Murry's 8-page letter to Brian

[Zach95]

Doh!! Did anybody else squint and struggle to read the scan of the original letter only to then find that the text had been reproduced in large font further down the page?

Yes 

[Zack]

Yes.

[Custom Machine]

In the original 2009 thread concerning this letter, one of the most interesting observations came from Carrie Marks, where she said that David told her the letter didn't have anything in it that he hadn't heard Murry rant about a hundred times before.

I'm still curious if the letter was ever actually sent/delivered to Brian.

Speaking of the Lost Beach Boy....

There is an insightful quote from David in there about the resentment Murry felt when Audree's attention shifted to Brian, which seems to be one of the major points in this letter.  So, I said to David, "you were right about Murry...listen to this!"  David's response was to say that he wasn't Freud at 15...he knew about Murry's resentment toward Brian because Murry TOLD him.  He said the letter didn't have anything in it that he hadn't heard Murry rant about a hundred times before...so Brian (and everyone else who would listen) had heard it all long before the letter was written!

It was actually pretty interesting to read for me because of the amount of time I spend on trying to undo the damage that Murry has done to David, so to read about his "honesty" is so absurd, its laughable.  On the other hand, he does makes SOME valid points.   David has been one of the few who has defended Murry, and given him credit for the initial success of the Beach Boys...maybe because he was brain-washed by all the rants outlined in this letter, or maybe because its true.  Either way, after reading this letter, I can't help but feel a little bit sorry for him. And yes, that is coming from someone whose husband was stolen from by Murry! 

[KittyKat]

The letter is sort of crazy, but it reminds me that Murry was  an intelligent man.  He had a high school education or less but could speak/write so eloquently (he probably had a secretary type it up, but I assume he spoke all that verbiage himself).  His quotes from the Rolling Stone interview were very articulate, too.  He wasn't too nice to his sons but he was smart and thoughtful in his twisted way and it may have made Brian a smarter person for being raised by a relatively smart man.  So, that was one good thing, at least.  Murry even seemed to be into Freudian theory, which is an odd interest for a blue-collar surburbanite of his era.  It makes me think he might have read Brian's textbooks he was bringing home from his psychology classes at junior college.

[Cam Mott]

A lot of talk about dishonesty. Wouldn't this coincide with the period where Brian was screwing Mike out of song credit on the publishing?

[onkster]

I believe it's long been determined that Murry did the screwing. So he would be a good one to talk about dishonesty.

[Paulos]

Would any of you dime-store psychologists want to be father to those three boys?

You'd wither.

Care to elaborate further or are you just stoking the fire as usual?

[JanBerryFarm]

Would any of you dime-store psychologists want to be father to those three boys?

You'd wither.

Care to elaborate further or are you just stoking the fire as usual?

Fire? What fire?

I can elaborate.

First off, Murry was a kitten compared to his father. Keep things in context. Unlike today, in the fifties, 'soft' males were in the minority. Murry, like most fathers then, was not a soft male.

Plus, that was the J.D. era. Teenaged guys weren't pussies. High Schools were filled with hoods, and greasers etc etc.
Carl and Brian weren't J.D's, but Dennis was, and so were his buddies, including, young Dave Marks.

Add to that equation a wife who wouldn't cooperate with her husband and reduced what should have been a united effort to raising three boys to basically 'good cop-bad cop'. There's always hell to pay when the mom and dad won't parent in unison.

Beyond all that, no 'ordinary' family would be able to completely cope with the unprecedented and miraculous rise to fame generated by the Beach Boys.

The point I was making was simply this: Unless you could have done a better job, in those days, with that family, under those circumstances, then you probably shouldn't be knocking anyone.

[JanBerryFarm]

Would any of you dime-store psychologists want to be father to those three boys?

You'd wither.

well put.

Thank you.

Somebody gets it. 

[Cam Mott]

I believe it's long been determined that Murry did the screwing. So he would be a good one to talk about dishonesty.

As far as I know it has only been alleged but with no monetary motive. Brian however had monetary motive and opportunity and an alleged history of dishonesty in business dealings.

