New Beach Boys 2012 Remasters!

[DonnyL]

Well, as the "fan mixer" that was referred to (I do produce & engineer professionally, btw.. the Beach Boys stuff I do is for fun, altho I'd love to have a go at the actual digitally transferred masters! who wouldn't?), of course I wouldn't want to touch the actual reel to reel tapes, being that I have absolutely no experience dealing with reel to reels, as much as I love the sound and try to emulate it digitally.

 But, hypothetically speaking, I possibly could've saved a few errors from making it to disc if I had been consulted, as could a lot of other people here apparently. Such as the distortion on a lot of tracks, and what sounds like overdone de-essing on a lot of the vocal tracks on Summer Days & Today. Stuff like the off timed edits on Little Pad (which very well may have been an artistic decision on Mark's part, and doesn't bother me at all now. think White Album mono/stereo).

 It's whatever though, 99.9% of Mark's mixes are awesome and what's done is done. I'm currently digging the stereo Smiley, big time. And the problems in the discs could easily be attributed to mastering. I recently witnessed a friend of mine spend $30K to record his album in an all analog studio, only to have the sound completely ruined in the mastering process. So this stuff happens.

well, Mark runs a studio and can handle everything in-house, including making great mixes and having a background as Brian Wilson's own engineer for what, 25 years or so?

sorry man ... these are the kind of comments that would keep me away if I were Mark.  Without consulting the actual master tapes, it really doesn't make sense to say things like 'sounds like overdone de-essing' ... and how do you know the source of the supposed distortion has anything to do with mixing choices?

so many things to consider here ... what if Mark was mixing in real-time, to stay true to a '60s method, and got a great, emotionally powerful mix that had a little unwanted distortion here and there? and then he did another one, but couldn't replicate the feel? what if he presented both to Brian, and Brian preferred the one with distortion?

really, I'm making this stuff up ... but so many things we don't know about. and we won't know about because Mark isn't going to post here to tell us about it.

[seltaeb1012002]

Well, as the "fan mixer" that was referred to (I do produce & engineer professionally, btw.. the Beach Boys stuff I do is for fun, altho I'd love to have a go at the actual digitally transferred masters! who wouldn't?), of course I wouldn't want to touch the actual reel to reel tapes, being that I have absolutely no experience dealing with reel to reels, as much as I love the sound and try to emulate it digitally.

 But, hypothetically speaking, I possibly could've saved a few errors from making it to disc if I had been consulted, as could a lot of other people here apparently. Such as the distortion on a lot of tracks, and what sounds like overdone de-essing on a lot of the vocal tracks on Summer Days & Today. Stuff like the off timed edits on Little Pad (which very well may have been an artistic decision on Mark's part, and doesn't bother me at all now. think White Album mono/stereo).

 It's whatever though, 99.9% of Mark's mixes are awesome and what's done is done. I'm currently digging the stereo Smiley, big time. And the problems in the discs could easily be attributed to mastering. I recently witnessed a friend of mine spend $30K to record his album in an all analog studio, only to have the sound completely ruined in the mastering process. So this stuff happens.

well, Mark runs a studio and can handle everything in-house, including making great mixes and having a background as Brian Wilson's own engineer for what, 25 years or so?

your mixes are cool, but sorry man ... these are the kind of comments that would keep me away if I were Mark.  Without consulting the actual master tapes, it really doesn't make sense to say things like 'sounds like overdone de-essing' ... and how do you know the source of the supposed distortion has anything to do with mixing choices?

so many things to consider here ... what if Mark was mixing in real-time, to stay true to a '60s method, and got a great, emotionally powerful mix that had a little unwanted distortion here and there? and then he did another one, but couldn't replicate the feel? what if he presented both to Brian, and Brian preferred the one with distortion?

really, I'm making this stuff up ... but so many things we don't know about. and we won't know about because Mark isn't going to post here to tell us about it.

