Another S**t stirring article in The Independent today !

[Jonathan Blum]

I just think in business you never want to reveal your cards to the public, especially when there's no 100% guarantee that plans will come to fruition.  With a fanbase as aggressive (and greedy?) as the Beach Boys' are....they would be questioned at every moment when they would reunite again.  "But you said 3 months ago that there'd be a new tour...where is it??"  

I don't recall anyone raging about whether or not the Eagles would tour again after Hell Freezes Over, or the first new album tour.  In both cases, they left the door explicitly open but without any firm plans.

If the press release in question had been as clear about leaving the door open, it wouldn't have stirred up such a hoo-hah...

Cheers,
Jon Blum

[the professor]

I am at my limit. . .. .  ..  . . they must release a clarifying statement that makes us all joyous in the next 2 minutes or else I will. . . .

see how impotent we are?

[Shady]

By the way, do not go on Mike Love's facebook page..

Ouch!

[Justin]

I don't recall anyone raging about whether or not the Eagles would tour again after Hell Freezes Over, or the first new album tour.

They didn't? If anything, that reveals more about Eagles fans than Beach Boys fans!    I don't see BB fans staying patient with the hopes of a new reunion tour right around the corner.  That's just my view, though. 

[Jason]

By the way, do not go on Mike Love's facebook page..

Ouch!

Lots of slanderous remarks on there. Not a good idea with Mr. Positivity.

[HeyJude]

I don't recall anyone raging about whether or not the Eagles would tour again after Hell Freezes Over, or the first new album tour.  In both cases, they left the door explicitly open but without any firm plans.

If the press release in question had been as clear about leaving the door open, it wouldn't have stirred up such a hoo-hah...

Cheers,
Jon Blum

But things are markedly different from the Eagles situation in a key way: They didn't do the "Hell Freezes Over" tour, and then have Don Henley ditch the other dudes but tour as "The Eagles." If a group as a whole decides they want another break, either because they can't stand each other again or to build demand, then that is easier for fans to accept. But when the tour goes way better than expected, and one or two members ditch the other guys but continue to tour under the name, it's more troubling to fans because it shows that *all* members have a willingness to keep touring under the name, but one or two members want to do it more cheaply by scaling back the musicians and singers and ditching some of the actual band members. Yes, before someone points it out, I'm well aware that Mike has been doing this same thing since 1998. The reason him doing this in 2012 is different is simple: The reunion, the *successful* reunion, changes the standard for a lot of things. To some fans at least.

I said months ago that I was surprised Mike did the reunion specifically because it would inevitably all of a sudden change the perception of "his" Beach Boys if/when he went back out with that lineup. Not enough to cause a revolt of the average joe concertgoer, but just enough to stir up the crap we're seeing in the papers now.

[SMiLE Brian]

I am at my limit. . .. .  ..  . . they must release a clarifying statement that makes us all joyous in the next 2 minutes or else I will. . . .

see how impotent we are?

The BBs are nuts, just dig it man!

[bgas]

.  Mike and Chuck have more in common than just lyrical chops.

Sure I see that!  Both Mike and Chuck sued Brian over song lyrics and won!

[Awesoman]

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/bad-vibrations-beach-boys-frontman-sacks-founders-on-anniversary-tour-8176117.html

So, Mike "sacks the founder members" and they will be "replaced by session musicians" ? An article written by someone who's unaware of any Beach Boys touring activity before the anniversary shows...

This is almost like reading a comic book. 

[KittyKat]

Funny that people mention the Eagles and Hell Freezes Over, which resulted in a massive lawsuit after Don Felder was kicked out of the band after that tour.  It's not all rainbows in Eagles land, either.

Brian Wilson fans make me tired.  Brian agreed to have Mike tour without him several years ago,  and now he's acting all butt-hurt over Mike living up to his BRI contract.  Which he and Melinda know will unleash their mentally unbalanced (there, I said it, and I mean those crazy Blueboarders) minions on the poor dude.  Play your games behind the scenes,  Brian and Melinda.  I know you dudes read this board.  Stop the shenanigans.  I know you want publicity, but this is ridiculous.

