The Genius of Mike Love

[Les P]

Mike's done a lot over the years for fans to have something against him:  The Hall of Fame speech, the resistance to Smile and Pet Sounds, Summer In Paradise, the lawsuits, etc.  But his attitude on surrounding this reunion put it all in the distant past to me.  I'm loving the setlists and I'm loving the renewed camaraderie he and Brian seem to have. 

But then I started seeing his comments about the second half of the new album!  Brian gives us what I think is easily some of his best and best RECEIVED material in SEVERAL DECADES and even throws Mike a few bones (lyrics, plus one of his older songs) and Mike knocks this stuff too, talking about how depressing it is.  Wake up, Mike!  "Spring Vacation" is a fine song but the other two songs you contributed to are almost unanimously named as the weakest tracks on the album.  Pretty much everyone likes the stuff you're knocking.  Let it go.  Stick to running the show on stage and keep your trap shut about Brian's new songs. 

MY "demands" for the next Beach Boys' album?  More of the same.  Brian makes the album he wants and tells Mike what and where to contribute and where to sing.  I personally LOVE that Brian had Jeff involved in the album before he even told Mike about it!  That way, Brian held the cards and all Mike could do was say yes or kill the project everyone wanted.  But knowing Mike's past, he's probably planning to leverage himself into a more democratic set up next time and I for one, hope it doesn't happen. 

Both guys have their strengths.  Mike should stick to being a singer and a showman and stop trying to force his seemingly outdated opinions on Brian and the fans.


...Just my two cents.

Phoenix, I pretty much agree with everything you said.  And after hearing the last 3 tracks on TWGMTR after the Mike Love-co-written tunes, I believe that there is no way that "Pet Sounds" would be at or near the top of greatest album lists had Brian not insisted on working with other collaborators in 1966.  Not to bash Mike, but he has a pretty narrow "artistic" worldview that Brian did and sometimes still wants to transcend.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

The issue raised is bad behavior and a feeling of injustice.  Did I miss something?

Apparently 50 years of bad behavior from Mike Love if you believe this constitutes some kind of similarity.

 I found the situation somewhat hypocritical.  And, I always supported his work until I read that he shut down the young artist's show.  After the Beach Boys showed Katy Perry support.  

How is it hypocritical? Where has he criticized or condemned the same behavior?

And, newsflash. Some of our best creators were daydreamers, who appeared to "stare into space" and appear to be inattentive.  Some of my highest and creative student acheivers were those daydreamers.  It can be an indicator of ADD or ADHD.  Those people are the real creative people for they think outside-the-box.  

In the last post, Brian was a beacon for the dying art of listening and now he is a beacon for the great daydreamers? Which one is it? I'm not sure I'm the one who is impressing my own speculative view on the situation here.

And, making an outsider observation about "discomfort" appears to be practicing medicine.  

No, not necessarily.

[filledeplage]

The issue raised is bad behavior and a feeling of injustice.  Did I miss something?

Apparently 50 years of bad behavior from Mike Love if you believe this constitutes some kind of similarity.

 I found the situation somewhat hypocritical.  And, I always supported his work until I read that he shut down the young artist's show.  After the Beach Boys showed Katy Perry support.  

How is it hypocritical? Where has he criticized or condemned the same behavior?

And, newsflash. Some of our best creators were daydreamers, who appeared to "stare into space" and appear to be inattentive.  Some of my highest and creative student acheivers were those daydreamers.  It can be an indicator of ADD or ADHD.  Those people are the real creative people for they think outside-the-box.  

In the last post, Brian was a beacon for the dying art of listening and now he is a beacon for the great daydreamers? Which one is it? I'm not sure I'm the one who is impressing my own speculative view on the situation here.

And, making an outsider observation about "discomfort" appears to be practicing medicine.  

No, not necessarily.

Reasonable minds can differ.  We can "disagree, without being disagreeble" as my former Harvard educated principal used to say. 

Obama says it, too.   

