"The Fragile Beach Boys Reunion" - Rolling Stone Magazine

[NatureShowInStereo]

Actually got the magazine, really great article. An adventure of a read; I loved it.

[Micha]

As terrible as it is to say, Carl's death basically cleared the way for Brian to lead the band again.

That's a sad thought that had crossed my mind too.

[The Heartical Don]

really f*cked that they gave the cover to Sheen. i mean come the f*ck on.

RS is a money-driven operation, esp. because it was founded, and is still governed by people linked to the hippie movement. Made dopehead/bad actor Sheen simply sells more copies than do five elderly gents who are too old to participate in the X-factor.

[southbay]

really fodido that they gave the cover to Sheen. i mean come the foder on.

RS is a money-driven operation, esp. because it was founded, and is still governed by people linked to the hippie movement. Made dopehead/bad actor Sheen simply sells more copies than do five elderly gents who are too old to participate in the X-factor.

I actually tried reading the articles on Sheen and John Mayer and couldn't finish either one.  Both are so absolutely full of themselves (Mayer actually moreso) they make Mike Love somehow seem refreshingly gracious...

[The Heartical Don]

really fodido that they gave the cover to Sheen. i mean come the foder on.

RS is a money-driven operation, esp. because it was founded, and is still governed by people linked to the hippie movement. Made dopehead/bad actor Sheen simply sells more copies than do five elderly gents who are too old to participate in the X-factor.

I actually tried reading the articles on Sheen and John Mayer and couldn't finish either one.  Both are so absolutely full of themselves (Mayer actually moreso) they make Mike Love somehow seem refreshingly gracious...

Good observation, thanks (I don't have the issue). What you tell is truly a sign of our times. I guess narcissism best describes modern popular culture, perhaps it has taken the place of what used to be called: character and creativity.

[Heysaboda]

I still find that "I think I'll stay" line to Carl amazing.
Yes, he'll stay because he has a few more things to do, like perform Pet Sounds live, finish Smile, create TLOS, do the Gershwin album, and write and perform the best BBs album in years.

That was really something to read. ["I think I'll stay."]

Sort of a Robert Frost "miles to go before I sleep" concept.

Yes, exactly!  Nice connection and nicely put!!!

Something very Frostian about the last 3 songs, indeed!

[onkster]

Now you're making me think of Squeeze! "Footprints on the beaches are now footprints in the Frost..." Hah!

But I digress.

You're right, it does have that feel, exactly. Mature and true. That's what elevates it above mere fun/sun.

Y'know, now that I think about it, Mike and Brian are the yin-yang sugar-salt duality you almost have to have for a satisfying Beach Boys--or hell, life in general--experience: the let's-not-think-too-deeply-and-just-have-fun side, and the well-there's-more-to-it-all-than-that-and-we-gotta-consider-it side. And those complement each other, do they not?

[Jim V.]

Yeah, I agree Wirestone.  


Something I've always been appreciative of, and always thought held true... was that all of the beach boys, and especially Mike, absolutely WORSHIP Brian more than even we fans do.  All of them.  Period.  I mean, gushing, profound, over the top, "Oh my god he's just like Jesus Christ" type admiration.  

Even when he was pretty damn gone, they'd drop everything they were doing and come running at his beckon call to record... "Ding Dang" or whatever.  

The impression ultimately that I've gotten, from all kinds of articles like this, from books, from anctedotes, everything... is that all of the Beach Boys, Mike, Carl, Dennis, Al, Dave, and Bruce... love nothing more in life than sitting in a room and having Brian Wilson tell them what to sing.  

Well, I think this is true sometimes. Problems tended to crop up when you had competing artistic visions for the band, especially during the post Endless Summer era, when Mike had very clear ideas about where to go, Carl and Dennis had other ideas, and Brian was off in his own little world. Given that they're free of outside influences now -- and Brian is the only one of them regularly recording Beach Boys-sounding music -- there is much less conflict over creative direction. As terrible as it is to say, Carl's death basically cleared the way for Brian to lead the band again.

I was thinking the same thing.

First off, when Carl was still around, the band was still somewhat viable as a band.  The lineup of Mike, Carl, Al, and Bruce was the lineup that did "Kokomo" and most people accepted that collection as "The Beach Boys". Shoot, they even made an album with that lineup, Summer in Paradise, regardless of how bad it is.

