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Author Topic: The Peter Ames Carlin Thread  (Read 215435 times)
petsite
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« Reply #225 on: August 10, 2006, 08:53:17 PM »

It was recorded (or A version of it was recorded) at Lovesongs during the session for Skatetown (I've heard the version of Skatetown with just the backing vocals).

During the begining of Little Girl, Brian is telling Carl "Wait a minute". Then Brian gives the count and the track starts. Carl then adds his vocal. After the first verse, Carl says "That's it Jeff." The track rolls on for another 2 minutes until Brian yells "Carl....CARL!" and the track ends.

That's all I know, anyway.  That was Spring of '79. They may have gotten the idea to turn it in to Sunshine by the summer when Brian was at Western.

By the way, the melody at the begining, the "DUM DUM DUM BE DUM BE DO" was lifted from the old Corsairs doo wop hit  Smokey Places. I think that they had considered covering that tune and instead lifted the opening for Sunshine.
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maxfrost
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« Reply #226 on: August 10, 2006, 09:24:20 PM »

All this talk of the doctored "Carl & The Passions" photo got me to thinking.  Has anyone ever seen a picture of Brian with the Blondie and Ricky lineup?  Either promotional or otherwise?   I don't think I have ever come across one.
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« Reply #227 on: August 11, 2006, 01:25:20 AM »

No that would be cool though. Brian went on stage once in April 73 so if any photos were taken that day that's all I could think of where one may have been taken.
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« Reply #228 on: August 11, 2006, 02:32:32 AM »

I finally found a Dutch webstore that has it, so I ordered it today. Can't wait to read it.
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« Reply #229 on: August 11, 2006, 04:52:58 AM »

All this talk of the doctored "Carl & The Passions" photo got me to thinking.  Has anyone ever seen a picture of Brian with the Blondie and Ricky lineup?  Either promotional or otherwise?   I don't think I have ever come across one.

The Leaf book has a photo of Brian and Carl jamming onstage with The Flame.  You can see Blondie in the photo.  I think that's the closest I've ever seen. 
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« Reply #230 on: August 11, 2006, 09:33:38 AM »

I have a photo of Brian, Blondie and Ricky together...in fact I took the photo myself. However, it's from 2000. They were all at the CWF event in Malibu that year. I'll dig around and post it when I find them.
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« Reply #231 on: August 11, 2006, 10:23:32 AM »

Oh yeah I even asked people when it was taken on here. I think it was th 2-70 tour not an L.A. club.
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« Reply #232 on: August 11, 2006, 10:33:17 AM »

I think I was told by someone (Alan Boyd? Steve Desper?) that "Sunshine" began at Western, perhaps as a cover of another song. Maybe the basic track was done there? Now I'm away from my notes and I can't remember precisely. But that's what I remember. And obviously what ended up in the book.

"Sunshine" came from "Little Girl", a Phil Spector song that Brian recorded at Western in July '79.
I think there may have been an earlier version, from Lovesongs Studio (Mike's place), but the
version used as the basic for "Sunshine" is from Western.  I remember Bruce saying they took
a section of the "Little Girl" track, copied it several times, and spliced all the copied sections
together to make a full track, then overdubbe on top of it.

I neglected to mention that the 7/79 sessions at Western were done to 4-track...so when part of "Little Girl" was copied to use as the basis for "Sunshine", it was also transferred to 24-track.  Why were they still cutting to 4-track this late in the game?  Obviously to get Brian back in the same "feel" production-wise as he was in his glory days.  And obviously it didn't work.

Craig
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« Reply #233 on: August 11, 2006, 01:47:06 PM »

i got my copy of the book a couple of days ago. i have enjoyed flipping thru it reading about certain events. the book does a great job either filling in holes from other books or backing up claims from those books. i will start actually reading it this weekend.

not to sound picky but i don't think alan had a beard at the 1971 feb carnegie show. i believe he started growing it around june of that year.

and "let's go to heaven in my car" was in police academy 4 not 3.

but i really think i am going to enjoy this book very much. thank you for all your efforts!
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Andrew G. Doe
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« Reply #234 on: August 11, 2006, 04:28:22 PM »

I think I was told by someone (Alan Boyd? Steve Desper?) that "Sunshine" began at Western, perhaps as a cover of another song. Maybe the basic track was done there? Now I'm away from my notes and I can't remember precisely. But that's what I remember. And obviously what ended up in the book.

