over what Brian was doing, he holed him up in Iowa to write formula tunes. I don't think that's what he'd do now, but whatever.

My thing is, Mike seems to think Brian would all of the sudden be this super happy guy if he could just start writing together all the time. That's just not the case.

And Ian, yes, Brian's situation is weird. But it's not like the Landy era. He chose his wife. And he trusts her to do what's best for him. And he likes his band. So therefore, even though I don't consider myself a Brianista, he should tell Mike that either The Beach Boys proceed together or "The Beach Boys" won't be an active touring group anymore.

[I. Spaceman]

And Ian, yes, Brian's situation is weird. But it's not like the Landy era. He chose his wife. And he trusts her to do what's best for him. And he likes his band. So therefore, even though I don't consider myself a Brianista, he should tell Mike that either The Beach Boys proceed together or "The Beach Boys" won't be an active touring group anymore.

He chose Landy too. And Mike Love. Brian always surrounds himself with slightly overbearing handlers/mouthpieces who take all the blame whenever anything goes wrong, tho he actually is the one passive-aggressively controlling the strings. The roles and figures change at his whim, and there isn't one person in there now who wouldn't assume the villain role in Brian-fan eyes, if he cast them aside tomorrow, including Melinda.

[HeyJude]

Did somebody say "shady"? ...

Seriously though Mike's daughter put an interesting spin on things. Maybe Mike's had enough of Brian's "people"

I suppose this is possible, perhaps likely. But it's interesting to note that, at least presently, Al and David don't have an issue with Brian's "people." They have in the past for sure, Al stated in that BBC documentary circa 2005 that he missed Brian and nobody would let him talk to Brian. But Al and David are able to work around or with Brian's people now. What this *may* suggest is that if this is Mike's issue, it's not neccesarily a case where Brian's camp is making things literally undoable, but rather that they don't do things to Mike's liking. What his "liking" is we simply don't know. If he has a problem with Brian's camp, is it about little stuff like setlist selections, or big stuff like business arrangements? They also had the Joe Thomas buffer, easily the best thing Thomas has ever done for the band. Where is Thomas in all of this? All interesting things to ponder.

[HeyJude]

Back when this first came up, I said the situation was surely a simple one. Mike was adhering to the letter of the contract. Brian had come to enjoy touring with the full band and wanted it to continue in some way.

For whatever reason, the parties couldn't agree to this behind the scenes. So when Mike issued his somewhat ill-timed and poorly worded press release, it was a chance for Brian and Al to apply public pressure to Mike. Now that Mike tried to settle things with his LA Times piece -- but without committing to working with the rest of the guys -- Brian and his camp is going to keep up the pressure.

Brian has now officially allied with Al, as stated in the piece. This would send a message to Mike that the license is surely once again a subject for discussion. And if a proposal is made that the name "The Beach Boys" can only be applied to a group consisting of X members -- well, that's when things get interesting, isn't it?

I doubt this is a publicity ploy. This is merely everyone reverting to the personality types and behaviors that are familiar and that they know best. Mike is pugnacious and looking out for himself. Brian is playing the victim to get what he wants. Al is trying to pick the winning side. I don't think Brian looks bad in this, regardless of how folks want to spin it. He will always be the genius behind the band, and Mike will always be the heel, at least in the popular imagination.

I can't imagine how this is going to end to everyone's satisfaction. And Mike has disappointed me, yet again. Each time, it gets a little harder to forgive the man. But such are the challenges of BB fandom.

I agree with this; well stated! The words from Brian and Al seem to be about applying more broad pressure to get Mike to continue the reunion. Whether they are successful or not, or whether this is conducive to a harmonious continuation of the reuion is of course up for debate. But I for one like that they're doing it (assuming this is what they're doing), because I firmly believe at this point that they have nothing to lose, at least as it pertains to working together. I don't think Mike would ever instigate more reunion stuff, so the only way it would happen is with some prodding and convincing from others.

[Heysaboda]

The wives spoiled the reunion. As could be expected.

Wives always spoil everything!!

 

[HeyJude]

I think what you're seeing is that I'm arguing in favor of what I feel is preferable, and also stepping back and acknowledging what is or isn't realistic. I can't assume anybody wants to or is able to juggle these two lines of discussion at the same time. So, I'm able to say that I'm not surprised that Mike is the way he is, but I also will criticize him for being that way if or when I feel that way.

The only thing I would question about that is that you only mention about how Mike is...

Now Mike clearly is business orientated, has been used to doing things his own way, can be difficult to deal with, thinks that after the last 14 years he has the right to use the BBs name etc.

But how about how Melinda and the rest of Brian`s camp is?

Since 1998 there have been numerous derogatory comments about Mike and the other Beach Boys and the statements have come out about how Brian would never reunite with the other members. This year was seen as a business opportunity though (and maybe they felt that Brian almost needed The Beach Boys name again) so suddenly all was forgotten as long as they did it their way in terms of the album and the touring. Obviously by changing the original agreement from 50 to 75 shows and then wanting to add more again they have moved the goalposts and presumably expected Mike to go along with it.

Both sides seem slightly nightmarish to me and they were always likely to butt heads at some point.

When I'm talking about how I would rate or judge Mike, I'm thinking more about how the BB's decisions have been for the fans. Mike has done far more to sour fans on himself than Brian ever has, even setting aside the fact that they wrote the music we love. Even if we just look at later artistic and logistic decisions, I think the actions that have been taken over the years weight heavily against Mike. He doesn't deserve all the ad hominem attacks over the years, and sometimes has been incorrectly blamed for things or his actions or opinions have been exaggerated. But a lot of the criticism, meaning the fair, non-ad hominem criticism, of Mike over the years has been, in my view, valid.