 Great points. I wouldn't have even said anything if I wasn't brought into it (although honestly I know it wasn't personal and I kinda brought myself into it for the sake of discussion) but it's not like I'm the first to point out the sound quality issues. I highly doubt the scenario you mentioned regarding the distortion, since these are digital mixes we're talking about. Judging by how the tapes sound on SOT, it could've been cleaner and you'd think someone would catch the issues before it hit CD, but I and everyone that notices the sound quality issues should be willing to buy that maybe the tapes have deteriorated to this point and that's that. As far as Mark's creative decisions (panning, balance, EQ, verbs, etc), I'm not knocking the guy at all. I have a ton of respect for the dude, and I'm sure we all do. His stereo mix of Pet Sounds is one of my favorite mixes of all time, period.

 Just to be clear, I'm not trying to say that I could've done a better job with the tapes. However, there were some oversights on The Smile Sessions box set that could lead people to question things. Which again, could've easily been issues that arose during the mastering phase. An extra ear is always good (post mastering, pre CD is what I meant) but I'm saying this within the context of a message board. Not trying to offend anyone that's directly involved, and I apologize if I have. Wasn't my intent.

 At the end of the day, most of this stuff sounds great, so let's enjoy.

[PhilCohen]

Let's face this reality: The Beach Boys are as likely to oust Mark Linett as remix engineer as the surviving members of The Who are likely to oust Jon Astley as remix engineer....which means there's no chance whatsoever, no matter what musical mistakes or audio glitches are heard in these groups' archival projects.

[puni puni]

So glad I have Centipede Hz to distract me while I painfully patiently wait for these albums to get ripped already arrive in my mailbox.

[Jim V.]

Let's face this reality: The Beach Boys are as likely to oust Mark Linett as remix engineer as the surviving members of The Who are likely to oust Jon Astley as remix engineer....which means there's no chance whatsoever, no matter what musical mistakes or audio glitches are heard in these groups' archival projects.

Phil, do you EVER sit back and just enjoy the music? Seriously...

[PhilCohen]

Let's face this reality: The Beach Boys are as likely to oust Mark Linett as remix engineer as the surviving members of The Who are likely to oust Jon Astley as remix engineer....which means there's no chance whatsoever, no matter what musical mistakes or audio glitches are heard in these groups' archival projects.

Phil, do you EVER sit back and just enjoy the music? Seriously...

All I'm saying is that there's little (or anything) to gain by complaining about Mark Linett. He doesn't participate in or read the forum, and Brian Wilson, The Beach Boys or their managers have selected Mr.Linett for the job. He's entrenched in his job. End of story.

[The Real Barnyard]

You can take a look at an article in our site The Beach Boys Spain, where you can see what songs in mono or stereo will be new in the Remasters.
Although it is written in spanish, I think it can be useful.

http://thebeachboysspain.com/index.php/noticias/37-noticias/285-los-beach-boys-anuncian-la-publicacion-de-dos-nuevas-recopilaciones-de-exitos-y-la-remasterizacion-de-12-albumes-en-estudio

[Ebb and Flow]

Does a doubled lead vocal hard-panned left and right drive anyone else up a f***ing wall when listening with headphones? It's just... erm, very distracting. Not a fan of the technique.

Why do the vocals have to be either hard panned or folded down?  Surely there's some middle-ground?  It's not the 60's...subtle, modern mixes can and should be made.

Much of the tracks from Summer Days Linnet has mixed have stereo vocals with subtle separation.  The songs where the vocals were recorded on 8-track (Salt Lake City, Let Him Run Wild and You're So Good To Me) sound great and full of life in comparison to some of the lifeless, digital reverb-drenched remixes that have been prepared for Today!.  Obviously with seven tracks of vocals you have more to work with, but there's no reason why that subtle mixing approach can't be applied to music that was recorded literally months before.  My two cents.

some of the 3-track master have 1-vocals, 2-vocals, 3-track. in the '60s, they had LEFT-CENTER-RIGHT options, so that's why some of those mixes were done that way. Even today, if you just have the 3-track, there's not a whole lot you can do for anything resembling wide stereo. you could do something like track at 10 o'clock, vocal 1-middle, vocal 2-right and mess with the reverb pan ... but it's gonna sound kind of weird.