"Sunshine" came from "Little Girl", a Phil Spector song that Brian recorded at Western in July '79.
I think there may have been an earlier version, from Lovesongs Studio (Mike's place), but the
version used as the basic for "Sunshine" is from Western.  I remember Bruce saying they took
a section of the "Little Girl" track, copied it several times, and spliced all the copied sections
together to make a full track, then overdubbe on top of it.

I neglected to mention that the 7/79 sessions at Western were done to 4-track...so when part of "Little Girl" was copied to use as the basis for "Sunshine", it was also transferred to 24-track.  Why were they still cutting to 4-track this late in the game?  Obviously to get Brian back in the same "feel" production-wise as he was in his glory days.  And obviously it didn't work.

Craig

For the Western sessions, they dug out an old valve 4-track console, got Chuck Britz to run it and got as many of the old session hands as they could. Yes, it was a ploy to try and make Brian feel comfortable, and therefore productive. No, it didn't really work. One other interesting point: while Brian was in the booth, they ran a 2-track to capture what he was saying, allegedly because it was thought highly possible that this would be the last time Brian ran a BB session.
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« Reply #235 on: August 11, 2006, 05:00:23 PM »

For the Western sessions, they dug out an old valve 4-track console, got Chuck Britz to run it and got as many of the old session hands as they could. Yes, it was a ploy to try and make Brian feel comfortable, and therefore productive. No, it didn't really work. One other interesting point: while Brian was in the booth, they ran a 2-track to capture what he was saying, allegedly because it was thought highly possible that this would be the last time Brian ran a BB session.

I've read this account before, and it still perplexes me.

With Chuck Britz engineering, some of The Wrecking Crew participating, Brian Wilson producing, and The Beach Boys singing, I wonder why these sessions were unsuccessful? It looked like a formula for success (now somebody has to mention 15 Big Ones). Was it the material, performance, or both? Also, weren't these the sessions where Carl Wilson was quoted as saying that Brian was "singing like a bird" for a couple of days?

Also, in 1980, Brian Wilson was only 38 years old, and the group wasn't too far removed from the Endless Summer/Brian Is Back campaign. When it is mentioned that these sessions were being recorded/documented as possibly Brian's last as producer for the group, were they really thinking about writing off the poor guy - or the band?
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« Reply #236 on: August 11, 2006, 05:14:18 PM »

I think it's mostly twofold:  Brian, though only 38, was obviously "not well"...and, the material
was apparently all covers.  I'm sure the hope was that this would be a warm-up to him producing some great new material, but with his problems, he probably just couldn't focus.

Andrew, I was just thinking about the 2-track session tape today...and wondering if Alan's come across it...
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« Reply #237 on: August 11, 2006, 08:50:29 PM »

Quote
With Chuck Britz engineering, some of The Wrecking Crew participating, Brian Wilson producing, and The Beach Boys singing, I wonder why these sessions were unsuccessful? It looked like a formula for success (now somebody has to mention 15 Big Ones). Was it the material, performance, or both? Also, weren't these the sessions where Carl Wilson was quoted as saying that Brian was "singing like a bird" for a couple of days?

Also, in 1980, Brian Wilson was only 38 years old, and the group wasn't too far removed from the Endless Summer/Brian Is Back campaign. When it is mentioned that these sessions were being recorded/documented as possibly Brian's last as producer for the group, were they really thinking about writing off the poor guy - or the band?

Brian was in a downward spiral that would almost take his life numerous times during the next 3 years. Also, he had no real interest in producing and writing for the group. Stan Love said of Brian at this time that "The group was mad at Brian and he was mad at them." And Steve Desper told Leaf that Brian was "tolerated" at the KTSA sessions, but not looked to for leadership. They really did think that their judgement was superior to his. And with Brian in the shape he was in, they were right. But, they should have been looking at how to help him. The fact that almost 3 years went by before help was finally engaged to help Brian speaks volumes in and of itself.
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« Reply #238 on: August 12, 2006, 12:09:38 AM »

The '79 Western sessions came about because, given the relatively dismal showing of the 1st Caribou LP, CBS pretty much told the band "next time - more Brian !", so evidently someone came up with the idea of old studio/board/engineer/musicians. Wasn't Brian's idea.

