No Carl or Dennis on new album...

[Jim V.]

So it seems like neither Carl nor Denny will be featured at all on the boys new album. I can't say I'm all that surprised that Dennis isn't on it, but I'm kinda surprised that didn't use any previously released Carl vocals on the project.

As far as Denny goes, I pretty much understand that he has been gone for a long while and it probably wouldn't make much sense to overdub decades-old things of his for this new album, and that it'd probably be a better idea to just release the cream of the crop of his material on an archival set. However, I think recording one of his unreleased pieces like "I've Got a Friend" might have been a cool thing to do.

I gotta say that I kinda respect it that they basically recorded this new album from the ground up and didn't piece together a new album for old sessions and whatnot, at least as far as we know.

However, they do have a few cool things with Carl from their last recording sessions with him that were pretty strong, and I'm surprised they didn't use them. There was a partial lead from Carl on "Dancing the Night Away" which sounded beautiful, and I'm also sure he was somewhere in the harmony stack on "You're Still a Mystery", so that would've been two songs featuring Carl. And I wouldn't doubt that besides those two and "Soul Searchin'", there may have been a few other things the band worked on in 1995. I mean, all I would've done is finished things that they left unfinished from 1995, I wouldn't dig up old random Carl vocals and paste them on new things, but I think finishing what they started in '95 would've been ok.

At the end of the day, I hope they just picked what they considered what was the best material, without worrying who was on it, or who wrote it, but honestly I think "Dancing the Night Away" deserved to be completed and released, and I think that "You're Still a Mystery" should be considered for their upcoming box set or other archival releases.

[Emdeeh]

I would love to see a proper release of the Beach Boys' version of "Soul Searchin'" on an archival release!

[JohnMill]

I would love to see a proper release of the Beach Boys' version of "Soul Searchin'" on an archival release!

Me too and after some thought my feeling on the issue is that Carl and Dennis unreleased tracks belong on the upcoming archival release from the band, not the new album.

[punkinhead]

I would love to see a proper release of the Beach Boys' version of "Soul Searchin'" on an archival release!

Me too and after some thought my feeling on the issue is that Carl and Dennis unreleased tracks belong on the upcoming archival release from the band, not the new album.

I have a feeling we'll be hearing from Carl and Dennis on some archival material. Wouldn't it be something if each member had their own disc to assemble to make a complete boxed set? Like Brian puts in his favorite tunes (which changes everyday, but we get unreleased version of them...I know, we've got a love of em)...But let the guys use whatever they want and encourage everything to be unreleased and featuring themselves. I know I'm dreaming too much...cuz Bruce couldn't fill a whole cd with his BB-involvement unless we get sessions of all his stuff (Bluebirds, Nearest, Deidre, Disney Girls, Tears, Ten Years Harmony, HCTN, KTSA album, etc.) Let Carl and Dennis' disc be chosen by the rest of the guys...like their personal collaborations---Brian with Dennis: Oh Lord, Stevie, City Blues, etc. Carl with Dennis: Angel Come Home (alt.), Mike with Dennis: 10,000 Years, Only With You (track only), Sound of Free, etc. 
Brian with Carl- original Good Timin', Lay Down Burden (if any work exists), Life is For the Living, Soul Searchin, etc.


just a thought

[Wirestone]

I am relieved.

The current lineup deserves the opportunity to be the sole band members featured on the new release.

Old sessions of Carl largely wouldn't have worked because:

1.) Soul Searchin' was already on a BW solo album

2.) Al already released Waves of Love (and Carl's voice is poor on it anyway). Ditto for Don't Fight the Sea.

3.) Carl is inaudible on You're Still A Mystery

4.) Carl sings all of two lines on Dancin' the Night Away, and the entire song was used as a starting point for "How Could We Still Be Dancin," which was, again, already released.

5.) All of this work came from sessions based on the Paley material, largely produced by Don Was. Neither are involved in the current project (and Paley has been persona non grata in the BW camp for years now, so I'm sure they're not eager to share any more songwriting royalties).

Looking at this all, featuring Carl would have involved duplicating material already released, using substandard songs (Waves of Love is really not very good) or getting into interpersonal conflicts. Easier, and better, to do something entirely new.

[Jim V.]

Carl sings all of two lines on Dancin' the Night Away, and the entire song was used as a starting point for "How Could We Still Be Dancin," which was, again, already released.

Never heard this, Wirestone. I usually really dig what you are saying on here, so I'm inclined to believe you, but I've never heard of "Dancin' the Night Away" having anything to do with "How Could We Still Be Dancin'" besides, well, the presence of the word "dancin'."