[SMiLE Brian]

Mike has been good behavior recently, but the "heroes and villains" book shows how much of an asshole he was back in the day.

[AndrewHickey]

Mike has been good behavior recently, but the "heroes and villains" book shows how much of an asshole he was back in the day.

That book also says that the band's seventh album was called The Beach Boys, that Holland had a track on it called Cool Clear Water, Today! was full of uninspired car tunes...

[SMiLE Brian]

Mike has been good behavior recently, but the "heroes and villains" book shows how much of an asshole he was back in the day.

That book also says that the band's seventh album was called The Beach Boys, that Holland had a track on it called Cool Clear Water, Today! was full of uninspired car tunes...

That book sucks on music details but gets the personal info down perfectly about Mike beating his wife and kids.

[Mr. Cohen]

Now, now, everyone knows Brian is the messed up one. Stick to the script!

[KittyKat]

I read that book a long time ago but don't remember it saying he hit one of his children.  Something about him getting mad at his wife for smoking and going off on her but not sure about what he did to his kids.

[SMiLE Brian]

I read that book a long time ago but don't remember it saying he hit one of his children.  Something about him getting mad at his wife for smoking and going off on her but not sure about what he did to his kids.

The book says he hit Christian so hard he flew across the room.

[MBE]

This doesn't apply to most of you so I'm sorry in advance to the real fans who at least give me credit for trying to present an honest look at the band even if they don't always see or hear what I do. Yet I can no longer stand the turn this board has made in the last year. This is a Beach Boys board for fans and friends who want to intelligently discuss their career and the story behind it. Lately it has been turning ever so blue. Hey people can differ from me, people can think I have it all wrong, but people who deny hard facts are infuriating. After having those of us who say nothing but that the Beach Boys all have talent, that during their prime they mostly worked together in harmony, were being called revisionists? That's the last fucking straw.

First Mike seems to have a good relationship with many of his kids, I was slapped sometimes as a kid and once I even fell from it. So what! My parents didn't "beat" me and I doubt Mike "beat" anyone either. It happens.otherwise good, honest, respectable people sometimes lose it and get violent.  He's been married a long time to what seems like an intelligent woman, even if he was a slapper maybe he learned from his mistakes and has his temper in line today.

When I grew up in the 80's all my friends got spanked or slapped. I'm not saying I agree with it personally, but it wasn't even an issue. Also Gaines simply reported what he was told. Is there a police record on Mike for domestic violence? Did Gaines consider the sources? Why don't you confront Mike yourself if it bothers you so much. It's really none of our damn business what people do in their personal lives, especially half a lifetime ago. Dennis is dead and people pick on him for crap choices he made. The man is DEAD and many judge him. Who am I or anybody to sit and judge Mike or Dennis for being dumb at times. It's not happening now, nobody died, nobody seems damaged beyond repair, sh*t happens in every family. Again not to defend it, I think it was an idiot thing to do,  but it's not your business and happened decades ago. Forgiveness is something sorely lacking here lately.

People like Mark Dillion, Jon, myself, and Andrew, we've done the legwork. Calling us revisionists! We just bother to get the truth. In life people do crappy things and do good things. It's part of maturity and growing up. We've beyond a doubt proved that much of what you hear about Mike or even Brian is unfair and perhaps we see through agenda's better. I have been angry on here the last few days. Angry that people look at stories that have been disproved and won't let them go. I work my ass off to get the truth out and I know everyone else I mentioned here and many others like C-Man and Ian do so as well. 90 percent of what is here in this thread is mythology and lies. Brian's not some innocent victim in the Beach Boys story. He has mental issues which are sad, but he's made really bad choices, that were his choices not matter what,

If some of you think we are so off why don't you personally take years out of your lives doing nothing else but writing, and meeting, and getting to know these people before you say crap that can't be backed up. I used to wonder why Andrew got upset at some of you...now I know. I want to get along with people in any situation, I want people to think I am fair in what I say, hell I'll come right out and say I want to sell books just like any other writer, but not to people that won't realize that I put my own name on the line to do this right. Some really insane things are being said on here that negate all of our hard work and frankly I can't let it slide.

