Did Brian's use of session musicians hurt the Beach Boys popularity?

[filledeplage]

"Did Brian's use of session musicians hurt the Beach Boys popularity?"

No, because back then, no-one knew and fewer cared.

Agreed, Andrew.

I appreciate that the Wrecking Crew story is being told today, not because of any BB role they played, but, the role they  played in the music industry during those years, in general.  It is interesting to see the number of "greats" who emerged from that group of session musician, such as Glenn Campbell, Leon Russell, Herb Alpert (I think) etc.

Given the restrictve demands via contract, it would have been impossible to tour, learn and master new arrangements worthy of recording quality given their time constraints. Their hallmark remains their vocal blended style and lyric-musical composition concepts, which captured followers for over 50 years.

Back then it was the industry standard, but, the book and movie are told from "their" (Wrecking Crew) perspective.  And given credibility, accordingly. 

[SoulfulOlmanSunSh1ne]

Of course the Beach Boys are arguably one of the best and most critically and commercially accepted and respected American bands of the rock era. But I really can't help thinking that a lot of the reason why the average person doesn't look at them as "revolutionary" like bands such as the Beatles or Led Zeppelin is because they were not ever really known for playing their own instruments. The fact that none of them (except Brian) are ever individually credited for much at all. You never see any of them individually on any lists for Greatest (Drummer, Guitarist, Songwriter) which kinda leads me to believe that even tho the music itself may be respected, that they as a band in all are not universally accepted as a huge band (like the Beatles are). The Beatles did of course use session musicians but all the drums, bass, and guitar and production techniques were done by them. Or any other band really, I just say the Beatles because of their extensive popularity with basically everyone. But do you know what I mean? Do you agree?

No.  I doubt the audience they were playing to in the sixties even cared.  As far as today is concerned, The Wrecking Crew is still highly respected by music fans and it's understood what they brought to the records of The Beach Boys and many of their contemporaries.  It would be ridiculous to assume that music fans think less of these bands because they utilized the best musicians available to them to enhance their records.  As far as casual music fans, you can file them under the first group of folks I spoke of.  Most casual fans don't spend time dissecting who played what on "Wouldn't It Be Nice".  They either enjoy the song or they don't.

This is right along the lines of what I was going to say.

But on a separate note to the original post, that points to a larger issue with musical appreciation - that its limited to playing instruments or singing on the track. Most people don't know or care about the production side of music (which now is like non-existent). The Beach Boys are amazing because of Brian's superb arranging and producing. They could have had any reasonably talented bands playing in the studio and have been just fine.

[Jukka]

I don't know if it hurt their popularity back in the day, but it sure kept me from giving their music a chance for years. When I was younger, I thought that real rock bands play on their own records. Actually I still think that way, but it doesn't keep me from loving the Beach Boys anymore.

Anyway, I don't think session musicians hurt their mass appeal, but the hipster/cred thing is another thing. The age of rock virtuosos was dawning, and I'd figure guys who didn't play on their albums weren't thought of very highly. And weren't there some articles asking in a negative sense if The Boys are "just Brian's puppets" or something?

[guitarfool2002]

The history of the session musicians is one of my favorite topics, I enjoy researching and discussing and everything else about all those musicians who played on some of my favorite records. The old joke is something about having a list of favorite drummers and they were all named Hal Blaine...and this continues to become more accurate as I'm listening to those Top 40 songs I used to hear on "Hot Hits 98" WCAU in Philly in the early-to-mid 80's (the last great era of top 40 radio culture). I'm hearing guitar solos that were some of my favorites, some very influential music which my young ears knew they liked very much but my brain had no idea who these guys were.

