The Genius of Mike Love

[Chocolate Shake Man]

There has definitely been a push to shift the public perception of Mike Love in the last year. The consequences of it can be seen on this board from time to time.

[drbeachboy]

I have worked since 1980. Now, ask me if I have made enough money after 32 years?

Yeah, but if you've made tens of millions, wouldn't you want to focus on doing what you love, even if that makes a little less money? For Mike, he loves huge audiences and tons of money, so it makes sense he'd march on.... Meanwhile it's clear that while Brian enjoys money, he's not quite as attached to it, or otherwise wouldn't have taken the chances he did with his career. I personally empathize with the latter more than the former.

Ugh, you're all just a bunch of Mike Loves, man.

You live your lifestyle by what you make. If I lived the way Mike & Brian live, I'd need to make millions too. You act like they live like we do. They don't!

[Chocolate Shake Man]

I have worked since 1980. Now, ask me if I have made enough money after 32 years?

Yeah, but if you've made tens of millions, wouldn't you want to focus on doing what you love, even if that makes a little less money? For Mike, he loves huge audiences and tons of money, so it makes sense he'd march on.... Meanwhile it's clear that while Brian enjoys money, he's not quite as attached to it, or otherwise wouldn't have taken the chances he did with his career. I personally empathize with the latter more than the former.

Ugh, you're all just a bunch of Mike Loves, man.

You live your lifestyle by what you make. If I lived the way Mike & Brian live, I'd need to make millions too. You act like they live like we do. They don't!

As Randy Newman said, "I've got a family to support. But surely that is no excuse."

[Mr. Cohen]

Yes, I think you are correct; you are overstating the case.  Much of the catalogue is Wilson-Love.

Roger Christian also wrote the lyrics for songs like "Little Old Lady From Pasadena", "Dead Man's Curve", and etc. If he had been given the opportunity, he could've done a lot more with Brian (and let's not forget "Surf City", written by Brian and Jan & Dean, without Mike), but of course there were various reasons for why Brian ended up working with Mike more. There was a quote by Marilyn which goes along the lines of: "I think the group couldn't understand why Brian got all this attention and they didn't. Well, anyone with half a brain knows why."

You live your lifestyle by what you make. If I lived the way Mike & Brian live, I'd need to make millions too. You act like they live like we do. They don't!

True, but the early hits had already ensured that Brian would be quite wealthy for the rest of his life. Somehow they've managed fine despite scoring only two big hits since the '60s ("Rock & Roll Music" and "Kokomo"). Taking a more artistic direction wouldn't have completely dropped the BBs off the face of the planet earth, anyway, like you seem to believe.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Yes, I think you are correct; you are overstating the case.  Much of the catalogue is Wilson-Love.

Define much. Love co-wrote with Brian sporadically until All Summer Long and then after Summer Days, the only albums that they worked together on in any significant way were Wild Honey and Keepin' The Summer Alive.

And I read where Jeff said Mike is an entertainer. He is that, as well as a great vocalist in my opinion.  It would be nice to see credit accorded where it is long overdue.   And, I think, it is.  

The whole band should be credited more.

[drbeachboy]

Yes, I think you are correct; you are overstating the case.  Much of the catalogue is Wilson-Love.

Roger Christian also wrote the lyrics for songs like "Little Old Lady From Pasadena", "Dead Man's Curve", and etc. If he given the opportunity, he could've done a lot more with Brian (and let's not forget "Surf City", written by Brian and Jan & Dean, without Mike), but of course there were various reasons for why Brian ended up working with Mike more. There was a quote by Marilyn which goes along the lines of: "I think the group couldn't understand why Brian got all this attention and they didn't. Well, anyone with half a brain knows why."

You live your lifestyle by what you make. If I lived the way Mike & Brian live, I'd need to make millions too. You act like they live like we do. They don't!

True, but the early hits had already ensured that Brian would be quite wealthy for the rest of his life. Somehow they've managed fine despite scoring only two big hits since the '60s ("Rock & Roll Music" and "Kokomo"). Taking a more artistic direction wouldn't have completely dropped the BBs off the face of the planet earth, anyway, like you seem to believe.

