I Never Hated Mike Love Til I Heard This..

[Andrew G. Doe]

Where can you get the portion of the tape where Brian coaches Mike? Who here has actually heard it?

We've all heard about it, but few of us have actually heard it. WE WANT PROOF!

I have, like most other folk here.

[Mr. Cohen]

Actually, only a few seem to have heard it, and it's those same couple of people that assure us Brian coached Mike the whole way through. But, without a transcript or audio copy of the full conversation, how can those of us not "in the know" be so sure of what in fact happened? We need the full context to understand how you and others are interpreting the situation. All we know is that it's incredibly easy to find the rough performance of "H&V" with Mike's overdubs, and yet much more difficult to find the rest/

[Mr. Cohen]

For example, for a long time, there was that story of Brian working on Pet Sounds level material in Florida in the late '70s, only for the material to be lost/destroyed. Later, though, when some actual takes of "Calendar Girl" and other songs Brian tinkered with at the time were bootlegged, it became obvious that the person who created the story was likely starstruck and exaggerating the quality of the work. It's good to have the source material available.

[SMiLE Brian]

Actually, only a few seem to have heard it, and it's those same couple of people that assure us Brian coached Mike the whole way through. But, without a transcript or audio copy of the full conversation, how can those of us not "in the know" be so sure of what in fact happened? We need the full context to understand how you and others are interpreting the situation. All we know is that it's incredibly easy to find the rough performance of "H&V" with Mike's overdubs, and yet much more difficult to find the rest/

I used to have it, its low quality and hard to hear, but you can hear Brian coaching Mike and laughing the whole time.

[Mr. Cohen]

Dang, and just when I was so close to proving that Myke Luhv was evil! 

[Rocker]

For example, for a long time, there was that story of Brian working on Pet Sounds level material in Florida in the late '70s, only for the material to be lost/destroyed. Later, though, when some actual takes of "Calendar Girl" and other songs Brian tinkered with at the time were bootlegged, it became obvious that the person who created the story was likely starstruck and exaggerating the quality of the work. It's good to have the source material available.

Wasn't it Ed Carter who mentioned Brian was cutting such great stuff at that time ? I think I have heard something like that but I may be mis-remembering

[Mr. Cohen]

I'm not sure, but you can hear in songs like "Calendar Girl" some of the things that were referenced to as "amazing", and while it's not bad in any way, it reminds me more of the kind of electronic wizardry Brian engaged in on songs like "Child of Winter" and "Battle Hymn of the Republic" than Pet Sounds.

[AndrewHickey]

Actually, only a few seem to have heard it, and it's those same couple of people that assure us Brian coached Mike the whole way through. But, without a transcript or audio copy of the full conversation, how can those of us not "in the know" be so sure of what in fact happened? We need the full context to understand how you and others are interpreting the situation. All we know is that it's incredibly easy to find the rough performance of "H&V" with Mike's overdubs, and yet much more difficult to find the rest/

Anyone who wants to hear it can hear it. I've got a copy, not from any secret network of in-the-know traders, but by the simple expedient of typing "Lei'd In Hawaii Rehearsal MP3" into Google and downloading it from the very first hit I get.

You can hear that Mike does multiple takes, clearly working off a rough script but improvising based around it, that Brian is guiding him -- in fact if I remember right it's not even an overdub, but recorded *at the same time* as the band singing -- and that this is something Brian clearly approves of (you can hear him literally screaming with laughter).

The reason that version isn't as well-known as the edited version is not because only a couple of people have access to it, but because it mostly consists of a bass-and-organ instrumental run-through of the verse riff, the bit everyone knows, and a similar-but-shorter second take which ends with Brian singing about 'I've been eating so much p*ssy'. It's *dull*. In fact, if you have any Lei'd boots, chances are you have the track but have skipped it because it starts with a long, dull, instrumental run-through.

[Cam Mott]

But how do we know that Mike wasn't bullying Brian and destroying his soul [Brian's soul, not Mike's] by somehow forcing Brian to pretend to laugh and enjoy and encourage Mike and ask Mike into the booth to listen to the result [and gloat presumably]. Surely it is Mike pulling the strings to make Brian appear to be pulling the strings.