Today! was recorded on four track (and many songs had a 2nd stage overdub).  So the songs on the album at the very least have two tracks of instrumentals and two tracks of vocals to work with.  Again, not an ideal amount of tracks for a wide stereo mix, but the idea that half of the vocals on the album must be dead center with no separation at all...don't agree.  To me it seems like a missed opportunity to add depth and clarity to an album that has always sounded muddy and distant to me.

[DonnyL]

Does a doubled lead vocal hard-panned left and right drive anyone else up a f***ing wall when listening with headphones? It's just... erm, very distracting. Not a fan of the technique.

Why do the vocals have to be either hard panned or folded down?  Surely there's some middle-ground?  It's not the 60's...subtle, modern mixes can and should be made.

Much of the tracks from Summer Days Linnet has mixed have stereo vocals with subtle separation.  The songs where the vocals were recorded on 8-track (Salt Lake City, Let Him Run Wild and You're So Good To Me) sound great and full of life in comparison to some of the lifeless, digital reverb-drenched remixes that have been prepared for Today!.  Obviously with seven tracks of vocals you have more to work with, but there's no reason why that subtle mixing approach can't be applied to music that was recorded literally months before.  My two cents.

some of the 3-track master have 1-vocals, 2-vocals, 3-track. in the '60s, they had LEFT-CENTER-RIGHT options, so that's why some of those mixes were done that way. Even today, if you just have the 3-track, there's not a whole lot you can do for anything resembling wide stereo. you could do something like track at 10 o'clock, vocal 1-middle, vocal 2-right and mess with the reverb pan ... but it's gonna sound kind of weird.

Today! was recorded on four track (and many songs had a 2nd stage overdub).  So the songs on the album at the very least have two tracks of instrumentals and two tracks of vocals to work with.  Again, not an ideal amount of tracks for a wide stereo mix, but the idea that half of the vocals on the album must be dead center with no separation at all...don't agree.  To me it seems like a missed opportunity to add depth and clarity to an album that has always sounded muddy and distant to me.

I believe some of those masters are on 3-track. Also, this depends on what earlier pre-reduction masters are currently available -- certainly, not all tapes are.

I was actually referring to the earlier recordings anyway, 63-64 stuff (the obvious 3-track mixes w/ track center, 2 tracks of vocals hard-panned). I said "Even today ..." as in "Even in the current era".

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

Does a doubled lead vocal hard-panned left and right drive anyone else up a f***ing wall when listening with headphones? It's just... erm, very distracting. Not a fan of the technique.

Why do the vocals have to be either hard panned or folded down?  Surely there's some middle-ground?  It's not the 60's...subtle, modern mixes can and should be made.

Much of the tracks from Summer Days Linnet has mixed have stereo vocals with subtle separation.  The songs where the vocals were recorded on 8-track (Salt Lake City, Let Him Run Wild and You're So Good To Me) sound great and full of life in comparison to some of the lifeless, digital reverb-drenched remixes that have been prepared for Today!.  Obviously with seven tracks of vocals you have more to work with, but there's no reason why that subtle mixing approach can't be applied to music that was recorded literally months before.  My two cents.

some of the 3-track master have 1-vocals, 2-vocals, 3-track. in the '60s, they had LEFT-CENTER-RIGHT options, so that's why some of those mixes were done that way. Even today, if you just have the 3-track, there's not a whole lot you can do for anything resembling wide stereo. you could do something like track at 10 o'clock, vocal 1-middle, vocal 2-right and mess with the reverb pan ... but it's gonna sound kind of weird.

Today! was recorded on four track (and many songs had a 2nd stage overdub).  So the songs on the album at the very least have two tracks of instrumentals and two tracks of vocals to work with.  Again, not an ideal amount of tracks for a wide stereo mix, but the idea that half of the vocals on the album must be dead center with no separation at all...don't agree.  To me it seems like a missed opportunity to add depth and clarity to an album that has always sounded muddy and distant to me.

