place for compiling any new information on a next BB album

[AndrewHickey]

TWGMTR was — for the most part — ghost-produced by J. Thomas.

I enjoy the album quite a bit, and find the vinyl sequence very satisfying.  

There will be a new studio album in 2013.

Don't let 2012's malaise confuse the issue.

Not trying to question ESQ here, nor am I trying to phil the thread with dispair, but just curious:

Can you elaborate a little here?  Is this talk of a new album based on fact or wishful thinking?

Yeah. It's weird to see this after Andrew G. Doe said the opposite.

Looking back, I *think* AGD has just ruled out the possibility of a new tour, not of a new album. And both AGD and David Beard are usually right, but both have been wrong before.

My own gut feeling is it won't happen, but I'd be *very* interested to know who's been saying what to whom (though totally understand that things like that can't be made public), and David's certainty on the matter has raised my estimate of its probability significantly.

[seltaeb1012002]

Any reports about Brian being in the lab the past few months? Been pretty quiet from his side, apart from that Christmas show he did with Al.

[drbeachboy]

A Rick Rubin/Beach Boys album would never see completion. The key to producing the Beach Boys is the ability to complete a project with bloodshed or lawsuits, and for whatver reason Joe Thomas has been able to do that twice. With Love's apparent distaste for some of those in Brian's camp (I take that only from Ambha's comments post tour) I think we can rule out any of his band members producing an album. Also, add me to the list that found much of teh material on TWGMTR more compelling and honest than that on TLOS (i.e., the closing suite vs. . Southern California/MAD--although it is really splitting hairs).

If I recall correctly, wasn't Amba's comments directed towards his management people? Personally, from the first comments from the group when TWGMTR came out, I always believed that their would be another album. I'm sure David would not of announced it here, if we was not reasonably sure of it. With the doldrum of Winter starting to kick in, this news gives me something good to look forward to this Summer.

[Myk Luhv]

I think it could be weird but interesting if Steve Fisk produced The Beach Boys but maybe that's just because I dig his work on Beat Happening's Jamboree and Black Candy...

[Sheriff John Stone]

Follow the money. Again, I'd be looking at Capitol Records.

One thing we already know is that it's already the middle of January, so forget a summer release. The best case scenario would be a Christmas release. Hey, how about a Christmas album?

[Pretty Funky]

Without going back looking at the threads, wasn't a lot of TWGMTR done after February 2012 for the June release?

Also the mention some time back about a 3 album deal with Capitol. That could be TWGMTR, C50 Live and now a new 2013 release right?

[Jim V.]

Agree with SmileBrian.  I never listen to any solo work by Brian. Loving Postcard from California and "I think about you often" and "POB."
Drivin, by the way, on PFC is better than BIM; why?  Dave's solo is louder. Don't fetishize the master Brian's art as the only art. Al, Bruce, Mike, and Dave can write some good songs.

Then let them. As I said before, I don't care who does what, so long as the finished result is good.
But I've seen very little evidence of your claim. Mike's work has been mediocre *at best* since Still Cruisin' at the latest -- and I'd argue since long before. He does have a track record of being able to write commercial lyrics, but his work in the last twenty-five-plus years hasn't really demonstrated it.
Bruce has the ability to write good stuff, but has never really chosen to use it for the Beach Boys, with one or two notable exceptions.
Al has never been much of a songwriter -- most of his stuff is incredibly derivative, and he writes very little. I enjoyed his solo album, but half of it is covers and remakes, and the other half might as well be.
And as for Dave -- I find his solo stuff literally unlistenable because of the production, so I can't comment on his songwriting. And while I'm glad that he's been able to rejoin the band and finally get some reparation for the horrible way he was treated, and agree he adds a lot to the stage shows, he's had little or no input into any of the music I love the Beach Boys for (I basically don't ever listen to the pre-All Summer Long albums). He's a good guitarist, and has a very good stage presence, but as a listener I honestly couldn't care less if he has any involvement with any future album (though again I hope he does just from the point of view of rectifying an injustice done to someone who seems a genuinely nice person).

