Heroes and Villains and Good Vibrations on the tour

[Micha]

Well I don't think anybody on this board or any fan at all would be disappointed if they dropped Ballad of Ole Betsy, Then I Kissed Her, and Why Do Fools Fall in Love in favor of say maybe Caroline No, Surf's Up, and Wonderful.

You got my vote!

[runnersdialzero]

Christ almighty! What a horrible thread this turned out to be.

[JanBerryFarm]

Any reason why they don't do the Smile versions?  Like no "hum-de-dums" on Good Vibrations or the "In the cantina..." bridge on Heroes and Villains, are they just shortened for time?

Because the original release version is best. The Beach Boys knew that then, and they know that now.

I don't think the Beach Boys are 'SMiLE' fanatics. And that doesn't bother me one bit.

The 45 version of H&V would have sold more if Brian had used a Fender bass instead of the muddy string bass.

[runnersdialzero]

"How was The Beach Boys concert?"
"It was horrible! They overfilled the setlist with that insufferable 'Pat Stounz' and 'Smoyle' malarky and played Here Today and Our Prayer instead of Funky Pretty or And Your Dreams Come True. I want my fodering money back."

Crappy attempt at runnersdialzero like humor. Try again.

Ouch!

[Jason]

Board's turning blue. I would suggest that certain folks in this thread direct their attention to the bluebored.

[runnersdialzero]

Board's turning blue. I would suggest that certain folks in this thread direct their attention to the bluebored.

BUT...

PET SOUNDS AND SMiLE. PET SOUNDS AND SMiLE. PET SOUNDS AND SMiLE. PET SOUNDS AND SMiLE. PET SOUNDS AND SMiLE. PET SOUNDS AND SMiLE. PET SOUNDS AND SMiLE. PET SOUNDS AND SMiLE. PET SOUNDS AND SMiLE. PET SOUNDS AND SMiLE. PET SOUNDS AND SMiLE. PET SOUNDS AND SMiLE. PET SOUNDS AND SMiLE. PET SOUNDS AND SMiLE. PET SOUNDS AND SMiLE. PET SOUNDS AND SMiLE. PET SOUNDS AND SMiLE. PET SOUNDS AND SMiLE. PET SOUNDS AND SMiLE. PET SOUNDS AND SMiLE. PET SOUNDS AND SMiLE. PET SOUNDS AND SMiLE. PET SOUNDS AND SMiLE. PET SOUNDS AND SMiLE.

[Mr. Cohen]

Random thought - imagine if Brian suggested in the studio to have someone play drums like he has Hal play on "You're So Good To Me"! It's literally just a snare, kick, and tambourine stomping on every beat. There are no fills or variations. They'd probably 'correct' him. I just watched a video of the BBs performing the song live about a month ago, and the drummer couldn't resist throwing in fills and few light cymbal crashes. But why? I've really come to admire Hal Blaine's restraint on the kit. It totally fits what pop music is. Showy drums are for 3/4 piece bands.

[lance]

Is that Hal? I thought it was Dennis on that song.

[Mr. Cohen]

OK, I'll admit I don't know who played what on all the sessions. Even if it was Dennis, we know he could do a lot more than that with his kit if he wanted to.

[AndrewHickey]

Random thought - imagine if Brian suggested in the studio to have someone play drums like he has Hal play on "You're So Good To Me"! It's literally just a snare, kick, and tambourine stomping on every beat. There are no fills or variations. They'd probably 'correct' him. I just watched a video of the BBs performing the song live about a month ago, and the drummer couldn't resist throwing in fills and few light cymbal crashes. But why? I've really come to admire Hal Blaine's restraint on the kit. It totally fits what pop music is. Showy drums are for 3/4 piece bands.

What works in the studio and what works live are two different things. The drummers with Brian's band, too, have always played more than on the record on tracks like that, and Dennis played more fills on stage than on the record. I *love* the drum parts Brian came up with in the studio, but while they work perfectly as music, they don't work as well for holding a live band together.

For the most part Cowsill is sticking pretty closely to the parts as written, and the changes he makes are, to my ears, reasonable ones, but your mileage may, of course, vary.

[Cabinessenceking]

One of the aspects of the Beach Boys that I love is the fact that they restrain the drumming to a very large extent.

There are many BB songs without any drums. The songs that have drums are often very simlistic and don't distract the listener from the music. It seems Brian was more into making the bass do the rythem than the drums. GOK is a good example of that. Not a single song has some damn and dull drum solo. I wish more drummers and music groups would realise less is more when it comes to drumming. I prefer artsy percussion over the standard drum kit.

[ontor pertawst]

So true.

As a flat-out Maureen Tucker worshiper, the Beach Boys' restraint with drums is right up my proverbial alley. Very little irritating use of crash crash smash cymbals.

Dennis was fuckin' great at thudding away. Brian has a great feel for JUST ENOUGH percussion that work great with his ideas about basslines.

[AndrewHickey]

Absolutely agreed. Brian gets a far more interesting sound by having the treble percussion be something other than hi-hat and ride cymbal -- sleighbells, tambourine or tuned percussion. And I love the minimalism of the drum parts on Love You, or something like Funky Pretty.

[Mr. Cohen]

I *love* the drum parts Brian came up with in the studio, but while they work perfectly as music, they don't work as well for holding a live band together.

I don't know what part of someone slamming their snare on every beat wouldn't hold me together as a musician, but I respect your point. Sometimes, I feel like the drumming on the new record is fit for more for a Who record.

[AndrewHickey]

I *love* the drum parts Brian came up with in the studio, but while they work perfectly as music, they don't work as well for holding a live band together.

I don't know what part of someone slamming their snare on every beat wouldn't hold me together as a musician, but I respect your point. Sometimes, I feel like the drumming on the new record is fit for more for a Who record.

Oh, the drumming on the new album isn't great at all, and doesn't really fit with the style of Brian's best stuff. Don't know whether that's the fault of the drummer(s) on the tracks, or of Brian, or of Thomas, or some combination, though.

As for the live band comment, I can't really explain that, just intuitively for me when playing with drummers there is some sort of optimum amount of flashiness and complexity in the part that I can respond to. Brian's normal parts would be a bit too empty for me to lock in to perfectly, while the parts Cowsill plays on stage seem to be in the sweet spot where it'd be easy to lock into but it's never overwhelming or distracting.

[Jonathan Blum]

...I'd just like to revisit this argument now that the boys have started playing "Pet Sounds" and "Our Prayer".

I'm running out of wildest dreams now, myself...

Cheers,
Jon Blum