[Awesoman]

Funny that people mention the Eagles and Hell Freezes Over, which resulted in a massive lawsuit after Don Felder was kicked out of the band after that tour.  It's not all rainbows in Eagles land, either.

Brian Wilson fans make me tired.  Brian agreed to have Mike tour without him several years ago,  and now he's acting all butt-hurt over Mike living up to his BRI contract.  Which he and Melinda know will unleash their mentally unbalanced (there, I said it, and I mean those crazy Blueboarders) minions on the poor dude.  Play your games behind the scenes,  Brian and Melinda.  I know you dudes read this board.  Stop the shenanigans.  I know you want publicity, but this is ridiculous.

Honestly I bet most of this "drama" is playing out moreso in the papers rather than within the band itself.  It was reported several months ago that Love had already planned some post-reunion shows with his cover band version of the Beach Boys.  So I doubt that Brian, Al and Dave are all of a sudden quite as stunned by Mike's move as reported.  If they are truly that annoyed with Mike's actions, they're still hanging out with him while finishing up the reunion tour; why don't they just approach him face-to-face about it?  Why does Al have to resort to a lame Facebook petition over this when all he has to do is walk up to Mike and kick him in the junk and tell him to "cut the sh_t"?  And haven't they all said they were all open to doing future projects together?  So exactly where is this controversy coming from?

[HeyJude]

Funny that people mention the Eagles and Hell Freezes Over, which resulted in a massive lawsuit after Don Felder was kicked out of the band after that tour.  It's not all rainbows in Eagles land, either.

Brian Wilson fans make me tired.  Brian agreed to have Mike tour without him several years ago,  and now he's acting all butt-hurt over Mike living up to his BRI contract.  Which he and Melinda know will unleash their mentally unbalanced (there, I said it, and I mean those crazy Blueboarders) minions on the poor dude.  Play your games behind the scenes,  Brian and Melinda.  I know you dudes read this board.  Stop the shenanigans.  I know you want publicity, but this is ridiculous.

So now the fact that Mike apparently turned down additional reunion bookings that Brian, Al, and David wanted to do has morphed into Mike "living up to his BRI contract"? Believe me, I'm sure they worked *that* part of it out (Mike having the current license to use the name) well in advance of the tour. As long as Brian and Al (2/3 of the balance of "BRI") were on board for the tour, I'm sure BRI would have let the shows go on. In fact, I haven't heard any evidence that anything to do with the reunion violates Mike "living up to his BRI contract." And if it had, as I said, they would have had that worked out in advance of the tour.

[Jason]

Brian Wilson fans make me tired.  Brian agreed to have Mike tour without him several years ago,  and now he's acting all butt-hurt over Mike living up to his BRI contract.  Which he and Melinda know will unleash their mentally unbalanced (there, I said it, and I mean those crazy Blueboarders) minions on the poor dude.  Play your games behind the scenes,  Brian and Melinda.  I know you dudes read this board.  Stop the shenanigans.  I know you want publicity, but this is ridiculous.

WOW...someone else feels the same way I do.

[HeyJude]

Honestly I bet most of this "drama" is playing out moreso in the papers rather than within the band itself.  It was reported several months ago that Love had already planned some post-reunion shows with his cover band version of the Beach Boys.  So I doubt that Brian, Al and Dave are all of a sudden quite as stunned by Mike's move as reported.  If they are truly that annoyed with Mike's actions, they're still hanging out with him while finishing up the reunion tour; why don't they just approach him face-to-face about it?  Why does Al have to resort to a lame Facebook petition over this when all he has to do is walk up to Mike and kick him in the junk and tell him to "cut the sh_t"?  And haven't they all said they were all open to doing future projects together?  So exactly where is this controversy coming from?