I never said no such thing. The only big seller from Smiley through Holland was In Concert. They were very artistic throughout that period and no one listened, but us. Over the last 20 years they have been playing smaller venues, so we know their fan base was shrinking. If more avarage fans are turned off by playing the more unfamilair material, then they lose even more audiences. You play what your audience pays to hear.

[drbeachboy]

I have worked since 1980. Now, ask me if I have made enough money after 32 years?

Yeah, but if you've made tens of millions, wouldn't you want to focus on doing what you love, even if that makes a little less money? For Mike, he loves huge audiences and tons of money, so it makes sense he'd march on.... Meanwhile it's clear that while Brian enjoys money, he's not quite as attached to it, or otherwise wouldn't have taken the chances he did with his career. I personally empathize with the latter more than the former.

Ugh, you're all just a bunch of Mike Loves, man.

You live your lifestyle by what you make. If I lived the way Mike & Brian live, I'd need to make millions too. You act like they live like we do. They don't!

As Randy Newman said, "I've got a family to support. But surely that is no excuse."

So, Mike and Brian are wrong, because they don't think like Randy Newman. Well, maybe they do. They did wait 20 years to make a new record. That new record is of much better artistic quality than their last one. Also, are you saying that Brian's hits have no artistic quality?

[Al Jardine: Pick Up Artist]

[Chocolate Shake Man]

I have worked since 1980. Now, ask me if I have made enough money after 32 years?

Yeah, but if you've made tens of millions, wouldn't you want to focus on doing what you love, even if that makes a little less money? For Mike, he loves huge audiences and tons of money, so it makes sense he'd march on.... Meanwhile it's clear that while Brian enjoys money, he's not quite as attached to it, or otherwise wouldn't have taken the chances he did with his career. I personally empathize with the latter more than the former.

Ugh, you're all just a bunch of Mike Loves, man.

You live your lifestyle by what you make. If I lived the way Mike & Brian live, I'd need to make millions too. You act like they live like we do. They don't!

As Randy Newman said, "I've got a family to support. But surely that is no excuse."

So, Mike and Brian are wrong, because they don't think like Randy Newman. Well, maybe they do. They did wait 20 years to make a new record. That new record is of much better artistic quality than their last one. Also, are you saying that Brian's hits have no artistic quality?

Wow, you're bursting records for most words put in someone else's mouth per capita. All of them false, incidentally.

[Mr. Cohen]

Also, are you saying that Brian's hits have no artistic quality?

Oh sure they do. But it represents a very short period of their recording career, and one definitely gets the sense that Brian feels like it's been done enough. Sure, play some of the early hits, but do we need the BBs to keep pretending like it's 1965 forever? I also believe that the BBs fall from grace in the late '60s was largely out of their control, and in many ways was a reaction to the square surfing image people like Mike had worked so hard to build up. That the BBs came back into favor had later little to do with Mike's efforts at the time, since I think he was writing about baby seals and Big Sur then. Endless Summer took off on its own accord (yes, I know, Mike thought of the title for that album...) as the haze of the '60s dissipated and cheese came back in (see: disco). Aside from "Kokomo" and "Rock & Roll", it's not like the nostalgia songs have been that big of hits - a few others were top 40s hits, but that's it.

When you listen to songs like "Good Timin'" and "California Feeling", both written around 1974, it's clear that Brian wasn't going to stay in his abstract phase forever, either. He's always had a fond love for '50s music. And those two songs, both done without Mike's involvement, show a classier path the BBs could've taken back to commercial relevance after Endless Summer. Of course, it was Brian that recorded Love You, which opens a whole 'nother bag of questions...

[Chocolate Shake Man]

I was with you until you started putting down disco and Love You. 

[Mr. Cohen]

No, I love Love You, but it wasn't a commercial album! So it kind of pokes a hole in my idea of Brian's songwriting leading back to commercial relevance. But I stand by the statement that disco was cheesy!

[drbeachboy]

I have worked since 1980. Now, ask me if I have made enough money after 32 years?

