Would Surfs Up have been the Greatest?

[bluesno1fann]

My final track-listing for Surf's Up:
1. Don't Go Near The Water
2. 4th Of July
3. Long Promised Road
4. Take A Load Off Your Feet
5. Disney Girls (1957)
6. Student Demonstration Time
7. Feel Flows
8. Lookin' At Tomorrow (A Welfare Song)
9. A Day In The Life Of A Tree
10. 'Til I Die
11. Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again
12. Surf's Up

Had Surf's Up been released with this track-listing, it would definitely have been considered one of the greatest albums ever, with Pet Sounds, The Smile Sessions, and Sunflower.

[Micha]

A bit late on this thread, but no, no way that SU could have been the greatest.

nothing can follow Surf's up, at least on the same vinyl side.

Ooooooh yes it can! It should take at least seven seconds of pause though.

[Sheriff John Stone]

A bit late on this thread, but no, no way that SU could have been the greatest.

nothing can follow Surf's up, at least on the same vinyl side.

Ooooooh yes it can! It should take at least seven seconds of pause though.

But I do find it fascinating how, with just the addition ("Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again") and subtraction (maybe "Take A Load Off Your Feet" or "Student Demonstration Time") OF JUST ONE SONG, how much improved or different the album feels. I'm having problems thinking of another Beach Boys' album where that might be true. And, to think how close it was to happening, if sequencing was really the issue...

[coco1997]

But I do find it fascinating how, with just the addition ("Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again") and subtraction (maybe "Take A Load Off Your Feet" or "Student Demonstration Time") OF JUST ONE SONG, how much improved or different the album feels. I'm having problems thinking of another Beach Boys' album where that might be true. And, to think how close it was to happening, if sequencing was really the issue...

So was the issue that Dennis wanted WIBNTLA after "Til I Die" and the rest of the band refused? I'm going to try that sequencing when I get home tonight. For years I've used Adam Marsland's version of WIBNTLA as a 'placeholder' for the real thing in hopes that it would finally get released, so I'm looking forward to trying this out.

[Ram4]

To me Fallin' In Love should be with Sunflower.  And I'd consider using H.E.L.P. Is On The Way (maybe over Feet).  Barbara is another possible track.  One song I just don't get is ADITLOAT.  I just don't like it.  Why would they use Jack to sing (if you call it that) when they have 6 lead singers, all of whom could have done it way better?  I'm sure it's about the lyrics, but it's never been much for me.  Once I make my version of SU, I'll give it another spin.

[Dunderhead]

To me Fallin' In Love should be with Sunflower.  And I'd consider using H.E.L.P. Is On The Way (maybe over Feet).  Barbara is another possible track.  One song I just don't get is ADITLOAT.  I just don't like it.  Why would they use Jack to sing (if you call it that) when they have 6 lead singers, all of whom could have done it way better?  I'm sure it's about the lyrics, but it's never been much for me.  Once I make my version of SU, I'll give it another spin.

One of the thing that's really striking about A Day In The Life... is how much Jack sounds like older Brian. I always see it as evidence that Brian wanted to sound the way he became.

[Iron Horse-Apples]

To me Fallin' In Love should be with Sunflower.  And I'd consider using H.E.L.P. Is On The Way (maybe over Feet).  Barbara is another possible track.  One song I just don't get is ADITLOAT.  I just don't like it.  Why would they use Jack to sing (if you call it that) when they have 6 lead singers, all of whom could have done it way better?  I'm sure it's about the lyrics, but it's never been much for me.  Once I make my version of SU, I'll give it another spin.

One of the thing that's really striking about A Day In The Life... is how much Jack sounds like older Brian. I always see it as evidence that Brian wanted to sound the way he became.

Funny you said that. I always pretend it's Brian singing even though I know it's not.

[Ziggy Stardust]

Surf's Up is a great album and one of the BB albums that i could connect the most with when i discovered.. but now, knowing all the tracks there was around and realize how much better it could have been, in my top the album just goes without a doubt after Sunflower, Love You, Holland..

But with a changed tracklist, adding Sounds Of Free, 4th Of July and Live Again, and pretend stuff like SDT never happened, yeah definitely one of their strongest.

[Disney Boy (1985)]

I think it would've easily have been absolutely one of their very, very greatest albums. This running order works for me:

1. Don't Go Near The Water
2. Long Promised Road
3. Sound of Free
4. Disney Girls (1957)
5. 4th Of July

6. Feel Flows
7. Lookin' At Tomorrow
8. A Day In The Life Of A Tree
9. Til I Die
10. Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again

Slightly longer than usually gap, maybe ten seconds for the sheer beauty of the preceding TID/WIBNTLA double-whammy to sink in, the listener thinks Wow it can't get any better than that - and then...

11. Surf's Up

[Mike's Beard]

The fantasy Surf's Up thing is great but if you had to be a stickler to the facts, as far as I'm aware

1- WIBNTLA and 4th of July were the two definite Dennis compostions originally put forward with maybe Lady as a third.
2- SDT was always set to be included even before Dennis pulled his tracks. It didn't replace anything.
3- TALOYF was the song exhumed from the vaults after Dennis had his hissy fit (nothing on the 'Landlocked' reels was set in stone to appear on the next album).
4 - Sound of Free was never considered to appear at any time.