I'm sure the situation within the band right now is indeed not nearly as dramatic. It has indeed been known for at least a few months that Mike had booked some non-reunion shows. Brian/Al/David indeed didn't say anything about this. It was only after the "press release" came out that all of this started. This tells me the other three knew Mike had a few shows booked, but to them the press release seemed more like a definitive statement for the forseeable future.

As for approaching Mike face to face, Al said in one of the interviews that he did ask Mike about it, and supposedly got a committment to at least sit down and talk about it, whatever that means.

Why would the other three put on a happy face even if they are upset over the situation? Simple. It would likely be a huge financial (and PR) problem to not do these two shows. They are pros, so they'll do it. And they're probably not even like secretly hating each other or anything. It's the next in a long line of awkward BB moments where they're kind of having a disagreement, but they continue to function.

[adamghost]

I'm sure from Mike's perspective, he made a bargain and kept it, and now he wants to go back to a manner of performing that he's more comfortable with.  Regardless of how I as a fan might or might not prefer it to go down (and honestly, I didn't shell out to go see the tour and probably won't in the future, so my opinion and that of people like me is totally irrelevant to the bottom line) I can totally respect that.

The optics of it, however, are bad.  It just seems like it's the kind of thing that would have gone down better AFTER the last show, and perhaps worded a bit more inclusively.  However, Doe is likely right that in three months it won't matter.  Mike's weathered worse.

[Sheriff John Stone]

So now the fact that Mike apparently turned down additional reunion bookings that Brian, Al, and David wanted to do has morphed into Mike "living up to his BRI contract"

"So now the fact"....Is it now a fact? Are you coming to that conclusion from Jon Stebbins' post? Jon said, "I really don't know the motivation or details" I think the word "details" is pretty important. Actually, that's the whole issue. The details.

Without knowing the details, everything that everybody posts on this board is speculation. And, that's fine. This is a rock & roll message board. So, when you say, "morphed into Mike "living up to his BRI contract", you are implying that the fans who believe that point of view are wrong. And, of course, you KNOW they're wrong, right?  Even without - as Jon stated - knowing the details.

[HeyJude]

I'm sure from Mike's perspective, he made a bargain and kept it, and now he wants to go back to a manner of performing that he's more comfortable with.  Regardless of how I as a fan might or might not prefer it to go down (and honestly, I didn't shell out to go see the tour and probably won't in the future, so my opinion and that of people like me is totally irrelevant to the bottom line) I can totally respect that.

The optics of it, however, are bad.  It just seems like it's the kind of thing that would have gone down better AFTER the last show, and perhaps worded a bit more inclusively.  However, Doe is likely right that in three months it won't matter.  Mike's weathered worse.

Very true. Most if not all of the bad press would have been avoided if Mike had waited until the new year, or even November or December, to book more shows, and made a quiet announcment after the tour was over.

[ontor pertawst]

That's basically it. It looks awful, and it's not due to mentally ill Brian Wilson Message Board posters or Melinda's flying monkeys. It's due to crappy timing of a poorly worded PR release for, what... some Texas gigs? Really? Well, I hope it's worth it for him.

I'm guessing that in 3 months, we'll be having the same damn conversations on here about this. Occasionally re-sparked by the same sort of vague, conflicting statements in interviews.

In between bitching about the tweezing and tweaking on the forthcoming releases!

[HeyJude]

So now the fact that Mike apparently turned down additional reunion bookings that Brian, Al, and David wanted to do has morphed into Mike "living up to his BRI contract"

"So now the fact"....Is it now a fact? Are you coming to that conclusion from Jon Stebbins' post? Jon said, "I really don't know the motivation or details" I think the word "details" is pretty important. Actually, that's the whole issue. The details.

Without knowing the details, everything that everybody posts on this board is speculation. And, that's fine. This is a rock & roll message board. So, when you say, "morphed into Mike "living up to his BRI contract", you are implying that the fans who believe that point of view are wrong. And, of course, you KNOW they're wrong, right?  Even without - as Jon stated - knowing the details.