Now as I've read more on this stuff, a lot of those amazing solos and parts were played by - no surprise - the same core groups of on-call session guys, and some of the same names who are on my favorite 60's records too! Amazing. The same guy named Louie Shelton who played that amazing Monkees' "Valleri" solo is also playing on the J5's "I Want You Back", Boz Skaggs' "Lowdown" and that solo I used to hear on MTV and the radio: "Hello" by Lionel Richie. Then to find out another session guy - Steve Lukather - who played that awesome funk rhythm guitar all over the Thriller album is also ripping that solo on "Let's Get Physical" and literally dozens of other famous 80's chart hits and soundtrack songs.

Many, many more examples of this can be found, but these are just a few notable decade-spanning examples for the sake of the discussion and the main point:

If the record is one you enjoy, if you get inspiration from it, if there is something about it that just feels good for no reason other than it just feels good when you hear it, then the people making that record did something right in the process. The decisions made which led to that record hitting your ears and getting into your soul, possibly, were the right ones made at exactly the right time. getting that kind of result can be like hitting the lottery, considering how many really, *really* good and talented people are working to reach that same goal and competing with each other for that mythical "hit record". And when someone does get a hit record that lasts, that feels good, all of that, the decisions made in the process were correct.

And ultimately, if the record works on many levels, or even more basic of an emotion if you just *like* that record when you hear it, does it matter all that much if the guy you see drumming on stage wasn't the guy who played it in the studio? If that were the standard applied, a majority of hits we hear from the 60's would be disqualified...actually take that into the 70's, 80's, 90's, and beyond, because it isn't always a case of the guys on the album cover making every note on the record. With digital editing and correction tools, not to mention drum samples and the like, it is even less at this point. If it ever was.

My point is if the record is one you enjoy, it really doesn't matter and if the record is great, perhaps the decision to use certain musicians over others was the right one for that specific situation. And the results would serve to back that up.

I think what hurt the Beach Boys popularity more than featuring studio players on certain tracks was the Beach Boys themselves at various points in their career. The classic records will always be the strongest and most durable part of their legacy and popularity, as well they should.

[filledeplage]

The history of the session musicians is one of my favorite topics, I enjoy researching and discussing and everything else about all those musicians who played on some of my favorite records. The old joke is something about having a list of favorite drummers and they were all named Hal Blaine...and this continues to become more accurate as I'm listening to those Top 40 songs I used to hear on "Hot Hits 98" WCAU in Philly in the early-to-mid 80's (the last great era of top 40 radio culture). I'm hearing guitar solos that were some of my favorites, some very influential music which my young ears knew they liked very much but my brain had no idea who these guys were.

Now as I've read more on this stuff, a lot of those amazing solos and parts were played by - no surprise - the same core groups of on-call session guys, and some of the same names who are on my favorite 60's records too! Amazing. The same guy named Louie Shelton who played that amazing Monkees' "Valleri" solo is also playing on the J5's "I Want You Back", Boz Skaggs' "Lowdown" and that solo I used to hear on MTV and the radio: "Hello" by Lionel Richie. Then to find out another session guy - Steve Lukather - who played that awesome funk rhythm guitar all over the Thriller album is also ripping that solo on "Let's Get Physical" and literally dozens of other famous 80's chart hits and soundtrack songs.

Many, many more examples of this can be found, but these are just a few notable decade-spanning examples for the sake of the discussion and the main point:

If the record is one you enjoy, if you get inspiration from it, if there is something about it that just feels good for no reason other than it just feels good when you hear it, then the people making that record did something right in the process. The decisions made which led to that record hitting your ears and getting into your soul, possibly, were the right ones made at exactly the right time. getting that kind of result can be like hitting the lottery, considering how many really, *really* good and talented people are working to reach that same goal and competing with each other for that mythical "hit record". And when someone does get a hit record that lasts, that feels good, all of that, the decisions made in the process were correct.

And ultimately, if the record works on many levels, or even more basic of an emotion if you just *like* that record when you hear it, does it matter all that much if the guy you see drumming on stage wasn't the guy who played it in the studio? If that were the standard applied, a majority of hits we hear from the 60's would be disqualified...actually take that into the 70's, 80's, 90's, and beyond, because it isn't always a case of the guys on the album cover making every note on the record. With digital editing and correction tools, not to mention drum samples and the like, it is even less at this point. If it ever was.

