Another S**t stirring article in The Independent today !

[ontor pertawst]

It is definitely classic Wilsonian passive-aggressive manipulation alongside classic Mike Love alpha male power plays, isn't it? With Al being crazy on the side.

 What an appropriate conclusion to the Celebration. Somewhere the ghost of Murry cackles. SURRRRRGE, boys, SUUUUUUUUUUUURGE!

[Jason]

Nobody has answered my question, but that's OK. I'll keep asking it. If Mike & Bruce (I'll use your word) morphed their upcoming tour into a continuation of the reunion tour, BASED ON THE ALREADY CONTRACTUALLY AGREED UPON MIKE & BRUCE FEES, how would Brian, Al, and David get paid?

Michael and Bruce are only in it for the money and the others for the art. Who needs money when you can make art? DUH!

[HeyJude]

The problem is, the world keeps turning and they have to publicize and book shows in advance.  I don't think anyone was thinking about that.

Also, it's entirely possible that Mike and friends make more money without booking a big tour.  Mike keeps expenses down.  In fact, he did his best to do that on the reunion tour, as well.  However, the bigger sound systems, etc. required for a bigger tour take up more revenue.  There's also the fact that Brian insisted on having his own personal tour bus.  I'm not sure if he paid that out of his own share or pocket, but if he didn't, that had to take some out of the bottom line.

There's also the fact that the entire band insisted that the reunion tour with all those members was a one-time only deal for the 50th anniversary.  Someone even posted an interview clip of Al Jardine saying that very emphatically, as well.  The fact is, would ticket sales have been as high if people believed they might have another opportunity to see the band on a different tour?  Possibly not.  The band was making a promise to the audience who chose to attend by saying it was their last time and last chance to see this line-up.  Now they want a do-over.  A lot of fans will see them again, but a number of people may well choose to stay home and they won't make as much money or be able to play the big venues.

BTW, the recent publicity has little to do with Mike's "poorly worded" press release about the Texas gig, which was released months ago.  The  recent spark of interest was provided by Brian Wilson's interview this past week with CNN, so the blame for those articles do seem to fall in his corner. In any case, all this talk in the press could eventually lead to some kind of court action if the parties involved aren't careful.  Or at least some hurt feelings that will result in the band not getting back together when they might have if it played out differently.  They all should have kept their mouths shut until the tour was completely over.  As it is, Mike may not be able to get as many bookings with his now-inferior line-up and he may be forced to go back with the reunion line-up and a reduced schedule of dates and revenue whether he wants that or not.  It's just unpleasant to read the childish people posting on the Blueboard and on Mike's Facebook fan page.  I'm not a huge fan of Mike, but those people make Brian Wilson fans look sooo bad.

Word of the October gigs did indeed surface a few months ago. I don't know when the shows were solidly booked, or when tickets went on sale. They did need to be clearly publicized and whatnot. I don't think anybody denies that. I think that's part of what's painting Mike in a bad light here. He has to get right back out there with no break to make more money and do more shows. How about stepping back from the "He has to do the shows; they already booked them" reasoning (setting aside the fact that they could be cancelled potentially, as the Nutty Jerry's gig was) and going a step back to asking, why did he book the shows in the first place? To generate more revenue certainly. Maybe re-asserting ownership, the sort of "possession is 9/10 of the law" reasoning by continuing to use the band name too.

As to making money off the tour, I long ago, before and during the early stage of the tour, stated my belief that it was quite possible Mike made less money on the reunion tour than he would doing his own tour. Many costs were higher on this tour, no question. Bigger band, bigger crew, bigger stage rig, more of everything (food, buses, etc.), and of course splitting the pot with other BB's in some fashion most likely as well. That he did the tour is something that won Mike over some very hardened, cynical fans. Reversing that sort of spirit of taking one for the team is now re-confirming why fans didn't like him in the past. Whether fans are justified in their feelings or not, this was all good will that was Mike's to lose.

As to the "press release", I don't believe the statement was released months ago. I believe it was put out around 9/17 when it was posted here. That is what set off the bad publicity. Prior to that, to my belief, all we had was third-hand bits and pieces, basically just seeing the "Nutty Jerry's" gig publicized on the web (remember that ten minutes when we thought maybe it meant another added leg to the reunion tour?   ), and then rumors of South American dates in October.

[HeyJude]

OK, we both agree that the terms are unknown. But, yes, we can still discuss it.

