Heroes and Villains and Good Vibrations on the tour

[Rocky Raccoon]

Any reason why they don't do the Smile versions?  Like no "hum-de-dums" on Good Vibrations or the "In the cantina..." bridge on Heroes and Villains, are they just shortened for time?

[Justin]

I'm sure rehearsals were busy enough with the new songs  for the tour and they didn't focus a great deal on the familiar stuff like H&V and GV.  I would guess Mike and Totten simply decided to go with the version that they already knew and move on to other things.

[AndrewHickey]

I would imagine it's because the number of people who know the Smile versions is tiny compared to the number who know the singles.

[Roger Ryan]

Also, with 45 songs in the set, I'm sure that everyone (Brian, included) would prefer the shortest versions possible  

[Runaways]

It's nice that they include the bridge to indians and brian sings "bicycle riider" parts.  i still want wonderful.

[Al Jardine: Pick Up Artist]

I can understand the original GV, but they really should include the cantina version.

Just sayin'.

[Rocky Raccoon]

I think it is kind of strange that they're on a tour off the heels of the success of The Smile Sessions yet there's barely any Smile material on the tour at all.  I'm surprised Surf's Up at least hasn't been included in the setlist.

[puni puni]

Hearing it without the cantina section is so weird. It's like neutering the song.

They should just play the entire Heroes and Villains suite, from H&V to Cabinessence. Too bad the band doesn't realize that the worst parts of their show are the greatest hits that they think they're obliged to do... You know, as if 99% of the audience is aware of any song they wrote that wasn't Kokomo.

[keysarsoze001]

Kokomo is a requirement. It was an enormous hit for them, like it or not (I don't, for the record). And it seems to me that removing it from the setlist would injure Mike's pride in a way that simply wouldn't be worth it. Regardless of its merits or lack thereof, he's rightly proud that he managed to contribute to an honest to goodness blockbuster hit without Cousin Brian. It's a part of their 50 year legacy, their only song released since the late 70s that casual fans have even heard, and it's actually liked by enough of the audience to warrant its inclusion. Certainly it has as many fans as, say, California Saga.

That said, the reason they're playing these versions is because they were the officially released versions. The Smile Sessions was an outtakes collection, not an album. They're playing them that way because those are the versions the majority of the fans know. I'll be honest, if I had my druthers, they'd be doing "Heroes and Villains" the way the band was playing it in the 70s, with a lot more edge to it. I loved the old live version of that song. "Good Vibrations" was the biggest hit of their lives, so you don't go messing with it now. Not on a tour that's supposed to be a summation of their recording legacy.

[Rocky Raccoon]

But that's the way Brian played them at his solo shows, even after the Smile tour.  Therefore they should now be considered the definitive versions to play.

[Chris Brown]

That said, the reason they're playing these versions is because they were the officially released versions. The Smile Sessions was an outtakes collection, not an album. They're playing them that way because those are the versions the majority of the fans know. I'll be honest, if I had my druthers, they'd be doing "Heroes and Villains" the way the band was playing it in the 70s, with a lot more edge to it. I loved the old live version of that song. "Good Vibrations" was the biggest hit of their lives, so you don't go messing with it now. Not on a tour that's supposed to be a summation of their recording legacy.

Given that they're playing some deeper cuts that most of the "fans" (and I use that term loosely) probably don't know, what's the harm in changing "Heroes" up a little bit?  I agree with you on "Good Vibrations", but given the recent Smile Sessions release, adding the "cantina" section would be a nice nod to the Smile fanatics out there, considering they don't appear to have any plans to add any more cuts from it.

[Dove Nested Towers]

That said, the reason they're playing these versions is because they were the officially released versions. The Smile Sessions was an outtakes collection, not an album. They're playing them that way because those are the versions the majority of the fans know. I'll be honest, if I had my druthers, they'd be doing "Heroes and Villains" the way the band was playing it in the 70s, with a lot more edge to it. I loved the old live version of that song. "Good Vibrations" was the biggest hit of their lives, so you don't go messing with it now. Not on a tour that's supposed to be a summation of their recording legacy.

