Another S**t stirring article in The Independent today !

[HeyJude]

That magic of the reunion only works with all of them there, including Mike.

Right.  The magic was there during the reunion....but the reunion is now over.  Mike is moving on with his own band, clearly not labeling it as a reunion.  The world goes on and Mike isn't stopping for anyone or anything. 

As long as there is the ability to put together all five surviving Beach Boys with a great backing band and have them do a FREAKING 61-SONG SET like they did last night, I'm more than willing to say that that is now the standard by which anything that comes after it will be measured, in terms of live shows anyway.

The more I think about this, the more I realize just how impossible it is to think that this current arrangement could possibly go on forever.  It just can't.  It's as if we all just attended the best house party in the world and we want the host and hostess to throw a party every weekend now.  Easy for us to say...we're just attending.  We're not the ones planning it, preparing for it and paying for it.  They'll probaly reunite again...just not right now.  Until then, things go back to how they were.  The band has survived Dennis' passing and then Carl's passing without even blinking an eye; they still marched on.  Why would this reunion suddenly change the gameplan?

I understand this sentiment. But I refer back to some earlier posts where I mentioned that I don't think wanting more reunion shows is some kind of pie-in-the-sky, wishful thinking, can't-get-over-it sentiment when three of the five guys are willing to do it and they aren't getting any younger. Nobody believed this reunion would or could go on forever. In fact, part of the reason I for one have a bit of a sense of urgency about doing more reunion stuff is because the time is not on anybody's side. If they are ever inclined to do more reunion stuff, 2013 is better than waiting until the 55th or 60th anniversary.

For me, the sadness about possibly no future reunion shows and Mike going back out is not about some large conceptual thing where they need to "go out on a high note" or "not tarnish the name" or anything like that. It's a very immediate, functional issue of a band that currently has a ready-to-go awesome lineup of players and songs who could very easily do more of these shows, and three of the guys at least willing to do it (and I'd wager Bruce probably wouldn't mind doing more reunion stuff either, and if he does mind, well, that's a whole seperate discussion regarding Bruce and his weird glee about a 2/5 Beach Boys lineup).

If Brian didn't want to do more shows, or if the shows had only been so-so, or if David Marks and Al Jardine had a prior committment to go to carpentry school; if there were any apparent hindrances other than apparently Mike not wanting to do it (and Mike certainly isn't the reason in and of itself; he has reasons he may not want to do it), then any wishes for more shows would indeed be wishful thinking, living in la-la land, etc.

[Sheriff John Stone]

If Brian didn't want to do more shows, or if the shows had only been so-so, or if David Marks and Al Jardine had a prior committment to go to carpentry school; if there were any apparent hindrances other than apparently Mike not wanting to do it (and Mike certainly isn't the reason in and of itself; he has reasons he may not want to do it), then any wishes for more shows would indeed be wishful thinking, living in la-la land, etc.

HeyJude, I really enjoy your writing and reading your thoughts. But, could you please stop saying that Mike doesn't want the reunion to continue. Please.

I know you said "apparently" in the above post, but you are insinuating that it's true. I have expressed my displeasure with people taking certain quotes as fact - due the history of The Beach Boys showing us that. They are all full of sh--. But, in this specific case, Mike said that he WANTED to record another Beach Boys album with Brian. And, he NEVER said that he didn't want to continue touring with Brian, Al, and David. He was only referring to the already booked Mike & Bruce shows happening IMMEDIATELY after the reunion shows are over. Come on, you know better than that. I don't understand why you keep going down that road.

[Awesoman]

I just feel there is more going on here than any of us fans currently know.  We found out a few months ago that Mike was going to carry on with his "Mike & Bruce" show after the reunion tour was done.  So why is it now a problem for everyone, including the other Beach Boys themselves?  Something just does not add up...

[HeyJude]

If Brian didn't want to do more shows, or if the shows had only been so-so, or if David Marks and Al Jardine had a prior committment to go to carpentry school; if there were any apparent hindrances other than apparently Mike not wanting to do it (and Mike certainly isn't the reason in and of itself; he has reasons he may not want to do it), then any wishes for more shows would indeed be wishful thinking, living in la-la land, etc.

HeyJude, I really enjoy your writing and reading your thoughts. But, could you please stop saying that Mike doesn't want the reunion to continue. Please.