[KittyKat]

I believe it's long been determined that Murry did the screwing. So he would be a good one to talk about dishonesty.

As far as I know it has only been alleged but with no monetary motive. Brian however had monetary motive and opportunity and an alleged history of dishonesty in business dealings.

Murry may have been pressuring him not to work with Mike or not to give him credits whenever possible.  So much went down behind the scenes that no one will ever know for sure.  Murry had a habit of playing both sides according to various band members.  Brian and Mike worked it out in the courts and I'm sure they're both glad to have it behind them.  If Brian hated his cousin so much, I don't think he would have written "Mount Vernon and Fairway," weird as the story-song is.

[Mark Dillon]

I believe it's long been determined that Murry did the screwing. So he would be a good one to talk about dishonesty.

As far as I know it has only been alleged but with no monetary motive. Brian however had monetary motive and opportunity and an alleged history of dishonesty in business dealings.

Murry was a half owner in Sea of Tunes and later wrestled all the publishing from Brian. He always wanted to keep it in the family. He had a monetary motive.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

I believe it's long been determined that Murry did the screwing. So he would be a good one to talk about dishonesty.

As far as I know it has only been alleged but with no monetary motive. Brian however had monetary motive and opportunity and an alleged history of dishonesty in business dealings.

Murry was a half owner in Sea of Tunes and later wrestled all the publishing from Brian. He always wanted to keep it in the family. He had a monetary motive.

Furthermore, it was clearly Murry who had a personal grudge against Mike at this time, not Brian. And when you speak of Brian's "alleged history of dishonesty in business dealings" are you referencing the the dishonesty that Murry himself speaks of (in which "dishonesty" is purely code for his own feelings of being screwed by Brian)? Or is there an actual legitimate source that has suggested this?

Yes, folks, the pendulum has definitely swung too far and this is the kind of absurdity that comes as a consequence.

[KittyKat]

I believe it's long been determined that Murry did the screwing. So he would be a good one to talk about dishonesty.

As far as I know it has only been alleged but with no monetary motive. Brian however had monetary motive and opportunity and an alleged history of dishonesty in business dealings.

Murry was a half owner in Sea of Tunes and later wrestled all the publishing from Brian. He always wanted to keep it in the family. He had a monetary motive.

Furthermore, it was clearly Murry who had a personal grudge against Mike at this time, not Brian. And when you speak of Brian's "alleged history of dishonesty in business dealings" are you referencing the the dishonesty that Murry himself speaks of (in which "dishonesty" is purely code for his own feelings of being screwed by Brian)? Or is there an actual legitimate source that has suggested this?

Yes, folks, the pendulum has definitely swung too far and this is the kind of absurdity that comes as a consequence.

I lurked on this board off and on for some time before joining and posting and it's always seemed diverse in opinions.  There's no pendulum to be swung.

[anazgnos]

The point I was making was simply this: Unless you could have done a better job, in those days, with that family, under those circumstances, then you probably shouldn't be knocking anyone.

Call me crazy but once you're talking about the actions of a violent, unstable serial abuser, I think the rest of the world pretty much gets carte blanche to knock that guy as much as they want, no matter how much "those were different times" handwaving or equivocation anyone wants to throw at it.

[JanBerryFarm]

The point I was making was simply this: Unless you could have done a better job, in those days, with that family, under those circumstances, then you probably shouldn't be knocking anyone.

Call me crazy but once you're talking about the actions of a violent, unstable serial abuser, I think the rest of the world pretty much gets carte blanche to knock that guy as much as they want, no matter how much "those were different times" handwaving or equivocation anyone wants to throw at it.

ok, you're crazy. Sorry, knocking works both way. Specially for serial knockers.

[Wirestone]

For all the nonsensical talk of his dishonesty in business dealing, Brian has never been shy about acknowledging Mike's contributions to these songs. He's always credited him with writing the words to California Girls, and he admitted it outright when questioned in court. Brian has never struck me as being particularly sophisticated about songwriting credits.