I'm not getting up on a high horse, I'm no better than anyone,  but this is my career, my living. I'm not playing around or pushing any sort of agenda. I have put my entire heart and soul into this, simply because myths are what have caused these real people called the Beach Boys the most pain in their lives. Look at Dave, I bet many of you wrote him off without thinking. I bet some still do. Historical fact backs me up when I say that Mike Love isn't a demon and Brian isn't a saint. Frankly if Brian told some of you all this himself, you would question him. One last time these aren't your stupid icons and legends, these are and were real people with real feelings. How would you like to be so cruelly dissected and analysed? At the end of the day the Beach Boys have done nothing major in life but to make their listeners happy. I know they made my life a lot more fun. When you all put in the time and work and achieve even half of the positive things they have, then you can open your mouths. From now on I refuse to hear such nonsense. 

I am taking a very extended break from here. I don't need this kind of crap thrown at me. I will come back as promised to fill all of you who are interested in my book on the progress. If I see things have changed I will come back for good. Right now I can't handle such idiocy. I've worked too hard man, way too hard to have my work and those I consider colleagues work to be treated like dirt. The internet is a strange place. I've met the most wonderful people in my life on this board and on others, but some of you need some fresh air and maybe some long reflection. Just because you are behind your keyboard doesn't mean your words don't cut. Do not talk to people any differently than you would talk to their faces. I don't need it anymore. For the 80 percent of you that are good people I love you all as fellow fans and historians, honestly. Goodbye for now I promise when the air clears I will return.

[the professor]

Mike, for my part, I want to say I was moved by your posting and that I share your ambition in the realms of scholarship and fandom. Let the professor pledge his brother and support to you.

[Mr. Cohen]

How would you like to be so cruelly dissected and analysed?

I'm not trying to pick a fight here, but I just want to say that you wrote a book on the Beach Boys. So why don't we have a right to state opinions? So some interpret facts differently - is that such a big deal? Why can your view be the only one heard?

[Wirestone]

[OGoldin]

The essence of Mike Love: I want to not like "Spring Vacation" -- this is not at all what I would like a new Beach Boys album to sound like -- but I can't get the da*n thing out of my head and it makes me happy when I hear it.

[MBE]

Mike, for my part, I want to say I was moved by your posting and that I share your ambition in the realms of scholarship and fandom. Let the professor pledge his brother and support to you.

Thank you. I will be back and I am not angry anymore. I just need a break. This year I have been doing two books at once, lost my mother, and worked very hard at putting together a wedding for me and my wife that was a success but sucked out all of my energy. I have a new marriage to focus on and my work. Everybody does have a right to their view, very much so, but honestly despite what some people in the media are all about, others of us do this because only because we care about the art and the artist. I just hate when people who have worked so hard to spread positive things in their music are personally attacked. I hate Summer In Paradise as an album much as anyone, but to keep harping on issues that happened so long ago and to have actual personal hate for Mike or any of the others is deeply disturbing to me. I know their work has improved all of our lives, it's time to cut them some slack personally if not critically. Myself I have just been burning the candle at both ends and need to rest. I am sharing this with you because most of you are my friends and care as much or even more than I do about the group. There are those of us who are trying so hard to humanize groups like The Beach Boys as people, and offer some critical balance based on cold facts. I get too close to it sometimes and lose my own sense of self. In other words I am deeply sorry I showed my anger publically. What I said basically stands, but how I said it could have been much kinder. I forget that anybody on here does care in their own way, but when someones very hard work is dismissed as revisionism it does hurt. I've been working on this project since 1994 and that's a good half of my life, it's my baby and I guess I am far too protective at times.

