What Makes A Beach Boy?

[rn57]

This started to weigh on my mind when I watched Dominic O'Neill's fan clip of TWGMTR
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yg8QqwWb3RI

the day it went up. In it, Youtubing SSers will recall, each of the nine official Beach Boys appears, each identified by their names at the bottom of the screen. But the first day the clip appeared, there were eleven so identified. Glen Campbell and Van Dyke Parks were included. The clip was then taken down for a while - I think the screen said BRI or EMI, forget which, had an "objection to the content" - then was restored, minus Glen and VDP.  Yeah, we can all guess who raised the objection. But this time I'd say it was justified. You have to remember there are a lot of kids just discovering the BBs who would see that and think Glen and Van Dyke were regular members of the band.  Until they looked at Wikipedia, that is.

But that set me to thinking: what are the requirements for one to call onself an actual member of the Beach Boys? I thought about it and boiled them down to the following....

The individual has
a) Sung and played in the studio with the band.
b) Written songs recorded by the band.
c) Sung and played onstage with the band.

And would have to have done all three.

This would cover the Wilsons, Mike (since his early sax work and keyboard Theremin thingy cover the playing), Bruce, Al, Blondie, Ricky. It doesn't completely cover Dave who, far as I know, never had a songwriting credit with the band (the NASCAR CD wouldn't count) but hey, his enormous initial (and current) contribution to the band's sound offsets that.

It wouldn't cover Glen, who didn't write or sing with them in the studio, or Van Dyke, who as far as I know never took the stage with them (probably to his relief).

Remarkably, it nearly covers Daryl Dragon - except for the singing. This brings to mind the fact that Dragon has said in an interview or two that the guys were ready to have him be a full-scale member if he went to Holland with them instead of going out on his own with his bride-to-be.

Of course, attaining a),b) and c) in the case of some members took a while...like years.

But this sets me to thinking - of those in the backing lineups over the years, who's come as close as The Captain to making the transition to full-scale Beach Boy, or come near it?  Well...that might make me bring in a name or two that might overly dominate the discussion....so (for the time being) further deponent saith not, to borrow a favored phrase of one of our literary elder statesmen.

[Jon Stebbins]

No, its simple. You are making it way more complicated than it is. You have to be listed (and pictured) on one of their studio albums as one of The Beach Boys. That's all.

Brian, Dennis, Carl, Mike and Dave are "The Beach Boys" on their original recording contract and legal filings...so they are a no brainer. Al was a founding member. No brainer. Bruce was pictured and listed as a Beach Boy on something like eight of their albums. Blondie and Ricky were listed and pictured as Beach Boys on two (three if we count In Concert) No one else meets this criteria.

Billy Hinsche would be the closest person who wasn't. He was aksed to officially join in '69 and declined, he toured, sang, etc... and was a family member.
Daryl Dragon and Glen Campbell would be the next closest because they both were also asked to agree to official BB's status and declined. Now its Jeff who is the closest. But again, none of them meet the above criteria.

[rn57]

I thought about Billy after I started this thread. He probably comes closer to being a full scale BB than Daryl Dragon because, as Carl's brother in law, he was family. That's why his working with the young'uns (well, middle aged 'uns too) in California Saga is the closest thing to having one of the BBs working with them.

And where the photo thing goes...as I recall Friends wass the first album to have Bruce on the cover. Does that mean he didn't become a Beach Boy until three years after he recorded "California Girls?"

[rn57]

And now the name has been invoked...meaning I might as well have titled this thread "What Has Jeff Done To Deserve To Be A Beach Boy?"

[Jon Stebbins]

Regarding Bruce..., he's sort of there on Beach Boys Party (slightly)...He is definitely on the (back) cover of Pet Sounds in his Beach Boys uniform...and is pictured with all the other guys on Wild Honey. So no. And FYI, he became a Beach Boy when the Beach Boys announced to the press that he had become a Beach Boy in spring 1965. But yes there was a contractual thing that kept him off the cover of Summer Days.