Concerning the term "living up to his contact", I don't think it works here, because it pre-supposes there are terms requiring Mike to book shows immediately again as "The Beach Boys." I don't believe Mike is forced to book shows under his contract. Even if there was some provision in his licensing agreement requiring him to book at least a minimum number of shows each year, I doubt any such requirement is the reasoning behind booking shows in October for his band. Even the press release doesn't state anything to the affect that anything was obligatory about Mike booking these additional shows.

Obviously, we're guessing at all of this.

I will acknowledge that "fact" is an easy word to throw around. I certainly believe Jon Stebbins' assertion that some additional offers were made. I see no reason not to believe this, and he's probably closer to that inside bubble than most if not all of us. Yes, the terms of such potential shows are unknown. But all the terms for all of the shows are unknown, so how then do we discuss it at all?

Those that are suggesting Mike should do more reunion shows, are, at least as far as I can tell, not making this statement based on contacts or how a CPA would break down the numbers. We're saying that Mike should keep that lineup together because it's a really good lineup. We're not saying Mike should legally be forced to do more reunion shows. We're not saying he owes anything to anybody. Continuing his old, slim BB lineup while three actual BB's are left behind who want to do more reunion gigs, simply is something some fans believes reflects negatively on Mike as it relates to his place within the band. That's all.

[KittyKat]

I'm sure from Mike's perspective, he made a bargain and kept it, and now he wants to go back to a manner of performing that he's more comfortable with.  Regardless of how I as a fan might or might not prefer it to go down (and honestly, I didn't shell out to go see the tour and probably won't in the future, so my opinion and that of people like me is totally irrelevant to the bottom line) I can totally respect that.

The optics of it, however, are bad.  It just seems like it's the kind of thing that would have gone down better AFTER the last show, and perhaps worded a bit more inclusively.  However, Doe is likely right that in three months it won't matter.  Mike's weathered worse.

Very true. Most if not all of the bad press would have been avoided if Mike had waited until the new year, or even November or December, to book more shows, and made a quiet announcment after the tour was over.

The problem is, the world keeps turning and they have to publicize and book shows in advance.  I don't think anyone was thinking about that.

Also, it's entirely possible that Mike and friends make more money without booking a big tour.  Mike keeps expenses down.  In fact, he did his best to do that on the reunion tour, as well.  However, the bigger sound systems, etc. required for a bigger tour take up more revenue.  There's also the fact that Brian insisted on having his own personal tour bus.  I'm not sure if he paid that out of his own share or pocket, but if he didn't, that had to take some out of the bottom line.

There's also the fact that the entire band insisted that the reunion tour with all those members was a one-time only deal for the 50th anniversary.  Someone even posted an interview clip of Al Jardine saying that very emphatically, as well.  The fact is, would ticket sales have been as high if people believed they might have another opportunity to see the band on a different tour?  Possibly not.  The band was making a promise to the audience who chose to attend by saying it was their last time and last chance to see this line-up.  Now they want a do-over.  A lot of fans will see them again, but a number of people may well choose to stay home and they won't make as much money or be able to play the big venues.

BTW, the recent publicity has little to do with Mike's "poorly worded" press release about the Texas gig, which was released months ago.  The  recent spark of interest was provided by Brian Wilson's interview this past week with CNN, so the blame for those articles do seem to fall in his corner. In any case, all this talk in the press could eventually lead to some kind of court action if the parties involved aren't careful.  Or at least some hurt feelings that will result in the band not getting back together when they might have if it played out differently.  They all should have kept their mouths shut until the tour was completely over.  As it is, Mike may not be able to get as many bookings with his now-inferior line-up and he may be forced to go back with the reunion line-up and a reduced schedule of dates and revenue whether he wants that or not.  It's just unpleasant to read the childish people posting on the Blueboard and on Mike's Facebook fan page.  I'm not a huge fan of Mike, but those people make Brian Wilson fans look sooo bad.

