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Author Topic: "Infidels"  (Read 15748 times)
b.dfzo
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« Reply #25 on: December 28, 2005, 08:05:27 PM »

Hate is such a strong word!  I know a stronger one; I love "Desire"!

I don't know if either is a stronger word, necessarily. Maybe you should have tried something like "I super-love Desire!" You know...just to be sure.

I don't know...I think "love" IS stronger than "hate"...can I get a witness?

Stronger concept doesn't make stronger word.

We should have a great fewer disputes in the world if words were taken for what they are - the signs of our ideas only - and not for things themselves.  I think a philosopher once said that.

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Chance
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« Reply #26 on: December 28, 2005, 08:20:18 PM »

>>And another thing: I like Neighborhood Bully independent of whatever/whoever people say is the intended protagonist.
I always took it for granted that it's about Isreal and it's outnumbered, always-at-the-ready-to-defend-itself position in the Middle East.

I don't think "Shot Of Love" is a bad album. Probably my favorite of the Christian period. I like the production, and tracks like "Groom Still Waiting At The Alter" (originally only a b-side), "Every Grain Of Sand," "Heart Of Mine" (go Ringo!), "Property Of Jesus," and "Watered Down Love" are all standouts for me. "Lenny Bruce" is the only real clunker.
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I. Spaceman
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« Reply #27 on: December 28, 2005, 08:23:44 PM »

Hmm, there's a patronising tone to Shot Of Love that chafes me a bit. There's a humility on the first 2 Christian albums that is wonderful. Dylan was never more vulnerable than on I Believe In You and When He Returns. Shot was certainly the last OK-sounding album he did till Mercy.
Groom's Still Waiting and Grain are on his Top 50 best ever, without question.
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b.dfzo
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« Reply #28 on: December 28, 2005, 08:58:15 PM »

Hmm, there's a patronising tone to Shot Of Love that chafes me a bit. There's a humility on the first 2 Christian albums that is wonderful. Dylan was never more vulnerable than on I Believe In You and When He Returns. Shot was certainly the last OK-sounding album he did till Mercy.
Groom's Still Waiting and Grain are on his Top 50 best ever, without question.

Don't forget "Do Right To Me Baby"!
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Chance
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« Reply #29 on: December 28, 2005, 10:34:39 PM »

Quote
Hmm, there's a patronising tone to Shot Of Love that chafes me a bit. There's a humility on the first 2 Christian albums that is wonderful. Dylan was never more vulnerable than on I Believe In You and When He Returns.
Yeah, that's a good point, I wouldn't disagree with that, but you know why I can take the loss of that in stride on "Shot Of Love"? I see it as almost a continuation of his "Play fucking loud" attitude with the folkies who were aghast at his direction in the mid sixties. By SOL he had alienated a whole new generation of followers, people were sick and tired of the Christian themes - I'll handle my own soul, thanks, I didn't ask for your help - and writing him off big time. I remember somebody at the time, Paul Nelson? Ralph J. Gleason? making a grand statement in one review along the lines of, "I've travelled Bob's road for twenty years now, forgiven him alot of sins in the past, but I can't go on anymore, this is where I jump ship" - and Dylan just wasn't backing down. (Well, not until the next album, anyway.) It is patronizing, even grating to some, no doubt, but I admire that unfailing, stubborn determination of his to say what he wanted to say, completely indifferent to the reaction he was getting. I bet by that point he felt he couldn't have toned it down any more than he could have closed the '66 shows with "Blowin' In The Wind."
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I. Spaceman
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« Reply #30 on: December 28, 2005, 11:12:53 PM »

Great points! You're making me rethink that album, damn!  Grin
And the review you were talking about was indeed Paul Nelson, in the review of Shot Of Love in Rolling Stone.
 
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b.dfzo
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« Reply #31 on: December 29, 2005, 07:51:50 AM »

I gaze into the doorway of temptation's angry flame
And every time I pass that way I always hear my name.
Then onward in my journey I come to understand
That every hair is numbered like every grain of sand.

Great lyric.
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Bubba Ho-Tep
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« Reply #32 on: December 30, 2005, 12:39:34 PM »

I like Jokerman alot.

I don't really like much of anything of Dylan's post-Desire output, save for the Wilbury albums and "Time Out Of Mind" and "Love and Theft".

Sometimes I think "Time out of Mind" is my favorite Dylan album. Then Autumn comes.
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dude ll doo
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« Reply #33 on: December 30, 2005, 02:33:49 PM »

isn't that Sly and Robbie on Infidels? the bass and drums kick ass on that album-even though knopfler's production is too Dire Straits-ish.
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I. Spaceman
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« Reply #34 on: December 30, 2005, 02:37:10 PM »

Yep.
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Lester Byrd
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« Reply #35 on: December 30, 2005, 03:00:11 PM »

Dylan's appearance on Letterman promoting Infidels was his best-ever TV appearance. That punky version of "Jokerman" totally smokes the studio version, even if Bob does spend like a minute wandering around the stage looking for the right harmonica.