My point is if the record is one you enjoy, it really doesn't matter and if the record is great, perhaps the decision to use certain musicians over others was the right one for that specific situation. And the results would serve to back that up.

I think what hurt the Beach Boys popularity more than featuring studio players on certain tracks was the Beach Boys themselves at various points in their career. The classic records will always be the strongest and most durable part of their legacy and popularity, as well they should.

GF2002 - brilliant and to the point. If you enjoy the music, the rest is of little consequence. It is too bad that there is still a double standard for high profile people.  Private individuals can mess up, learn and grow as humans;  icons can't. 

They are robbed in a certain sense of that experience because it ends up as "news" to be debated ad nauseum by the self-righteous in society.  They are mortals, like the rest of us; but, with an immortal gift of music they shared. 

Their "blending method" of vocals and composition/lyrics, is what sets them apart, more than who played the "accompaniments." 

[Jon Stebbins]

I think the broad brush Beach Boys/Wrecking Crew association that so many lazy writers have perpetuated is sickening. They take one well-worn anecdote like when Hal relates after being asked if Dennis had a problem being replaced by him in the studio and Hal replies, no, in fact "he hired me" to play on his solo album. Then it is automatically projected that Hal was the drummer on Pacific Ocean Blue. But if you go through the sessions tapes one by one to fact check that...it turns out Hal played on one POB track, or maybe one and a half. The Wrecking Crew movie touts I Get Around as a Wrecking Crew session, yeah I guess if Dennis (drums), Carl (guitar), Al (bass), Brian (keyboards) are Wrecking Crew then its true. The Wrecking Crew book lists Surfer Girl as a Wrecking Crew session, not a single WC musician on that one. These are newly created historical documents that have false information that fans use to (in their mind) learn from. I don't know how many times I've told people that Dennis is the drummer on Don't Worry Baby or Wendy or When I Grow Up To Be A Man or Dance Dance Dance or You're So Good To Me and people argue that it can't be him because he never played on anything after the second album. But yeah, if you listen to the session its him. Carl is on guitar on like 80% of the Beach Boys recorded work. The whole Beach Boys replaced by session players meme needs to be dialed down, waaaay down. yes the Crew played on a number of classic Beach Boys sessions, GV's, Rhonda, Cal Girls, Pet Sounds...they deserve all the credit in the world for the sessions they played on. But get f'n real about it if you're serious. The Beach Boys, as musicians, created the majority of the guitar, bass, drums and keyboards on their classic body of work. Period.

[JohnMill]

"Did Brian's use of session musicians hurt the Beach Boys popularity?"

No, because back then, no-one knew and fewer cared.

Agreed and add to that to this day few people care about that stuff.  We on this forum are the exceptions to the rule not the majority.  The majority only cares if the music sounds good and obviously The Beach Boys have a treasure trove full of hit records.

[Emdeeh]

Growing up with the BBs gave me a different perspective. Back in the early days of the BBs, we fans KNEW that the Beach Boys played their own instruments. I was also aware that Brian had started using some of the Wrecking Crew on the mid-'60s albums, but also that Carl was playing on many of those recordings, and aware that the BBs started playing on their own recordings post-Smile. I read all the fine print on their albums -- still do.

[oldsurferdude]

i think Brian's loss of voice made a bigger dent in the band's popularity.

Totally agree. This would make excellent fodder for a thread.

