Would Surfs Up have been the Greatest?

[Lonely Summer]

If WIBNTLA is as good as advertised,I probably would have a tough time deciding between Sunflower and Surf's Up.  I already do to a degree.  I'd also have a hard time deciding between removing TALOYF and LAT

I doubt that WIBNTLA is the masterpiece it's supposed to be. Probably falls into the "it's classic because it's unreleased" catagory. Surf's Up is a very good album, but Sunflower is untouchable. I will blaspheme and say that I would even take Sunflower over Pet Sounds. It's a tossup between Sunflower and Smile.

[Jukka]

nothing can follow Surf's up, at least on the same vinyl side.

I disagree with that. My own SMiLE compilations end SU->Prayer->GV. Sounds great.

Yeah, but... SMiLE is not like other albums and Prayer is not a normal song, you know? In context of a normal album sequencing, Surf's Up is a tough act to follow. Such  a grand, epic, majestic piece.

...though I can dig your SMiLE-sequence. Surf's Up is the ascension. Then we'll meet the choir of angels (Prayer) and it all ends up in one massive love-fest in heaven (GV)!

[Cabinessenceking]

I love that GM quote, because the inclusion of those two songs would have made Sgt. Pepper beter then Pet Sounds without a doubt. I love the Beach Boys, but an album with NO BAD TRACKS AND 4 OF THE GREATEST SONGS EVER WRITTEN IS AMAZING.


Oh... wait... that is Pet Sounds

Imo Sgt Pepper is riddled with mediocre songwriting. The Lennon input is very solid, but Paul provides mostly filler. Lovely Rita and When I'm 64 are horrendous, but so is Getting Better, Fixing a Hole and Good Morning Good Morning. None of those songs could possibly constitute material for the greatest album of all time. Sgt Pepper has some of the best songs, but also many subpar ones. PS simply does not having tracks lacking in the same way, so it therefore better, and I'm a big admirer of the Beatles.

[FatherOfTheMan Sr101]

If WIBNTLA is as good as advertised,I probably would have a tough time deciding between Sunflower and Surf's Up.  I already do to a degree.  I'd also have a hard time deciding between removing TALOYF and LAT

I doubt that WIBNTLA is the masterpiece it's supposed to be. Probably falls into the "it's classic because it's unreleased" catagory. Surf's Up is a very good album, but Sunflower is untouchable. I will blaspheme and say that I would even take Sunflower over Pet Sounds. It's a tossup between Sunflower and Smile.

Sorry buddy, that's wrong. 

[Catbirdman]

TALOYF is charming but somewhat insipid (again IMO) & STD is topical, pandering, completely unremarkable mediocrity.

Freudian slip?

 

[harrisonjon]

It's an unfair comparison unless you're also going to ensure that the version of Sunflower is the best that could possibly have been put out.

[runnersdialzero]

Being able to criticize objectively is important however, asking which things about an album work and which things don't, how things could have been improved or done in a way to better suite the albums' own objectives, are ways that all of us as listeners can increase our overall enjoyment of the music. This album is done and in print, there's no reason you have to be defensive, nobody is going to take your copy of away.

All true enough. I think I was just mildly irked (as irked as someone can become with a messageboard, i.e. not very irked at all imo imo imo) that we just had this thread a week ago and the amount of criticism toward Carl for not including a song most of us haven't heard the original recording of. Not to knock Adam and co's cover, I just think it's worth hearing the original before you say Carl was stuck in the past or something.

I do agree with you however about the "fluff", those songs always seem to end up adding that little something extra. Surf's Up is an exception to that rule unfortunately. The fluff just isn't good, not even by Beach Boys standards. Susie Cincinnati, When Girls Get Together, even My Solution would have been made better inclusions in my opinion. In the context of the "darker" songs, WGGT could have fared a little better than it did later on.

Can't say I agree there - "Susie Cincinnati" and "When Girls Get Together" never did much of anything for me (although maybe I haven't given them the proper chance), and "My Solution" is very cool/amusing but would've been better as some kind of standalone 45 or something than on any album. Just me, though. As I've said before, two albums in '71 wouldn't have been a bad thing at all, imo.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Anyone who thinks Student Demonstration Time is perfect has a very different definition of perfection than most.  

Hey, if liking a pretty damn rocking little number by my favorite band that features some seriously kickin' lead guitar from Carl Wilson that comes smack in-between two of my all-time favorite songs in the universe means I have sh*tty taste: fine. I stand hereby guilty.

[I. Spaceman]

Damn right, Erik. SDT was one of the songs that convinced me The Beach Boys weren't wimpy singalong pop music for people to throw beach balls around to on July 4th (not that there is anything WRONG with that).

[Jeff]

But why dwell on that if the album that exists is awesome???