[AndrewHickey]

But how do we know that Mike wasn't bullying Brian and destroying his soul [Brian's soul, not Mike's] by somehow forcing Brian to pretend to laugh and enjoy and encourage Mike and ask Mike into the booth to listen to the result [and gloat presumably]. Surely it is Mike pulling the strings to make Brian appear to be pulling the strings.

Of course! It all makes so much sense now! In fact... I bet Mike secretly wrote all of Smile himself, but told the world it was Brian, and then let it unfinished just so Brian would look like a failure, and he started rumours about how he didn't like Smile to throw us off the scent. THAT's how far Mike Love will go to destroy Brian.

In fact, the lyrics to the first verse of Kokomo are a *perfect anagram* of "Brian Wilson sings off key and I'm going to steal his band. I, Mike Love, hate Wilson!", with only a handful of letters (t,h,e,F,l,o,r,d,a,T,h,e,r,e,p,l,a,c,e,c,a,l,l,e,d,K,o,k,o,T,w,h,e,r,e,w,a,t,o,g,e,t,a,w,a,y,f,r,o,m,t,a,l,o,e,t,e,a,n,d,T,o,p,c,d,r,n,t,i,n,y,o,u,r,h,a,d,e,l,l,b,e,f,a,l,l,n,i,n,l,t,h,e,r,h,y,t,h,m,f,a,e,d,r,u,m,d,o,w,n,K,o,k,o,m and  o) left over. Conclusive proof of Mike's evil, I'm sure you'll agree.

[Aegir]

The original, Kokomo, is many times better than this stuff with girls' artificially sounding R'n'B-like vocs & uninteresting guitar solo, not mentioning those horrible background harmonies and needless handclaps and shouts.

I think you misunderstand the female vocals, that's Mike Love's daughter Ambha who was a very young girl when that was recorded. it's the typical "include children on a Christmas song" trick.

I really like the guitar solo in this song. did you know this song was officially released as a Beach Boys song on the compilation Hope for the Holidays?

[Cam Mott]

But how do we know that Mike wasn't bullying Brian and destroying his soul [Brian's soul, not Mike's] by somehow forcing Brian to pretend to laugh and enjoy and encourage Mike and ask Mike into the booth to listen to the result [and gloat presumably]. Surely it is Mike pulling the strings to make Brian appear to be pulling the strings.

Of course! It all makes so much sense now! In fact... I bet Mike secretly wrote all of Smile himself, but told the world it was Brian, and then let it unfinished just so Brian would look like a failure, and he started rumours about how he didn't like Smile to throw us off the scent. THAT's how far Mike Love will go to destroy Brian.

In fact, the lyrics to the first verse of Kokomo are a *perfect anagram* of "Brian Wilson sings off key and I'm going to steal his band. I, Mike Love, hate Wilson!", with only a handful of letters (t,h,e,F,l,o,r,d,a,T,h,e,r,e,p,l,a,c,e,c,a,l,l,e,d,K,o,k,o,T,w,h,e,r,e,w,a,t,o,g,e,t,a,w,a,y,f,r,o,m,t,a,l,o,e,t,e,a,n,d,T,o,p,c,d,r,n,t,i,n,y,o,u,r,h,a,d,e,l,l,b,e,f,a,l,l,n,i,n,l,t,h,e,r,h,y,t,h,m,f,a,e,d,r,u,m,d,o,w,n,K,o,k,o,m and  o) left over. Conclusive proof of Mike's evil, I'm sure you'll agree.

I do.  Agree, that is.  Not assent to marriage. Though you are quite the handsome fellow.

[Micha]

Of course! It all makes so much sense now! In fact... I bet Mike secretly wrote all of Smile himself, but told the world it was Brian, and then let it unfinished just so Brian would look like a failure, and he started rumours about how he didn't like Smile to throw us off the scent. THAT's how far Mike Love will go to destroy Brian.