I know you said "apparently" in the above post, but you are insinuating that it's true. I have expressed my displeasure with people taking certain quotes as fact - due the history of The Beach Boys showing us that. They are all full of sh--. But, in this specific case, Mike said that he WANTED to record another Beach Boys album with Brian. And, he NEVER said that he didn't want to continue touring with Brian, Al, and David. He was only referring to the already booked Mike & Bruce shows happening IMMEDIATELY after the reunion shows are over. Come on, you know better than that. I don't understand why you keep going down that road.

Thanks for your well-thought out words as well. I do dig this type of discussion. I do try to throw in words like allegedy/apparently and so on to try to indicate something that I don't have irrefutable evidence of. Let me be more specific: Jon Stebbins' recent comments concerning offers for future shows, coupled the few statements we do have from Al and Brian, indicate that they wished to carry on in a more immediate term with reunion shows and they feel Mike does not.

Let me pull a few pertinent quotes from the "press release":

"The post 50th anniversary configuration will not include Brian Wilson, Al Jardine and David Marks. The 50th Reunion Tour was designed to be a set tour with a beginning and an end to mark a special 50-year milestone for the band."

To me, the above sentences indicate that any post-50th anniversary configuration will not include the other three. It doesn't say "the handfull of shows already booked for October will not include Brian/Al/David." It certainly doesn't emphatically rule out any more reunion shows. But it's a more definitive statement than speaking specifically to a few October shows. So I don't think Mike's statement was meant to only refer to the already-booked October shows.

Another quote:

Several North American dates in October have already gone on sale and concert dates will continue to be announced for The Beach Boys which include Rock and Roll Hall of Famers Mike Love and Bruce Johnston supported musically and vocally by Christian Love, Randell Kirsch, Tim Bonhomme, John Cowsill and Scott Totten, who serves as musical director.

Again, this clearly states that *additional* shows with this configuration will continue to be announced.

Clearly, Mike has not ruled out ever doing more albums and tours with the guys. But as time goes by, the chances of getting this crew back together will not increase, at least in my opinion.  Also, if Mike had a strong feeling that they will do more shows and albums at some point, he could have put some bit in that press release vaguely referring to simply *hoping* to do more recording and touring. That he didn't even include a small statement along those lines tells me he's not even leaning strongly towards that, or at least not willing to commit to something else, which is fine. It is true that shows need to be booked well in advance, so if we start seeing him booking shows soon into 2013, that tells me he's not interested in any reunion touring soon.

[Sheriff John Stone]

If Brian didn't want to do more shows, or if the shows had only been so-so, or if David Marks and Al Jardine had a prior committment to go to carpentry school; if there were any apparent hindrances other than apparently Mike not wanting to do it (and Mike certainly isn't the reason in and of itself; he has reasons he may not want to do it), then any wishes for more shows would indeed be wishful thinking, living in la-la land, etc.

HeyJude, I really enjoy your writing and reading your thoughts. But, could you please stop saying that Mike doesn't want the reunion to continue. Please.

I know you said "apparently" in the above post, but you are insinuating that it's true. I have expressed my displeasure with people taking certain quotes as fact - due the history of The Beach Boys showing us that. They are all full of sh--. But, in this specific case, Mike said that he WANTED to record another Beach Boys album with Brian. And, he NEVER said that he didn't want to continue touring with Brian, Al, and David. He was only referring to the already booked Mike & Bruce shows happening IMMEDIATELY after the reunion shows are over. Come on, you know better than that. I don't understand why you keep going down that road.

Thanks for your well-thought out words as well. I do dig this type of discussion. I do try to throw in words like allegedy/apparently and so on to try to indicate something that I don't have irrefutable evidence of. Let me be more specific: Jon Stebbins' recent comments concerning offers for future shows, coupled the few statements we do have from Al and Brian, indicate that they wished to carry on in a more immediate term with reunion shows and they feel Mike does not.

Let me pull a few pertinent quotes from the "press release":

"The post 50th anniversary configuration will not include Brian Wilson, Al Jardine and David Marks. The 50th Reunion Tour was designed to be a set tour with a beginning and an end to mark a special 50-year milestone for the band."