[Mike's Beard]

The point I was making was simply this: Unless you could have done a better job, in those days, with that family, under those circumstances, then you probably shouldn't be knocking anyone.

Call me crazy but once you're talking about the actions of a violent, unstable serial abuser, I think the rest of the world pretty much gets carte blanche to knock that guy as much as they want, no matter how much "those were different times" handwaving or equivocation anyone wants to throw at it.

Well put. There's no justification for beating the sh** out of your children the way Murry did to his sons.

[Dunderhead]

It's so sad how everyone fought over Brian like a piece of meat. Everyone wanted him for their own agenda, and they saw his talent as just a tool to be controlled or possessed.
When you add in Brian's need for approval it becomes a sort of psychological nightmare. Here's this guy who desperately just wants to be understood and loved on his own terms at the center of a thousand different ego trips. On one hand it probably seemed like everything he ever hoped for, but on the other it was a hard lesson about trust taught over and and over again.

[Cam Mott]

I believe it's long been determined that Murry did the screwing. So he would be a good one to talk about dishonesty.

As far as I know it has only been alleged but with no monetary motive. Brian however had monetary motive and opportunity and an alleged history of dishonesty in business dealings.

Murry was a half owner in Sea of Tunes and later wrestled all the publishing from Brian. He always wanted to keep it in the family. He had a monetary motive.

Furthermore, it was clearly Murry who had a personal grudge against Mike at this time, not Brian. And when you speak of Brian's "alleged history of dishonesty in business dealings" are you referencing the the dishonesty that Murry himself speaks of (in which "dishonesty" is purely code for his own feelings of being screwed by Brian)? Or is there an actual legitimate source that has suggested this?

Yes, folks, the pendulum has definitely swung too far and this is the kind of absurdity that comes as a consequence.

Yes, Murry seems to have a grudge. Murry had no monetary motive to leave people off of the songwriting publishing, it wouldn't enrich him because he was one of the publishers and not one of the songwriters. Whether there was one songwriter or a million songwriters it didn't change his publisher take it only diluted or increased the songwriter's take. Isn't that right? Brian was the Producer and a songwriter and allegedly [at the time] a publisher who alone would be enriched by leaving people off of the songwriting publishing and still also get his share for being the publisher but somehow we think it was Murry's fault names were left off the publishing.

Well I said alleged but actual it was admitted by Brian and pr oven in court.  Who knows what really happened except that Mike got screwed and Brian doesn't always have to be the victim he could be the victimizer. The pendulum swung too far a long time ago but is finally coming back toward center lately.

[KittyKat]

I believe it's long been determined that Murry did the screwing. So he would be a good one to talk about dishonesty.

As far as I know it has only been alleged but with no monetary motive. Brian however had monetary motive and opportunity and an alleged history of dishonesty in business dealings.

Murry was a half owner in Sea of Tunes and later wrestled all the publishing from Brian. He always wanted to keep it in the family. He had a monetary motive.

Furthermore, it was clearly Murry who had a personal grudge against Mike at this time, not Brian. And when you speak of Brian's "alleged history of dishonesty in business dealings" are you referencing the the dishonesty that Murry himself speaks of (in which "dishonesty" is purely code for his own feelings of being screwed by Brian)? Or is there an actual legitimate source that has suggested this?

Yes, folks, the pendulum has definitely swung too far and this is the kind of absurdity that comes as a consequence.

Yes, Murry seems to have a grudge. Murry had no monetary motive to leave people off of the songwriting publishing, it wouldn't enrich him because he was one of the publishers and not one of the songwriters. Whether there was one songwriter or a million songwriters it didn't change his publisher take it only diluted or increased the songwriter's take. Isn't that right? Brian was the Producer and a songwriter and allegedly [at the time] a publisher who alone would be enriched by leaving people off of the songwriting publishing and still also get his share for being the publisher but somehow we think it was Murry's fault names were left off the publishing.