What I want is to hear more great music -- I don't really care who it is who does what to make that great music. Brian has written maybe as many as a hundred of my very favourite songs, and hundreds more good or okay ones. The other four between them have written, without the help of Brian or his brothers, *maybe* as many as ten songs I'd miss if I never heard them again. I absolutely think that if Dave, say, writes a song as good as God Only Knows, it should be on any future album. But I also think that the material for a new album, were there to be one, should be decided on merit, and just purely statistically the chances are that if the surviving Beach Boys were to record ,say, thirty new tracks, and say the ten best were chosen, at least nine of those ten would be Brian songs.

Drivin' *is* better than Beaches In Mind, incidentally -- you're quite correct there. Though I could do without the middle eight with all the references to other songs...

I'm totally with you here, Andrew. I'm all for the other guys bringing stuff to the table, and it should be included if it's of high quality. But chances are they aren't gonna come up with the goods. And Brian more likely will. And I think they are ok with that. I'm sure maybe Al would like a song or two per album and maybe Bruce woulda liked a spot but I doubt it's a big deal.

And I gotta say I don't understand the obsession with David Marks and "Stowaway". When I saw the group last year it was great to see all of them (including Dave) and it's neat that he's on the latest album. But lets face the facts, he has no writing credits in 50 years of Beach Boys releases, so why start now? I honestly have no interest in mellow blues rock coming from a former teenage star on a new Beach Boys album. I'm sure he's a wonderful guy, but as far as The Beach Boys go, gimme more Brian, more Al, more Bruce, even more Mike. Dave can be there doing his thing, but he was never a front liner. It's not fetishizing Brian's work to want more of it. It's that we know the man is more likely to come up with the goods than the others. There's a reason most of us look most forward to Brian and Dennis songs: more often than not these guys put out great work. Lots and lots of people agree.

[Micha]

I don't understand why TLOS is looked at as this great example of Brian's songwriting and performing, where TWGMTR isn't. In my opinion, his singing is much better on TWGMTR as is the fact that Mike, Al, and Bruce also got to split the leads up. The background vocals and harmonies? No doubt I'll take The Beach Boys over Brian's group any day of the week.

That's probably because Brian's vocals on TLOS were his best in a long long time. A friend of mine - who is rather unbiased as he's not a BB fan and whom I always torture with new BW stuff - said at the time that Brian was singing very good there "for a change".

Brian's vocals on TWGMTR aren't bad either (except the mumbled first verse of Isn't It Time) but maybe the autotune did take some emotion out of it after all. They are IMHO not better than on TLOS.

The songwriting is about equal, I think. "Summer's Gone" is as spectacular as "Midnight's another Day", and both albums have low points, though TLOS has no song that makes me cringe like "Bill And Sue". TWGMTR's great asset are the BBs...

I'll admit my tastes don't line up perfectly with most people on this board on this -- I find Summer's Gone an almost unlistenable dirge, for example (though the backing track, sans vocals, is more impressive) while I think The Private Life Of Bill And Sue is one of the best things on the album.

Ha, that opinion is the absolute opposite of mine! I think The Private Life Of Bill And Sue is the worst BW song ever released, and Summer's Gone is up to par with Pet Sounds! (Then again, my opinion ain't the absolute truth either of course.)

[I. Spaceman]

And I think Summer's Gone and Bill And Sue are both great and I love how varied Brian's songs are in terms of both mood and theme. Isn't that CA-RAAAAAAZY?

[SMiLE Brian]

Agreed with sweetdudejim about David Marks, great live guitarist and person, but he is really an after thought in the full 50 year BBs story. David was nowhere near the group's greatest albums, and lets be honest, he didn't do much beside rhythm guitar and never fitting in the vocal blend. Murry screwed him for sure, but overrating him isn't the answer either.

[pixletwin]

Agreed with sweetdudejim about David Marks, great live guitarist and person, but he is really an after thought in the full 50 year BBs story. David was nowhere near the group's greatest albums, and lets be honest, he didn't do much beside rhythm guitar and never fitting in the vocal blend. Murry screwed him for sure, but overrating him isn't the answer either.

To be fair, most people would consider the work he is on to be among their greatest.