To me, the above sentences indicate that any post-50th anniversary configuration will not include the other three. It doesn't say "the handfull of shows already booked for October will not include Brian/Al/David." It certainly doesn't emphatically rule out any more reunion shows. But it's a more definitive statement than speaking specifically to a few October shows. So I don't think Mike's statement was meant to only refer to the already-booked October shows.

Another quote:

Several North American dates in October have already gone on sale and concert dates will continue to be announced for The Beach Boys which include Rock and Roll Hall of Famers Mike Love and Bruce Johnston supported musically and vocally by Christian Love, Randell Kirsch, Tim Bonhomme, John Cowsill and Scott Totten, who serves as musical director.

Again, this clearly states that *additional* shows with this configuration will continue to be announced.

Clearly, Mike has not ruled out ever doing more albums and tours with the guys. But as time goes by, the chances of getting this crew back together will not increase, at least in my opinion.  Also, if Mike had a strong feeling that they will do more shows and albums at some point, he could have put some bit in that press release vaguely referring to simply *hoping* to do more recording and touring. That he didn't even include a small statement along those lines tells me he's not even leaning strongly towards that, or at least not willing to commit to something else, which is fine. It is true that shows need to be booked well in advance, so if we start seeing him booking shows soon into 2013, that tells me he's not interested in any reunion touring soon.

Well, you can't say that I didn't ask ya....

I'm starting to burn out on this subject (not that I can't be re-charged by a boneheaded post), so I can't engage in much more dialogue regarding this mess. But, I would like to ask you a fairly straightforward question. But first, imagine - or assume(?) - that this could happen.

What if Brian knocked on Mike's hotel door, and the two of them spent a few moments talking. And, Brian said to Mike, "You know, Mike, I can't believe how much I enjoyed this tour. I really didn't want to do it, and I had my doubts, but I'm glad we did it. We were pretty good for a bunch of old men weren't we? I actually had such a good time that I wouldn't mind doing more touring like this. What do YOU think about that?"

If that would happen (imagine it happening), and knowing what you know about The Beach Boys, what do think Mike would say to Brian?

[Wirestone]

That Petridis review is hyperbolic nonsense. As is basically everything of his I've seen.

Because, really, writing a review of a Christmas record is really the place to suggest the lead singer is being held hostage by his wife and managers.

Just say you don't like the freaking album. It's fine.

[Justin]

I understand this sentiment. But I refer back to some earlier posts where I mentioned that I don't think wanting more reunion shows is some kind of pie-in-the-sky, wishful thinking, can't-get-over-it sentiment when three of the five guys are willing to do it and they aren't getting any younger. Nobody believed this reunion would or could go on forever. In fact, part of the reason I for one have a bit of a sense of urgency about doing more reunion stuff is because the time is not on anybody's side. If they are ever inclined to do more reunion stuff, 2013 is better than waiting until the 55th or 60th anniversary.

For me, the sadness about possibly no future reunion shows and Mike going back out is not about some large conceptual thing where they need to "go out on a high note" or "not tarnish the name" or anything like that. It's a very immediate, functional issue of a band that currently has a ready-to-go awesome lineup of players and songs who could very easily do more of these shows, and three of the guys at least willing to do it (and I'd wager Bruce probably wouldn't mind doing more reunion stuff either, and if he does mind, well, that's a whole seperate discussion regarding Bruce and his weird glee about a 2/5 Beach Boys lineup).

If Brian didn't want to do more shows, or if the shows had only been so-so, or if David Marks and Al Jardine had a prior committment to go to carpentry school; if there were any apparent hindrances other than apparently Mike not wanting to do it (and Mike certainly isn't the reason in and of itself; he has reasons he may not want to do it), then any wishes for more shows would indeed be wishful thinking, living in la-la land, etc.

I appreciate your response.

But how much do these issues really weigh in when you have to perhaps consider the fact that although Mike enjoyed himself on this tour he does not necessarily 1) like the large crew/stage/setup to perform shows 2) like the costs of such a tour and 3) enjoy walking on eggshells near Brian and/or his managers/people?  Time not being on their side is a valid concern but when Mike is possibly faced with these much larger issues it is no surprise that he'd want a break from that for a while.  

