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Author Topic: Carl queers the pitch in the mid '90s  (Read 17192 times)
Mikie
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« Reply #25 on: May 05, 2012, 08:47:30 AM »

I don't see why Carl would have objected to the current reunion tour. I think he would have welcomed it. He would have insisted on perfection and been the band leader he'd always been.
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« Reply #26 on: May 05, 2012, 10:27:33 AM »

I don't think this would be called a reunion tour if Carl were alive. I think Brian would have rejoined the touring band at some point before now.
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« Reply #27 on: May 05, 2012, 10:39:09 AM »

Here's some great reading about the period
http://smileysmile.net/OLDlibrary/timeline.html
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« Reply #28 on: May 05, 2012, 10:42:49 AM »

Dr Lenny, I haven't read that book yet but have heard about rumours that Carl was an alcoholic - is there any truth in this at all? Or did he just drink the same as every rock and roll star would have?
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« Reply #29 on: May 05, 2012, 10:47:35 AM »

Dr Lenny, I haven't read that book yet but have heard about rumours that Carl was an alcoholic - is there any truth in this at all? Or did he just drink the same as every rock and roll star would have?

As far as I know, Carl was a pretty active social drinker late in his life.
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« Reply #30 on: May 05, 2012, 11:08:36 AM »

Dr Lenny, I haven't read that book yet but have heard about rumours that Carl was an alcoholic - is there any truth in this at all? Or did he just drink the same as every rock and roll star would have?

In one of the songs on the Beckley/Lamm/Wilson album. he sings "I quit smoking but I drink too much", which might lend some support to the rumours -- and given the addictive personalities in his family, and the way that kind of thing seems to be at least partly hereditary, it would be very surprising if he wasn't.

That said, if he was, he was far more functional than most -- I've never heard any stories of alcohol impacting his behaviour adversely either onstage or off.
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« Reply #31 on: May 05, 2012, 11:18:06 AM »

From Peter Ames Carlin's book Catch A Wave :

"[But] Carl's death had changed something. For the first time in his life, Brian no longer had to measure up to - or feel guilty about disappointing - his family's expectations. It was terrible to feel so alone in the world. But in a strange way, the death of his brother had also made him free."

I've always interpreted this as having outlived his family, Brian felt that he could undertake all the projects he wanted to without worrying what they (especially Carl) would think, i.e. touring Pet Sounds, Smile and the subsequent solo albums. He felt that he could stand up to Mike, being pretty much estranged from the corporate side of BRI, but he definitely always sought the approval of Carl, leader and musical director in his lifetime of the touring band and keeper of  the flame. The sadness at the loss of his brothers cannot be measured, but from that point on, Brian felt he could take more charge of his own destiny than he could've done previously.



I kinda agree. But I don't think about Pet Sounds and Smile - btw I don't remember reading that Brian wanted to tour PS in the 90s but Bruce - but about stuff that doesn't live up to Brian's/the Beach Boys' name like GIOMH (the recordings, not the songs, those are good). Or even doin' nothing but just take his time off. In some way Carl's death gave Brian the freedom to be as lazy as he wanted to be without having to think about the Beach Boys. That is not to say that Brian would be in any way happy about Carl passing on. It's just that with him (and Audree) the last "symbols" were gone of what was responsible in some way for Brian's problems - his family.


And I agree that with Carl the Beach Boys probably wouldn't have broken up and therefor there would've been no need for a reunion. In fact I don't know if Brian would even have left the band which doesn't mean they would have a active recording carreer. I doubt that.   
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« Reply #32 on: May 05, 2012, 11:19:07 AM »

Carl drank excessively during his marriage breakup.  The Australian gig in '78 is proof.

I do remember that shortly after Carl passed away, Mike stated during an interview that he was surprised Carl continued to drink in spite of going through radiation treatments for Cancer.
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« Reply #33 on: May 05, 2012, 11:28:17 AM »

i don't want this to sound like i'm casting stones for i used to be able to really put the brew away myself. but i started to have the pleasure of meeting the group after shows and hotel rooms starting in 1975. carl was always very friendly but usually had a big bottle of wine with him or near him when i was around. i never even raised an eyebrow when seeing that. heck, he even gave me a glass or two at times.
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« Reply #34 on: May 05, 2012, 11:29:40 AM »

Carl drank excessively during his marriage breakup.  The Australian gig in '78 is proof.

I do remember that shortly after Carl passed away, Mike stated during an interview that he was surprised Carl continued to drink in spite of going through radiation treatments for Cancer.