Yeah, but if you've made tens of millions, wouldn't you want to focus on doing what you love, even if that makes a little less money? For Mike, he loves huge audiences and tons of money, so it makes sense he'd march on.... Meanwhile it's clear that while Brian enjoys money, he's not quite as attached to it, or otherwise wouldn't have taken the chances he did with his career. I personally empathize with the latter more than the former.

Ugh, you're all just a bunch of Mike Loves, man.

You live your lifestyle by what you make. If I lived the way Mike & Brian live, I'd need to make millions too. You act like they live like we do. They don't!

As Randy Newman said, "I've got a family to support. But surely that is no excuse."

So, Mike and Brian are wrong, because they don't think like Randy Newman. Well, maybe they do. They did wait 20 years to make a new record. That new record is of much better artistic quality than their last one. Also, are you saying that Brian's hits have no artistic quality?

Wow, you're bursting records for most words put in someone else's mouth per capita. All of them false, incidentally.

Well, you have to remember that you andNo, it is more like a more a balanced view has started to prevail.

I have worked since 1980. Now, ask me if I have made enough money after 32 years?

Yeah, but if you've made tens of millions, wouldn't you want to focus on doing what you love, even if that makes a little less money? For Mike, he loves huge audiences and tons of money, so it makes sense he'd march on.... Meanwhile it's clear that while Brian enjoys money, he's not quite as attached to it, or otherwise wouldn't have taken the chances he did with his career. I personally empathize with the latter more than the former.

Ugh, you're all just a bunch of Mike Loves, man.

You live your lifestyle by what you make. If I lived the way Mike & Brian live, I'd need to make millions too. You act like they live like we do. They don't!

As Randy Newman said, "I've got a family to support. But surely that is no excuse."

So, Mike and Brian are wrong, because they don't think like Randy Newman. Well, maybe they do. They did wait 20 years to make a new record. That new record is of much better artistic quality than their last one. Also, are you saying that Brian's hits have no artistic quality?

Wow, you're bursting records for most words put in someone else's mouth per capita. All of them false, incidentally.

You and I have rarely agreed on anything. We both speak English, yet we rarely understand what each other is saying. We speak jibberish to each other, that is just the way it seems to be. Oh well!

[Chocolate Shake Man]

You and I have rarely agreed on anything. We both speak English, yet we rarely understand what each other is saying. We speak jibberish to each other, that is just the way it seems to be. Oh well!

 

That's because I am from Jupiter and you are from Saturn. It's all in a book, surely.

[Mr. Cohen]

Lastly: In Concert's success was the end result of the BBs trying to be more artistic and mature. Didn't Rolling Stone call them the touring band of the year or something around that time? So they weren't doing THAT bad. 1968 was a bad year, but it wasn't all like that.

[drbeachboy]

You and I have rarely agreed on anything. We both speak English, yet we rarely understand what each other is saying. We speak jibberish to each other, that is just the way it seems to be. Oh well!

 

That's because I am from Jupiter and you are from Saturn. It's all in a book, surely.

And, "if Mars had life on it, you might find my wife on it."

[Chocolate Shake Man]

You and I have rarely agreed on anything. We both speak English, yet we rarely understand what each other is saying. We speak jibberish to each other, that is just the way it seems to be. Oh well!

 

That's because I am from Jupiter and you are from Saturn. It's all in a book, surely.

And, "if Mars had life on it, you might find my wife on it."

Haha. I guess that's before they discovered that the women were all on Venus. Boy, what a disappointing trip to Mars that would have been.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Lastly: In Concert's success was the end result of the BBs trying to be more artistic and mature. Didn't Rolling Stone call them the touring band of the year or something around that time? So they weren't doing THAT bad. 1968 was a bad year, but it wasn't all like that.

Given your take, your might disagree but could the success of In Concert have had anything to do with the fact that an audience was clearly ready for some of the old BB hits (this was after all only a year before Endless Summer) and this live album had Sloop John B, California Girls, Help Me Rhonda, Surfer Girl, Don't Worry Baby, Surfin' USA, Good Vibrations and Fun Fun Fun?

[drbeachboy]

Lastly: In Concert's success was the end result of the BBs trying to be more artistic and mature. Didn't Rolling Stone call them the touring band of the year or something around that time? So they weren't doing THAT bad. 1968 was a bad year, but it wasn't all like that.