[Justin]

Clearly, Mike has not ruled out ever doing more albums and tours with the guys. But as time goes by, the chances of getting this crew back together will not increase, at least in my opinion.  Also, if Mike had a strong feeling that they will do more shows and albums at some point, he could have put some bit in that press release vaguely referring to simply *hoping* to do more recording and touring. That he didn't even include a small statement along those lines tells me he's not even leaning strongly towards that, or at least not willing to commit to something else, which is fine. It is true that shows need to be booked well in advance, so if we start seeing him booking shows soon into 2013, that tells me he's not interested in any reunion touring soon.

It looks to me that you're looking at this at a very emotional level.  Glass half empty kind of thing.  The press release is meticulously worded so that no confusion can occur for any dopey fan out there who thinks the show they're seeing at the Red Roof Inn is still the reunion show that toured this summer.  The press release does not rule anything out for future plans but mainly rules out any misconception for any shows in the forseeable future.  It needed to be said.  The way it came across may have been taken badly but that's nothing a new press release 3 or 6 months from now announcing a new reunion tour won't fix.  We should all stop looking at this as some end of the world doomsday thing but rather with just a little bit more foresight and rational thinking.

[ivy]

I just feel there is more going on here than any of us fans currently know.  We found out a few months ago that Mike was going to carry on with his "Mike & Bruce" show after the reunion tour was done.  So why is it now a problem for everyone, including the other Beach Boys themselves?  Something just does not add up...

Yeah, there is certainly some inciting factor that we aren't seeing. Maybe a deal that is hinged on the reunion guys being the only group that is called the Beach Boys from now on? I don't think for half a second that Brian Wilson feels sad he's not invited to Nutty Jerry's. I could believe that Al/Dave/Brian don't want Mike watering down their newly reestablished street cred and did this to force him to cancel the upcoming gigs. But even that seems like a stretch. There has to be something more.

w/r/t the discussion of Mike not wanting to tour with the reunion guys in the future, I can't believe that that is anywhere near true. Let's not forget Mike's speech at the Cal Saga Grammy Museum show. The Beach Boys is Mike's whole life, personal and professional. He gives credit to Brian at every opportunity. He knows what a this reunion has meant to the fans and I'm confident that it has meant infinitely more to him.

I would bet good money that this all comes down to poor communication and binding contracts. It will be a blip in the BB history within a year.

Whether the reunion Beach Boys record or tour again will all come down to Brian('s camp.)

[Cam Mott]

Why can't we just take this factual statement as a factual statement at the time it was given? What it says is all it means. Brian, Al and David agreed to set amount of dates in a given timeframe. The reunion tour is coming to the established end and the non-reunion dates are about to begin. How is it bad timing to state what was agreed to especially when there is already confusion because of the reunion tour.

Frankly it seems childish of the Brian and Al to presume something other than they agreed to. And what the heck is up with all of their presumptuous statements and linking to dumbass "news" and insulting petitions. That petition flat out insults Mike and they are sharing it when the statement that it references says only what they agreed to. What is this, kindergarten. Lordy Miss Mitchell, I'm embarrassed for them.

[HeyJude]

I understand this sentiment. But I refer back to some earlier posts where I mentioned that I don't think wanting more reunion shows is some kind of pie-in-the-sky, wishful thinking, can't-get-over-it sentiment when three of the five guys are willing to do it and they aren't getting any younger. Nobody believed this reunion would or could go on forever. In fact, part of the reason I for one have a bit of a sense of urgency about doing more reunion stuff is because the time is not on anybody's side. If they are ever inclined to do more reunion stuff, 2013 is better than waiting until the 55th or 60th anniversary.

For me, the sadness about possibly no future reunion shows and Mike going back out is not about some large conceptual thing where they need to "go out on a high note" or "not tarnish the name" or anything like that. It's a very immediate, functional issue of a band that currently has a ready-to-go awesome lineup of players and songs who could very easily do more of these shows, and three of the guys at least willing to do it (and I'd wager Bruce probably wouldn't mind doing more reunion stuff either, and if he does mind, well, that's a whole seperate discussion regarding Bruce and his weird glee about a 2/5 Beach Boys lineup).

If Brian didn't want to do more shows, or if the shows had only been so-so, or if David Marks and Al Jardine had a prior committment to go to carpentry school; if there were any apparent hindrances other than apparently Mike not wanting to do it (and Mike certainly isn't the reason in and of itself; he has reasons he may not want to do it), then any wishes for more shows would indeed be wishful thinking, living in la-la land, etc.

I appreciate your response.