Given that they're playing some deeper cuts that most of the "fans" (and I use that term loosely) probably don't know, what's the harm in changing "Heroes" up a little bit?  I agree with you on "Good Vibrations", but given the recent Smile Sessions release, adding the "cantina" section would be a nice nod to the Smile fanatics out there, considering they don't appear to have any plans to add any more cuts from it.

Solid perspective.

[puni puni]

They're playing them that way because those are the versions the majority of the fans know.

Hahahahahahahaha, right. And "the majority of fans" are surely listening to the Smiley Smile version, completely unaware of the original. No, I'm certain there's a whole club of people that know The Beach Boi~s did a song called Heroes and Villains while somehow being oblivious to an album called Smile.
And as if anyone is going to be bothered by the inclusion of the cantina or hum-be-dum sections.

But that's the way Brian played them at his solo shows, even after the Smile tour.  Therefore they should now be considered the definitive versions to play.

That would mean Brian consciously doesn't want to play it, which is fine.

[AndrewHickey]

They're playing them that way because those are the versions the majority of the fans know.

Hahahahahahahaha, right. And "the majority of fans" are surely listening to the Smiley Smile version, completely unaware of the original. No, I'm certain there's a whole club of people that know The Beach Boi~s did a song called Heroes and Villains while somehow being oblivious to an album called Smile.

Heroes & Villains is on Sounds Of Summer, which has sold at least a couple of million copies, and while I don't know exactly what the tracklists of the various US hits compilations have been over the years, I do know that it's also on 20 Golden Greats (a UK number one album), The Very Best Of The Beach Boys and The Platinum Collection, all of which are successful compilations.

So yes, there are a *LOT* of people out there who know of Heroes & Villains but not of Smile.

[puni puni]

Maybe in the UK it's different. Heroes and Villains is incredibly obscure to me; I hadn't even known it existed until a couple years ago. I asked several people after if they'd heard of it (including my mom) and no one did.

The songs everybody knows:
I Get Around
Surfin' USA
Surfin' Safari
Fun, Fun, Fun
California Girls
Good Vibrations
Barbara Ann
Kokomo
Help Me, Rhonda
Wouldn't It Be Nice
God Only Knows
Sloop John B

That's really all the setlist needs regarding the well-known tracks. I have trouble believing the average person would expect anything more from this band, let alone that they know the band even wrote more than half of those songs.

It leaves a good amount of space left to the good stuff, the things I would actually pay money to go see performed live: Cabinessence, Surf's Up, 'Til I Die, That's Not Me, etc. Even more if they thought to make all the surf songs into a short medley.

There's a fair amount of people that aren't showing up to these concerts because of the awful Mike Love setlist. The Smile Sessions brought A LOT of new fans who are only interested in the 1966/1967 material, and only performing five cuts from that era is not worth the agony of sitting through Little Honda, Catch A Wave, Don't Back Down, Little Deuce Coupe, Shut Down, 409, In My Room, Surfer Girl, or Be True To Your School.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Maybe in the UK it's different. Heroes and Villains is incredibly obscure to me; I hadn't even known it existed until a couple years ago. I asked several people after if they'd heard of it (including my mom) and no one did.

The songs everybody knows:
I Get Around
Surfin' USA
Surfin' Safari
Fun, Fun, Fun
California Girls
Good Vibrations
Barbara Ann
Kokomo
Help Me, Rhonda
Wouldn't It Be Nice
God Only Knows
Sloop John B

Interesting because in the UK, Heroes and Villains was a top 10 single in 1967. And it charted higher than both Surfin' Safari and God Only Knows, both on your list. It's also been a conventional track for greatest hits comps for years, as Andrew mentioned above.

[puni puni]

Maybe in the UK it's different.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Maybe I don't understand what you meant - you are not in the UK? In the US it was still a Top 15 hit and still charted higher than Surfin' Safari and God Only Knows.