[Phoenix]

Mike's done a lot over the years for fans to have something against him:  The Hall of Fame speech, the resistance to Smile and Pet Sounds, Summer In Paradise, the lawsuits, etc.  But his attitude on surrounding this reunion put it all in the distant past to me.  I'm loving the setlists and I'm loving the renewed camaraderie he and Brian seem to have. 

But then I started seeing his comments about the second half of the new album!  Brian gives us what I think is easily some of his best and best RECEIVED material in SEVERAL DECADES and even throws Mike a few bones (lyrics, plus one of his older songs) and Mike knocks this stuff too, talking about how depressing it is.  Wake up, Mike!  "Spring Vacation" is a fine song but the other two songs you contributed to are almost unanimously named as the weakest tracks on the album.  Pretty much everyone likes the stuff you're knocking.  Let it go.  Stick to running the show on stage and keep your trap shut about Brian's new songs. 

MY "demands" for the next Beach Boys' album?  More of the same.  Brian makes the album he wants and tells Mike what and where to contribute and where to sing.  I personally LOVE that Brian had Jeff involved in the album before he even told Mike about it!  That way, Brian held the cards and all Mike could do was say yes or kill the project everyone wanted.  But knowing Mike's past, he's probably planning to leverage himself into a more democratic set up next time and I for one, hope it doesn't happen. 

Both guys have their strengths.  Mike should stick to being a singer and a showman and stop trying to force his seemingly outdated opinions on Brian and the fans.


...Just my two cents.

Phoenix, I pretty much agree with everything you said.  And after hearing the last 3 tracks on TWGMTR after the Mike Love-co-written tunes, I believe that there is no way that "Pet Sounds" would be at or near the top of greatest album lists had Brian not insisted on working with other collaborators in 1966.  Not to bash Mike, but he has a pretty narrow "artistic" worldview that Brian did and sometimes still wants to transcend.

Why thanks!  It's nice to know someone sees where I'm coming from.   

[Jonathan Blum]

And, of course, the revisionists are using all of this back-patting to support their view that Mike was great and how Brian was just one slice of the BB's pie. The group has largely accomplished what they always sought to do - to be looked upon as more or less Brian's equals, and to square away the artistry of Pet Sounds and Smile as a drugged up aberration.

...How does "the group" accomplish this by putting out a huge and acclaimed Smile Sessions boxset, having Al sing the praises of "Surf's Up" in interviews, and playing half a dozen tracks from "Pet Sounds" and "Smile" to rapturous receptions at every show?

There's some rewriting of the record going on here, but not by the group...

Cheers,
Jon Blum

[SMiLE Brian]

This doesn't apply to most of you so I'm sorry in advance to the real fans who at least give me credit for trying to present an honest look at the band even if they don't always see or hear what I do. Yet I can no longer stand the turn this board has made in the last year. This is a Beach Boys board for fans and friends who want to intelligently discuss their career and the story behind it. Lately it has been turning ever so blue. Hey people can differ from me, people can think I have it all wrong, but people who deny hard facts are infuriating. After having those of us who say nothing but that the Beach Boys all have talent, that during their prime they mostly worked together in harmony, were being called revisionists? That's the last f*cking straw.

First Mike seems to have a good relationship with many of his kids, I was slapped sometimes as a kid and once I even fell from it. So what! My parents didn't "beat" me and I doubt Mike "beat" anyone either. It happens.otherwise good, honest, respectable people sometimes lose it and get violent.  He's been married a long time to what seems like an intelligent woman, even if he was a slapper maybe he learned from his mistakes and has his temper in line today.

When I grew up in the 80's all my friends got spanked or slapped. I'm not saying I agree with it personally, but it wasn't even an issue. Also Gaines simply reported what he was told. Is there a police record on Mike for domestic violence? Did Gaines consider the sources? Why don't you confront Mike yourself if it bothers you so much. It's really none of our damn business what people do in their personal lives, especially half a lifetime ago. Dennis is dead and people pick on him for crap choices he made. The man is DEAD and many judge him. Who am I or anybody to sit and judge Mike or Dennis for being dumb at times. It's not happening now, nobody died, nobody seems damaged beyond repair, sh*t happens in every family. Again not to defend it, I think it was an idiot thing to do,  but it's not your business and happened decades ago. Forgiveness is something sorely lacking here lately.