[SMiLE Brian]

Agreed with sweetdudejim about David Marks, great live guitarist and person, but he is really an after thought in the full 50 year BBs story. David was nowhere near the group's greatest albums, and lets be honest, he didn't do much beside rhythm guitar and never fitting in the vocal blend. Murry screwed him for sure, but overrating him isn't the answer either.

To be fair, most people would consider the work he is on to be among their greatest.

Agreed about that with the early singles, he just wasn't there when the group was at the 1964 to 1967 peak.

[the professor]

I am going to go back to the University to teach, and when I get home and turn on the computer again, I am going to hope that the comments diminishing the accomplishment, artistry, and current contributions of David Marks were just some sort of illusion or technical glitch. If that is not so, then in the future please, those of you holding these beliefs,  put some epigrammatic warning at the head of your message,  such as "the following comments will be utterly devoid of aesthetic and scholarly merit," so that I, and other refined critical thinkers, can discard them quickly.

[AndrewHickey]

I am going to go back to the University to teach, and when I get home and turn on the computer again, I am going to hope that the comments diminishing the accomplishment, artistry, and current contributions of David Marks were just some sort of illusion or technical glitch. If that is not so, then in the future please, those of you holding these beliefs,  put some epigrammatic warning at the head of your message,  such as "the following comments will be utterly devoid of aesthetic and scholarly merit," so that I, and other refined critical thinkers, can discard them quickly.

Nobody has diminished any of those things one iota. It's simply a fact that David Marks has never written a song for a Beach Boys album, and so there's no particular reason why anyone who likes the Beach Boys' songs should enjoy his songwriting. Likewise, it's simply a fact that on most of the work that is generally regarded as the band's best -- albums like Smile, Pet Sounds, Sunflower, singles like Good Vibrations, I Get Around, California Girls -- David Marks was not a member of the band at all.

Everybody has emphasised how good he is as a live guitarist -- and he is -- and that they're glad to see him back in the band. I was extremely glad to see him with Mike & Bruce in 2008, and thought he added a lot to that show (rather less to the 2012 shows, actually, but he was still a welcome addition), and I would be glad to see him performing with any or all of the others in future shows.

But while David's guitar playing may well have played an important role in the band's early success, he played no role whatsoever in any of the music that actually made me (or, apparently, several of the other people here) Beach Boys fans (with one exception -- he played on In My Room). He has no track record as a songwriter for the band. It is not diminishing his accomplishments to make those simple, factual statements.

And I will gladly put such a header on my own posts, as soon as you start heading your own posts with "I have no respect for the right of others to have an opinion that differs from mine, and I believe my own flawed aesthetic judgements to have greater epistemic status than facts. Due to this overinflated view of myself and my opinions, I feel free to insult and disparage those who disagree with me."

Deal?

[Sheriff John Stone]

I don't want this to sound like a math equation, but...

I figure that Mike Love, over the last 50 years, has at least 50 songs written, demoed, and in the can. Maybe Bruce also has 50. Same with David Marks. Maybe Al has 3.

I have to think that you could take the single best song of the lot from each guy, and it would be at least as good, if not better, than the worst that Brian is bringing to the table. "Daybreak Over The Ocean" is a good example of this, although I thought they could've picked a better Mike song. "The Private Life Of Bill And Sue" and "Beaches In Mind" are OK, but do you think Bruce and/or David didn't have one song - one song! - that couldn't rival those two. I do.

Maybe they (Bruce, David, and Al) could even give Brian a credit to keep his wifeandmanagers happy.

[AndrewHickey]

I don't want this to sound like a math equation, but...

I figure that Mike Love, over the last 50 years, has at least 50 songs written, demoed, and in the can. Maybe Bruce also has 50. Same with David Marks. Maybe Al has 3.

I have to think that you could take the single best song of the lot from each guy, and it would be at least as good, if not better, than the worst that Brian is bringing to the table. "Daybreak Over The Ocean" is a good example of this, although I thought they could've picked a better Mike song. "The Private Life Of Bill And Sue" and "Beaches In Mind" are OK, but do you think Bruce and/or David didn't have one song - one song! - that couldn't rival those two. I do.