What if the extra/added on reunion dates directly conflicted with the dates of the Mike & Bruce shows. What could Mike do? Cancel the Mike & Bruce dates? Can you say lawsuits? And I don't mean the ones filed BY Mike.

OK, we also don't know the amount/fee/$$$$$ that Mike & Bruce agreed to for their upcoming shows. Do you know - as a fact - how much they will receive? Do you know - as a fact - that Brian, Al, and David would accept such a reduced fee? Of course not. Nobody on this board knows.

Nobody has answered my question, but that's OK. I'll keep asking it. If Mike & Bruce (I'll use your word) morphed their upcoming tour into a continuation of the reunion tour, BASED ON THE ALREADY CONTRACTUALLY AGREED UPON MIKE & BRUCE FEES, how would Brian, Al, and David get paid?

I'll answer these questions: We indeed don't know the details of all of these agreements. But I'm guessing if another reunion leg had been worked out, they could have cancelled or rescheduled the Mike/Bruce shows, or morphed them into reunion shows, with some or all of them taking less money. Mike cancelled the Nutty Jerry's show, and some Texas gigs back in April were cancelled as well. It could be done if the financial incentive from promoters offering money for more reunion shows was good enough.

Again, I see no evidence suggesting Mike and Bruce are doing these October gigs solely due to "oops, we are obligated to do them" reasoning. The press release didn't read "Mike and Bruce will be doing a few shows in October with their previous lineup due to previous commitments." It reads more like "the reunion tour is over, and now you'll be getting Mike and Bruce."

[Shady]

Great article that set's the story straight..

http://www.glidemagazine.com/hiddentrack/dont-believe-the-hype-original-beach-boys-werent-fired/

[HeyJude]

The band was making a promise to the audience who chose to attend by saying it was their last time and last chance to see this line-up.

I never, ever saw such a promise. Can you direct me to the tour posters, etc., that say this was the last-ever chance to see the reunited group?

Al's statement doesn't count, because he is, as everyone knows, categorically nuts.

I thought that was one of the respectable things of this tour, that they didn't explictly state it was a "Farewell Tour." I remember McCartney years ago being asked about this, and he said it's always tempting to publicize something as a "farewell" to get more people to come out to the shows. The BB's didn't do this, and I never saw anything that indicated this. They didn't promise anything additional, either. But Al said on Charlie Rose he wanted to tour "every two years", which of course nobody believed was going to happen, at least with an actual pause of any BB shows for a year. Al did say they are reuniting this "one final time", but as I've said, that one final time could be 10 years for all we know.

They left things open-ended because they were just that; open-ended. Now three of the dudes want to keep it going.

[HeyJude]

Great article that set's the story straight..

http://www.glidemagazine.com/hiddentrack/dont-believe-the-hype-original-beach-boys-werent-fired/

That article gets closer to the truth, but still comes to some conclusions I don't agree with. I think he's missing some of the nuance of Brian and Al's reasoning for causing a stink now. He thinks it confirms Love's suspicions that he shouldn't cede any control to Brian or Al, rather than thinking that it perhaps indicates Brian and Al saw a way for some soft negotiating tactics to keep an awesome touring lineup going.

[Nicko1234]

How about stepping back from the "He has to do the shows; they already booked them" reasoning (setting aside the fact that they could be cancelled potentially, as the Nutty Jerry's gig was) and going a step back to asking, why did he book the shows in the first place? .

What other option was there?

I guess the only other thing that Mike could have done would have been to go through the entire tour and wait until the reunited group were absolutely and definitely finished before considering accepting any other gigs. As tours are generally planned months in advance and it takes a while to sell tickets that could have left him sitting around at home for ages. It was never going to happen.

Therefore the band members obviously came to the conclusion that the tour would end at a certain point so they could get on with other things. Al talked about this months ago and knew all about it. Brian obviously will have done too.

[Sheriff John Stone]

Nobody has answered my question, but that's OK. I'll keep asking it. If Mike & Bruce (I'll use your word) morphed their upcoming tour into a continuation of the reunion tour, BASED ON THE ALREADY CONTRACTUALLY AGREED UPON MIKE & BRUCE FEES, how would Brian, Al, and David get paid?

I'll answer these questions: We indeed don't know the details of all of these agreements. But I'm guessing if another reunion leg had been worked out, they could have cancelled or rescheduled the Mike/Bruce shows, or morphed them into reunion shows, with some or all of them taking less money. Mike cancelled the Nutty Jerry's show, and some Texas gigs back in April were cancelled as well. It could be done if the financial incentive from promoters offering money for more reunion shows was good enough.

