Carl queers the pitch in the mid '90s

[b00ts]

It is a bit odd that Carl is the one who called off the mid-1990s album sessions, and if I recall correctly, that Carl was partially responsible for the delay in the release of the Pet Sounds Sessions box set.

I seem to remember reading that the whole band, including Carl, had reservations about the material on Pet Sounds and SMiLe. This is in contrast to the popular view that Mike was the only one who had a problem with the material. After things really went south for Brian post-SMiLe, Brian was lucky to have Carl as a stalwart supporter, following through for him on production (Surfs Up) mixdown (Love You) and all sorts of other areas that Brian was no longer interested in or capable of handling.

Fast forward to the 1990s... Carl had tried a commercially unsuccessful solo career the previous decade, and then fell back in with the Beach Boys Touring Machine, apparently all but giving up on the more artistic side of things. Brian's memoir clearly was very hurtful to Carl and Audree, and Carl had to enter a protracted legal battle to save his brother. By the mid-90s, Brian was out of Landy's clutches and ready to make an album to potentially cap off the Beach Boys' career.

Casual fans sometimes ask me why the Paley/Was sessions never came to fruition for The Beach Boys, and they typically assume that it had something to do with Mike. When I tell them that Carl walked out on the sessions, they are usually surprised. Between Brian's mooted Pet Sounds Symphonic Tour (tabled by Carl, who had reservations about Brian's ability to sing, and likely also Brian's ability to tour), his new material for The Beach Boys, and his abilities as a producer, Carl seems to have cast a vote of "no confidence" in all of these areas.

I also read somewhere - and I am not sure if this is apocryphal - that Carl was partially responsible for the delay in the release of the Pet Sounds Sessions, as in his view, it glorified Brian at the expense of the rest of the group.

Was all of this mainly due to Carl being hurt and exhausted by the Landy era and Brian's memoir? I can understand Carl feeling betrayed when he had put so much effort into helping Brian over the years, only to be attacked in his brother's memoir, and to then be forced to go to court to get Brian away from Landy. Clearly, Carl always loved and protected his brother, and I can only imagine how stressful these events must have been.

I would also imagine that dealing with his cancer diagnosis and treatment made things a lot tougher for Carl emotionally around this time. It seems like Mike, Al, and Bruce were ready to play nice with Brian and let bygones be bygones, but Carl was not in the right place for it emotionally. Then again, perhaps he really just did not have confidence in Brian's abilities anymore and didn't want to see his brother embarass himself.

Looking back, it is certainly understandable if Carl, in spite of his love for Brian, was bitter towards him. I would venture that as Brian's brother, bandmate, and longtime helper, Carl had more of a reason to harbor these feelings than anyone else in the band, including Mike. He also likely had the most vested interest in protecting Brian from an ignominious public spectacle, which he may have expected when Brian broached the idea of doing a Pet Sounds tour.

In "Catch a Wave" by Peter Ames Carlin, he describes Brian and Carl getting together for the Super Bowl before Carl passed. It seems like their relationship was just on its way to becoming 'normalized' again.

I imagine that if Carl had lived another decade, these feelings would have passed, and he would have been extraordinarily proud of Brian's achievements. It is normal to us now that Brian is an established solo artist who releases albums every couple of years and tours regularly, but in the mid-1990s, nobody would have bet on Brian finishing a single live show or making a new album of original material more than once every decade.

I feel a little bit skeevy writing all of this, as Carl was clearly a private person and this delves somewhat into his personal relationship with Brian. However, as a fan who is interested in the group's changing dynamic throughout their career, this period is of great interest, and I think we can discuss it in a respectful, objective manner. Carl was a peacemaker between various factions throughout the band's career, yet by the mid-90s, he was the one who tabled their new album.

Some of my facts may be off, and if so, I'm expecting our resident experts to jump in. I am wondering if anyone else has some insight to share about this period?

[Pretty Funky]

The q word?

Board filter?

[Wirestone]

Some accounts from the time ...

http://smileysmile.net/OLDlibrary/timeline.html

There are some good older threads about this, too.

[Iron Horse-Apples]

Interesting. Families are most certainly complicated things, and our heroes are all but human.

[b00ts]

The q word?

Board filter?

This is a colloquialism that has nothing to do with homosexuality; it is the original meaning of the word "queer."

[Wirestone]

Also, the best quote from Brian ever:

"I just had to get through that goshdarn trial! I totally went crazy over that! Lots of stress! But I got through it. That's how it works. You've got hurdles, you know? A hurdle to me represents lots of mental effort and extreme mental stress. It's like a woman having a baby. What stress! To go through that! And for that big baby to come out of that little vagina. NOBODY KNOWS HOW THAT'S DONE! Someone can try to explain it, but you see the woman afterwards and she's cool. With artistic things, it's the same thing. Art doesn't come easy. It never did!"

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

This is a colloquialism that has nothing to do with homosexuality; it is the original meaning of the word "queer."