Now that makes sense.

[drbeachboy]

For example, for a long time, there was that story of Brian working on Pet Sounds level material in Florida in the late '70s, only for the material to be lost/destroyed. Later, though, when some actual takes of "Calendar Girl" and other songs Brian tinkered with at the time were bootlegged, it became obvious that the person who created the story was likely starstruck and exaggerating the quality of the work. It's good to have the source material available.

Wow, ballsy of you equating Andrew as maybe exaggerating.

[drbeachboy]

But how do we know that Mike wasn't bullying Brian and destroying his soul [Brian's soul, not Mike's] by somehow forcing Brian to pretend to laugh and enjoy and encourage Mike and ask Mike into the booth to listen to the result [and gloat presumably]. Surely it is Mike pulling the strings to make Brian appear to be pulling the strings.

Of course! It all makes so much sense now! In fact... I bet Mike secretly wrote all of Smile himself, but told the world it was Brian, and then let it unfinished just so Brian would look like a failure, and he started rumours about how he didn't like Smile to throw us off the scent. THAT's how far Mike Love will go to destroy Brian.

In fact, the lyrics to the first verse of Kokomo are a *perfect anagram* of "Brian Wilson sings off key and I'm going to steal his band. I, Mike Love, hate Wilson!", with only a handful of letters (t,h,e,F,l,o,r,d,a,T,h,e,r,e,p,l,a,c,e,c,a,l,l,e,d,K,o,k,o,T,w,h,e,r,e,w,a,t,o,g,e,t,a,w,a,y,f,r,o,m,t,a,l,o,e,t,e,a,n,d,T,o,p,c,d,r,n,t,i,n,y,o,u,r,
h,a,d,e,l,l,b,e,f,a,l,l,n,i,n,l,t,h,e,r,h,y,t,h,m,f,a,e,d,r,u,m,d,o,w,n,K,o,k,o,m and  o) left over. Conclusive proof of Mike's evil, I'm sure you'll agree.

Beautiful, absolutely beautiful.

[Disney Boy (1985)]

I don't think this clip is a very good justification for hating Mike - as has been said, although there's no denying the relish with which Mike speaks the words, Brian wrote 'em! There are however numerous other far more genuine reasons for disliking Mr Love...

[Theydon Bois]

With all due respect and deference to those making a show of yawning about how many times they've had to go over this, I don't think the fact that it was written and directed by Brian makes this recording any less compelling as a document of group dynamics.  Certainly, he wrote the words to send himself up, but he also pointedly put those words into the mouth of the very man often reported to hold not dissimilar opinions.  Why would he write it for Mike, as opposed to one of the others (or himself), if that wasn't part of the joke?

No joke, not even a Brian Wilson one, gets made in a vacuum.  It wouldn't have been funny if it hadn't resonated in some way.  And so I don't think it's completely incorrect to draw inferences about Mike's attitudes from this skit.

[drbeachboy]

I don't think this clip is a very good justification for hating Mike - as has been said, although there's no denying the relish with which Mike speaks the words, Brian wrote 'em! There are however numerous other far more genuine reasons for disliking Mr Love...

Wow, let's hate Mike now, because he he did a believable job doing the skit.

[Autotune]

For example, for a long time, there was that story of Brian working on Pet Sounds level material in Florida in the late '70s, only for the material to be lost/destroyed. Later, though, when some actual takes of "Calendar Girl" and other songs Brian tinkered with at the time were bootlegged, it became obvious that the person who created the story was likely starstruck and exaggerating the quality of the work. It's good to have the source material available.

Wasn't it Ed Carter who mentioned Brian was cutting such great stuff at that time ? I think I have heard something like that but I may be mis-remembering

Yep. Ed on BBFUN newsletter.

[drbeachboy]

With all due respect and deference to those making a show of yawning about how many times they've had to go over this, I don't think the fact that it was written and directed by Brian makes this recording any less compelling as a document of group dynamics.  Certainly, he wrote the words to send himself up, but he also pointedly put those words into the mouth of the very man often reported to hold not dissimilar opinions.  Why would he write it for Mike, as opposed to one of the others (or himself), if that wasn't part of the joke?