[Phoenix]

Billy's almost joining has always intrigued me and I'd love to know more of the details surrounding it.  He was asked to join in 1969, to possibly replace Bruce, if I remember correctly.  Was Bruce on the outs for being a "square" at the time?  Does anyone know the actual reason Billy turned down the offer?  I also seem to recall (tho I think it was in the Badman book so I know, grain of salt...) that Billy was asked again to join, at a second, later date.  Is this true?  If so, when was that?  It's funny because if that's the case, he (obviously) turned them down then, too.  But as far as I know, he was the first non-member (discounting Glen) to sing lead vocals in the live shows.  

In addition, to his solo spots, I know he also stood in the front line with the Boys in the group during "Surfer Girl" in the mid to late 70's and beyond.  I also remember hearing about an alternate version of "Honkin' Down The Highway" (I believe) featuring Billy on lead vocals.  With all that considered, you have to wonder why he turned down having official group status that second time (if indeed, it was offered) as I can't think of what more would have been required from him at the time, apart from making more money!  

Any information on this stuff would be GREATLY appreciated, as like I said, I've always wanted to know more of the details.

[Dunderhead]

No, its simple. You are making it way more complicated than it is. You have to be listed (and pictured) on one of their studio albums as one of The Beach Boys. That's all.

Brian, Dennis, Carl, Mike and Dave are "The Beach Boys" on their original recording contract and legal filings...so they are a no brainer. Al was a founding member. No brainer. Bruce was pictured and listed as a Beach Boy on something like eight of their albums. Blondie and Ricky were listed and pictured as Beach Boys on two (three if we count In Concert) No one else meets this criteria.

Billy Hinsche would be the closest person who wasn't. He was aksed to officially join in '69 and declined, he toured, sang, etc... and was a family member.
Daryl Dragon and Glen Campbell would be the next closest because they both were also asked to agree to official BB's status and declined. Now its Jeff who is the closest. But again, none of them meet the above criteria.

This is spot on really, nothing more needs to be said. That's the way it is with bands, the members are whoever the band officially or legally designate. To me The Beach Boys are really Brian, Carl, Dennis, Al, and Mike. Those are the core members, the voting share holders. Bruce, David, Blondie and Ricky were hired musicians that the band designated as full fledged members, simple as that.

[Letsgoawayforawhile]

I'm pretty sure Jack Rieley is technically a member then. Ha.

[Aegir]

To me The Beach Boys are really Brian, Carl, Dennis, Al, and Mike. Those are the core members, the voting share holders. Bruce, David, Blondie and Ricky were hired musicians that the band designated as full fledged members, simple as that.

the distinction you're making is arbitrary and based on sentiment.

[rn57]

Jon's argument that Beach Boy status involves being on an album cover is something I'm still pondering. (I stand corrected about Bruce and the Friends cover - though it was the first time he was on the front cover.)  When it comes to being in publicity photos, Dave, Blondie, Ricky were nearly always in group photos when they were in the band, unless they were sick or something (like Al missing the Summer Days cover session).

But Bruce's case was different. Between 1965 and early 1968, he's absent from a lot of group photos. He wasn't at the San Diego Zoo for the Pet Sounds shoot. And for a while in '66 and '67 there almost seemed to be a weird rule that either Brian or Bruce could be in a group shot but not both. In a lot of the group pics taken before, during, and just after the Smile sessions in LA, he's absent. He's always in the publicity photos taken in Europe but of course there, he was one of the people the fans saw on stage.

A case in point are photos taken with the Maharishi in Dec '67 and the following months. There's the well-known shot by Linda McCartney with the TM founder and Brian looking at each other, grinning, like they're sharing a joke whose punchline is sitting between Dennis and Carl. Bruce isn't in that one. And there's another of them with the Maharashi with Bruce and minus Brian.