[filledeplage]

I think the broad brush Beach Boys/Wrecking Crew association that so many lazy writers have perpetuated is sickening. They take one well-worn anecdote like when Hal relates after being asked if Dennis had a problem being replaced by him in the studio and Hal replies, no, in fact "he hired me" to play on his solo album. Then it is automatically projected that Hal was the drummer on Pacific Ocean Blue. But if you go through the sessions tapes one by one to fact check that...it turns out Hal played on one POB track, or maybe one and a half. The Wrecking Crew movie touts I Get Around as a Wrecking Crew session, yeah I guess if Dennis (drums), Carl (guitar), Al (bass), Brian (keyboards) are Wrecking Crew then its true. The Wrecking Crew book lists Surfer Girl as a Wrecking Crew session, not a single WC musician on that one. These are newly created historical documents that have false information that fans use to (in their mind) learn from. I don't know how many times I've told people that Dennis is the drummer on Don't Worry Baby or Wendy or When I Grow Up To Be A Man or Dance Dance Dance or You're So Good To Me and people argue that it can't be him because he never played on anything after the second album. But yeah, if you listen to the session its him. Carl is on guitar on like 80% of the Beach Boys recorded work. The whole Beach Boys replaced by session players meme needs to be dialed down, waaaay down. yes the Crew played on a number of classic Beach Boys sessions, GV's, Rhonda, Cal Girls, Pet Sounds...they deserve all the credit in the world for the sessions they played on. But get f'n real about it if you're serious. The Beach Boys, as musicians, created the majority of the guitar, bass, drums and keyboards on their classic body of work. Period.

Jon - that is probably correct, as well.  But, really, I only look back to my own voyage with the music, seeing them live at 14.  What did I know? They sounded great onstage; they sang well.  It is now, so long after the fact, that this whole "sessions story" which should be told, has emerged.  I have not read the book but saw the film which featured a section with Cher as a representative of what she and Sonny did and how it related to their work.  I liked that they told the story of who the NY music scene ending up in LA.  That was interesting to me, now.  Not then. There was a war, and all sorts of important stuff.  Who had the time, or the inclination?  Passing algebra was more on the radar, for me.

Beyond the individual Session Musician politics, which seems to have also emerged, it is of no consequence.  And, I do believe that the BB's did a chunk of the work.  The session musicians want their story told.  Right now the Boys are "hot" and they want "in."  And their story should be "told" but, not, "embellished."

The core BB fans, were teens in the 1960's and it seems to me that they were more concerned about the "product" (the song) and not the "process" (the studio) and at this point, it is interesting, but not as "material," I don't think, as some would have it.  The sound was coming out of a 2" speaker on AM radio.  It just wasn't that sophisticated for teens in the 60's.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

I don't see what I matters that no one knew "back then" if it's come to be an accepted "fact" in this day and age that The Beach Boys were not a real band and the wrecking crew played on everything! I mean, people still believe this! Plus, we're talking about if it affected their legacy or not! We're not asking if it stopped OSD from buying any of their albums back in the day (which, of course it didn't). But there are also a lot of folks my parent's age who did scoffedf at The Beach Boys back in the day as sh*tty musicians and Brian's puppets. In fact, they're still saying such things today and it's almost impossible to sway them with facts.

[filledeplage]

I don't see what I matters that no one knew "back then" if it's come to be an accepted "fact" in this day and age that The Beach Boys were not a real band and the wrecking crew played on everything! I mean, people still believe this! Plus, we're talking about if it affected their legacy or not! We're not asking if it stopped OSD from buying any of their albums back in the day (which, of course it didn't). But there are also a lot of folks my parent's age who did scoffedf at The Beach Boys back in the day as sh*tty musicians and Brian's puppets. In fact, they're still saying such things today and it's almost impossible to sway them with facts.

It is difficult to get my head around any notion that the BB's are a "fake" band.  It seems to be accepted that they played live gigs from the get-go.  How can anyone substantiate otherwise? Is there tweaking done by the studio and record company?  Of course, to maximize the effects.  I know zero about the industry.  But I do know fans, older than me, who have never stopped supporting their music, live or buying LP's.  I sat at a Wrecking Crew screening where there was an average age of 60+ and who seemed more interested in the historic part they played "pun intended" in music, "in general" and not the Beach Boys, "in particular." This looked like an "old hippie" crowd, singing with ALL the music, not just the Boys. 