No joke, not even a Brian Wilson one, gets made in a vacuum.  It wouldn't have been funny if it hadn't resonated in some way.  And so I don't think it's completely incorrect to draw inferences about Mike's attitudes from this skit.

If you believe this, then I have some great looking swamp land that I would love to sell to you. It even has a patch of (quick)sand to place your piano in.

[Cam Mott]

Or does it show that Brian wasn't as precious about and in love with SMiLE and Parksian lyrics at the time as we have wanted to make him out to be and he dumped it/them for his own very straight forward reasons he claimed but we don't want to believe.

[drbeachboy]

Or does it show that Brian wasn't as precious about and in love with SMiLE and Parksian lyrics at the time as we have wanted to make him out to be and he dumped it/them for his own very straight forward reasons he claimed but we don't want to believe.

Very good point.

[Theydon Bois]

With all due respect and deference to those making a show of yawning about how many times they've had to go over this, I don't think the fact that it was written and directed by Brian makes this recording any less compelling as a document of group dynamics.  Certainly, he wrote the words to send himself up, but he also pointedly put those words into the mouth of the very man often reported to hold not dissimilar opinions.  Why would he write it for Mike, as opposed to one of the others (or himself), if that wasn't part of the joke?

No joke, not even a Brian Wilson one, gets made in a vacuum.  It wouldn't have been funny if it hadn't resonated in some way.  And so I don't think it's completely incorrect to draw inferences about Mike's attitudes from this skit.

If you believe this, then I have some great looking swamp land that I would love to sell to you. It even has a patch of (quick)sand to place your piano in.

Well, that seems unnecessary.  I didn't say I hated Mike, after all, nor did I comment on any theories as to why Brian junked Smile.  I think this skit sounds like Brian and Mike sending up old arguments, with both of them in on the joke.

[KittyKat]

With all due respect and deference to those making a show of yawning about how many times they've had to go over this, I don't think the fact that it was written and directed by Brian makes this recording any less compelling as a document of group dynamics.  Certainly, he wrote the words to send himself up, but he also pointedly put those words into the mouth of the very man often reported to hold not dissimilar opinions.  Why would he write it for Mike, as opposed to one of the others (or himself), if that wasn't part of the joke?

No joke, not even a Brian Wilson one, gets made in a vacuum.  It wouldn't have been funny if it hadn't resonated in some way.  And so I don't think it's completely incorrect to draw inferences about Mike's attitudes from this skit.

But wasn't Brian himself very disappointed that "Heroes & Villains" only made the lower half of the Top Ten, then disappeared off the charts shortly afterwards?  Mike wasn't the only one who had the attitude that the Beach Boys should sell records, especially after the huge commercial success of "Good Vibrations."

[drbeachboy]

With all due respect and deference to those making a show of yawning about how many times they've had to go over this, I don't think the fact that it was written and directed by Brian makes this recording any less compelling as a document of group dynamics.  Certainly, he wrote the words to send himself up, but he also pointedly put those words into the mouth of the very man often reported to hold not dissimilar opinions.  Why would he write it for Mike, as opposed to one of the others (or himself), if that wasn't part of the joke?

No joke, not even a Brian Wilson one, gets made in a vacuum.  It wouldn't have been funny if it hadn't resonated in some way.  And so I don't think it's completely incorrect to draw inferences about Mike's attitudes from this skit.

If you believe this, then I have some great looking swamp land that I would love to sell to you. It even has a patch of (quick)sand to place your piano in.

Well, that seems unnecessary.  I didn't say I hated Mike, after all, nor did I comment on any theories as to why Brian junked Smile.  I think this skit sounds like Brian and Mike sending up old arguments, with both of them in on the joke.

I didn't say you hated Mike. You said Mike meant what he said, he didn't, it was acting. Your last sentence here is exactly right, and I agree. You did not state it that way in your original post.