Secondly, and more importantly, I gotta say that Carl's presence did present a roadblock for Brian artistically. It is known that he walked out of the sessions for Brian's Beach Boys material in 1995, apparently because he wasn't so into the songs. I just could not see Mike, Al, Bruce, or David doing that. These guys know that they need Brian's songs, and that Brian holds all the cards. No Brian, no viable modern artistic entity known as The Beach Boys. However, if Carl was still around, and wasn't part of the proceedings, one would imagine the whole thing would fall apart, likely because Brian would probably be so hurt that his brother didn't like his stuff that he'd quit the project.

However, I totally wish Carl was still with us. It would be quite interesting to wonder what would have happened from '98 til now if he was still around. Would Brian still have toured on his own? Would he have done Pet Sounds and SMiLE live? Would Carl have joined him? Or would these have been Beach Boys projects? Would Al still have been kicked out? Would there have been a new Beach Boys album around 2000? Who knows?

And one other weird thing I thought about recently, is wondering how Denny and Carl would have looked if they were still alive. I can't imagine Denny as a 70 year old man! Would Carl still have had the beard, turned totally grey? Weird as it sounds, I think 2012 Carl might have looked a bit like Brian does now!

[Ron]

The reason you can't imagine what they'd look like is it just wasn't meant to happen.  No way Dennis ever would have made 70. 

[buddhahat]

Wow that's one of the most interesting Brian Wilson/Beach Boys articles I've read in a long time. I particularly enjoyed the account of Brian on the plane. It reminded me of as lot of non fiction novel journalism that came out in the 70s - Tom Wolfe etc. Great stuff. Makes me think this approach applied to a more in depth Brian Wilson interview (spread over a longer time period) would be fascinating.

Thanks for scanning/sharing the article.

[Cam Mott]

I have to think that if Carl was alive and Brian wanted to lead, Carl would gladly step out of the way.  I don't know why Carl walked out that time but I bet if we knew the truth it wouldn't have anything to do with Brian's artistry.

[Wirestone]

I have to think that if Carl was alive and Brian wanted to lead, Carl would gladly step out of the way.  I don't know why Carl walked out that time but I bet if we knew the truth it wouldn't have anything to do with Brian's artistry.

I think this is incorrect. Brian stated outright that Carl told him he didn't like the material.

[Jim V.]

In Carl's defense however, one has to imagine that he objected to the material because he though Brian could do better probably. Carl knew how special Brian is, and he probably at some point figured to himself that if there was another project with Brian and The Beach Boys it had to be at a certain level, and apparently things like "Soul Searchin'" and "You're Still A Mystery" weren't up to his standards. How garbage like Summer in Paradise and Stars And Stripes appealed to him, but Brian's mid-'90s tunes didn't, doesn't make much sense to me, but hey, he's his own person. We all have our own taste and our own situations going on.

[Doo Dah]

Great hypotheticals. When Brian's solo career really hit high gear with the Pet Sounds symphony and Smile, I couldn't help but wonder how it would have been received by Carl (or whether the gravity pull of a Beach Boys with Carl would've precluded Brian's solo excursions).

Regarding today's power dynamics in the band, I do recall Carl's interview in Musician magazine - released just prior to the '85 album. He was proud of the band's new effort but specifically stated that in order for the Beach Boys to make a GREAT album, that album would need to conceived and directed by Brian. The fall out  in '95 seemed to contradict that, but that is what he said back in '85. Just a guess on my part, but I bet that Carl would've liked the new album. He always believed in the legacy of the Beach Boys sound, and the new album is pure legacy - in all its permutations (and excitations).

[HeyJude]

It's too bad Carl was never interviewed indepth on these and other topics. It certainly seems that at a certain point, he sort of stopped putting up a fight to things like "Summer in Paradise" or "Stars and Stripes" or the jukebox touring, etc.

His reported distaste for the couple of Paley tracks the BB's worked on has always been really vague. One report I remember reading suggested he simply didn't like the Don Was-produced backing track to "Soul Searchin'." He sang the song to that backing track, but later on his vocal was dubbed back onto the older Paley-Brian-produced backing track, which is the version we've heard for all these years. The Was backing track has never surfaced, and while they did the cut-and-paste job on Carl's vocal before he died, he may have never heard that version.

But the BB's are sometimes the kings of irony and contradictions. "Smile" is too weird, but they put out "Smiley Smile." Somebody doesn't like the Paley tracks, but soon after signs on for an album where Toby Keith sings "Be True to Your School."