Where'd you read/hear this? I'm kinda intrigued. And I still stand by the fact that they should have at least used that song, if no other Carl work, despite the conflicts, as they used Paley material on two of Brian's solo albums even after the Paley sessions kinda wound down and Joe Thomas and then ultimately Darian and co. became the new sheriffs in town, so to speak.

[b00ts]

I am relieved.

The current lineup deserves the opportunity to be the sole band members featured on the new release.

Old sessions of Carl largely wouldn't have worked because:

1.) Soul Searchin' was already on a BW solo album

2.) Al already released Waves of Love (and Carl's voice is poor on it anyway). Ditto for Don't Fight the Sea.

3.) Carl is inaudible on You're Still A Mystery

4.) Carl sings all of two lines on Dancin' the Night Away, and the entire song was used as a starting point for "How Could We Still Be Dancin," which was, again, already released.

5.) All of this work came from sessions based on the Paley material, largely produced by Don Was. Neither are involved in the current project (and Paley has been persona non grata in the BW camp for years now, so I'm sure they're not eager to share any more songwriting royalties).

Looking at this all, featuring Carl would have involved duplicating material already released, using substandard songs (Waves of Love is really not very good) or getting into interpersonal conflicts. Easier, and better, to do something entirely new.

Hey Wirestone,

I am wondering about "You're Still a Mystery." I could have sworn that the chorus lead vocal is Carl... and I  hear him on the backing vocals in the chorus.

Also, why is Paley persona non-grata? I know he hasn't been involved with Brian for a while, but is there a specific reason?

[punkinhead]

I am relieved.

The current lineup deserves the opportunity to be the sole band members featured on the new release.

Old sessions of Carl largely wouldn't have worked because:

1.) Soul Searchin' was already on a BW solo album

2.) Al already released Waves of Love (and Carl's voice is poor on it anyway). Ditto for Don't Fight the Sea.

3.) Carl is inaudible on You're Still A Mystery

4.) Carl sings all of two lines on Dancin' the Night Away, and the entire song was used as a starting point for "How Could We Still Be Dancin," which was, again, already released.

5.) All of this work came from sessions based on the Paley material, largely produced by Don Was. Neither are involved in the current project (and Paley has been persona non grata in the BW camp for years now, so I'm sure they're not eager to share any more songwriting royalties).

Looking at this all, featuring Carl would have involved duplicating material already released, using substandard songs (Waves of Love is really not very good) or getting into interpersonal conflicts. Easier, and better, to do something entirely new.

and why did Andy Paley have falling out?

plus, are there any recordings they could have Jeff Lynne come in and produce Free As a Bird/Real Love- like material? 

[punkinhead]

I am relieved.

The current lineup deserves the opportunity to be the sole band members featured on the new release.

Old sessions of Carl largely wouldn't have worked because:

1.) Soul Searchin' was already on a BW solo album

2.) Al already released Waves of Love (and Carl's voice is poor on it anyway). Ditto for Don't Fight the Sea.

3.) Carl is inaudible on You're Still A Mystery

4.) Carl sings all of two lines on Dancin' the Night Away, and the entire song was used as a starting point for "How Could We Still Be Dancin," which was, again, already released.

5.) All of this work came from sessions based on the Paley material, largely produced by Don Was. Neither are involved in the current project (and Paley has been persona non grata in the BW camp for years now, so I'm sure they're not eager to share any more songwriting royalties).

Looking at this all, featuring Carl would have involved duplicating material already released, using substandard songs (Waves of Love is really not very good) or getting into interpersonal conflicts. Easier, and better, to do something entirely new.

Hey Wirestone,

I am wondering about "You're Still a Mystery." I could have sworn that the chorus lead vocal is Carl... and I  hear him on the backing vocals in the chorus.

Also, why is Paley persona non-grata? I know he hasn't been involved with Brian for a while, but is there a specific reason?

Here Here!
I always thought Paley was the last great collaborator for Brian!


I can't count VDP in that ranking because he's collaborated with Brian all over the place since 1966....Smile, Sail On Sailor, Orange Crate Art (maybe not collab but did work well together), BWPS, The Waltz, That Lucky Old Sun to name a few.

[Jim V.]

I am relieved.

The current lineup deserves the opportunity to be the sole band members featured on the new release.

Old sessions of Carl largely wouldn't have worked because:

1.) Soul Searchin' was already on a BW solo album

2.) Al already released Waves of Love (and Carl's voice is poor on it anyway). Ditto for Don't Fight the Sea.