I remember an inteview with Mike in which he said Carl liked to drink a lot of wine. And he was talking about the 90s
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« Reply #35 on: May 05, 2012, 11:39:04 AM »

Of course this was before the lawsuits and his solo career got going:

March, 1999. Brian tells a reporter he'd be in favor of a Beach Boy reunion:


Still, for all of the positive things happening in his life right now, there is one thing missing: The Beach Boys. It's a complex relationship made all the more distant by Carl's passing. And it's clear that it's something Brian would like to see patched up. "It's pretty much out of touch at this point," he says of his relationship with Love, Jardine and Bruce Johnston. "Because Carl died and, of course, that kind of loused us up a little bit. But it's OK." Wilson says he would welcome a reunion with his former bandmates, adding he has "a hunch" that one day they will perform together again. "There's no plan," he says. "but if all goes well, I'll do it."
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I, I love the colorful clothes she wears, and she's already working on my brain. I only looked in her eyes, but I picked up something I just can't explain. I, I bet I know what she’s like, and I can feel how right she’d be for me. It’s weird how she comes in so strong, and I wonder what she’s picking up from me. I hope it’s good, good, good, good vibrations, yeah!!
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« Reply #36 on: May 05, 2012, 01:17:17 PM »

Actually I've often thought that on the LPs from 15 Big Ones through MIU Carl sounds positively drunk. From LA on though he sounds sober and powerful again. I think his worst days were over by then.
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« Reply #37 on: May 05, 2012, 04:25:17 PM »

Actually I've often thought that on the LPs from 15 Big Ones through MIU Carl sounds positively drunk. From LA on though he sounds sober and powerful again. I think his worst days were over by then.

Yeah, I totally agree with you on that. On "Good Timin" from L.A. (Light Album) he sounds great again, but on stuff like "Talk to Me" or "Sweet Sunday Kinda Love" he sounds pretty inebriated. And actually, even though it was an L.A. session, he sounds pretty sleepy on "California Feelin'."
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« Reply #38 on: May 05, 2012, 05:05:00 PM »

Carl is a fascinating cat.  So much going on behind the beard, and very zealous about his privacy and maintaining a separate public face, apparently.  I've only heard a few "behind the scenes" stories (as compared to the other guys), but they're all very intriguing. 

The one thing I always think about in the mid '90s period is -- look at all the brouhaha around the reunion now, and how much work and time commitment is required, and that's for something that has been thrown together fairly quickly.  It may have simply been a commitment of added stress Carl did not want to take on, particularly if he was starting to feel seriously ill.  If you're the guy that's got to deal with the X factor of a new album and dealing with the politics of having Brian back in the band again, and possibly filling a mediator/quality control role, it may just not have been how he wanted to spend part of the last few years of his life.

The closest I ever got to "getting" Carl was hearing a snippet of an outtake from the "campfire sessions" for their 1988 TV show.  I don't know if it's been booted or not.  The guys are all hanging around shooting the sh*t.  Carl says very little.  Mike and Brian start reminiscing about "Luau."  Brian says something about the song, Mike responds with something like, "I thought it was pretty interesting," and Carl suddenly pipes up, with authority:  "I thought it was pretty shitty."

It seemed to bring him into focus for a second.  He stayed affably quiet and in the background, went along with what was going on, until the moment came that something wasn't to his liking, he just shut it down, bluntly.
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« Reply #39 on: May 05, 2012, 09:12:55 PM »

The closest I ever got to "getting" Carl was hearing a snippet of an outtake from the "campfire sessions" for their 1988 TV show.  I don't know if it's been booted or not.  The guys are all hanging around shooting the sh*t.  Carl says very little.  Mike and Brian start reminiscing about "Luau."  Brian says something about the song, Mike responds with something like, "I thought it was pretty interesting," and Carl suddenly pipes up, with authority:  "I thought it was pretty sh*tty."

It seemed to bring him into focus for a second.  He stayed affably quiet and in the background, went along with what was going on, until the moment came that something wasn't to his liking, he just shut it down, bluntly.

Poor "Luau" Sad
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« Reply #40 on: May 05, 2012, 10:33:18 PM »

Actually I've often thought that on the LPs from 15 Big Ones through MIU Carl sounds positively drunk. From LA on though he sounds sober and powerful again. I think his worst days were over by then.
Agreed. On "Love You" (the middle eight of "I'll Bet He's Nice" and his utterly gorgrous vocals on "The Night Was So Young," he sounds inebriated. On "Adult Child," it is worse, especially "Everybody Wants to Live."
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« Reply #41 on: May 06, 2012, 12:14:36 AM »

Carl has usually been portrayed as the band member that worked the closest with Brian in the studio. WIBN had a different take on things, because Landy had to make Carl look as bad as possible in that book. I wouldn't be surprised if Carl was reluctant to put Brian in control in the studio again after the disaster that was 15 Big Ones/Love You. These were supposed to be the albums that re-established the group in the 70's album market. Instead, they pretty much sealed the fate of the band that had become an oldies act.
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« Reply #42 on: May 06, 2012, 12:28:43 AM »

Regarding the drinking, somebody on here once told a story about seeing the group in concert 1996(I believe), and that Carl's cup was continuously being filled with beer for the entire concert. I hope I got the details right, or at least the overall gist of the story.
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« Reply #43 on: May 06, 2012, 12:54:36 AM »

...after the disaster that was 15 Big Ones/Love You.

No argument with 15 B/O's, but Love You is no disaster, by a long shot(a really, really long shot).
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« Reply #44 on: May 06, 2012, 01:09:05 AM »

...after the disaster that was 15 Big Ones/Love You.