Given your take, your might disagree but could the success of In Concert have had anything to do with the fact that an audience was clearly ready for some of the old BB hits (this was after all only a year before Endless Summer) and this live album had Sloop John B, California Girls, Help Me Rhonda, Surfer Girl, Don't Worry Baby, Sufin' USA, Good Vibrations and Fun Fun Fun?

Deleted- posted twice.

[drbeachboy]

Lastly: In Concert's success was the end result of the BBs trying to be more artistic and mature. Didn't Rolling Stone call them the touring band of the year or something around that time? So they weren't doing THAT bad. 1968 was a bad year, but it wasn't all like that.

Given your take, your might disagree but could the success of In Concert have had anything to do with the fact that an audience was clearly ready for some of the old BB hits (this was after all only a year before Endless Summer) and this live album had Sloop John B, California Girls, Help Me Rhonda, Surfer Girl, Don't Worry Baby, Sufin' USA, Good Vibrations and Fun Fun Fun?

Oh, most definitely. It was not due to the success of their 70s albums. They were very smart in touring the college campus circuit. While that helped build a great repuation for their live show, it really did not make significant inroads with their studio albums. Though, I suppose that Surf's Up & Holland did benefit a little from it. As much as I understand what Mike has done over past 30 years, I would have been much happier had they continued down the path they were on prior to Endless Summer being released. Also, their path of wandering through the wilderness ran from 1968 through 1970.

[Mr. Cohen]

Given your take, your might disagree but could the success of In Concert have had anything to do with the fact that an audience was clearly ready for some of the old BB hits (this was after all only a year before Endless Summer) and this live album had Sloop John B, California Girls, Help Me Rhonda, Surfer Girl, Don't Worry Baby, Surfin' USA, Good Vibrations and Fun Fun Fun?

Well, that album was about half hits, and half artsy or cult classic songs. And the unreleased version of In Concert has "You Need a Mess of Help To Stand Alone" and "Wild Honey", too. Also, check out this setlist from 1973: http://members.tripod.com/~fun_fun_fun/8-73.html Imagine asking Mike to do some of those songs now!

Of course, I'm sure those hits you mentioned helped sell In Concert. But it's also clear that the plethora of deeper or newer cuts didn't stop people from buying it, either. So there was ample room for balance. Now Brian has to fight Mike for "Marcella"!

[filledeplage]

Also, are you saying that Brian's hits have no artistic quality?

Oh sure they do. But it represents a very short period of their recording career, and one definitely gets the sense that Brian feels like it's been done enough. Sure, play some of the early hits, but do we need the BBs to keep pretending like it's 1965 forever? I also believe that the BBs fall from grace in the late '60s was largely out of their control, and in many ways was a reaction to the square surfing image people like Mike had worked so hard to build up. That the BBs came back into favor had later little to do with Mike's efforts at the time, since I think he was writing about baby seals and Big Sur then. Endless Summer took off on its own accord (yes, I know, Mike thought of the title for that album...) as the haze of the '60s dissipated and cheese came back in (see: disco). Aside from "Kokomo" and "Rock & Roll", it's not like the nostalgia songs have been that big of hits - a few others were top 40s hits, but that's it.

When you listen to songs like "Good Timin'" and "California Feeling", both written around 1974, it's clear that Brian wasn't going to stay in his abstract phase forever, either. He's always had a fond love for '50s music. And those two songs, both done without Mike's involvement, show a classier path the BBs could've taken back to commercial relevance after Endless Summer. Of course, it was Brian that recorded Love You, which opens a whole 'nother bag of questions...

Dada - An interesting video came on the streamer, featuring Brian, discussing, in an animated fashion, the much castigated "Hey Little Tomboy" and seemed to be in a mode post 15 Big Ones -  and seemed to be looking to get back into that groove of whatever thematic thing, made them have success in the first place.  He was so into the song, HLT, that I was surprised that no one here has mentioned, that interview where he discussed the concept of this ditty, which never impressed me as sexist

[It was an interview with Bob Harris in 1976 in the Part 2 section.  It has come GIW 1874 marking on the lower left hand corner. - YouTube]

The remark about "pummelling soccer moms" appears needlessly and vexaciously sexist.  As well as the "idiot savant" remark.  Mike worked well with Brian.  And, seems to continue to do so. Brian seems pretty "connected," and the google interview supports that. I've been blessed to have seen this reunion/"re-birth" of the Boys three times and Brian is participating fully.  