People like Mark Dillion, Jon, myself, and Andrew, we've done the legwork. Calling us revisionists! We just bother to get the truth. In life people do crappy things and do good things. It's part of maturity and growing up. We've beyond a doubt proved that much of what you hear about Mike or even Brian is unfair and perhaps we see through agenda's better. I have been angry on here the last few days. Angry that people look at stories that have been disproved and won't let them go. I work my ass off to get the truth out and I know everyone else I mentioned here and many others like C-Man and Ian do so as well. 90 percent of what is here in this thread is mythology and lies. Brian's not some innocent victim in the Beach Boys story. He has mental issues which are sad, but he's made really bad choices, that were his choices not matter what,

If some of you think we are so off why don't you personally take years out of your lives doing nothing else but writing, and meeting, and getting to know these people before you say crap that can't be backed up. I used to wonder why Andrew got upset at some of you...now I know. I want to get along with people in any situation, I want people to think I am fair in what I say, hell I'll come right out and say I want to sell books just like any other writer, but not to people that won't realize that I put my own name on the line to do this right. Some really insane things are being said on here that negate all of our hard work and frankly I can't let it slide.

I'm not getting up on a high horse, I'm no better than anyone,  but this is my career, my living. I'm not playing around or pushing any sort of agenda. I have put my entire heart and soul into this, simply because myths are what have caused these real people called the Beach Boys the most pain in their lives. Look at Dave, I bet many of you wrote him off without thinking. I bet some still do. Historical fact backs me up when I say that Mike Love isn't a demon and Brian isn't a saint. Frankly if Brian told some of you all this himself, you would question him. One last time these aren't your stupid icons and legends, these are and were real people with real feelings. How would you like to be so cruelly dissected and analysed? At the end of the day the Beach Boys have done nothing major in life but to make their listeners happy. I know they made my life a lot more fun. When you all put in the time and work and achieve even half of the positive things they have, then you can open your mouths. From now on I refuse to hear such nonsense. 

I am taking a very extended break from here. I don't need this kind of crap thrown at me. I will come back as promised to fill all of you who are interested in my book on the progress. If I see things have changed I will come back for good. Right now I can't handle such idiocy. I've worked too hard man, way too hard to have my work and those I consider colleagues work to be treated like dirt. The internet is a strange place. I've met the most wonderful people in my life on this board and on others, but some of you need some fresh air and maybe some long reflection. Just because you are behind your keyboard doesn't mean your words don't cut. Do not talk to people any differently than you would talk to their faces. I don't need it anymore. For the 80 percent of you that are good people I love you all as fellow fans and historians, honestly. Goodbye for now I promise when the air clears I will return.

Mike, I didn't mean any trouble when posting, I just posted what I learned from the  H&V book.

[MBE]

Well thank you for saying that. I just have talked to people who love and are close to Mike and Dennis and see many other sides to them. I don't excuse this, I just don't let  mistakes they may have made privately color my thoughts. The main reason for that is in basically all cases this involves people who they divorced or aren't happy with them for whatever reason. Because of that I don't feel we get the whole story. Obviously something like this is not easy to tackle and it's very hard to know what really happened, but nobody tells that to a writer without reason. I just know I wasn't there and I have been told many good things that counteract that.

Gaines for instance wrote Dennis didn't like black people. I made a point of asking many close friends of Dennis' and they say it is completely false. Gaines' book is interesting for what it is, but it is a tell all. I was told things in the course of my research that paint people in a very bad light, in every case of that though the person telling me that was angry at who they tattled on. Also I had zero way of backing it up. Perhaps Gaines felt that if someone told him something he had the right to print it, I understand that view but I personally couldn't do that unless I had a lot of conformation. The more scandal in a story the more care I took to prove it. Again that's just my way of doing things. I don't hold malice at all and thank you again for taking the time to write about this to me.

