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Author Topic: The Beach Boys' blend vs. The Four Freshman's.  (Read 5403 times)
Reverend Joshua Sloane
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« on: April 12, 2006, 05:13:41 PM »

The Four Freshman, possibly the biggest influence to the Beach Boys. Almost copying their style, the boys put complex harmony into rock/pop music stunning the world. When I hear the Four Freshman, I hear old men sipping drinks in dimly lit rooms. When I hear the Beach Boys singing I hear youthful optimism and bright joy. There are several similarities between the voices of both groups, it's almost possible to hear a Brian and Carl in the FF's blend. I wonder if Brian purposely suited his voice to match the higher registered singer in the Four Freshman.

Anyone have any thoughts?

Their influence on Brian's songwriting is also unquestionable, the influence of Jazz in the Beach Boys' music is unmistakably brought in from his biggest influence. I sometimes imagine that Brian wrote a lot of his songs imagining he was writing for the Four Freshman. "Kiss Me Baby", with its lush chorus onslaught of harmony is very FF.
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« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2006, 08:30:58 PM »

I think I read somewhere that the high voice in the Freshmen (I forget the guy's name) was the reason Brian developed his high falsetto voice.  He was purposely trying to emulate that sound...I think Brian was writing as if the Freshmen would be singing, which worked fine because he knew that the BB could sing the parts just as well.  When I listen to the Freshmen I can hear a very direct influence, from the harmony arrangement all the way down through similar intonation of words.  Brian took that sound and placed it in a different context, using younger singers...I think that is why the sound is so much more youthful coming from the BB's as opposed to the Freshmen.
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Mitchell
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« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2006, 04:18:10 AM »

I heard that Brian was saddened when someone in the Freshmen called the Beach Boys' vocals amateurish or sloppy or something like that. I forget where I read that now.
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Reverend Joshua Sloane
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« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2006, 07:33:12 AM »

I heard that Brian was saddened when someone in the Freshmen called the Beach Boys' vocals amateurish or sloppy or something like that. I forget where I read that now.

I imagine he was. Though, I find the Beach Boys have many moments where they absolutely destroy the FF in many ways. "Our Prayer" anyone?

That comment was probably spawned out of envy also, hopefully something Brian realized or thought of.
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« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2006, 08:46:47 AM »

The Freshmen did a pretty nasty spoof version of "Surfer Girl" on a live album in the sixties and I've never felt the same about them.  I have the same view of them and Spector, though: Brian said "Wow", bowed down to them repeatedly, and then took them to school.  I guess the Freshmen and Spector don't have the graciousness to acknowledge that they were outclassed by their student.
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Mitchell
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« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2006, 09:06:52 AM »

Ha, I'd love to hear that.
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« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2006, 09:43:56 AM »

I recently d/l'ed a rip of a FF album from 1968, featurning folk-rock and pop-rock type music. Even then, their voices sounded fresh, with some nice, youthful sounding light-baritone leads; to hear those voices and contrast that with the picture of the group on the back was a hoot - all of them looking a bit long in the tooth, kinda square, and at least one as bald as an egg (maybe their fortunes would have changed if that fella wore a cap or something.) However, the vocals and arrangements were nowhere as lush as Brian's, and not only because they weren't  double-tracked. Brian was certainly able to take the best parts of his influences and meld them into something new-sounding.
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« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2006, 09:53:48 AM »

Brian was certainly able to take the best parts of his influences and meld them into something new-sounding.

Couldn't agree more. 

Mitchell, I don't own it, but maybe someone here will upload it for us.  It's been ten or twelve years, but I recall that the song (which I think was just a snippet) included a spoof about them meeting the Beach Boys and portrayed the Beach Boys as ignorant pop hillbillies who didn't know no chords or nuthin'-  to that general effect.  Similar to the way the Beatles were parodied as the Mosquitoes on "Gilligan's Island".
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« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2006, 11:04:09 AM »

I don't hear their Pet Sounds, does anyone else?

Most of the people who have insulted the Beach Boys have been lesser musicians or groups. Pete Townshend mocking "Good Vibrations" because it was complex, and then mocking Pet Sounds fans as people sympathetic to the personal woes of Brian Wilson. Townshend sounded like a bitter fool saying those things, and it took him a few years to get with the picture.
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« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2006, 12:13:25 PM »

The Beach Boys vocals are sloppy and ameteurish in a certain context.  I mean, compared to the Freshmen who hit their pitches immediately and hold the notes for exactly the same amount of time, the Beach Boys sound very sloppy.  But Sloppy doesn't equal bad.  It just means that they tend to slide into their pitches and aren't always right on the nose rhythmically.  So what if they're not?
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Surfer Joe
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« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2006, 12:35:46 PM »

Most of the people who have insulted the Beach Boys have been lesser musicians or groups. Pete Townshend mocking "Good Vibrations" because it was complex, and then mocking Pet Sounds fans as people sympathetic to the personal woes of Brian Wilson. Townshend sounded like a bitter fool saying those things, and it took him a few years to get with the picture.