If you haven't heard it.... Search for Letterman here.
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I. Spaceman
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« Reply #36 on: December 30, 2005, 03:04:10 PM »

That's amazing, I remember it. Don't Start Me Talkin' was amazing, with his backup guys doing the New York Dolls' version and Bob just doing his thing.
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cabinessence
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« Reply #37 on: January 01, 2006, 03:05:42 AM »

Coming late into the discussion, I find the post DESIRE output very hit and miss for a vey long spell. Main problem for me is constantly shifting 'not quite right' production and arrangements more than songs as a rule. STREET LEGAL is very respectable lyric and music wise, good lead vocals too, but it sounds too chintzy overall for me,  especially after the loose and comfortable feel of the past couple albums playing with a long touring band, and marks a worrying partial return to the -pardon me-  late-Elvis mode of SELF PORTRAIT and DYLAN, a piped in muzak backing arrangement.

Changing of the Guard is my favorite song, but We'd Better Think This Over is by far my favorite recording here.

The first two "Christian" records: SLOW TRAIN COMING's a big improvement as a recording, Christianity , for better or worse, is nearly incidental (it's less a holy screed than many of his secular LPs). I can't fault it. I just find it pretty dull in a well sung, played, tasteful way.

Favorite songs: I Believe in You, and Precious Angel

I quite like SAVED. Bob's in full evangelical drag here, and it fits him well enough like Al Green leading his ministry. The material's not especially ultra-outstanding song by song (as in stuff that others might want to cover), but Dylan's got a fully sympathetic backing he's at home in and he performs consistently at his very best imo

SHOT OF LOVE is now and then very exciting indeed, as passionate and tending to blues and folk barebones epiphany as SAVED was mellowly in the groove. I totally approve more or less, a record worth having for sure, and his last truly nearly great one for eons to come.

Maybe he should have stayed Christian.

Transitional INFIDELS is strictly okay far as I'm concerned, not bad but marking time.

EMPIRE BURLESQUE is much, much worse, a rock and roll drunkies and junkies empty super-production only redeemed by the final song, DARK EYES, one of Bob's eternally greatest tracks, played alone and minus all the Ron Wood and famous friends crap...and reprised nicely by Judy Davis passing out  by a toilet in fine film HIGH TIDE: that's quite a tribute: how many late Dylan songs TATTOOED INTO YOUR BRAIN would  you choose to sing as your possibly last testament?

KNOCKED OUT, LOADED: I like BROWNSVILLE GIRL. The rest isn't terrible but it's strictly b-side.

DOWN IN THE GROOVE is much better, it grooves and boozes along comfortably. It's not essential but it's as the title says, and I'm happy to have it.

OH MERCY: mixed feelings. I don't really like the production, someone else's idea of Dylan, but I can't fault the sharp, quick songs, or Bob singing them. Decent.

UNDER THE RED SKY: diminishing returns.

GOOD AS I BEEN TO YOU and WORLD GONE WRONG are a pair of nice, minor bootlegs of Bob playing familiar songs.

TIME OUT OF MIND and LOVE AND THEFT, however, are truly great albums, both, and just in the nick of time.

I'd say, EMPIRE BURLESQUE was his only major wipeout in these years, but I can see how any but the true faithful, not to mention those just hopping on board, might wonder if Dylan was really worth the long haul till he brought it all home once more.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2006, 03:16:17 AM by cabinessence » Logged
Lester Zombie
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« Reply #38 on: January 01, 2006, 10:29:33 AM »



"If you haven't heard it.... Search for Letterman..."

Lester to Lester, I say, "thank you, Lester".
(Did I get our name in there enough?)
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Lester Zombie
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« Reply #39 on: January 03, 2006, 02:53:39 PM »

Dylan's appearance on Letterman promoting Infidels was his best-ever TV appearance. That punky version of "Jokerman" totally smokes the studio version, even if Bob does spend like a minute wandering around the stage looking for the right harmonica.

If you haven't heard it.... Search for Letterman here.

I followed that link and found some good stuff. Thanks, Lester. You're right about the "Jokerman" track. Take out the harmonica and the arrangement could have been swiped from The Clash.
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b.dfzo
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« Reply #40 on: January 04, 2006, 10:54:24 AM »

Check out this video clip from Letterman - it's like watching Newport '65:

http://www.tvtalkin.btinternet.co.uk/letterman1984.rm
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