The emerging theory is that they are must be all frauds. 

Every musician whose production including any Session Musicians is a fake?

Sorry, I can't subscribe to that theory.

[Cabinessenceking]

The Beatles did of course use session musicians but all the drums, bass, and guitar and production techniques were done by them.

George Martin was the producer, not the Beatles.  They would have been lost without him.

Much guitar was done by Carl and Dennis did organ. The problems was that the bass parts were much harder to record than The Beatles bass lines and Brian was not really the bass man, Bruce was and he was good but not proficient. Brian was doing all the recording in big takes, so he could not play. I wonder why Al was not doing rythem more... Was he less available than Carl?

[Jon Stebbins]

The Beatles did of course use session musicians but all the drums, bass, and guitar and production techniques were done by them.

George Martin was the producer, not the Beatles.  They would have been lost without him.

Much guitar was done by Carl and Dennis did organ. The problems was that the bass parts were much harder to record than The Beatles bass lines and Brian was not really the bass man, Bruce was and he was good but not proficient. Brian was doing all the recording in big takes, so he could not play. I wonder why Al was not doing rythem more... Was he less available than Carl?

Al plays bass on way more Beach Boys classics than either Brian or Bruce. Catch A Wave, Little Saint Nick, Fun Fun Fun, Don't Worry Baby, I Get Around, All Summer Long, Little Honda, Wendy, Don't Back Down, When I Grow Up To Be A Man, She Knows Me Too Well, You're So Good To Me are just some of the Beach Boys recordings that feature Al on bass. In fact he played bass on more early BB's stuff than guitar. The reason is that Brian played keyboards on most of that stuff leaving the bass duties available to Al during the tracking sessions.

[NHC]

This whole myth about the Beach Boys not playing their own instruments on the records, blah blah blah, is so tiresome and also maddening because so many people believe it. it also begs the question - who played them on stage? Hal Blaine and Carole Kay in masks?  Yes, we know they used session players s the recording progressed,, but not nearly as early on or in the numbers some believe. As to the Beatles, obviously they were more experienced players by the time they became the Beatles, and did put a little more emphasis on the standard "rock band" instruments in the mix well before they got to the orchestration.  Someone said somewhere, years ago, have no recollection who or where I read it, that the main difference between the Boys and the Beatles was that if you pulled the Beatles' voices out in front of the mix a bit you'd have the Beach Boys sound.  i can see - or hear - that to a degree. But as a couple of posters here have said, their instruments were not overpowering in style or flash (except for perhaps Paul the frustrated lead guitarist playing every note on his bass), with George being one of the tastiest lead man ever. Short little solos, a couple of hot licks, and back to the verse. Perfect, the emphasis on quality not quantity.

[Lonely Summer]

This whole myth about the Beach Boys not playing their own instruments on the records, blah blah blah, is so tiresome and also maddening because so many people believe it. it also begs the question - who played them on stage? Hal Blaine and Carole Kay in masks?  Yes, we know they used session players s the recording progressed,, but not nearly as early on or in the numbers some believe. As to the Beatles, obviously they were more experienced players by the time they became the Beatles, and did put a little more emphasis on the standard "rock band" instruments in the mix well before they got to the orchestration.  Someone said somewhere, years ago, have no recollection who or where I read it, that the main difference between the Boys and the Beatles was that if you pulled the Beatles' voices out in front of the mix a bit you'd have the Beach Boys sound.  i can see - or hear - that to a degree. But as a couple of posters here have said, their instruments were not overpowering in style or flash (except for perhaps Paul the frustrated lead guitarist playing every note on his bass), with George being one of the tastiest lead man ever. Short little solos, a couple of hot licks, and back to the verse. Perfect, the emphasis on quality not quantity.

Yes! That is the kind of playing I like! Jeff Baxter said "anybody can shred", what's important is playing what is right for the song. The Beatles and Beach Boys records are perfect examples of that philosophy.