[AndrewHickey]

There's a fair amount of people that aren't showing up to these concerts because of the awful Mike Love setlist. The Smile Sessions brought A LOT of new fans who are only interested in the 1966/1967 material, and only performing five cuts from that era is not worth the agony of sitting through Little Honda, Catch A Wave, Don't Back Down, Little Deuce Coupe, Shut Down, 409, In My Room, Surfer Girl, or Be True To Your School.

Well, if you think it's agony to sit through In My Room, I'd suggest a Beach Boys gig will never be for you. And the setlist is not that different from what Brian's been performing in recent years, either. And your mother may not know Heroes & Villains, but at least two million people in the US have a CD with it on.

And for every new 'fan' who is 'only interested in the 1966/67 era' there are a thousand or so people who are only interested in the 1962-65 stuff. There are also quite a few of us who actually like the material *after* 1967. Incidentally, I count six songs from 66/67 in the set -- Sloop John B, God Only Knows, Wouldn't It Be Nice, I Just Wasn't Made For These Times, Good Vibrations, Heroes & Villains.

Personally, were I in the band, I would find the idea of organising the set to please someone who thought they'd only recorded two good albums in fifty years quite insulting. The setlist they've got does lean more heavily on the hits than I'd personally like (my own favourite stuff is from Smiley Smile through Love You), but putting in three songs from Sunflower, one from Surf's Up, two from Carl & The Passions and two from Holland hardly suggests that they're wanting to shortchange those of us who like the artier stuff.

[puni puni]

Well, if you think it's agony to sit through In My Room, I'd suggest a Beach Boys gig will never be for you.

It's just an example of a song that doesn't need to be performed live, if Mike Love's vision of a "commercial setlist" is all that's keeping it in. I'd much rather hear Wonderful, complete with yodel-lay-hee-hoos... That would be such a highlight.

And for every new 'fan' who is 'only interested in the 1966/67 era' there are a thousand or so people who are only interested in the 1962-65 stuff.

http://www.last.fm/music/The+Beach+Boys/+charts?rangetype=week&subtype=tracks
Wow, you're right. Just compare the plays in the last week for Shut Down and That's Not Me. It's exactly "a thousand or so," like you said. Thank the Radio God that Mike Love is sparing us the non-commercial I Know There's An Answer in favor of crowd favorites like Little Honda.

Personally, were I in the band, I would find the idea of organising the set to please someone who thought they'd only recorded two good albums in fifty years quite insulting.

Deal with it, just like they do. The Lovester thinks that he needs to sing Shut Down and 409, he should also apply that mindset to people that don't care for anything before and after 1966 (or haven't listened to it yet!).

A quarter of the setlist focusing on 1962-1965, a quarter from 1966, and the other half for deeper 1962-present songs. What's wrong with that?
Although if they performed Pet Sounds, Smile, and Love You in full, that would be fine too.

[Ebb and Flow]

http://www.last.fm/music/The+Beach+Boys/+charts?rangetype=week&subtype=tracks
Wow, you're right. Just compare the plays in the last week for Shut Down and That's Not Me. It's exactly "a thousand or so," like you said. Thank the Radio God that Mike Love is sparing us the non-commercial I Know There's An Answer in favor of crowd favorites like Little Honda.

Last.fm is not a very accurate method of determining which songs are popular across the broad spectrum of fandom, especially for a 50 year old band where a large chunk of their listening audience may not be tech savvy or be interested in a service like that.  That list is heavily skewed toward Pet Sounds because it's an indie/hipster favorite and because last.fm is primarily used by young people.

[runnersdialzero]

They're playing them that way because those are the versions the majority of the fans know.

Hahahahahahahaha, right. And "the majority of fans" are surely listening to the Smiley Smile version, completely unaware of the original. No, I'm certain there's a whole club of people that know The Beach Boi~s did a song called Heroes and Villains while somehow being oblivious to an album called Smile.
And as if anyone is going to be bothered by the inclusion of the cantina or hum-be-dum sections.