But how much do these issues really weigh in when you have to perhaps consider the fact that although Mike enjoyed himself on this tour he does not necessarily 1) like the large crew/stage/setup to perform shows 2) like the costs of such a tour and 3) enjoy walking on eggshells near Brian and/or his managers/people?  Time not being on their side is a valid concern but when Mike is possibly faced with these much larger issues it is no surprise that he'd want a break from that for a while.  

I think all of the issues you raise may well very be some of if not most of the main issues that would lead to Mike wanting to step away from more reunion shows right now. The question is whether any given fan feels that those are valid enough concerns to warrant not doing more reunion shows. Mike sacrificed for the reunion tour, no question. It's all relative of course, as he may have sacrificed more money for less but still substantial money, sacrificed total control over all aspects for some control but still more than most of the people in the organization (the "50 Big Ones" production company is supposedly Brian, Mike, and Joe Thomas), and so on.

Mike may not want to make those sacrifices to make way for amazing additional reunion shows. He can do that, and fans can choose to say that such a decision still paints him in a negative light.

[HeyJude]

Clearly, Mike has not ruled out ever doing more albums and tours with the guys. But as time goes by, the chances of getting this crew back together will not increase, at least in my opinion.  Also, if Mike had a strong feeling that they will do more shows and albums at some point, he could have put some bit in that press release vaguely referring to simply *hoping* to do more recording and touring. That he didn't even include a small statement along those lines tells me he's not even leaning strongly towards that, or at least not willing to commit to something else, which is fine. It is true that shows need to be booked well in advance, so if we start seeing him booking shows soon into 2013, that tells me he's not interested in any reunion touring soon.

It looks to me that you're looking at this at a very emotional level.  Glass half empty kind of thing.  The press release is meticulously worded so that no confusion can occur for any dopey fan out there who thinks the show they're seeing at the Red Roof Inn is still the reunion show that toured this summer.  The press release does not rule anything out for future plans but mainly rules out any misconception for any shows in the forseeable future.  It needed to be said.  The way it came across may have been taken badly but that's nothing a new press release 3 or 6 months from now announcing a new reunion tour won't fix.  We should all stop looking at this as some end of the world doomsday thing but rather with just a little bit more foresight and rational thinking.

I make no assumptions about what the future holds. It's not a doomsday scenario for me. But it also doesn't appear to me that Mike just booked a few shows on his own and is really actively supporting more reunion activity. If that is the case, then that is another artistic decision Mike has chosen to make regarding this band that I feel reflects negatively on him and is a bummer for the band and its fans.

[HeyJude]

Well, you can't say that I didn't ask ya....

I'm starting to burn out on this subject (not that I can't be re-charged by a boneheaded post), so I can't engage in much more dialogue regarding this mess. But, I would like to ask you a fairly straightforward question. But first, imagine - or assume(?) - that this could happen.

What if Brian knocked on Mike's hotel door, and the two of them spent a few moments talking. And, Brian said to Mike, "You know, Mike, I can't believe how much I enjoyed this tour. I really didn't want to do it, and I had my doubts, but I'm glad we did it. We were pretty good for a bunch of old men weren't we? I actually had such a good time that I wouldn't mind doing more touring like this. What do YOU think about that?"

If that would happen (imagine it happening), and knowing what you know about The Beach Boys, what do think Mike would say to Brian?

Good question. My guess is it would be something non-committal, wavering between trying to put a positive spin on it but still coming across as kind of egotistical and interested in the bottom line/profit. Somethink like "Yeah, Brian, I had a good time on the tour too. I'd love to maybe do some more stuff at some point too. But we gotta write some more stuff together, like more upbeat stuff. The show is great, but that band is really expensive. I don't think you're that into doing a lot of gigs all year long. So I'll go out next year, and maybe we'll try to write and record later on, and then maybe we can talk about some more shows."

Nowhere in the answer would Al or David even come up as topics, nor would their possible interest in doing more shows sooner.

[HeyJude]

Why can't we just take this factual statement as a factual statement at the time it was given? What it says is all it means. Brian, Al and David agreed to set amount of dates in a given timeframe. The reunion tour is coming to the established end and the non-reunion dates are about to begin. How is it bad timing to state what was agreed to especially when there is already confusion because of the reunion tour.