[MBE]

I think the broad brush Beach Boys/Wrecking Crew association that so many lazy writers have perpetuated is sickening. They take one well-worn anecdote like when Hal relates after being asked if Dennis had a problem being replaced by him in the studio and Hal replies, no, in fact "he hired me" to play on his solo album. Then it is automatically projected that Hal was the drummer on Pacific Ocean Blue. But if you go through the sessions tapes one by one to fact check that...it turns out Hal played on one POB track, or maybe one and a half. The Wrecking Crew movie touts I Get Around as a Wrecking Crew session, yeah I guess if Dennis (drums), Carl (guitar), Al (bass), Brian (keyboards) are Wrecking Crew then its true. The Wrecking Crew book lists Surfer Girl as a Wrecking Crew session, not a single WC musician on that one. These are newly created historical documents that have false information that fans use to (in their mind) learn from. I don't know how many times I've told people that Dennis is the drummer on Don't Worry Baby or Wendy or When I Grow Up To Be A Man or Dance Dance Dance or You're So Good To Me and people argue that it can't be him because he never played on anything after the second album. But yeah, if you listen to the session its him. Carl is on guitar on like 80% of the Beach Boys recorded work. The whole Beach Boys replaced by session players meme needs to be dialed down, waaaay down. yes the Crew played on a number of classic Beach Boys sessions, GV's, Rhonda, Cal Girls, Pet Sounds...they deserve all the credit in the world for the sessions they played on. But get f'n real about it if you're serious. The Beach Boys, as musicians, created the majority of the guitar, bass, drums and keyboards on their classic body of work. Period.

Amen

[lance]

It seems to be a losing battle. I mean, people who like the Beach Boys, who are 'fans' all know it's true, but the rest of the world--casual fans and non-fans are simply not going to be swayed. There is simply a lot of (false) evidence stating that the Beach Boys did not/could not play. If you look on Beach Boy threads on other sites you find the myth not only perpetuated but stuck to in the face of testimony by experts like Jon Stebbins. The Beach Boys made some GREAT records. The only way people can really accept the greatness amid the cheese that is the Beach Boys is by rationaliziing it by saying, "well, they didn't play on the records' or 'Brian Wilson is the genius, the rest are just along for the ride and have no talent(as if being the greatest harmony vocal group of ALL FUCKING TIME means 'no talent.') It's sad and despicable but I'm afraid this myth will outlive us all.

[Jon Stebbins]

There used to be a fairly ingrained myth that Dennis Wilson was the "least talented" of the Beach Boys. More recently and more ingrained there was a myth that David Marks was no more than a face on an album cover...and that he had nothing to do with the genesis of the Beach Boys. Now nearly everyone is saying how essential Dave is to this reunion, what a great musician he is, and how happy they are for him. A majority of people used to tell me he was a joke and basically nothing. Misplaced perceptions can change when strong evidence is presented to the contrary. The truth is the truth.

Dennis Wilson = second best composer/arranger/producer in the Beach Boys
David Marks = best musician in the Beach Boys
Beach Boys = played the instruments on the majority of their hits and classic material

These are facts

[bgas]

There used to be a fairly ingrained myth that Dennis Wilson was the "least talented" of the Beach Boys. More recently and more ingrained there was a myth that David Marks was no more than a face on an album cover...and that he had nothing to do with the genesis of the Beach Boys. Now nearly everyone is saying how essential Dave is to this reunion, what a great musician he is, and how happy they are for him. A majority of people used to tell me he was a joke and basically nothing. Misplaced perceptions can change when strong evidence is presented to the contrary. The truth is the truth.

Dennis Wilson = second best composer/arranger/producer in the Beach Boys
David Marks = best musician in the Beach Boys
Beach Boys = played the instruments on the majority of their hits and classic material

These are facts

What about Brian as a musician? Seems he plays alot of instruments well, so what makes Dave better?