Uh, wat.

The alleged "Smile versions" are 2011 inventions. They're not the originals. This is not how these songs were originally envisioned in the 60s for the Smile album, and above all, it's not how they were finished in 1966/1967. They're playing the version of "Good Vibrations" that has been known and loved by fans for 46 years, not the version that was edited for The Smile Sessions release last year. Same goes for "Heroes", although a few Smile references have been thrown in there. That's how the song was finished in 1967 and yes, that's the version most people are familiar with. The 2011 edit is not the "original".

So yeah. That's why they're playing the songs as they were finished back in 1966/1967 and not playing versions they've never performed before that were edited together in 2011.

[jamsvet]

I've been to two of the concerts so far and the third will be in Stateline. When you hear the crowds response to Little Duece Coupe, Fun Fun Fun, Shut Down, it's amazing. The place erupts in applause. When Fun Fun Fun plays and the entire crowd is singing along to the high parts,  you will realize what they came to hear. I have many, many, many BB recordings and I love to play "deep" tracks when I'm at my office screwing around with my cars but the people who paid the big money to see them, payed the  money all these years to push songs like Kokomo to number 1, want to hear the classics.

[runnersdialzero]

There's a fair amount of people that aren't showing up to these concerts because of the awful Mike Love setlist. The Smile Sessions brought A LOT of new fans who are only interested in the 1966/1967 material, and only performing five cuts from that era is not worth the agony of sitting through Little Honda, Catch A Wave, Don't Back Down, Little Deuce Coupe, Shut Down, 409, In My Room, Surfer Girl, or Be True To Your School.

kappa sez "In My Room" = worthless trash

Come on, d00d. These setlists are damn good, full of lots of unexpected additions and deeper cuts.

I enjoy your blaming of *everything* bad on Mike Love. I'm sure the guy is sitting there with a pen and paper, laughing maniacally as he writes "Heroes And Villains (aka total trash) (NO CANTINA SECTION FUCK THAT)" or something.

I also enjoy your dismissal of something like"In My Room" or "Surfer Girl", essential Brian Wilson tracks. Not getting those or dismissing them is not really getting Brian Wilson, just as not getting "Surf's Up" or "Heroes And Villains" isn't, to me. Sorry, I think they deserve a setlist spot as much as "Heroes And Villains", albeit for very different reasons. But hey, Mike added them to the setlist which only contains the biggest radio hits (like "This Whole World", "Please Let Me Wonder", "Marcella", "Add Some Music To Your Day", "I Just Wasn't Made For These Times", etc. etc. etc. and not even adding "Kokomo" to the setlist until several dates in), so it must be a flaming pile of shit.

Mike ain't such a bad guy ^_^ A bit of an asshole, true, but not deserving of the amount of scorn you've thrown his way in this thread. Chill out u r an indian smoking some pizza from the ceremonial pipe or something39jtiegw

[puni puni]

That list is heavily skewed toward Pet Sounds because it's an indie/hipster favorite and because last.fm is primarily used by young people.

Then why is Kokomo so high up?

That's how the song was finished in 1967 and yes, that's the version most people are familiar with. The 2011 edit is not the "original".

Look at it this way: there are two kinds of people.
1. People who listen to The Beach Boys on the radio.
2. People who listen to The Beach Boys through their real albums.

If you are buying a greatest hits disc, then you probably don't care about the band's general output. "Heroes and whatsits? Honey, put on Kokomo."
If you are buying Smiley Smile, you're not listening to it thinking that it's the true follow-up to Pet Sounds (unless the year is 1967).

But whenever I look at concert footage, it does seem like most of the audience was in their 20s when Smiley Smile came out... I don't even know anymore.
I think the reason why that is, is because they're the only people who can deal with the placid tunes. If they suddenly decided to play Smile in full as their second set, I'd bet the average concert attendant's age would go down by about forty years.