Frankly it seems childish of the Brian and Al to presume something other than they agreed to. And what the heck is up with all of their presumptuous statements and linking to dumbass "news" and insulting petitions. That petition flat out insults Mike and they are sharing it when the statement that it references says only what they agreed to. What is this, kindergarten. Lordy Miss Mitchell, I'm embarrassed for them.

Simple: It sounds like Brian, Al, and David *changed their minds* and want to do more reunion gigs. Some fans feel that is the most wonderful decision changing we could ask for. 

[Justin]

I understand this sentiment. But I refer back to some earlier posts where I mentioned that I don't think wanting more reunion shows is some kind of pie-in-the-sky, wishful thinking, can't-get-over-it sentiment when three of the five guys are willing to do it and they aren't getting any younger. Nobody believed this reunion would or could go on forever. In fact, part of the reason I for one have a bit of a sense of urgency about doing more reunion stuff is because the time is not on anybody's side. If they are ever inclined to do more reunion stuff, 2013 is better than waiting until the 55th or 60th anniversary.

For me, the sadness about possibly no future reunion shows and Mike going back out is not about some large conceptual thing where they need to "go out on a high note" or "not tarnish the name" or anything like that. It's a very immediate, functional issue of a band that currently has a ready-to-go awesome lineup of players and songs who could very easily do more of these shows, and three of the guys at least willing to do it (and I'd wager Bruce probably wouldn't mind doing more reunion stuff either, and if he does mind, well, that's a whole seperate discussion regarding Bruce and his weird glee about a 2/5 Beach Boys lineup).

If Brian didn't want to do more shows, or if the shows had only been so-so, or if David Marks and Al Jardine had a prior committment to go to carpentry school; if there were any apparent hindrances other than apparently Mike not wanting to do it (and Mike certainly isn't the reason in and of itself; he has reasons he may not want to do it), then any wishes for more shows would indeed be wishful thinking, living in la-la land, etc.

I appreciate your response.

But how much do these issues really weigh in when you have to perhaps consider the fact that although Mike enjoyed himself on this tour he does not necessarily 1) like the large crew/stage/setup to perform shows 2) like the costs of such a tour and 3) enjoy walking on eggshells near Brian and/or his managers/people?  Time not being on their side is a valid concern but when Mike is possibly faced with these much larger issues it is no surprise that he'd want a break from that for a while. 

I think all of the issues you raise may well very be some of if not most of the main issues that would lead to Mike wanting to step away from more reunion shows right now. The question is whether any given fan feels that those are valid enough concerns to warrant not doing more reunion shows.

So then, we can agree that the reasons above are very plausible for why Mike would want to take a breather from any more reunion shows (and why perhaps he had no problem booking more shows after this tour)?  Well if we're all so very cautious of Brian, Al and Dave's "feelings" about wanting them to continue, shouldn't we also consider Mike's feelings?  If we can agree that these issues are his concerns---why should we FORCE Mike to put them aside and push through with more reunion shows when it still doesn't solve any of those issues (the large scale show, high costs, and dealing with Brian/his peeps)?  Those issues will STILL be there.  Regardless if we do not believe those issues hold any water---they hold water for Mike.  We have to accept that--and most of all respect that.  Why should we respect Brian's wishes and not Mike's?  The secret for this tour was that everyone WANTED to be there.  Everyone wanted to sacrifice their own issues for this to work.  The expiration date for this tour has now passed.  Mike is ready to go back to a less stressful arrangement for a little while.  Is that really so bad?

[Mike's Beard]

Mike's feelings don't count, remember? He's just the balding, no talent hack who ruined Smile and should be pumping gas for a living, blah blah blah.

[Justin]

Why can't we just take this factual statement as a factual statement at the time it was given? What it says is all it means. Brian, Al and David agreed to set amount of dates in a given timeframe. The reunion tour is coming to the established end and the non-reunion dates are about to begin. How is it bad timing to state what was agreed to especially when there is already confusion because of the reunion tour.

Frankly it seems childish of the Brian and Al to presume something other than they agreed to. And what the heck is up with all of their presumptuous statements and linking to dumbass "news" and insulting petitions. That petition flat out insults Mike and they are sharing it when the statement that it references says only what they agreed to. What is this, kindergarten. Lordy Miss Mitchell, I'm embarrassed for them.