[Wirestone]

I'm sure the reunion was a mammoth task to put together. I'm sure Mike held his tongue more than he cared to. I'm sure there were limits placed on the tour -- Bruce's nearly gleeful posts about its limited extent suggested as much.

But we ignore the fact that Brian and Mike are the yin and yang of this group, and that Brian never, ever handles anything directly. He orchestrated this reunion on his own, behind the scenes. He'd recorded most of the album before the guys came on board. It was a years-long process.

So BW goes on tour, which was kind of the spinach part of this reunion dinner. And he ended up liking it. He ended up, with his band being a part of it, liking it a lot. So what does he do? He talks up the reunion and talks about future plans. And somewhere in his head, Brian begins to think that the Beach Boys are his again, and that he should be at the head of the group.

But he knows that Mike would never stand his doing that outright. So he cozies up to Dave and Al. He drops some hints to Melinda, perhaps. And while he knows -- probably -- that there's a formal stop date, why would that matter to him? Does anything we know about BW suggest that such an arbitrary date would matter to him? Of course not.

And so Brian takes the path of least resistance, allowing the shows to continue, without challenging Mike too much or too fast. He keeps leaving hints, delaying any outright confrontation. But then the release comes out, and then the press calls. And Brian realizes -- even if it's at a gut level -- that this is the way he can confront Mike. He doesn't have to do it directly. He just has to say a few things, and the press takes care of the rest.

My point is that it's a power play by Brian. He wants a say in the ongoing group now. He has ownership of it. The reunion made him want to be a Beach Boy again, and he's not going to relinquish that role willingly. If that means pissing off Mike through the press -- well, he's good at that. He's done it a bunch in the past (remember all the "my band is way better than the Beach Boys" quotes?).

Mike is likely completely blindsided by this. He's a straight shooter in many respects, and I'm sure he's following every contractually obligated rule to the letter. But he didn't realize that when you hook up with Brian Wilson, you end up -- eventually -- playing by his rules.

[Wirestone]

BTW, the recent publicity has little to do with Mike's "poorly worded" press release about the Texas gig, which was released months ago.

That's untrue. Some gigs were known about earlier, but the "endless summer" press release is indeed new, and kicked all of this off.

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,14339.0.html

Press release came out Sept. 17.

[Sheriff John Stone]

I will acknowledge that "fact" is an easy word to throw around. I certainly believe Jon Stebbins' asseration that some additional offers were made. I see no reason not to believe this, and he's probably closer to that inside bubble than most if not all of us. Yes, the terms of such potential shows are unknown. But all the terms for all of the shows are unknown, so how then do we discuss it at all?

OK, we both agree that the terms are unknown. But, yes, we can still discuss it.

What if the extra/added on reunion dates directly conflicted with the dates of the Mike & Bruce shows. What could Mike do? Cancel the Mike & Bruce dates? Can you say lawsuits? And I don't mean the ones filed BY Mike.

OK, we also don't know the amount/fee/$$$$$ that Mike & Bruce agreed to for their upcoming shows. Do you know - as a fact - how much they will receive? Do you know - as a fact - that Brian, Al, and David would accept such a reduced fee? Of course not. Nobody on this board knows.

Nobody has answered my question, but that's OK. I'll keep asking it. If Mike & Bruce (I'll use your word) morphed their upcoming tour into a continuation of the reunion tour, BASED ON THE ALREADY CONTRACTUALLY AGREED UPON MIKE & BRUCE FEES, how would Brian, Al, and David get paid?

[SMiLE Brian]

Great analysis Wirestone, Brian really is a crafty planner.

[Wirestone]

The band was making a promise to the audience who chose to attend by saying it was their last time and last chance to see this line-up.

I never, ever saw such a promise. Can you direct me to the tour posters, etc., that say this was the last-ever chance to see the reunited group?

Al's statement doesn't count, because he is, as everyone knows, categorically nuts.