I believe some of those masters are on 3-track. Also, this depends on what earlier pre-reduction masters are currently available -- certainly, not all tapes are.

I was actually referring to the earlier recordings anyway, 63-64 stuff (the obvious 3-track mixes w/ track center, 2 tracks of vocals hard-panned). I said "Even today ..." as in "Even in the current era".

Today does still have some stuff on 3-track, and even when on 4-track I think there was some internal bouncing for vocals leaving the track mono only.  C-man's excellent sessionography of this album would be the place to check for that sort of thing.  But I have no idea what the current status of the tape is without checking, which I'm not able to do at the moment.  But there are severe limitations and heartbreaking empty boxes and that sort of thing.

[Mikie]

I'll betcha all that tape bouncing is what caused the muddiness on the Today album mix. I've thought that for years. To me, the other mono albums are superior in sound quality to that one.  I remember buying an import vinyl album (I think MFP and probably virgin vinyl) back in the 70's and it was MUCH better than the U.S pressings as far as sound quality. Very noticable. Still muddy, but much better.

[DonnyL]

I'll betcha all that tape bouncing is what caused the muddiness on the Today album mix. I've thought that for years. To me, the other mono albums are superior in sound quality to that one.  I remember buying an import vinyl album (I think MFP and probably virgin vinyl) back in the 70's and it was MUCH better than the U.S pressings as far as sound quality. Very noticable. Still muddy, but much better.

I think you're right, but man do I love the sound of that record. The original 'muddy' mix has a lot of depth & punch.

[DonnyL]

Does a doubled lead vocal hard-panned left and right drive anyone else up a f***ing wall when listening with headphones? It's just... erm, very distracting. Not a fan of the technique.

Why do the vocals have to be either hard panned or folded down?  Surely there's some middle-ground?  It's not the 60's...subtle, modern mixes can and should be made.

Much of the tracks from Summer Days Linnet has mixed have stereo vocals with subtle separation.  The songs where the vocals were recorded on 8-track (Salt Lake City, Let Him Run Wild and You're So Good To Me) sound great and full of life in comparison to some of the lifeless, digital reverb-drenched remixes that have been prepared for Today!.  Obviously with seven tracks of vocals you have more to work with, but there's no reason why that subtle mixing approach can't be applied to music that was recorded literally months before.  My two cents.

some of the 3-track master have 1-vocals, 2-vocals, 3-track. in the '60s, they had LEFT-CENTER-RIGHT options, so that's why some of those mixes were done that way. Even today, if you just have the 3-track, there's not a whole lot you can do for anything resembling wide stereo. you could do something like track at 10 o'clock, vocal 1-middle, vocal 2-right and mess with the reverb pan ... but it's gonna sound kind of weird.

Today! was recorded on four track (and many songs had a 2nd stage overdub).  So the songs on the album at the very least have two tracks of instrumentals and two tracks of vocals to work with.  Again, not an ideal amount of tracks for a wide stereo mix, but the idea that half of the vocals on the album must be dead center with no separation at all...don't agree.  To me it seems like a missed opportunity to add depth and clarity to an album that has always sounded muddy and distant to me.

I believe some of those masters are on 3-track. Also, this depends on what earlier pre-reduction masters are currently available -- certainly, not all tapes are.

I was actually referring to the earlier recordings anyway, 63-64 stuff (the obvious 3-track mixes w/ track center, 2 tracks of vocals hard-panned). I said "Even today ..." as in "Even in the current era".

Today does still have some stuff on 3-track, and even when on 4-track I think there was some internal bouncing for vocals leaving the track mono only.  C-man's excellent sessionography of this album would be the place to check for that sort of thing.  But I have no idea what the current status of the tape is without checking, which I'm not able to do at the moment.  But there are severe limitations and heartbreaking empty boxes and that sort of thing.

thanks for the info. sounds like 3-track style stuff to me on some of 'em.

empty boxes! sort of like that erased over 'little girl i once knew' master? funny, they really were working toward that 1/4" mono ... once they had that -- DONE!