Simple: It sounds like Brian, Al, and David *changed their minds* and want to do more reunion gigs. Some fans feel that is the most wonderful decision changing we could ask for. 

Absolutely it is.  Well if all parties are really up for it...why not make a bigger compromise if they REALLY want to continue?  They've done the large scale tour....can they scale it back?  Can they skip the large stage?  Bring the prices down?  Play the casinos once in a while?  It seems that there are two extremes here and no one is suggesting an even middle area for them to work with here.....

[HeyJude]

So then, we can agree that the reasons above are very plausible for why Mike would want to take a breather from any more reunion shows (and why perhaps he had no problem booking more shows after this tour)?  Well if we're all so very cautious of Brian, Al and Dave's "feelings" about wanting them to continue, shouldn't we also consider Mike's feelings?  If we can agree that these issues are his concerns---why should we FORCE Mike to put them aside and push through with more reunion shows when it still doesn't solve any of those issues (the large scale show, high costs, and dealing with Brian/his peeps)?  Those issues will STILL be there.  Regardless if we do not believe those issues hold any water---they hold water for Mike.  We have to accept that--and most of all respect that.  Why should we respect Brian's wishes and not Mike's?  The secret for this tour was that everyone WANTED to be there.  Everyone wanted to sacrifice their own issues for this to work.  The expiration date for this tour has now passed.  Mike is ready to go back to a less stressful arrangement for a little while.  Is that really so bad?

As a fan, I'm obvious biased towards the feelings and decisions of band members that result in more amazing reunion shows. Mike is placing his interests first, presumably. So are all the others. Their interest is in working together as a full group and doing more shows. Mike's interest is in making more money and having more control and less headaches. Makes sense for him, but he is going to be characterized thusly by fans. Of course it's not literally as simple as Mike placing money over everything else, but that certainly *appears* to be part of what's going on if the possible reasons for him not wanting more reunion shows right now that we've discussed are accurate.

[Cam Mott]

After Mike's statement they proclaimed this, right? Mike's statement was before they expressed these desires to continue on the non-reunion tour and started linking to petitions and such and was accurate and according to the wishes the others had approved at the time the statement was given. Is that right?

[HeyJude]

Why can't we just take this factual statement as a factual statement at the time it was given? What it says is all it means. Brian, Al and David agreed to set amount of dates in a given timeframe. The reunion tour is coming to the established end and the non-reunion dates are about to begin. How is it bad timing to state what was agreed to especially when there is already confusion because of the reunion tour.

Frankly it seems childish of the Brian and Al to presume something other than they agreed to. And what the heck is up with all of their presumptuous statements and linking to dumbass "news" and insulting petitions. That petition flat out insults Mike and they are sharing it when the statement that it references says only what they agreed to. What is this, kindergarten. Lordy Miss Mitchell, I'm embarrassed for them.

Simple: It sounds like Brian, Al, and David *changed their minds* and want to do more reunion gigs. Some fans feel that is the most wonderful decision changing we could ask for. 

Absolutely it is.  Well if all parties are really up for it...why not make a bigger compromise if they REALLY want to continue?  They've done the large scale tour....can they scale it back?  Can they skip the large stage?  Bring the prices down?  Play the casinos once in a while?  It seems that there are two extremes here and no one is suggesting an even middle area for them to work with here.....

I'm certainly open for seeing some evidence of some compromise. It doesn't sound like it got to that level of discussion, though. Is it as simple as more reunion shows being offered, Brian, Al, and David saying yes and Mike (and thus Bruce) saying no, end of story? That we don't know.

[HeyJude]

After Mike's statement they proclaimed this, right? Mike's statement was before they expressed these desires to continue on the non-reunion tour and started linking to petitions and such and was accurate and according to the wishes the others had approved at the time the statement was given. Is that right?

Yes, of course. The statements from Al and Brian and the petitions were in direct response to Mike's press release. That's a main crux of this whole debacle, that the others didn't know of Mike's decision or plans, or at least the degree to which he would carry on his own band and not do reunion shows.

[Justin]

As a fan, I'm obvious biased towards the feelings and decisions of band members that result in more amazing reunion shows. Mike is placing his interests first, presumably. So are all the others. Their interest is in working together as a full group and doing more shows. Mike's interest is in making more money and having more control and less headaches. Makes sense for him, but he is going to be characterized thusly by fans. Of course it's not literally as simple as Mike placing money over everything else, but that certainly *appears* to be part of what's going on if the possible reasons for him not wanting more reunion shows right now that we've discussed are accurate.