No argument with 15 B/O's, but Love You is no disaster, by a long shot(a really, really long shot).

Love You was a disaster, not artistically but commercially.
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« Reply #45 on: May 06, 2012, 03:02:45 AM »

...after the disaster that was 15 Big Ones/Love You.

No argument with 15 B/O's, but Love You is no disaster, by a long shot(a really, really long shot).

Love You was a disaster, not artistically but commercially.

Agreed to some extent, although US top 60/UK top 30 isn't too bad going from a commercial point of view, is it (happy to be corrected)?

I get that Love You didn't set the world on fire back in the day and haul in mountains of cash, but 35 years on we can probably forgo the economic rationalism and assess the album on it's artistic merit.

And Love You did not seal the band's fate as an oldies act.
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« Reply #46 on: May 06, 2012, 04:08:12 AM »

Carl has usually been portrayed as the band member that worked the closest with Brian in the studio. WIBN had a different take on things, because Landy had to make Carl look as bad as possible in that book. I wouldn't be surprised if Carl was reluctant to put Brian in control in the studio again after the disaster that was 15 Big Ones/Love You. These were supposed to be the albums that re-established the group in the 70's album market. Instead, they pretty much sealed the fate of the band that had become an oldies act.

I think it was Carl who sent Brian off the frontline to the side behind a piano.

Some of Carl's views may seem harsh, but also realistic.
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« Reply #47 on: May 06, 2012, 04:28:25 AM »

...after the disaster that was 15 Big Ones/Love You.

No argument with 15 B/O's, but Love You is no disaster, by a long shot(a really, really long shot).

Love You was a disaster, not artistically but commercially.

Agreed to some extent, although US top 60/UK top 30 isn't too bad going from a commercial point of view, is it (happy to be corrected)?

I get that Love You didn't set the world on fire back in the day and haul in mountains of cash, but 35 years on we can probably forgo the economic rationalism and assess the album on it's artistic merit.

And Love You did not seal the band's fate as an oldies act.

The way I see things, an album that peaks at #53 is a commercial disaster, it seems to me that quite a lot of newer fans who had gotten into the Boys via Endless Summer would have been majorly put out by the one-two punch of 15 Big Ones & Love You - 15 Big Ones being just plain bad and Love You being way to weird to be a true commercial success.
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« Reply #48 on: May 06, 2012, 05:17:48 AM »

...after the disaster that was 15 Big Ones/Love You.

No argument with 15 B/O's, but Love You is no disaster, by a long shot(a really, really long shot).

Love You was a disaster, not artistically but commercially.

Agreed to some extent, although US top 60/UK top 30 isn't too bad going from a commercial point of view, is it (happy to be corrected)?

I get that Love You didn't set the world on fire back in the day and haul in mountains of cash, but 35 years on we can probably forgo the economic rationalism and assess the album on it's artistic merit.

And Love You did not seal the band's fate as an oldies act.

The way I see things, an album that peaks at #53 is a commercial disaster, it seems to me that quite a lot of newer fans who had gotten into the Boys via Endless Summer would have been majorly put out by the one-two punch of 15 Big Ones & Love You - 15 Big Ones being just plain bad and Love You being way to weird to be a true commercial success.

Are you sure that anything that made the US Top 100, or UK Top 30, some 35 years ago was a "commercial disaster"? You could say poor performer, or even "average", but not "commercial disaster" (let's reserve that for SIP).

As far as the 1-2 punch thing goes; we know after 15 B/Os, Capitol slipped in Live in London (off the back of 15 biggies chart "performance") - generating sales and interest in the BBs aimed at the the Endless Summer set, and prior to Love You.

Yeah, Love you is left-center - from a personal perspective, I bought it unheard in '83, when I was 12, having bought the Beach Boys greatest hits, Surfin' Saf/USA vinyl twofer, followed by PS/Smiley vinyl twofer. 

I got it from a cockney geezer, flogging punch-outs in downtown Brisbane so he could get back to London for Christmas.  Went home and threw it on the 3-in-1, sucked it in and loved it like any other BB product you can name (bar SIP) - so, I don't get why Love You could be called a disaster; by any definition.
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« Reply #49 on: May 06, 2012, 06:42:34 AM »

You know, over the years I've read a LOT about The Beach Boys in most of the books, magazine and newspaper articles, message boards, and other journalism/web sites/blogs on the Internet, and this is the very first time I've read someone suggesting that Carl Wilson was inebriated during the recording of a song(s). I must have missed something somewhere. Would someone please direct me to a source for this "info"?
« Last Edit: May 06, 2012, 07:04:57 AM by Mikie » Logged

I, I love the colorful clothes she wears, and she's already working on my brain. I only looked in her eyes, but I picked up something I just can't explain. I, I bet I know what she’s like, and I can feel how right she’d be for me. It’s weird how she comes in so strong, and I wonder what she’s picking up from me. I hope it’s good, good, good, good vibrations, yeah!!
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