^ Yup.

Anyway...
 I've always felt that Carl's decision making was affected by his illness...he was starting to look 'off' around Stars & Stripes, so the timeline would fit.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Also, the best quote from Brian ever:

"I just had to get through that goshdarn trial! I totally went crazy over that! Lots of stress! But I got through it. That's how it works. You've got hurdles, you know? A hurdle to me represents lots of mental effort and extreme mental stress. It's like a woman having a baby. What stress! To go through that! And for that big baby to come out of that little vagina. NOBODY KNOWS HOW THAT'S DONE! Someone can try to explain it, but you see the woman afterwards and she's cool. With artistic things, it's the same thing. Art doesn't come easy. It never did!"

Love it.

[b00ts]

Interesting. Families are most certainly complicated things, and our heroes are all but human.

Yes, and I can certainly sympathize with what I imagine to be Carl's feelings during this era. As fans, we think "get it together, you're The Beach Boys, time is running out!" But reality intrudes, as it does for all of us. Life, death, and human relationships are seldom wrapped up in a neat package the way we'd like.

Wirestone, thanks for the link. The earlier discussions sort of render this thread redundant.

[Shady]

Also, the best quote from Brian ever:

"I just had to get through that goshdarn trial! I totally went crazy over that! Lots of stress! But I got through it. That's how it works. You've got hurdles, you know? A hurdle to me represents lots of mental effort and extreme mental stress. It's like a woman having a baby. What stress! To go through that! And for that big baby to come out of that little vagina. NOBODY KNOWS HOW THAT'S DONE! Someone can try to explain it, but you see the woman afterwards and she's cool. With artistic things, it's the same thing. Art doesn't come easy. It never did!"

Brilliant

[b00ts]

Also, the best quote from Brian ever:

"I just had to get through that goshdarn trial! I totally went crazy over that! Lots of stress! But I got through it. That's how it works. You've got hurdles, you know? A hurdle to me represents lots of mental effort and extreme mental stress. It's like a woman having a baby. What stress! To go through that! And for that big baby to come out of that little vagina. NOBODY KNOWS HOW THAT'S DONE! Someone can try to explain it, but you see the woman afterwards and she's cool. With artistic things, it's the same thing. Art doesn't come easy. It never did!"

Love it.

Yes, this quote sums up Brian's worldview neatly! It is one of my favorites.

[Wirestone]

Wirestone, thanks for the link. The earlier discussions sort of render this thread redundant.

Not really! This is one of my favorite periods of BB history -- so much seemed possible, and then it ... didn't.

I think in retrospect, we'll see the 95-98 period as a turning point for the band. It was what finally sent Brian off on a solo career, for one thing, which he never entirely managed during the 80s. It led to Al being exiled. And, of course, Carl passed.

You also had this huge pile of work by Brian and Andy that was basically abandoned. Some of it has surfaced, but a lot of prime unreleased material remains. It's some of Brian's finest solo writing, and it disappeared at the same time.

Likewise, you see Melinda becoming an important factor in Brian's creative life. She had stayed somewhat hands-off during the mid-90s, but she clearly decided by the end of this time that BW's career needed more concerted direction.

Just think of where all the principals in this story were in 1994 -- and then where they all were in 1999. It's an astonishing time of change. Things then more or less stayed static for a dozen years. Then a lot of stuff started to shift last year, and here we are today!

[JohnMill]

I always heard the story about the delay regarding PSS came down to the fact that Mike took his sweet time in penning his introduction for the booklet?  Incorrect?

[Pretty Funky]

The q word?

Board filter?

This is a colloquialism that has nothing to do with homosexuality; it is the original meaning of the word "queer."

Oh I didn't mean it in that context, just trying to understand the title of the thread.

More of a 'lost in translation' thing I guess.

[onkster]

So--upon reading that old timeline--Brian was interested in using Jellyfish as his touring band as an alternate to the 'Mints?

Wow. That, too, could have been amazing in a totally different way.

But sadly: Jellyfish was as contentious as the Beach Boys themselves, so that couldn't have lasted long. (Hell, even The Grays barely lasted any time at all.)

[Steve Mayo]

This is a colloquialism that has nothing to do with homosexuality; it is the original meaning of the word "queer."

^ Yup.

Anyway...
 I've always felt that Carl's decision making was affected by his illness...he was starting to look 'off' around Stars & Stripes, so the timeline would fit.

carl didn't look "right" at the big red boat concert in may 1995. one could tell by just looking at him something was wrong.

[Mikie]

Somebody's hung up on the word "queer". Ultra sensitive, aren't we?? The word Queer as defined: "Strange or odd from a conventional viewpoint; unusually different. A questionable nature or character".

"Carl was partially responsible for the delay in the release of the Pet Sounds Sessions, as in his view, it glorified Brian at the expense of the rest of the group".