Well I said alleged but actual it was admitted by Brian and pr oven in court.  Who knows what really happened except that Mike got screwed and Brian doesn't always have to be the victim he could be the victimizer. The pendulum swung too far a long time ago but is finally coming back toward center lately.

Brian admitted in court that he purposefully left Mike's name off certain songs?  I've never read a transcript of the trial and don't remember anything else I've read.  Murry didn't seem to like Mike and I recall reading in some book that he fired Mike but the band ignored it.  Brian did give Mike credit for some major songs so it's not certain why he'd credit him for some but not others. 

[Cam Mott]

He admitted Mike was left off and there were eyewitnesses to Mike's authorship.

I suppose we may never know exactly who did what or why but Brian is the only one of the two[Murry and Brian] who knew who deserved songwriting credit because he was the only co-writer of the two and had a conflict of interest in that reporting that authorship and the only one who profited from that conflict of interest and excluding Mike from the songwriting  so I'm just saying.....

[JanBerryFarm]

I believe it's long been determined that Murry did the screwing. So he would be a good one to talk about dishonesty.

As far as I know it has only been alleged but with no monetary motive. Brian however had monetary motive and opportunity and an alleged history of dishonesty in business dealings.

Murry was a half owner in Sea of Tunes and later wrestled all the publishing from Brian. He always wanted to keep it in the family. He had a monetary motive.

Furthermore, it was clearly Murry who had a personal grudge against Mike at this time, not Brian. And when you speak of Brian's "alleged history of dishonesty in business dealings" are you referencing the the dishonesty that Murry himself speaks of (in which "dishonesty" is purely code for his own feelings of being screwed by Brian)? Or is there an actual legitimate source that has suggested this?

Yes, folks, the pendulum has definitely swung too far and this is the kind of absurdity that comes as a consequence.

Brian admitted in court that he purposefully left Mike's name off certain songs?  I've never read a transcript of the trial and don't remember anything else I've read.  Murry didn't seem to like Mike and I recall reading in some book that he fired Mike but the band ignored it.  Brian did give Mike credit for some major songs so it's not certain why he'd credit him for some but not others. 

Shame on Brian for trying to cheat his cousin Mike.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

I believe it's long been determined that Murry did the screwing. So he would be a good one to talk about dishonesty.

As far as I know it has only been alleged but with no monetary motive. Brian however had monetary motive and opportunity and an alleged history of dishonesty in business dealings.

Murry was a half owner in Sea of Tunes and later wrestled all the publishing from Brian. He always wanted to keep it in the family. He had a monetary motive.

Furthermore, it was clearly Murry who had a personal grudge against Mike at this time, not Brian. And when you speak of Brian's "alleged history of dishonesty in business dealings" are you referencing the the dishonesty that Murry himself speaks of (in which "dishonesty" is purely code for his own feelings of being screwed by Brian)? Or is there an actual legitimate source that has suggested this?

Yes, folks, the pendulum has definitely swung too far and this is the kind of absurdity that comes as a consequence.

Brian admitted in court that he purposefully left Mike's name off certain songs?  I've never read a transcript of the trial and don't remember anything else I've read.  Murry didn't seem to like Mike and I recall reading in some book that he fired Mike but the band ignored it.  Brian did give Mike credit for some major songs so it's not certain why he'd credit him for some but not others. 

Shame on Brian for trying to cheat his cousin Mike.

Oh my God. There's no proof of this nor has anyone in a position to know suggested such a thing as far as I know.

[Day Tripper]

 I posted the info on the letter when it first came out. My friend who works at Hard Rock memorabilia told me about it and that he was going to post it to their web site. They have access to all kinds of cool stuff that is just sitting in boxes in a warehouse. Back then he told me they had one of Murry's Last Will and Testament, and that it was pretty crazy. I've been wanting to see that, but he never got around to posting it.

He gave me and my wife a tour of the John Lennon room at Hard Rock that is not accessible to the general public. I felt like a kid in a candy store. One of Lennon's white pianos is there with autographs on all the white keys, and Brian Wilson's autograph was on it.