[Jcc]

I'd like to imagine that if Carl were alive, he would have joined Brian on the Pet Sounds tour and ultimately the BWPS tour.  He did not seem as though he would have wanted to do the non-stop fairground tour circuit with the Mike and Bruce band, and it would seem that the opportunity to perform the best music from Brian's best days would pull him in like a magnet.   It would be the Wilson Brothers on tour!

But at the same time, maybe it was Carl's death which smacked BW in the face and made him think, "gee, I'm sort of running out of time.  Maybe I ought to resurrect my career and deal with my demons because if I don't, I'm going to be remembered as nothing more than a 60's surf music genius who had an acid meltdown and spent his life in bed."

Whatever the reason is, it's very clear that BW has found his mojo again.  It's almost if the solo period was preparation for the day he would have to take command of his old band again and right the ship.

[Justin]

It's almost if the solo period was preparation for the day he would have to take command of his old band again and right the ship.

I said the same thing several weeks ago. 

Thank goodness he kept up the touring in the 90's and 00's because he would not have been able to take on such a tour as this Celebration tour is turning out to be. 

[HeyJude]

I'd like to imagine that if Carl were alive, he would have joined Brian on the Pet Sounds tour and ultimately the BWPS tour.  He did not seem as though he would have wanted to do the non-stop fairground tour circuit with the Mike and Bruce band, and it would seem that the opportunity to perform the best music from Brian's best days would pull him in like a magnet.   It would be the Wilson Brothers on tour!

But at the same time, maybe it was Carl's death which smacked BW in the face and made him think, "gee, I'm sort of running out of time.  Maybe I ought to resurrect my career and deal with my demons because if I don't, I'm going to be remembered as nothing more than a 60's surf music genius who had an acid meltdown and spent his life in bed."

Whatever the reason is, it's very clear that BW has found his mojo again.  It's almost if the solo period was preparation for the day he would have to take command of his old band again and right the ship.

I know the "what if" thing is pretty pointless, but I'm not sure Carl would have just one day decided to leave the touring BB's and join Brian. Even prior to his illness, in the 90's Carl seemed to become more and more resigned to Mike's vision for the band and he continued to participate in that band. Carl and Dennis seemed to be major proponents in the 70's especially of being more progressive in the studio and live. Carl seemed to feel this way into the 80's, one of his conditions on rejoining the live band in 1982 being to institute a more varied setlist. But it's ironic that a Carl-less BB's in 2012 are performing a more interesting and varied setlist than anything the BB's with Carl did in the 90's and probably the 80's (apart from the late '93 "box set" tour).

I think Carl may well have worked with Brian on Brian's solo stuff. It's more likely in my view that Carl would have maybe fostered a Brian-inclusive BB reunion sooner as opposed to leaving the BB's and touring with Brian. But of course, the what-if scenarios mean nothing.

[Jcc]

Good points, but there's a big difference between fighting an uphill battle with a bunch of stubborn band-mates to get creative control of the band (and finally giving up on that fight after 20 years) and joining something (Brian's Band) which would already be a happening thing.

Carl's 2001 choice:  Casino or Concert Hall?

[Wirestone]

Good points, but there's a big difference between fighting an uphill battle with a bunch of stubborn band-mates to get creative control of the band (and finally giving up on that fight after 20 years) and joining something (Brian's Band) which would already be a happening thing.

Carl's 2001 choice:  Casino or Concert Hall?

Carl was the musical leader of the Beach Boys band, though. He picked and rehearsed the musicians. The band, as presented in the 1980s and 1990s, was his vision. And people criticized it (and Carl!) at the time for doing only hits and being unambitious. And yet Carl kept doing it, and pushed for slick commercial projects (S&S and the Like a Brother album) over artier ones (Paley sessions).

People want to believe that Carl was some shining exemplar of the Beach Boys art. And certainly in the 60s and 70s he was. But the fact is, starting in the 1980s, he wholeheartedly supported and abetted Mike's traveling jukebox vision of the band. And he actively blocked Brian from doing anything more progressive.

[KittyKat]

Good points, but there's a big difference between fighting an uphill battle with a bunch of stubborn band-mates to get creative control of the band (and finally giving up on that fight after 20 years) and joining something (Brian's Band) which would already be a happening thing.