Is this about right? Correct me if I've got things wrong. Paging Mr.Doe.........

[alf wiedersehen]

The fantasy Surf's Up thing is great but if you had to be a stickler to the facts, as far as I'm aware

1- WIBNTLA and 4th of July were the two definite Dennis compostions originally put forward with maybe Lady as a third.
2- SDT was always set to be included even before Dennis pulled his tracks. It didn't replace anything.
3- TALOYF was the song exhumed from the vaults after Dennis had his hissy fit (nothing on the 'Landlocked' reels was set in stone to appear on the next album).
4 - Sound of Free was never considered to appear at any time.

Is this about right? Correct me if I've got things wrong. Paging Mr.Doe.........

It would make sense that "WIBNTLA" and "4th of July" were the songs to appear on the album, considering the tracklisting.
Sunflower has 12 songs and  Surf's Up would have also had 12 songs, had Dennis kept his compositions on the album.

[Disney Boy (1985)]

To me Fallin' In Love should be with Sunflower.  And I'd consider using H.E.L.P. Is On The Way (maybe over Feet).  Barbara is another possible track.  One song I just don't get is ADITLOAT.  I just don't like it.  Why would they use Jack to sing (if you call it that) when they have 6 lead singers, all of whom could have done it way better?  I'm sure it's about the lyrics, but it's never been much for me.  Once I make my version of SU, I'll give it another spin.

I think the fact that Rieley's vocal is so rough and vulnerable is almost the whole point and I think it really adds to the song. Had Carl or someone sung it sweetly it wouldn't have worked so well. What you hear is what Brian wanted. Of course if you don't like it that's fair enough, just giving my own interpretation of the song and why I love it so much....

[drbeachboy]

i think Surf's Up is almost perfect as is... SDT is a good performance, though obviously not a great song. It's lyrics are the problem, though then again, Long Promised Road also has cringe-worthy lyrics too and that's generally considered to be good. 

I have been listening to Long Promised Road for 42 years and I have never cringed once. Just saying...

"lift the jeweled scepter when the weight turns the smile to a frown" is such a bad lyric

It's a metaphor for reaching the pinnacle and not finding the happiness you expected when you got there. Also, the lyric is "So hard to lift the jeweled scepter, when the weight turns a smile to a frown". It's Jack's imitation of Van Dyke. More like poem set to music. Just thought "cringe-worthy" was a bit strong, is all.

[clack]

Lots of long songs on SU. I don't know if it would have room for 12 songs. Maybe 11 would be doable.

SDT was an important track for the Beach Boys -- it got them some much-needed FM play. In my fantasy alternative history SDT would have been released as a single only -- the  band would still get the airplay, but SU wouldn't have been weakened by a cut that was OK for its era, but that has subsequently become very dated and cheesy.

[Summer_Days]

My updated fantasy Surf's Up album after hearing WIBNTLA:

1. Sound of Free
2. Long Promised Road
3. Lady
4. Disney Girls (1957)
5. 4th of July

6. Feel Flows
7. A Day In The Life of a Tree
8. Till I Die
9. Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again
10. Surf's Up


Make Lookin' at Tomorrow a B-side to LPR single.

[drbeachboy]

Lots of long songs on SU. I don't know if it would have room for 12 songs. Maybe 11 would be doable.

SDT was an important track for the Beach Boys -- it got them some much-needed FM play. In my fantasy alternative history SDT would have been released as a single only -- the  band would still get the airplay, but SU wouldn't have been weakened by a cut that was OK for its era, but that has subsequently become very dated and cheesy.

OK, I'll bite, why cheesy? Lyric completely misunderstood, I'll grant you, or has the meaning of cheesy changed? I know that in here, it is a second buzzword, just next to "creepy".

[pixletwin]

The fantasy Surf's Up thing is great but if you had to be a stickler to the facts, as far as I'm aware

1- WIBNTLA and 4th of July were the two definite Dennis compostions originally put forward with maybe Lady as a third.
2- SDT was always set to be included even before Dennis pulled his tracks. It didn't replace anything.
3- TALOYF was the song exhumed from the vaults after Dennis had his hissy fit (nothing on the 'Landlocked' reels was set in stone to appear on the next album).
4 - Sound of Free was never considered to appear at any time.

Is this about right? Correct me if I've got things wrong. Paging Mr.Doe.........

I think you 100% correct on that... My track tracklisting is just a fantasy "if I were in charge of the beach boys in 1971, this is what I would have done"

Otherwise I would revise my track-listing thus:

Don't go near the water
Long promised road
4th of July
Disney Girls
Student Demonstration Time

Feel Flows
Lookin' at tomorrow
A day in the life of a tree
'Til I die
(Wouldn't it be nice to) Live Again
Surf's Up

 

[Disney Boy (1985)]

Lots of long songs on SU. I don't know if it would have room for 12 songs. Maybe 11 would be doable.