I still do need to take a break for a short while but I'm happy that most do know that revisionism is the last thing on my mind. I will also say in good faith that it isn't on the minds of any of the other recent authors I mentioned. I know like myself they are only trying to find out the truth the best they can and give everybody their due. Funny enough for me it was the excellent work Brian did from 1967-71 that initially confused me as it went against the stories I heard that led me to write about the Beach Boys. I mean when I learned Brian cut music from 1973-75 I was stunned because we were told he was in bed the entire time by some writers. My hunches were mostly proved to be true about his productivity being far higher than we knew from Smiley to Surf's Up. No it was not like it had been before but until 1972 he was there more than not in the studio or at very least worked on the lionshare of the songs to some level. We had always been told otherwise but everyones stories matched when pressed for details.

As I went on I realized every last one of them hadn't got their due for what they put into the Beach Boys. That's not true in the work of the authors I mentioned before, but before the songwriting lawsuit it was very much the case. I'm not talking about Mike solely, that lack of recognition went for all of them.  My book isn't a puff piece. I'm very hard on a lot of the material from 15 Big Ones to GIOMH, but I try to show what they each added musically while also showing where they each went wrong at times. Personally I just tried to make them human beings good and bad like anybody else. I again don't mind disagreement I just get upset if someone thinks I have anything but honorable intentions. Revisionism=agenda. For a writer that is only trying to present all sides of the story that word is the worst thing you throw at them. Thus why I was so upset rightly or wrongly.

[Nicko1234]

The group has largely accomplished what they always sought to do - to be looked upon as more or less Brian's equals

You are utterly insane.

[filledeplage]

And, of course, the revisionists are using all of this back-patting to support their view that Mike was great and how Brian was just one slice of the BB's pie. The group has largely accomplished what they always sought to do - to be looked upon as more or less Brian's equals, and to square away the artistry of Pet Sounds and Smile as a drugged up aberration.

...How does "the group" accomplish this by putting out a huge and acclaimed Smile Sessions boxset, having Al sing the praises of "Surf's Up" in interviews, and playing half a dozen tracks from "Pet Sounds" and "Smile" to rapturous receptions at every show?

There's some rewriting of the record going on here, but not by the group...

Cheers,
Jon Blum

Dada - Revisionist history is a bad place "to go."  And, I am not an historian of the work, as Andrew or Mike or Jon, but, have actively lived and grown, since a pre-teen, alongside their music.  I find the suggestion of the recounting of the accolades bestowed on the members of the Band, "backslapping" in a sort of political connotation.  It is just what would appear on their CV Curriculum Vitae (resumé.) 

The interviews are exactly the appropriate  place where music awards should be duly noted.  Bruce mentioned Mrs. O'Leary's Cow  [which I hope slides into the setlist at some point- along with The ( totally goofy!) Barnyard.] Mike mentioned Bruce's Grammy, when he was on his "sabbatical."  David spoke of his academic and other musical pursuits, including not being far from the Boys, and playing in Boston with them in 1971 when he was at Berklee.  I was there.  That is only my "casual history."  He wasn't making it up.  Dave stepped back when Carl was so sick.  Al has a solo album.       

And, there have been many reasonable posters who now, no longer post here.  They came to have a place of intelligent discourse about the music that was their soundtrack in life.  A real "history" lesson as it were, might be that ardent  fans who were marginalized among their peers and generation have joyfully found a place for discussion.  That was the era when the Boys were at the height of creativity and written off in the States.  All of them were creative; not just Brian.  I "lurked"  here for several years before I jumped in.   

And, I don't mean to single you out, but the "revisionist" thing got to me.  There is a certain hostility and pugnaciousness on this board, which is unacceptable.  For an BB author to feel the need to take a break, is unacceptable.  Even if this board is largely uncensored, which is a good thing, people need some boundaries and tolerance.   