And, I have never seen the pre and post litigation songwriting credits list for Mike.  

Seems the court found that ownership was vested in Mike and he was wrongfully deprived of rightful credit. I think that was Murry.  Naturally, the record company cannot recall all those millions of records, 45's, LPs, and 78's for that matter, and re-stamp the labels, where Mike was not properly accorded authorship.

And, it was commonly occuring in those old days, that child, young adult performers, and other artists were robbed of their work by parents, agents and other charlatans.  Mike must have had some clearly articulable set of facts which would compel the court to dig deeper and discover to whom authorship was owed.  

It took a while for me to get used to the new configuration of the band, pre-reunion (rebirth) while they found their way, but after having seen Mike's/Bruce's band scores of times, I have come to truly respect his work, and the way he rose to the occasion, keeping the legacy of the music alive and flourishing.  

Even back to the early days following Carl's death, when they played smaller half-filled venues, re-building both a new younger clientele as well as reeling in the lifers, I think Mike has worked hard and built a band that is second-to-none.  He could just as easily thrown in the towel.  I find him open-minded enough to take music direction from a man younger than he, despite being the band leader. I admire that.  He has brought people aboard who add to the music dynamic.  And like Andrew, life without that music would be of lesser quality for many. [I'm paraphrasing.]

Humility to learn, when you are the Master, is a good quality.  If one looks at the situation from all directions, and points of view, not just one-sidedly, Mike's contribution is tremendous, I think.  
JMHO          

[Mr. Cohen]

The remark about "pummelling soccer moms" appears needlessly and vexaciously sexist.

OK, sorry - soccer mom and dads. It was just a handy phrase to describe the khakis and polo suburbia crowd that Mike and Bruce pander to. The last thing Mike wants to do is present anyone with challenging work. He can't see the purpose in that, seemingly. And the idiot savant comment was just me generalizing the way people characterize Brian when they claim that he needed Mike specifically to figure out how to be commercial - as if without Mike's 'unique' ability to filter out Brian's quirks, Brian would be nothing.

I give Mike credit. He was a good lyricist and had/has a nice lead voice. But does that make him anywhere close to what Brian was/is? Brian was a capable lyricist when he was inspired, wrote dozens of hits with numerous cowriters (not just Mike), could produce and arrange with the best of 'em, had an amazing voice, could play multiple instruments on stage, and etc.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Given your take, your might disagree but could the success of In Concert have had anything to do with the fact that an audience was clearly ready for some of the old BB hits (this was after all only a year before Endless Summer) and this live album had Sloop John B, California Girls, Help Me Rhonda, Surfer Girl, Don't Worry Baby, Surfin' USA, Good Vibrations and Fun Fun Fun?

Well, that album was about half hits, and half artsy or cult classic songs. And the unreleased version of In Concert has "You Need a Mess of Help To Stand Alone" and "Wild Honey", too. Also, check out this setlist from 1973: http://members.tripod.com/~fun_fun_fun/8-73.html Imagine asking Mike to do some of those songs now!

Of course, I'm sure those hits you mentioned helped sell In Concert. But it's also clear that the plethora of deeper or newer cuts didn't stop people from buying it, either. So there was ample room for balance. Now Brian has to fight Mike for "Marcella"!

And that's where I agree with you wholeheartedly. The boys could definitely throw in a few more deep cuts at the expense of some of the hits and the "casual audience member" that we talk about here would probably never notice. Hell, Neil Young gets away with doing shows where he doesn't play Heart of Gold. I think the Beach Boys could get away without performing Catch a Wave or Shut Down.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Seems the court found that ownership was vested in Mike and he was wrongfully deprived of rightful credit.

Mike was due rightful credit on many of those songs, yes. But there are a handful of those songs that I still find it hard to believe that Mike co-wrote.