That's the first I ever heard/read that. Mike was primarily responsible for the year and 1/2 delay because of the bridge of Wouldn't It Be Nice and for what was written in the essay in the book - that he wasn't given enough credit. My understanding was that Carl just didn't like one of the mixes or mastering of one of the songs.

[b00ts]

The q word?

Board filter?

This is a colloquialism that has nothing to do with homosexuality; it is the original meaning of the word "queer."

Oh I didn't mean it in that context, just trying to understand the title of the thread.

More of a 'lost in translation' thing I guess.

Oh, OK. Here is the definition:

queer the pitch   Vrb Phrs. To interfere with or spoil chances of success, usually deliberately.

Although regarding the last part, I am not positing that Carl deliberately wanted to spoil the group's chances of success.

[Cam Mott]

As I remember there was concern from the whole band [maybe] for some of the recorded and written material. Also as I remember many Capitol projects were delayed at that time, not just the BBs' project; something about financial trouble or being bought by EMI or some sort of company wide problem.

[Jay]

This is a colloquialism that has nothing to do with homosexuality; it is the original meaning of the word "queer."

^ Yup.

Anyway...
 I've always felt that Carl's decision making was affected by his illness...he was starting to look 'off' around Stars & Stripes, so the timeline would fit.

carl didn't look "right" at the big red boat concert in may 1995. one could tell by just looking at him something was wrong.

Does anybody hasppen to have any pictures of that show that can be posted? Or maybe just some pictures in general from 1995-96?

[Emdeeh]

I also read somewhere - and I am not sure if this is apocryphal - that Carl was partially responsible for the delay in the release of the Pet Sounds Sessions, as in his view, it glorified Brian at the expense of the rest of the group.

My understanding is that Carl's concern was the quality of some of the mixes (probably minor things), not the "liner" notes.

Landy did a lot of damage to the brothers' relationship by keeping Brian apart from the family. They were just beginning the reconciliation process at the time in question.

[cablegeddon]

I seem to remember reading that the whole band, including Carl, had reservations about the material on Pet Sounds and SMiLe.

Yes Tony Asher has said on numerous occasions that during the recording of Pet sounds, as soon as Brian left the room, the entire band started to trash talk the songs.

[Iron Horse-Apples]

I seem to remember reading that the whole band, including Carl, had reservations about the material on Pet Sounds and SMiLe.

Yes Tony Asher has said on numerous occasions that during the recording of Pet sounds, as soon as Brian left the room, the entire band started to trash talk the songs.

Not Dennis. He states quite plainly that his career in the Beach Boys was all a game to him, until he attended the tracking session for God Only Knows. That's when he "got it". Bit of a life changing moment apparently.

[D409]

From Peter Ames Carlin's book Catch A Wave :

"[But] Carl's death had changed something. For the first time in his life, Brian no longer had to measure up to - or feel guilty about disappointing - his family's expectations. It was terrible to feel so alone in the world. But in a strange way, the death of his brother had also made him free."

I've always interpreted this as having outlived his family, Brian felt that he could undertake all the projects he wanted to without worrying what they (especially Carl) would think, i.e. touring Pet Sounds, Smile and the subsequent solo albums. He felt that he could stand up to Mike, being pretty much estranged from the corporate side of BRI, but he definitely always sought the approval of Carl, leader and musical director in his lifetime of the touring band and keeper of  the flame. The sadness at the loss of his brothers cannot be measured, but from that point on, Brian felt he could take more charge of his own destiny than he could've done previously.

[Autotune]

From Peter Ames Carlin's book Catch A Wave :

"[But] Carl's death had changed something. For the first time in his life, Brian no longer had to measure up to - or feel guilty about disappointing - his family's expectations. It was terrible to feel so alone in the world. But in a strange way, the death of his brother had also made him free."

I've always interpreted this as having outlived his family, Brian felt that he could undertake all the projects he wanted to without worrying what they (especially Carl) would think, i.e. touring Pet Sounds, Smile and the subsequent solo albums. He felt that he could stand up to Mike, being pretty much estranged from the corporate side of BRI, but he definitely always sought the approval of Carl, leader and musical director in his lifetime of the touring band and keeper of  the flame. The sadness at the loss of his brothers cannot be measured, but from that point on, Brian felt he could take more charge of his own destiny than he could've done previously.

Good post. When the current Reunion was starting to happen some people wondered if this would take place were Carl alive.

And regarding Brian's musical relationship with Carl... not the most accurate source to be sure, but I remember an interview with Hal Blaine in BBFUN (mid 80's). He talked about how much Carl was the person in the group Brian argued the most with (and probably his trusted consultant, may I add) and he'd seen them come to deep disagreements that with most people normally would end up in a fight... But not with these two.

The 1968 that was posted here in the beginning of the year illustrates Brian's loving regard for his baby brother.

I can easily imagine that being portrayed as an alcoholic and suggesting he was responsible for Dennis' death in the WIBN book must have felt like a stab.