The only song we know of that Bruce brought in for That's Why God Made The Radio was She Believes In Love Again, which has already been released. The only song we know of that Al brought in was Waves Of Love, which has already been released and is also not very good. From this (and the fact that Al didn't have enough unreleased songs to fill up his solo album), we can guess that the chances are that neither of them had anything much.

Mike... well, we've heard his unreleased solo albums. It's possible he has some good stuff, but I doubt it.

And David... I've just listened, again, to I Think About You Often, just to be absolutely sure that I wasn't dismissing him out of hand. There's nothing on there that's even remotely interesting, from a songwriting perspective. It's generic blues-rock without any originality whatsoever.

So as I've said before, I'm almost certain that if you took the best ten songs that any of the band had, judged purely on their merits, at least nine would be by Brian, though I'm more than happy to be proved wrong.

[SloopJohnnyB]

Here's an idea.  Maybe the Boys can get together and write a few new songs with all members making some contribution. The success of C50 would certainly provide the inspiration.

The solo material could be re-worked. I think the fans would want to see a few songs from Al/David/Mike/Bruce.

By the way, will this be the 'Rock 'n Roll' album?  If so, it should be great! 

[SMiLE Brian]

Again, it's great that David has fan appreciation after years of bad luck and hard times, but he really didn't much while in the group and he was invisible on the early BBs albums.

[pixletwin]

Again, it's great that David has fan appreciation after years of bad luck and hard times, but he really didn't much while in the group and he was invisible on the early BBs albums.

You may be in for a world of hurt for that.

*ducks for cover*

[Sheriff John Stone]

I don't want this to sound like a math equation, but...

I figure that Mike Love, over the last 50 years, has at least 50 songs written, demoed, and in the can. Maybe Bruce also has 50. Same with David Marks. Maybe Al has 3.

I have to think that you could take the single best song of the lot from each guy, and it would be at least as good, if not better, than the worst that Brian is bringing to the table. "Daybreak Over The Ocean" is a good example of this, although I thought they could've picked a better Mike song. "The Private Life Of Bill And Sue" and "Beaches In Mind" are OK, but do you think Bruce and/or David didn't have one song - one song! - that couldn't rival those two. I do.

The only song we know of that Bruce brought in for That's Why God Made The Radio was She Believes In Love Again, which has already been released. The only song we know of that Al brought in was Waves Of Love, which has already been released and is also not very good. From this (and the fact that Al didn't have enough unreleased songs to fill up his solo album), we can guess that the chances are that neither of them had anything much.

Mike... well, we've heard his unreleased solo albums. It's possible he has some good stuff, but I doubt it.

And David... I've just listened, again, to I Think About You Often, just to be absolutely sure that I wasn't dismissing him out of hand. There's nothing on there that's even remotely interesting, from a songwriting perspective. It's generic blues-rock without any originality whatsoever.

So as I've said before, I'm almost certain that if you took the best ten songs that any of the band had, judged purely on their merits, at least nine would be by Brian, though I'm more than happy to be proved wrong.

Yeah, it was perplexing that Bruce submitted "She Believes In Love Again" to be re-done for such an important NEW album. If that was the only song he submitted, shame on him. But, it still raises the question, for me anyway. Was that the ONLY song he submitted and, more importantly, is that the best song he had/has available. You would think he'd have some nice, emotional ballad sitting around, waiting for The Beach Boys' touch.

Honestly, I'm not familiar enough with David's repertoire to suggest a specific song. But, I mean, just one song?

As far as Al goes, we did some have good debates about the merits of "Waves Of Love", "Don't Fight The Sea", and others of his a year ago. I guess it's a matter of opinion as to the worthiness of his songs. But, like Dave, maybe just one song (!), even a new song or a collaboration in the studio while recording? Just my two cents...again.

[FUN³]

they need steve albini or nick cave to produce the next album. as of late (i mean since the late 70's) the vocal harmonies are too synthetic sounding. they need sh*t to pummel and sound grizzled.