I'm sure Brian's camp is not easy to work with, even if you're not a Beach Boy. But Mike's camp is probably difficult to work with too. They all made it work this year, so if they really do care about the fans like they say, they can make that happen again later this year or next year. The thing is, Brian and Al seem to be trying to do just that, and Mike isn't on board apparently.

[Shady]

The wives spoiled the reunion. As could be expected.

Wives always spoil everything!!

 

Yeah, keep it in the kitchen ladies 

[Ziggyvp]

Brian and Al and company dont need MIKE and Bruce Plain and Simple

[Wirestone]

And Ian, yes, Brian's situation is weird. But it's not like the Landy era. He chose his wife. And he trusts her to do what's best for him. And he likes his band. So therefore, even though I don't consider myself a Brianista, he should tell Mike that either The Beach Boys proceed together or "The Beach Boys" won't be an active touring group anymore.

He chose Landy too. And Mike Love. Brian always surrounds himself with slightly overbearing handlers/mouthpieces who take all the blame whenever anything goes wrong, tho he actually is the one passive-aggressively controlling the strings. The roles and figures change at his whim, and there isn't one person in there now who wouldn't assume the villain role in Brian-fan eyes, if he cast them aside tomorrow, including Melinda.

True, but perhaps a step too far. The issue with these overbearing types is how much advantage they take of Brian, and how far that relationship goes. Melinda, for all her faults, seems to have ultimately found a good balance. Landy had a decent balance at the beginning, but went off the deep end toward the end, and arguably damaged Brian permanently.

But the pattern -- Brian enabling lots of hangers on to provide static so he can float along obliviously -- is well established. You have no argument from me there.

[SurfRiderHawaii]

Did somebody say "shady"? ...

Seriously though Mike's daughter put an interesting spin on things. Maybe Mike's had enough of Brian's "people"

Having met Mike Love, and personally experienced his "shady" vibe, it's hard to believe it's not the other way around.
I was backstage/dressing room area and it was mostly all "Mike" people.  Brian and band went straight to the bus. Then Al and Dave.
The Mike/Bruce entourage left milling about.

1) The suggestion by Brian's rep were for local press releases where the Mike/Bruce show was booked.  Not a National Press release in the LA Times.  Mike and his rep made the decision to go National in every way.

2) The Mike/Bruce shows could have been rescheduled but with dates booked and band in wait, I understand them going forth.

Bottom Line:  I don't think there was anything shady here at all.  Just some poor communication between parties. At this point, Mike and Bruce need to do their shows and Brian should start on the one last Beach Boys album he said he wanted to make.  Finish that and then Brian can go out again with the real Beach Boys and promote the new album on tour.

This is a mild bump compared to their prior lawsuits and drama.  It will blow over.

[Cam Mott]

So therefore, even though I don't consider myself a Brianista, he should tell Mike that either The Beach Boys proceed together or "The Beach Boys" won't be an active touring group anymore.

Brian could only do that if Al and Carl's Estate's attorney both agree.

[Paulos]

'To sum it up, they blew it, they blew it consistently, they continue to blow it, it is tragic and this pathological problem caused The Beach Boys' greatest music to be so underrated by the general public'

Jack got it spot on. This whole situation has now gotten completely out of hand and threatens to undo all the good work of the past year.

[SurfRiderHawaii]

So therefore, even though I don't consider myself a Brianista, he should tell Mike that either The Beach Boys proceed together or "The Beach Boys" won't be an active touring group anymore.

Brian could only do that if Al and Carl's Estate's attorney both agree.

Could happen (and it should at some point) but I think Brian is a class act and would not initiate (with Al/Carl estate) such action with the Mike/Bruce show on tour right now (though they always seem perceptually "on tour").
And that would probably blow anything from happening in 2013.

[Jim V.]

So therefore, even though I don't consider myself a Brianista, he should tell Mike that either The Beach Boys proceed together or "The Beach Boys" won't be an active touring group anymore.

Brian could only do that if Al and Carl's Estate's attorney both agree.

Obviously. And I have this odd feeling that Al would go along with Brian. And though Carl's vote is a toss-up I'm figuring they are more likely to go long with their brother-in-law than Mike Love.

[Shady]

'To sum it up, they blew it, they blew it consistently, they continue to blow it, it is tragic and this pathological problem caused The Beach Boys' greatest music to be so underrated by the general public'

Jack got it spot on. This whole situation has now gotten completely out of hand and threatens to undo all the good work of the past year.

I love that quote.

Spot on indeed

[SMiLE Brian]

I honestly don't understand what Mike and Bruce get out of touring small venues, the money can't be that great for guys wealthy as them.

[Dave in KC]

Mike realizes the big venues could not possibly go on and on, whereas his M/B band could and will. Plus, now with Stamos up front again and those other guys gone, the band looks much less geriatric than this Summer.

[ontor pertawst]

There are whispers of incorporating Dave Coulier into the act to boost credibility with the young, groovy demographic that thinks Dave Coulier is, and I quote: "outta sight."

[Letsgoawayforawhile]

There are whispers of incorporating Dave Coulier into the act to boost credibility with the young, groovy demographic that thinks Dave Coulier is, and I quote: "outta sight."

"Cut It Out"

[I. Spaceman]

Melinda, for all her faults, seems to have ultimately found a good balance.

I agree, tho many, and I am not speaking of fans, disagree.