As for the 2-track, I'd be surprised if Steve Desper doesn't have a copy. I'd also be surprised if it was anything other than difficult listening.
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Andrew G. Doe
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« Reply #239 on: August 12, 2006, 12:12:29 AM »

For the Western sessions, they dug out an old valve 4-track console, got Chuck Britz to run it and got as many of the old session hands as they could. Yes, it was a ploy to try and make Brian feel comfortable, and therefore productive. No, it didn't really work. One other interesting point: while Brian was in the booth, they ran a 2-track to capture what he was saying, allegedly because it was thought highly possible that this would be the last time Brian ran a BB session.

I've read this account before, and it still perplexes me.

With Chuck Britz engineering, some of The Wrecking Crew participating, Brian Wilson producing, and The Beach Boys singing, I wonder why these sessions were unsuccessful? It looked like a formula for success (now somebody has to mention 15 Big Ones). Was it the material, performance, or both?

Because it was 1979 and not 1963-4-5. Bit like the reunion specials of much loved TV shows.
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« Reply #240 on: August 12, 2006, 12:46:31 AM »

I just finished reading the book (I think; I usually have the bad habit of picking a spot in the middle, or this case near the end, of a book and reading to the end and then going back to the beginning and starting fresh), and it's quite enjoyable. I have the usual nitpicks that any obsessive fan/student of the band would have, but I'll save those.

I have one question that I hope Peter Ames Carlin can comment on: You mention in passing in the book that there was attempt to oust Al from the band all the way back in 1990. Can you elaborate on this at all, and/or talk about who or where this information came from? I've heard that the relationship between Mike and Al may have been strained as early as the late 80's, and there are of course the rather vague stories of Al being "suspended" or at least not participating in the "Summer in Paradise" sessions a few years later in 1992, but I've never heard of this attempted ousting of Al back in 1990. Your wording in the book seems to suggest Carl prevented this from happening, but I'm just curious about any details surrounding this, as it is mentioned so briefly in passing in the book.

Curiously, there was a short string of Beach Boys shows during 1990 that Mike missed when he toured in Japan with one of his side bands, the first and probably last time he missed any BB shows apart from the short stint in 1970. Al took over handling Mike's leads during this short strings of shows in May-June 1990. Curiously, there exists a recording of a show from June 2, 1990 in Barrie, Ontario where Mike is absent and Al handles Mike's leads. Then, a recording from only four days later, June 6, 1990 in Tennessee, features Mike back with the band, but Al is absent! During the show, somebody asks where Al is, and Mike (seemingly jokingly) simply states that Al is on "sabbatical", whatever that means. I wonder if this string of events has anything to do with what you mention in the book occuring in 1990.
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« Reply #241 on: August 12, 2006, 03:22:57 AM »

I think Brian did some of those Mikeless shows in 1990 am I correct?
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« Reply #242 on: August 12, 2006, 03:37:51 AM »

Curiously, there was a short string of Beach Boys shows during 1990 that Mike missed when he toured in Japan with one of his side bands, the first and probably last time he missed any BB shows apart from the short stint in 1970.

Don't forget his six-month sojurn at a TM center in Switzerland (Leysin ?) in 1977/8: he missed quite a few gigs then. The band's then manager (brother Steve ?) went loopy, as they'd just signed a new contract with CBS.
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« Reply #243 on: August 12, 2006, 08:13:35 AM »

Peter - just finished my initial browse of your book.  Great job!  Regarding the collapse of the 1995 Beach Boys project with Don Was, and Carl not liking the way "Soul Searchin'" turned out, I'm pretty sure that's because the Beach Boys vocals were added to a rather bland-sounding Don Was-produced backing track (that no one outside the group's inner circle and Cindy Lee Berryhill has actually heard).  Sometime later, Brian, Andy, and Mark L. went back to their original pre-Was track and "flew in" the Boys vocals from the Was version, creating the really kickin' production that leaked out as part of the "Wilson-Paley" bootlegs.  Carl reportedly never heard that version...if he had, I think he would've liked it a lot...I mean , how COULDN'T one not like it...it's just great, and I feel it really could've been a hit for them in 1996.