And, I have felt for a long time that there are "multiple personalities" on this board, where the same person logs out as one "nom de plume" and relogs in as another.   

Frankly, when I look at the Rock and Roll HOF clip, I just laugh.  And it is all "situational" and "contextual."  It might have been an "off-day" and we all have them, and most of us have mis-spoken at one time or another in life.  High profile people don't seem to get the opportunity to have a "redo" and it is unfortunate.  I laugh because Mike told the truth.  The Stones NEVER toured as the Beach Boys did.  People may not like the "context" but, he did not lie.  And, maybe it was less-than-perfect judgement.  I would hate to think that something I said in the late 1980's or 1990's would either control or define my life.  It is brought up here, ad infinitum. 

Mike (Eder) should not be so provoked and challenged, as he does have an opinion, but it is an INFORMED (via study and research) opinion.  And I might not agree with all  that he writes [which I have not read] or other historians for that matter, but I respect that they are INFORMED (via research) and it is not all opinion. 

Informed opinion, such as court experts are given greater weight in court. Why?  Because their opinion is formed by studied research and information, not based on reflection. 

People should be able to post here, freely and not be hassled to the extent that they feel the need to "take a break."

For myself, I take everything I read with a grain of salt, and for the most part I don't read those books any longer although I have a few. Largely, I love photos, so if a book has good ones, I might pick it up.  I concern myself with the music, and the time between stepping on the stage and off. 

When they exit, "stage left" - they go back to their own lives.  Period. 


 

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Hi Mike,

Hope I wasn't responsible for your desire to take a break. Like I said from the start, it is impossible to find fault with your fair-minded and objective assessment of the band and I just wanted to share my take on one small piece of what you wrote, more to engage with it than to try to aggressively undermine it. Hope there are no bad feelings.

[KittyKat]

Mike Eder says that maybe some ex-wives or girlfriends with an ax to grind tattled on Mike Love.  If he ever did hit any of his ex-wives or kids, it's no excuse that it just came out because they had a grudge against him.  I don't blame any exes at all for telling the truth about that. I've known women who were victims of that and the passage of time doesn't make it hurt less and it also affects a woman's future trust of men.  I hope Mike Love has turned a page since those years ago and his latest wife would never put up with anything like that and it never happened to any of his wives or girlfriends since.  It still makes me think less of him for doing that even in the past though because there are many men who never have and never would treat a woman that way in their entire lives.

[Mr. Cohen]

You are utterly insane.

Haha, fair enough. I will say that when I wrote "equal", I meant musical equals. I certainly consider myself musically inferior to Brian Wilson, and I feel no shame in admitting that.

Also, I'm sorry that the term revisionist bothered people. I honestly wasn't aware of the work Eder or Blum had done when I made that comment. I wasn't try to slam someone's book. I was criticizing a perception on this board.

I guess I'm just a little concerned to see how the BBs image is being shaped for posterity. Look at how many articles blithely make statements like "Brian, after finally emerging from a 40 year long haze of drugs and mental troubles, in which he blahlblahblah...." It's so dismissive. Yeah, they released Smile - and packaged it with a surfboard?!?! And, of course, in every article, Brian clams up about Smile, only mentioning how much hashish he smoked (and journalists quote that with gleeful aplomb).

Nobody writes this: "Mike, after spending a good chunk of the '70s clutching apple juice and obsessively meditating, reemerged much stronger in the '80s to permanently shape the BBs as America's fun in the sun malt shop band. Though the band scored a hit with 'Kokomo', it was largely a disastrous turn that ruined the public perception of the group's artistry and relegated the BBs to small carnival shows for portions of the '90s and '00s."

Seems absurd, right? Well then why do people do that kind of stuff when writing about Brian? I'm not saying Eder or Blum do that, but there are some preconceptions out there that need to be fought.

[Mr. Cohen]

Also, I never brought up anything negative about Mike's family or whatever. I think that stuff is irrelevant.