 
[/quote]

Yeah, Mike & Bruce could cancel, blow-off, stick the promoter, re-schedule, break the contract, go back on their word, leave those little rinky-dink venues for bigger better ones - if, as you say, "the financial incentive from promoters offering money for more reunion shows was good enough."

Why do that? To appease Brian and Al? I can only imagine what people would say about Mike if he did cancel those gigs - to accept more money. Isn't he a better man for keeping the comittments? You don't have to answer that question. It was rhetorical.

EDIT: I apologize again; I don't know what's wrong with me tonight and these posts. The first quote was mine and the second quote was HeyJude's. Sorry for messing it up. This topic must be getting to me!

[Jonathan Blum]

My point is that it's a power play by Brian. He wants a say in the ongoing group now.

...It's the idea that Brian's response to the press release is a "power play", but Mike putting out the press release isn't, that I'm not on board with.

At the end of the day, it's Mike who decided to make an official press statement about it, and before the end of the tour -- and a press statement which didn't make any concessions to the possibility of doing more together in the future, or of this being a mutual band decision.  I wouldn't call that "straight shooting"...

Cheers,
Jon Blum

[Justin]

Great article that set's the story straight..

http://www.glidemagazine.com/hiddentrack/dont-believe-the-hype-original-beach-boys-werent-fired/

''

Nice.  Is the author a member of this board?   

[Wirestone]

My point is that it's a power play by Brian. He wants a say in the ongoing group now.

...It's the idea that Brian's response to the press release is a "power play", but Mike putting out the press release isn't, that I'm not on board with.

At the end of the day, it's Mike who decided to make an official press statement about it, and before the end of the tour -- and a press statement which didn't make any concessions to the possibility of doing more together in the future, or of this being a mutual band decision.  I wouldn't call that "straight shooting"...

Cheers,
Jon Blum

I think the release was ill-timed and surely caused problems. But that's Mike's schtick, just as much as passive-aggression is Brian's. Mike will say something that's true, but in a really blunt way, and then act all surprised that anyone took it badly. Everyone is playing exactly according to type, and given how much they were playing against type before, that's what's so disappointing about all of this.

[Nicko1234]

Could part of the problem be that the tour was intended to finish in August? I think that`s what was said originally. If that had happened then there would have been a bit of breathing space before the Mike and Bruce gigs and time to issue the statement.

Instead there is no time so it was either a matter of issuing a statement just before the tour finished (bad timing) or immediately after the tour finished (also bad timing and probably too late).

[Mike's Beard]

Mike has made it clear that he'd like to make another new album with Brian (of which Al and David will also be a part of no doubt). If this comes to fruition then they will all have a good reason to tour again to promote it. But the 50th Anniversary Reunion is over, done with, time to move on. Better to go out on a high, leaving the fans wanting more than to carry on to the point where the reunited lineup has lost all it's novelty value. Plus this is Brian Wilson we are talking of here; just because at the moment he wants to do more reunion shows is no guarantee that in two months time he won't decide that he doesn't want to be a Beach Boy again.

[KittyKat]

I'm not sure why they need such a huge band.  I wonder whose insistence it was they had to include just about every member of the Brian Wilson touring band on the reunion.  I'm not sure Brian toured with that many players on every tour or gig.  That could save some money right there, if they were to continue as a "reunited" band.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

I can't blame Mike a bit for maybe wanting to get back to playing smaller pressure gigs with HIS guys and the life he's known for the past 15 years. It's probably been the happiest stretch of his life, so big deal. He has to know that people KNOW his "Beach Boys" isn't THE Beach Boys and will be able to ascertain the difference when/if the real Beach Boys are ever to tour again. Why deal with Al's drama and Brian's folk (excluding his kick-ass band members who were on this tour) and the crazy blueboard mob of angry villagers for the rest of your life if you don't have to? ..... I know it would be great for us fans, but we're talking about people's real lives here.

[Justin]

I can't blame Mike a bit for maybe wanting to get back to playing smaller pressure gigs with HIS guys and the life he's known for the past 15 years. It's probably been the happiest stretch of his life, so big deal. He has to know that people KNOW his "Beach Boys" isn't THE Beach Boys and will be able to ascertain the difference when/if the real Beach Boys are ever to tour again. Why deal with Al's drama and Brian's folk (excluding his kick-ass band members that were on this tour) and the crazy blueboard mob of angry torch villagers for the rest of his life if you don't have to? ..... I know it would be great for us fans, but we're talking about people's real lives here.