SDT was an important track for the Beach Boys -- it got them some much-needed FM play. In my fantasy alternative history SDT would have been released as a single only -- the  band would still get the airplay, but SU wouldn't have been weakened by a cut that was OK for its era, but that has subsequently become very dated and cheesy.

OK, I'll bite, why cheesy? Lyric completely misunderstood, I'll grant you, or has the meaning of cheesy changed? I know that in here, it is a second buzzword, just next to "creepy".

I love Rieley's lyrics, think they fit the songs to which they're set perfectly. He was a great manager for the group: right place, right time.

[Summer_Days]

For me Rieley was inconsistent as a lyric writer. Most of the lyrics of LPR are good enough I don't always notice them 'cause Carl's singing is so damn good. His lyrics to Feel Flows definitely fit the spaced out feel of the song, since the words are pretty spacey too. Steamboat is pretty good I guess.

"So hard to lift the jeweled scepter" is a ridiculous line but I don't mind it. I guess he wrote the words of A Day in the Life of a Tree and I'd say it's his most successful lyric. 

[clack]

Lots of long songs on SU. I don't know if it would have room for 12 songs. Maybe 11 would be doable.

SDT was an important track for the Beach Boys -- it got them some much-needed FM play. In my fantasy alternative history SDT would have been released as a single only -- the  band would still get the airplay, but SU wouldn't have been weakened by a cut that was OK for its era, but that has subsequently become very dated and cheesy.

OK, I'll bite, why cheesy? Lyric completely misunderstood, I'll grant you, or has the meaning of cheesy changed? I know that in here, it is a second buzzword, just next to "creepy".

"Cheesy" -- defined by the Urban Dictionary as "Trying too hard, unsubtle, and inauthentic."

"For What It's Worth" covered the same basic subject in a more subtle manner, by making the cops vs. kids situation feel more universal. Mike's lyrics were too on-the-nose for my taste.

[b00ts]

For me Rieley was inconsistent as a lyric writer. Most of the lyrics of LPR are good enough I don't always notice them 'cause Carl's singing is so damn good. His lyrics to Feel Flows definitely fit the spaced out feel of the song, since the words are pretty spacey too. Steamboat is pretty good I guess.

"So hard to lift the jeweled scepter" is a ridiculous line but I don't mind it. I guess he wrote the words of A Day in the Life of a Tree and I'd say it's his most successful lyric. 

Agreed about "A Day in The Life of a Tree." The lyrics for "Long Promised Road" are unwieldy, clearly written by someone who was not going to have to deal with singing them himself. It says a lot about Carl as a vocalist that he was able to deliver those lyrics, with all their consonants and syllables, in such a beautiful way.

I've got to say, with WIBNTLA, we would have had three of the Wilsons' best songs ever on Surfs Up: "Long Promised Road," "Till I Die," and WIBNTLA.

I almost feel as though "Wouldn't it be Nice to Live Again" is the natural evolution of what Dennis was doing when he wrote "Forever."

[Wah Wah Wah Ooooo]

It's worth noting for clarity's sake that the correct title is "Sound of Free," and not "Sounds of Free."

Thanks. Sorry to be anal about one letter, but it actually makes a significant difference in the title to me.

[Phoenix]

Landlocked
1971

1. Don't Go Near The Water
2. 4th Of July
3. Long Promised Road
4. Take A Load Off Your Feet
5. Disney Girls (1957)
6. Student Demonstration Time

7. San Miguel
8. Feel Flows
9. Lookin' At Tomorrow (A Welfare Song)
10. A Day In The Life Of A Tree
11. 'Til I Die
12. Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again


If we're talking fantasy tracklistings, "Surf's Up" came out in early 1967 on Smile.

[Cabinessenceking]

Landlocked
1971

1. Don't Go Near The Water
2. 4th Of July
3. Long Promised Road
4. Take A Load Off Your Feet
5. Disney Girls (1957)
6. Student Demonstration Time

7. San Miguel
8. Feel Flows
9. Lookin' At Tomorrow (A Welfare Song)
10. A Day In The Life Of A Tree
11. 'Til I Die
12. Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again


If we're talking fantasy tracklistings, "Surf's Up" came out in early 1967 on Smile.

but still Brian cracked and wrote Til I Die?
nah I kid

[Phoenix]

Landlocked
1971

1. Don't Go Near The Water
2. 4th Of July
3. Long Promised Road
4. Take A Load Off Your Feet
5. Disney Girls (1957)
6. Student Demonstration Time

7. San Miguel
8. Feel Flows
9. Lookin' At Tomorrow (A Welfare Song)
10. A Day In The Life Of A Tree
11. 'Til I Die
12. Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again


If we're talking fantasy tracklistings, "Surf's Up" came out in early 1967 on Smile.

but still Brian cracked and wrote Til I Die?
nah I kid

Sure.  The only difference is he held it together for a few months more.   Then they still pulled back but released Le'd In Hawaii instead of Smiley Smile.