Carl's 2001 choice:  Casino or Concert Hall?

Brian has played a few casinos on his tours though not as many as the Beach Boys.  For some towns in America the local Indian casino is the only concert hall they have. The Beach Boys play something like over 100 shows a year so they play all kinds of places.  That's what made the difference for Carl was the number of shows the Beach Boys played.  I don't have any idea how much money Carl had but he wasn't a songwriter so he didn't get royalties like Brian and playing with the Beach Boys for over 100 shows a year would have paid more bills than playing thirty or forty shows a year with Brian. 

[Jcc]

Perhaps I should have phrased it: "County Fair or Concert Hall"

I understand what you're saying about the band being "Carl's baby" in the 1980's and 1990's, but isn't it possible that Carl would have wanted to play more esoteric stuff but knew the band wouldn't go along with it?  Carl was the big compromiser of the family.  He probably saw his role as being the guy who put together the "Greatest Hits" shows but always kept the band true to the music.   If he couldn't get the band to play more of the rarities, or do a "Pet Sounds Live" he could at least insure that they respected the music and played it the way it ought to be played.

Otherwise those dancing cheerleaders in the 90's might have morphed into strippers before the end of the decade... 

[HeyJude]

I would imagine a lot of things factored into what Carl supported or attempted to advocate for when it came to the band and the setlist. In Carl's defense, it seems like the culture of the audiences and the media coverage of the band was such that there was less celebration and "coolness" in the nerdy aspects of BB fandom, like "Smile" and championing Dennis' solo work, and all of that sort of stuff. There have always been die-hard fans. But I think there wasn't the same apparent openness to more varied setlists from the fans in Carl and the band's view in, say, 1991 or whatever.

Part of the reason the 2012 setlist has featured a nice selection of "rarities" is that the band is now aware of the popularity of their less-obvious hits. Carl or Al or whoever probably couldn't have convinced Mike to sing "Marcella" in 1990.

I think Carl also didn't get a chance to see the type of huge fan appreciation that Brian got for his solo tours. Carl has been quoted in interviews lamenting how the band could do a short, stinker of a show and fans still loved it. He also dealt with the fans who screamed "Barbara Ann" and went on a beer break while they performed "Angel Come Home" or "Livin' with a Heartache" or, in 1988 when they tried to add "This Whole World", etc.

I can only guess, but I would doubt Carl ever didn't want to do more varied setlists. I think he believed, rightly or wrongly, that such setlists wouldn't go over well. Also, it seems in later years he did abdicate some of the leadership role to Mike in terms of organization and whatnot. This eventually created a bit of a rift apparently between he and Al as described in Jon Stebbins' and David Marks' book.

[Amanda Hart]

I think Carl also didn't get a chance to see the type of huge fan appreciation that Brian got for his solo tours. Carl has been quoted in interviews lamenting how the band could do a short, stinker of a show and fans still loved it. He also dealt with the fans who screamed "Barbara Ann" and went on a beer break while they performed "Angel Come Home" or "Livin' with a Heartache" or, in 1988 when they tried to add "This Whole World", etc.

I can only guess, but I would doubt Carl ever didn't want to do more varied setlists. I think he believed, rightly or wrongly, that such setlists wouldn't go over well. Also, it seems in later years he did abdicate some of the leadership role to Mike in terms of organization and whatnot. This eventually created a bit of a rift apparently between he and Al as described in Jon Stebbins' and David Marks' book.

I think Carl's perception of the fans plays into this. I've read stories from people meeting Carl before shows and telling him how much they loved a song he wrote, to which he would reply something like, "Oh, I love that song too, but tonight's more of a meat and potatoes show." He was just trying to give the people what they wanted. I'm sure it was frustrating too, for him to pour his soul into singing some '70s gem, only to look out into a mostly disengaged crowd.

[Wirestone]

Well, but saying "I love that song" to a devoted fan is just the same as playing "meat and potatoes" sets to casual fans. You're giving them what they want to hear in either case.

What we don't know is what Carl actually felt. And people want to give him the benefit of the doubt, which I understand. But the fact is, he had the opportunity to play deep cuts -- it's not like Mike would have seriously begrudged him a couple of obscure tunes -- and didn't do it. He had the opportunity to push for cool new music on record, but he didn't do that either.

At a certain point, it's not what's in our hearts that matters. It's what we do. And Carl didn't follow through. Simple as that.