Regardless of the money issue...you don't think the "headaches" as you put it aren't valid enough?  Dealing with the added stress of more people/crew and then most of all the Brian management team--isn't something one would feel sympathetic for, regardless of your biases as a fan?  That issue alone is bigger than the "money" issue, to me.

[HeyJude]

As a fan, I'm obvious biased towards the feelings and decisions of band members that result in more amazing reunion shows. Mike is placing his interests first, presumably. So are all the others. Their interest is in working together as a full group and doing more shows. Mike's interest is in making more money and having more control and less headaches. Makes sense for him, but he is going to be characterized thusly by fans. Of course it's not literally as simple as Mike placing money over everything else, but that certainly *appears* to be part of what's going on if the possible reasons for him not wanting more reunion shows right now that we've discussed are accurate.

Regardless of the money issue...you don't think the "headaches" as you put it aren't valid enough?  Dealing with the added stress of more people/crew and then most of all the Brian management team--isn't something one would feel sympathetic for, regardless of your biases as a fan?  That issue alone is bigger than the "money" issue, to me.

That's a tough question, and one we of course can't speak to for certain. I would lean towards what may well be a slightly less sympathetic position that they all did it in 2012, and are still touring comfortably (by industry standards) and making plenty of money, so it could be done again in 2013, and/or could have been done on a slightly extended schedule in 2012 and/or 2013.

The BB's don't owe us anything, let me make that clear. That's a debate that has raged in every fan community I've been a part of.

[Justin]

As a fan, I'm obvious biased towards the feelings and decisions of band members that result in more amazing reunion shows. Mike is placing his interests first, presumably. So are all the others. Their interest is in working together as a full group and doing more shows. Mike's interest is in making more money and having more control and less headaches. Makes sense for him, but he is going to be characterized thusly by fans. Of course it's not literally as simple as Mike placing money over everything else, but that certainly *appears* to be part of what's going on if the possible reasons for him not wanting more reunion shows right now that we've discussed are accurate.

Regardless of the money issue...you don't think the "headaches" as you put it aren't valid enough?  Dealing with the added stress of more people/crew and then most of all the Brian management team--isn't something one would feel sympathetic for, regardless of your biases as a fan?  That issue alone is bigger than the "money" issue, to me.

That's a tough question, and one we of course can't speak to for certain. I would lean towards what may well be a slightly less sympathetic position that they all did it in 2012, and are still touring comfortably (by industry standards) and making plenty of money, so it could be done again in 2013, and/or could have been done on a slightly extended schedule in 2012 and/or 2013.

The BB's don't owe us anything, let me make that clear. That's a debate that has raged in every fan community I've been a part of.

I believe it's a tough question for many to answer because no one simply wants to answer it.  Can't we all simply admit that it may possibly not be "all about the money" but rather it's Mike's resistance to deal with Brian/management and their issues?  Only Mike can answer that but knowing what we know about Brian, how he works and how much his band (and Jeff) have to support him, working with Brian is a HUGE package deal.  It's not just Brian you're getting.  It's Brian plus about 20 additional people (that includes Melinda, of course).  Mike played nice and worked around them for this special anniversary.  At this point, Mike hasn't shared when or how he'd work with them again.

I find it very convenient that we've all now just turned a blind eye to Brian and his issues, and we have "no idea" why Mike has hesitations about working with Brian again.

[Cam Mott]

After Mike's statement they proclaimed this, right? Mike's statement was before they expressed these desires to continue on the non-reunion tour and started linking to petitions and such and was accurate and according to the wishes the others had approved at the time the statement was given. Is that right?

Yes, of course. The statements from Al and Brian and the petitions were in direct response to Mike's press release. That's a main crux of this whole debacle, that the others didn't know of Mike's decision or plans, or at least the degree to which he would carry on his own band and not do reunion shows.

Well the fan reaction and the Boys reactions make no sense. So Mike is doing only what was agreed. They set the rules, Mike states their rules, their rules apply, but some how Mike is wrong because he said what they agreed to. So where since the Boys have expressed their disregard for their own rules has Mike said that more reunion shows are off the table, or anything that justifies the fan/Boys reactions and that petition?