Because it's not.  The album that exists is unlistenable, just as a meal that mixes steak and sh*t is inedible. 

Can't blame people for wanting to sub out the sh*t for something else good, particularly since WIBNTLA and 4OJ were supposed to be on the album to start with.

[Dove Nested Towers]

TALOYF is charming but somewhat insipid (again IMO) & STD is topical, pandering, completely unremarkable mediocrity.

Freudian slip?

 

I don't resemble that remark, not that it's anyone's business (and yes, I can take a joke, if it's funny). While I was engrossed in composing my comment, I reflected just long enough to think that the acronym had an odd similarity to afflictions of the unmentionables, and quickly thought "is this correct?" Too quickly, as it turns out, and thanks so much for tactfully pointing it out. No harm meant, I trust.

[Dove Nested Towers]

Damn right, Erik. SDT was one of the songs that convinced me The Beach Boys weren't wimpy singalong pop music for people to throw beach balls around to on July 4th (not that there is anything WRONG with that).

Interesting to get other perspectives, and see how polarized and black & white ways in which people see things (myself included in many cases). 4OJ and Live Again are hardly beach ball ditties either, but in a different (better IMO) sense.

[Dove Nested Towers]

But why dwell on that if the album that exists is awesome???

Because it's not.  The album that exists is unlistenable, just as a meal that mixes steak and sh*t is inedible.  

Can't blame people for wanting to sub out the sh*t for something else good, particularly since WIBNTLA and 4OJ were supposed to be on the album to start with.

Another case in point. The album is by no means "unlistenable", far from it, but there are tracks I skip over every single time I put it on, which would not have been the case with the "improved" lineup.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

But why dwell on that if the album that exists is awesome???

Because it's not.  The album that exists is unlistenable, just as a meal that mixes steak and sh*t is inedible. 

Can't blame people for wanting to sub out the sh*t for something else good, particularly since WIBNTLA and 4OJ were supposed to be on the album to start with.

Another case in point. The album is not unlistenable overall, but there are tracks I skip over every single time I put it on, which would not have been the case with the "improved" lineup.

I love the album and wouldn't change a single thing, but I do concur that picking it apart has been made easy by comments by our favorite Socialist Bruce, and it's rather forced nature.

[I. Spaceman]

 The album that exists is unlistenable

Bullsh*t. Surf's Up is an incredibly great record.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

It's actually the beach Boys album I listen to most often and from front to back every time.

[Jeff]

 The album that exists is unlistenable

Bullsh*t. Surf's Up is an incredibly great record.

In your world, a tape of Brian farting is "great."  So I guess "incredibly great" is just one step above that.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Wait, wait wait! Someone loving the Surf's Up album: is that REALLY the mark of a rabid Brianista?? Really? Please note, he's sticking up for the ENTIRE ALBUM, not just Till I Die and Surf's Up!

[runnersdialzero]

If Surf's Up is unlistenable (DAAAAMN DAWWWWG), I'd be curious to hear what you think of... well, almost all their other albums, but especially their 70s, 80s, 90s, and 2012s output.

Obviously everyone's entitled to their opinion, but I'm not sure how someone could be into this band and deem an album like Surf's Up "unlistenable". Pretty extreme word, I guess, and I'm not sure if you're wildly exaggerating and you think the tracklist could use a couple minor changes or if you really find the album unlistenable.

[I. Spaceman]

 The album that exists is unlistenable

Bullsh*t. Surf's Up is an incredibly great record.

In your world, a tape of Brian farting is "great."  So I guess "incredibly great" is just one step above that.

In my world, I love The Beach Boys, and I will go to lengths to defend the work of theirs that I feel is excellent. A rarity in these parts, ironically enough. It is fairly hilarious that you think I am some Brianista, when many of the band's songs that I actually dislike are his. I don't love the Sunflower album, which is an even rarer and more potentially heretical opinion than liking Student Demonstration Time.
But I guess that's all you could come up with on such short notice, the blind-faith fanboy card. I'm just someone who enjoys great music more than being a snarky prick.

[I. Spaceman]

Wait, wait wait! Someone loving the Surf's Up album: is that REALLY the mark of a rabid Brianista?? Really? Please note, he's sticking up for the ENTIRE ALBUM, not just Till I Die and Surf's Up!

It is one of the few Beach Boys albums I never skip a track on.

[FatherOfTheMan Sr101]

I love the album, but TALOYF and STD are auto skips.

[I. Spaceman]

I love the album, but TALOYF and STD are auto skips.

Yes, we know you feel this way.

[Mike's Beard]

Why is SDT so hated by so many? Granted it's nothing special, just a nice basic rocker. How many people dislike it just because Brian Wilson has gone on record as saying he does not like it?

[Dove Nested Towers]

Has nothing to do with that (didn't know that actually). It's just BORING.