Now, how about this question:

If Billy Hinsche had joined as a full-scale member - or Glen Campbell or Darryl Dragon - how would it have altered the Beach Boys sound or Beach Boys history?

In Billy's case, it's hard to say what the overall difference in band chemistry would have been (and a lot might depend on whether Carl and Annie had stayed married), but I don't think it would have made that much difference in the band's musical development.

In Glen's case, I think the musical change would have been immediate and substantial. For one thing, there would have been no point in a world-class guitarist like him remaining a bass player. So they would have gotten a bassist, maybe, and moved Glen to co-lead guitar. Picture him and Carl trading leads. Maybe they would have developed an interplay akin to McGuinn and White, or Peter Lewis and Jerry Miller in Moby Grape.

Also, Glen's strong country roots - and his significant jazz leanings - might have taken Brian's composing into new directions. And that's just speaking of his guitar work. As a singer, Campbell bears a strong resemblance, especially in his ballad work, to Roy Orbison. "Guess I'm Dumb" is the most Orbison-eque song and production Brian ever did. So there might have been more Brian tunes along that line.

And imagine Smile with Glen - him singing "You Are My Sunshine," for example.

In Daryl's case - his somewhat (but not always) lightweight oeuvre in The Captain & Tennille has obscured his pretty substantial gifts as an arranger, shown so well in the two songs with Dennis on CATP. If he'd been in the band as a full contributor the instrumental sound might have moved into some unexpected areas through the '70s.

[I. Spaceman]

  He wasn't at the San Diego Zoo for the Pet Sounds shoot. 

Yeah, he was. He just wasn't in the cover shot. There's an outtake of him at the Zoo in the PS CD booklet.

[rn57]

All right, I forgot about those pics at the Zoo that Bruce is in. I guess what explains his not being on the cover is that there are a lot of critters in it so it would have been hard to squeeze him in.

Forgot to mention that if Dragon had joined as a full scalee member it would have enormously changed Dennis' role, since he would have had an ally and supporter of his songwriting.

[I. Spaceman]

All right, I forgot about those pics at the Zoo that Bruce is in. I guess what explains his not being on the cover is that there are a lot of critters in it so it would have been hard to squeeze him in.

Forgot to mention that if Dragon had joined as a full scalee member it would have enormously changed Dennis' role, since he would have had an ally and supporter of his songwriting.

No, there's definitely a reason Bruce wasn't on the cover of that and Party, even tho he was there. The same reason (contractual?) he wasn't on Summer Days? He isn't pictured on either of the Best Ofs that came out between PS and Smiley either. I wonder if he would have been pictured on Smiley, considering he wasn't involved in that record for the most part.

[rn57]

Well, in the case of Best and Best Vol 2, Bruce is not on the tracks except for California Girls, Barbara Ann and Little Girl, so that may have been the reason for leaving him off the cover.

[I. Spaceman]

True, but if he had been pictured on Pet Sounds, I bet he would have been pictured on the Best Ofs as well.

[Jon Stebbins]

Again I think M57 is trying to make this more complicated than it really is. The Beach Boys themselves have only designated 9 people as official band members. Only those guys are listed that way by the band, and pictured on their record covers. No other criteria needed.

BTW...Bruce is not "featured" on the '65/66 covers because of contractual things with Columbia that had to run their course, as was stated up the thread. Beginning in '67 that was no longer a problem. Al was not on the SDSN cover as we all know, but many don't realize Al was also not part of the All Summer Long cover shoot. His photos were added later (notice he's alone in them).

Regarding Bruce being in some early publicity shots and Brian being in others, that's absolutely true. It seems like they tried to keep the visual "number" of Beach Boys at five for some reason when projecting their image in the '65/66 period. It was an either/or situation...either Brian...or Bruce. But it wasn't exactly a secret that Bruce was an official member as the Beach Boys stated that he was to the press in spring '65.