+1

[Wirestone]

Plus this is Brian Wilson we are talking of here; just because at the moment he wants to do more reunion shows is no guarantee that in two months time he won't decide that he doesn't want to be a Beach Boy again.

Better to just end it for all time then, huh?

[Wirestone]

Why deal with Al's drama and Brian's folk (excluding his kick-ass band members who were on this tour) and the crazy blueboard mob of angry villagers for the rest of your life if you don't have to?

Because it's the best and truest representation of the music that's toured since the 70s, at least?

[bossaroo]

It's kinda struck me as funny how for years many fans assumed that Mike was desperate to work with Brian under any circumstances - now these same type of people are criticising him for not jumping at the click of Brian's fingers.

I thought Mike would go hatless in public to write with Brian again.

[Justin]

I'll never get used to that image.  I think of Mike's hats as a permanent extension of his head...

[SMiLE Brian]

I'll never get used to that image.  I think of Mike's hats as a permanent extension of his head...

Same here, Mike has been wearing them for so long...

[bossaroo]

Exactly. It's refreshing to see some more mellowed responses to the situation. The Beach Boys aren't going to be splintering forever, never to reunite. There just happens to be a little bump in the road in the form of previous contractual obligations for the Michael and Bruce band. Besides...if there's to be another album I doubt Brian's going to be able to write on the road. Same with Al and David. Let them relax for a while and come up with some new stuff.

Correct, it's clear Brian can't create while on the road...it never worked in the past...why would it work now?  The logical thing is to have Brian (and Al and David) sit back and come up with something.  Well, what is Mike and Bruce supposed to do durng this time?  Stay home amd wait?

yes. he should stay home and wait.
or do some shows as Mike & Bruce's Endless Summer or whatever if he just HAS to keep performing.

the reunion lineup should have been the only Beach Boys shows in 2012. period. booking "Beach Boys" shows in October with no intention of including the reunited lineup was a tasteless move. Even if the shows were booked 2 years ahead of time, before the reunion was even hinted at, they've had plenty of time to cancel those dates as was done with the Nutty Jerry's gig.

The reunited Beach Boys could be embarking on a triumphant tour across England, playing 10 more shows or whatever they were offered. Just think how many more times Mike could tell the story about being voted #1 over the Beatles and Stones!!!

instead, they've got to hurry and wrap things up in the UK so Mike & Bruce can play the Heart of Texas Fair & Rodeo in Waco,TX and call themselves The Beach Boys.

f*cking REALLY??!!??!!!

[Jim V.]

I turned on the radio a few minutes ago and they were discussing the "break up"

People were talking about wanting refunds to the UK gigs. This is getting a little out of hand, a statement needs to be issued

Let them bitch about their refunds. And all this time I thought that John Bull's people were such HUGE Beach Boys fans...

You are sooooo fucking jingoistic. I'm American too, and proud of it, but shut the f*** up, please! And please don't keep telling people they aren't real fans because they don't live up to some stupid standard you set up for them in your mind.

[SurfRiderHawaii]

I thought I read (an accurate?) quote from Mike Love that he would like to record another Beach Boys' album - if he could write some songs with Brian. Not ALL the songs (if I remember correctly), but SOME songs. Wouldn't that be considered continuing the reunion?

Also, if Brian, Al, and David continued touring with Mike & Bruce immediately after the scheduled reunion dates, where would they get the money to pay everyone? You would know better than me, aren't the performance fees for the upcoming Mike & Bruce shows already contractually agreed upon? And, you would know this better than anyone, would David agree to play with Mike & Bruce at a substantially lower pay than he is getting for the reunion shows? And, do you know how David would feel if a guitar player would get "bumped" if David joined the Mike & Bruce band for the upcoming shows?

Its my understanding that more offers became available for more reunion shows, so instead of stopping at say 75, they had offers for 10 or 20 more or something...more dates tacked on to the reunion tour...but these were turned down because Mike chose/planned/contracted to return to his pre-reunion set-up and his own bookings. I really don't know the motivation or details, just the generality that there were more reunion lineup offers left on the table, and from my impression Brian, Al and Dave were up for keeping it going, but Mike was not. Again i only have a general knowledge that this was the case, but no specifics as to how, why, where etc... And yes, Mike has said he'd like to record and write more with Brian, so hopefully that means with the five of them together.

From my "Limited Inside Knowledge", there is another reason (not to do with money, control, ego, power........), that no one has hit on, why Mike wants/likes to play these smaller venues not appropriate for the full Reunion band.  That's all I can say.