[ontor pertawst]

Yeah, you'd think just his vocal kung fu would trump the admirable surf guitar. Marks is certainly the funnest, most entertaining musician on this tour, tho! I love that he gets the chance to throw all those licks in! I can't even make out what the other 34907853957 guitars are doing, but his has serious character!

[Emdeeh]

Keep on bustin' those myths, Jon!

[keysarsoze001]

I think really the perception comes from Pet Sounds and the build-up to SMiLE, where a lot of the press coverage emphasized that Brian was the mastermind with his dynamo team of musicians and the Boys were his backup singers, essentially. It probably doesn't help to one degree or another that the albums which followed immediately after SMiLE fell apart were pretty sparse in terms of production, relatively speaking. To my mind, the biggest mistake of Smiley Smile is that it included the elaborate "Heroes and Villains" and "Good Vibrations" alongside songs which sounded like the guys were just messing around in the sandbox and didn't realize they were being recorded. Then of course Wild Honey and Friends were also sort of homespun affairs by and large. Awesome albums, no question, but just plain more laid back and less ambitious than PS or "Good Vibrations". So if you go from complicated drum and percussion parts, for instance, on "I'm Waiting for the Day" or "Good Vibrations", and then get an album with a bunch of bongos and nothing else, it's hard for your first instinct not to be "Oh, well, that's cause they don't have Hal on this. Obviously Dennis can't play." I'm not saying that's accurate, cause it's not. The Boys were perfectly capable of playing their instruments, but they weren't amazing instrumentalists; they were amazing singers who also played instruments pretty well.

Personally, I feel that if SMiLE had been completed and THEN they released something like Friends, that would've served them well, because it would have felt more like a purposeful shift in direction. Basically the same kind of deliberate scaling-back found in the productions of Plastic Ono Band or McCartney after the symphony of Abbey Road. Or Paul Simon's self-titled coming after Bridge Over Troubled Water. Or Dylan's John Wesley Harding after Blonde on Blonde. Instead, because SMiLE was unfinished after all that anticipation, presumably the perception was that these guys didn't know what they were doing in the studio without having the cadre of session guys featured on Today! through Pet Sounds.

[Jon Stebbins]

There used to be a fairly ingrained myth that Dennis Wilson was the "least talented" of the Beach Boys. More recently and more ingrained there was a myth that David Marks was no more than a face on an album cover...and that he had nothing to do with the genesis of the Beach Boys. Now nearly everyone is saying how essential Dave is to this reunion, what a great musician he is, and how happy they are for him. A majority of people used to tell me he was a joke and basically nothing. Misplaced perceptions can change when strong evidence is presented to the contrary. The truth is the truth.

Dennis Wilson = second best composer/arranger/producer in the Beach Boys
David Marks = best musician in the Beach Boys
Beach Boys = played the instruments on the majority of their hits and classic material

These are facts

What about Brian as a musician? Seems he plays alot of instruments well, so what makes Dave better?

Someone with as much time logged as a Beach Boys fan as you would obviously know that Brian is a great arranger, composer, producer, leader, harmony, melody genius, but not very advanced on any instrument...and when I say "musician" I am referring to the level of sophistication on one's instrument. David is a trained musician (Berklee School of Music, Boston Conservatory) he's been tutored by masters (Vincente Gomez, Morris Mizrahi, Avrim David, Margaret Chaloff, Alan Silvestri) and is a near virtuoso in styles ranging from classical to jazz to blues to rock. Surf music is child's play to him, literally, since he had it mastered as a 12 year old. No way I'm saying Dave is in Brian's league as a creator, but as a musician on his instrument he's the best in the band. Beach Boys fans have seen very little of his ability. As a musician Bruce would be number two, also a very good musician.

[ontor pertawst]

Do you mean the school in Boston? That's Berklee. I think grads actually spend up to 30% of their time correcting misspellings of it. If only they knew that when it was founded!