Another thing to consider... Remember Al was back and touring with the BB's in place of Brian in April of '63, and he's on four or five tracks on the Surfer Girl album...so, in a way, there were six Beach Boys in '63 (Brian, Dennis, Carl, Mike, Dave and Al) but Al was not made official until after Dave left. Again, they preferred to project the image of "five", even though there were six working on the music. However I have at least one "posed" photo of the Beach Boys from '63 that is of the lineup (Carl, Dennis, Mike, Dave and Al) and I'm not talking about the Hawaii beach shots. Also the Beach Boys submitted ad copy to magazines in early '64 that still included David in the photo and his name in the text, and no Al. Interesting.

[I. Spaceman]

BTW...Bruce is not "featured" on the '65/66 covers because of contractual things with Columbia that had to run their course, as was stated up the thread. 

You only stated that in reference specifically to Summer Days. I was wondering if that was true of the following albums as well, thanks for clarifying.

[Jon Stebbins]

BTW...Bruce is not "featured" on the '65/66 covers because of contractual things with Columbia that had to run their course, as was stated up the thread. 

You only stated that in reference specifically to Summer Days. I was wondering if that was true of the following albums as well, thanks for clarifying.

Its a little grey because they have him fairly prominent on the Pet Sounds (back) cover...and then the next album has no group photo. Wild Honey he's equal with the others. So not sure if he was legally clear in mid '66 or if it wasn't until '67. But definitely not clear in '65.

[joe_blow]

To delve further into this, of the 9 official members there have been, would it be correct to state that 6 (Brian,Carl,Dennis,Mike,Al, and Bruce) have been at one time or another, voting members of BRI?

I think Al became a member in the 70's and Bruce was at some point, but sold his shares?

[Wah Wah Wah Ooooo]

One thing that seems odd to me regarding "official" band member status:

I absolutely believe Blondie and Ricky were full members and made a great contribution to the band, but it seems to me like there is a small handful of non-official members that made a larger contribution to the band's entire career, just through performing with the band for so long if nothing else...Ed Carter, Bill Hinsche, Mike Kawalski, Bobby Figuero, Mike Meros, Jeff Foskett would be my list. I think these guys are as important or more so than Ricky and Blondie, if we're talking about the overall career.

[Ron]

It's like "What makes a Temptation" or "What makes a Platter" or "What makes a Rolling Stone".    You dont' really want to know the answer.  It takes you somewhere you don't want to go.  If you want to cut to the chase, I'll simplify it down to what it is.











































They made the name up, none of them were actually Beach Boys, save possibly Dennis.  From the very beginning other people were involved with the sound, in recent years none of them do anything except sing a little bit, there's 100's of session musicians who have played more than Brian Wilson himself played on this last album.




















But to me, A Beach Boys is the original 5, plus David.  Plus Bruce. 


Damnit, i'm doing it too. 

[Jon Stebbins]

To delve further into this, of the 9 official members there have been, would it be correct to state that 6 (Brian,Carl,Dennis,Mike,Al, and Bruce) have been at one time or another, voting members of BRI?

I think Al became a member in the 70's and Bruce was at some point, but sold his shares?

There were five original (20% each) contracted Beach Boys (Brian, Dennis, Carl, Mike and David). Upon his departure David's share or royalty was "absorbed" into the business (see definition of swindled), and Brian, Dennis, Carl and Mike remained the equal business principals, while Al was hired as a salaried sideman with a reduced royalty. According to Al...in 1973 he finally became an equal partner. That seems a bit late, but that's what he told me. What share, percentage etc.. that Bruce was given and how that transitioned chronologically I am not aware of the details. But all of this began long before there was a "BRI" so to speak.

BTW we learned from legal filings having to do with the Beach Boys lawsuit against Capitol, that legally David was still (technically) a contracted Beach Boy until 1967 (unbeknownst to him). Murry really pulled some slippery stuff during his lifetime and that's why its hard to get a handle on it.