[Zach95]

I said this earlier, and I really think the new mono Today! mix is clearer and sharper than the original, muddy mix I've come to be familiar with. Again, I'll ask, does anyone else recognize this?

[EgoHanger1966]

I said this earlier, and I really think the new mono Today! mix is clearer and sharper than the original, muddy mix I've come to be familiar with. Again, I'll ask, does anyone else recognize this?

I think it sounds really good too, better than the twofer for sure. With one exception - something is wrong with the mono Please Let Me Wonder. It sounds like it was transferred with a stereo head and not summed to mono - there is the illusion of different frequencies in each channel, much like a rechanelled recording.

[DonnyL]

I said this earlier, and I really think the new mono Today! mix is clearer and sharper than the original, muddy mix I've come to be familiar with. Again, I'll ask, does anyone else recognize this?

haven't heard it yet, but I don't doubt it. Mastering trends lean toward the bright side these days ... the darker masters of the past are partially a result of LP limitations.

[Aegir]

man, I wish I had the money to buy any of these discs.

[Zach95]

I said this earlier, and I really think the new mono Today! mix is clearer and sharper than the original, muddy mix I've come to be familiar with. Again, I'll ask, does anyone else recognize this?

I think it sounds really good too, better than the twofer for sure. With one exception - something is wrong with the mono Please Let Me Wonder. It sounds like it was transferred with a stereo head and not summed to mono - there is the illusion of different frequencies in each channel, much like a rechanelled recording.

Good stuff. I wanted to make sure I wasn't losing it. Because I was really impressed with the mono mix.

[tansen]

Has anyone compared the Japanese mono masters of Today and Summer Days!! With the old (flat transfer) Japanese 'Pastmasters' issues?

[chris.metcalfe]

Er, going back to the remasters, I notice that the Amazon.co.uk release date is 24th August (this Friday) and the price for all CDs except Smiley Smile is listed at £18.91 (approximately $29.80). Can this be correct? If so, it kind of refutes the suggestion made here earlier that the price would drop by release date.

Smiley Smile - £9.99 !

BTW, looking at that exchange rate I might pop over to the USA again soon...

[The Shift]

I hope this is an error – a Friday release date is highly suspect, as is the pricing. I've ordered them all in anticipation of a Sept 24 release date, a price drop (like the Smiley disc) and also in anticipation of payday. If they ship earlier I'll be broke!  

Suspect though that the date is an error input when amending the SS disc price.  But thanks for the heads up – I'll monitor this closely all week and cancel if necessary.

[PhilCohen]

By the way, for those who are interested, the Japanese release of the 50-song hits package will add a 51st song("Be True to Your School") and special packaging. It is being offered for preorder by CD Japan.

[GoofyJeff]

By the way, for those who are interested, the Japanese release of the 50-song hits package will add a 51st song("Be True to Your School") and special packaging. It is being offered for preorder by CD Japan.

I always found it curious that BTTYS was being offered on the single disc GH release, but absent from 50 Big Ones.  Now I know why... to be held out as a "bonus track" for Japan.  LMAO.

[Custom Machine]

Actually back in the 1990's(when I was a compiler) the blank tape manufacturers who manufactured the defective tape conceded that they were to blame for the sticky tape situation, and they offered the baking services for free.

Phil, I remember reading your name numerous times, I think as both a reporter and compiler, in the old ICE mag.  Out of curiosity, what CD sets did you compile?

[FatherOfTheMan Sr101]

Er, going back to the remasters, I notice that the Amazon.co.uk release date is 24th August (this Friday) and the price for all CDs except Smiley Smile is listed at £18.91 (approximately $29.80). Can this be correct? If so, it kind of refutes the suggestion made here earlier that the price would drop by release date.

Smiley Smile - £9.99 !

BTW, looking at that exchange rate I might pop over to the USA again soon...

WTF is up with that!?!?! Why is the US date a month later?!