[the professor]

I am going to go back to the University to teach, and when I get home and turn on the computer again, I am going to hope that the comments diminishing the accomplishment, artistry, and current contributions of David Marks were just some sort of illusion or technical glitch. If that is not so, then in the future please, those of you holding these beliefs,  put some epigrammatic warning at the head of your message,  such as "the following comments will be utterly devoid of aesthetic and scholarly merit," so that I, and other refined critical thinkers, can discard them quickly.

Nobody has diminished any of those things one iota. It's simply a fact that David Marks has never written a song for a Beach Boys album, and so there's no particular reason why anyone who likes the Beach Boys' songs should enjoy his songwriting. Likewise, it's simply a fact that on most of the work that is generally regarded as the band's best -- albums like Smile, Pet Sounds, Sunflower, singles like Good Vibrations, I Get Around, California Girls -- David Marks was not a member of the band at all.

Everybody has emphasised how good he is as a live guitarist -- and he is -- and that they're glad to see him back in the band. I was extremely glad to see him with Mike & Bruce in 2008, and thought he added a lot to that show (rather less to the 2012 shows, actually, but he was still a welcome addition), and I would be glad to see him performing with any or all of the others in future shows.

But while David's guitar playing may well have played an important role in the band's early success, he played no role whatsoever in any of the music that actually made me (or, apparently, several of the other people here) Beach Boys fans (with one exception -- he played on In My Room). He has no track record as a songwriter for the band. It is not diminishing his accomplishments to make those simple, factual statements.

And I will gladly put such a header on my own posts, as soon as you start heading your own posts with "I have no respect for the right of others to have an opinion that differs from mine, and I believe my own flawed aesthetic judgements to have greater epistemic status than facts. Due to this overinflated view of myself and my opinions, I feel free to insult and disparage those who disagree with me."

Deal?

Andrew, Reading posts like yours is why I feel so happy to be a part of this list. I really love you guys, I have to say. We remind me of the 19th-century Philologists who would spar with each other over historical and linguistic change as if the survival of the universe depended on it.                  
I can only hope that the energy we are generating will carry over to the BB as they compose the new album that we keep hoping for. I have another class to teach, so more later. And sincere thanks for the playful fellowship; I never knew that strangers could be so big a part of one's delight and that a message board could be such a comforting, humane place to be. I suppose it's a bit like that show Cheers, but no one knows your name , while they know your rhetorical style and critical beliefs. I hope you pardon my sentimentality, but I mean it.

[the captain]

Re TWGMTR:

... I love how varied Brian's songs are in terms of both mood and theme.

Me, too. I like at least parts of every BW solo album, and (I think unlike you) I really like TLOS. But one of the most refreshing things about this new album was that it was just an album. We can all rhapsodize about the closing songs' suite, but part of what makes me love that last group of tunes (the first two of which I think are far better than the third, btw) are the songs that come before them. Isn't It Time, especially, but several of the tunes kept the album flowing and enjoyable without trying to shoehorn yet another concept.

Whatever the band does next, whatever instrumentalists, singers or producers they employ, I just hope they record the songs they have and want to record without bowing to pressure to make anything more than a record. No pretensions of high art are necessary: good pop or rock music is already high art as it is.

[the professor]

I started this topic to generate excitement and critical exploration of the possible dimensions of art that we might see from the BB on this , still chimerical album.  I think we have been dynamically successful in exploring that so far, and we are ready to explore in detail the art and musicality (and the personal, BB politics) of whatever we wind up getting. I myself can debate in a vacuum no longer.  As for the "other" BB: many recall great home runs in history but not always those who were on base, whose roles, though lesser, are part of the history of triumph.  Recall that the BB did DIA and Brian told Mike he wanted "Dave's energy" on the track; to me that is touching and profound, and, as I have said before, "Dave's energy," broadly manifested, has made the reunion for me. I hope it finds its rightful place on the album.

[DonnyL]

they need steve albini or nick cave to produce the next album. as of late (i mean since the late 70's) the vocal harmonies are too synthetic sounding. they need sh*t to pummel and sound grizzled.

Gabe Roth !

or Nigel Godrich. or the guy from Toe Rag.