[joe_blow]

To delve further into this, of the 9 official members there have been, would it be correct to state that 6 (Brian,Carl,Dennis,Mike,Al, and Bruce) have been at one time or another, voting members of BRI?

I think Al became a member in the 70's and Bruce was at some point, but sold his shares?

There were five original (20% each) contracted Beach Boys (Brian, Dennis, Carl, Mike and David). Upon his departure David's share or royalty was "absorbed" into the business (see definition of swindled), and Brian, Dennis, Carl and Mike remained the equal business principals, while Al was hired as a salaried sideman with a reduced royalty. According to Al...in 1973 he finally became an equal partner. That seems a bit late, but that's what he told me. What share, percentage etc.. that Bruce was given and how that transitioned chronologically I am not aware of the details. But all of this began long before there was a "BRI" so to speak.

BTW we learned from legal filings having to do with the Beach Boys lawsuit against Capitol, that legally David was still (technically) a contracted Beach Boy until 1967 (unbeknownst to him). Murry really pulled some slippery stuff during his lifetime and that's why its hard to get a handle on it.

Thanks, Jon. So, is that saying that Al was still a slaried musician until 1973? What happened that he was able to join then? Did he have to buy shares to join? Also, is Dave's status now more than that say of Jeff? I know Dave is being billed as a member, but I would assume he was brought in at a set rate?

[Jon Stebbins]

To delve further into this, of the 9 official members there have been, would it be correct to state that 6 (Brian,Carl,Dennis,Mike,Al, and Bruce) have been at one time or another, voting members of BRI?

I think Al became a member in the 70's and Bruce was at some point, but sold his shares?

There were five original (20% each) contracted Beach Boys (Brian, Dennis, Carl, Mike and David). Upon his departure David's share or royalty was "absorbed" into the business (see definition of swindled), and Brian, Dennis, Carl and Mike remained the equal business principals, while Al was hired as a salaried sideman with a reduced royalty. According to Al...in 1973 he finally became an equal partner. That seems a bit late, but that's what he told me. What share, percentage etc.. that Bruce was given and how that transitioned chronologically I am not aware of the details. But all of this began long before there was a "BRI" so to speak.

BTW we learned from legal filings having to do with the Beach Boys lawsuit against Capitol, that legally David was still (technically) a contracted Beach Boy until 1967 (unbeknownst to him). Murry really pulled some slippery stuff during his lifetime and that's why its hard to get a handle on it.

Thanks, Jon. So, is that saying that Al was still a slaried musician until 1973? What happened that he was able to join then? Did he have to buy shares to join? Also, is Dave's status now more than that say of Jeff? I know Dave is being billed as a member, but I would assume he was brought in at a set rate?

I'm saying that's what Al told me...that he wasn't an equal partner until '73. I haven't examined the paperwork so i can only say what i was told. The one thing that happened in '73 that stands out...Murry died.

Dave's current contract terms are private. Sorry.

[drbeachboy]

No, its simple. You are making it way more complicated than it is. You have to be listed (and pictured) on one of their studio albums as one of The Beach Boys. That's all.

Brian, Dennis, Carl, Mike and Dave are "The Beach Boys" on their original recording contract and legal filings...so they are a no brainer. Al was a founding member. No brainer. Bruce was pictured and listed as a Beach Boy on something like eight of their albums. Blondie and Ricky were listed and pictured as Beach Boys on two (three if we count In Concert) No one else meets this criteria.

Billy Hinsche would be the closest person who wasn't. He was aksed to officially join in '69 and declined, he toured, sang, etc... and was a family member.
Daryl Dragon and Glen Campbell would be the next closest because they both were also asked to agree to official BB's status and declined. Now its Jeff who is the closest. But again, none of them meet the above criteria.

What about Darryl appearing on the cover of the 45 release of I Need A Mess Of Help..., or was that Marcella? Yikes, my memory betrays me.