Craig
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« Reply #244 on: August 12, 2006, 08:53:09 AM »

Hey Hey: I heard about Al's 1990 ouster from some combination of insiders, now I can't remember who right now (Not meaning to be coy, but I wrote that stuff a year or more ago, the info is buried somewhere here in my archives), and also saw a few references to it in copies of business letters I have about Brian's participation in band projects in the late '80s and early '90s.

I was also aware that the "Soul Searchin'" from the bootleg wasn't the backing track they had sung to. I never heard the Was production, either. But Brian and I think someone else (Paley?) said Carl didn't like his vocal, or didn't like the songs, and Mike made it pretty clear to me that there wasn't a whole lot of enthusiasm in the BB's to be working on a Brian-dominated album. Whether that says more about external circumstances -- legal, business, whatever -- I dunno. But I find it astonishing, and all too predictable.
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« Reply #245 on: August 12, 2006, 09:34:35 AM »

"Curiously, there was a short string of Beach Boys shows during 1990 that Mike missed when he toured in Japan with one of his side bands, the first and probably last time he missed any BB shows apart from the short stint in 1970. "

Just out of interest, what's the fewest number of genuine BBs (and I include Bruce) to ever play a BB gig BEFORE it became the Mike and Bruce show? Two?


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« Reply #246 on: August 12, 2006, 10:00:31 AM »

If you include Bruce - and why not ? - I think it would be three: Carl, Alan & Bruce during one of Mike's 1990 absences, or Mike, Alan & Bruce during Carl's final illness, although that is open to question as David can be regarded as an original as well.
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« Reply #247 on: August 12, 2006, 10:43:02 AM »

If you include Bruce - and why not ? - I think it would be three: Carl, Alan & Bruce during one of Mike's 1990 absences, or Mike, Alan & Bruce during Carl's final illness, although that is open to question as David can be regarded as an original as well.

There were also some Mike/Al/Bruce shows earlier, such as some shows in 1981/1982 when Carl had left. There were occasionally shows where neither Dennis nor Brian were present. There was also a short string of shows, or at least one show, around September of 1990 that Carl missed because of an appendectomy (if I'm recalling correctly) which featured only a Mike/Al/Bruce lineup. Strange that in 1990 you could have seen a Mike/Al/Bruce/Carl show, or a Bruce/Al/Carl show, or a Mike/Bruce/Carl show, or a Mike/Al/Bruce show. The common theme seems to be that there always seemed to be an attempt to keep at least three "official" Beach Boys on stage. It always struck me as strange that other bands would usually cancel or postpone a show if one of the core members wasn't able to make it, but I guess doing 150-180 shows per year, every year, meant that occasional absences were unavoidable and tolerated.
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« Reply #248 on: August 12, 2006, 10:43:34 AM »

If you include Bruce - and why not ? - I think it would be three: Carl, Alan & Bruce during one of Mike's 1990 absences, or Mike, Alan & Bruce during Carl's final illness, although that is open to question as David can be regarded as an original as well.

Three does seem to be it, but earlier still...Mike, Alan & Bruce reportedly did some shows in early '82 without any of the Wilson Bros., and Carl, Alan & Bruce did at least one gig in '83 without Mike, Dennis & Brian.
As for the late '90s, in early '97, before Carl dropped out & David rejoined, Mike, Alan & Bruce played a few shows (including Finland) w/out Carl.  Come to think of it, they also did some Carl-less gigs here-and-there in '95 and '96.  
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« Reply #249 on: August 12, 2006, 10:45:20 AM »

Strange that in 1990 you could have seen a Mike/Al/Bruce/Carl show, or a Bruce/Al/Carl show, or a Mike/Bruce/Carl show, or a Mike/Al/Bruce show.

Or an Al-Bruce-Carl-Brian show.
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