I wouldn't call Townshend a lesser talent, even in 1966, but it was kind of hilariously ironic to have that repsonse coming from him of all people- perhaps the ultimate musical navel-gazer.  How many songs has Pete written about his own...self-gratification?  Isn't he currently involved in some big project of revisiting his own childhood in great detail?  Not that there's anything wrong with that...just odd to hear him criticize anyone else for the particular sin of being musically self-absorbed is funny to me.

I think he must have thought that popping off at other artists was a good policy back then- check out his 60s swipes at the Beatles in "The Kids Are Alright" film.
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« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2006, 12:38:37 PM »

The Beach Boys vocals are sloppy and ameteurish in a certain context.  I mean, compared to the Freshmen who hit their pitches immediately and hold the notes for exactly the same amount of time, the Beach Boys sound very sloppy.  But Sloppy doesn't equal bad.  It just means that they tend to slide into their pitches and aren't always right on the nose rhythmically.  So what if they're not?

A slightly surprising comment from you...but I think I know what you mean.  I think of them as being ears-of-a-dog (as Mike would say) precise most of the time, but the Freshmen, by comparison, are not so much tightly on pitchand rhythm as simpy tight-assed- to my ears. 

I would say the Beach Boys were looser, with more feeling and sincerity.
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Reverend Joshua Sloane
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« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2006, 01:50:07 PM »



I would say the Beach Boys were looser, with more feeling and sincerity.

Which could be credited to the group and not Brian. He wanted them to be as tight and perfect as possible, while possibly the group's annoyance at repeated takes caused them to have that "sloppy" sound. I bet a thousand dollars that nobody in the group except Brian cares about the California Girls slightly off beat vocals.
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« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2006, 01:50:51 PM »

Didn't I read something around here recently about Brian liking the 'notes between the notes'? About how things sound more alive with them? Take that slightly wobbly vocal sound, and double it - makes it fuller and more interesting. Yeah, the BB's tended to slide into pitches a lot more too - I always thought that was by design. A very cool effect on those sustained notes.

Now I've got 'Poinciana' by the FF going thru my head - damn.
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Reverend Joshua Sloane
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« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2006, 02:26:17 PM »

Notes between the notes?

What do you mean?

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« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2006, 02:47:30 PM »

He means that when you're not quite on pitch, you're in between the note you're trying to hit and the semitone below it.  Microtonality.  It's what creates the chorus effect, same way a chorus pedal works on a guitar, by detuning a copy of the signal.
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« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2006, 06:31:31 PM »

He means that when you're not quite on pitch, you're in between the note you're trying to hit and the semitone below it.  Microtonality.  It's what creates the chorus effect, same way a chorus pedal works on a guitar, by detuning a copy of the signal.

Thank you for explaining that properly. I don't really think they did that on purpose, but it sounded good. By accident or design, they had a great sound. Surely Brian knew the abilities and limitations of his group, and exploited them to the max.

Just listening to some of 'Destination Moon' by the Ames Brothers - now those fellas could sing. One of them had this great deep bass voice that rumbles through the four-part harmonies. Different sounding and nice.
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« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2006, 05:31:03 PM »

He means that when you're not quite on pitch, you're in between the note you're trying to hit and the semitone below it.  Microtonality.  It's what creates the chorus effect, same way a chorus pedal works on a guitar, by detuning a copy of the signal.

Whenever I record multiple vocals, and mix to mono, I hate that chorus sound. It sounds terrible, but yet I hear it on other things which sound fine. That's a factor to why i've basically quit recording, i'm way too much of a self perfectionist. That quirk in my personality has me living like a disgusting slob, so self-absorbed in my disgust because if I tried to live better i'd fail miserably trying to be perfect. My 8-track sits by my window mostly unused.
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« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2006, 05:31:59 PM »

"She Knows Me Too Well" has pretty sloppy and lazy backing vocals from the guys.
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« Reply #19 on: April 14, 2006, 08:20:05 PM »

I think one of the main reasons for the similarity of "nice" blends with the FF and the BB is the whole "family" issue - in the FF you got two brothers and a cousin and with the BB you got three brothers and a cousin. Genetically similar vocal chords make for very nice blends - almost the same voice but not quite. I love the FF and the BB equally but at the same time I find them totally different - the FF are much "looser" in the sense that they sound like they can do those amazing harmonies in their sleep whereas the BB sometimes sound a little forced and rough (keeping in mind that the FF were alot older in their heyday than the BB were). The FF songs that sound most like the BB to me are "While You Are Gone" and "Oh Lonely Winter" - I'll try and post them tomorrow if I can get a chance.
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« Reply #20 on: April 15, 2006, 07:32:58 PM »

and at least one as bald as an egg (maybe their fortunes would have changed if that fella wore a cap or something.)

 LOL He should of taken pointers from Mr. Love.
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