3.) Carl is inaudible on You're Still A Mystery

4.) Carl sings all of two lines on Dancin' the Night Away, and the entire song was used as a starting point for "How Could We Still Be Dancin," which was, again, already released.

5.) All of this work came from sessions based on the Paley material, largely produced by Don Was. Neither are involved in the current project (and Paley has been persona non grata in the BW camp for years now, so I'm sure they're not eager to share any more songwriting royalties).

Looking at this all, featuring Carl would have involved duplicating material already released, using substandard songs (Waves of Love is really not very good) or getting into interpersonal conflicts. Easier, and better, to do something entirely new.

Hey Wirestone,

I am wondering about "You're Still a Mystery." I could have sworn that the chorus lead vocal is Carl... and I  hear him on the backing vocals in the chorus.

Also, why is Paley persona non-grata? I know he hasn't been involved with Brian for a while, but is there a specific reason?

I'm not Wirestone, but I'm nearly positive that's Brian on the lead vocal for the chorus, with his sweetest lead vocal he had in a while by that point. He sounded really nice on that one.

[Camus]

With the chorus of You're Still A Mystery I've always heard it as Brian on the falsetto (You're still a mysteryyyyyyy) with Al and Bruce doing the "tell me your secrets" and Mike on the bass vocal.  I've never really heard Carl anywhere on this song.

[Mendota Heights]

With the chorus of You're Still A Mystery I've always heard it as Brian on the falsetto (You're still a mysteryyyyyyy) with Al and Bruce doing the "tell me your secrets" and Mike on the bass vocal.  I've never really heard Carl anywhere on this song.

That is what I hear as well, it is an awesome song - I have been listening to it for days now. I hope they release it somehow.

[Lonely Summer]

With the chorus of You're Still A Mystery I've always heard it as Brian on the falsetto (You're still a mysteryyyyyyy) with Al and Bruce doing the "tell me your secrets" and Mike on the bass vocal.  I've never really heard Carl anywhere on this song.

That is what I hear as well, it is an awesome song - I have been listening to it for days now. I hope they release it somehow.

Definately a great song that deserves release one of these days. Soul Searchin' has been released, but the original recording would be nice on the box set.

[Wirestone]

I don't even need to answer!

Yep, I've never heard Carl on "You're Still a Mystery," either. It's always been mainly Brian, with Mike on the "key" line, and Al pretty audible on backups.

VDP and Brian collaborated more than you think on OCA. Brian actually arranged the vocals on that album, even though he's not credited.

As for Andy, I've heard some things but nothing I can share publicly. He was out for awhile when Joe Thomas came in, then he came back in the early 2000s -- he even toured with Brian for a year or so. Then he was out again. They have worked together on a Spongebob thing since then, but it's not a close relationship.

Let's say it's complicated, and there are no clear villains or heroes here. Given Joe Thomas's return, Brian and Andy may be able to work together again someday too! And least they haven't sued each other.

A band member once told me that Brian has kind of a "dark cloud" around him when it comes to collaborators. That is, you're lucky to come out of the experience having created something good and still being friends with Brian and his circle. In the last half-century, possibly only Tony Asher, Stevie Kalinich and Scott Bennett have managed to work with BW and not have ill feelings follow them in some way.

[Iron Horse-Apples]

I'd even strike Tony Asher from that list.

[STE]

And Scott

[Runaways]

i think we're talking relative to other guys, so not Asher or Scott.  I imagine it has something to do with getting credit, i had no idea that a lot of songs came from paley.  Asher had problems with Brian's maturity but i don't think you'd ever hear him say he feels ill will towards brian.  And Scott is still by brian's side, not sure how he'd have ill will either.

[Autotune]

I am relieved.

The current lineup deserves the opportunity to be the sole band members featured on the new release.

Old sessions of Carl largely wouldn't have worked because:

1.) Soul Searchin' was already on a BW solo album

2.) Al already released Waves of Love (and Carl's voice is poor on it anyway). Ditto for Don't Fight the Sea.

3.) Carl is inaudible on You're Still A Mystery

4.) Carl sings all of two lines on Dancin' the Night Away, and the entire song was used as a starting point for "How Could We Still Be Dancin," which was, again, already released.

5.) All of this work came from sessions based on the Paley material, largely produced by Don Was. Neither are involved in the current project (and Paley has been persona non grata in the BW camp for years now, so I'm sure they're not eager to share any more songwriting royalties).

Looking at this all, featuring Carl would have involved duplicating material already released, using substandard songs (Waves of Love is really not very good) or getting into interpersonal conflicts. Easier, and better, to do something entirely new.

I agree entirely with your first statement. I'm relieved also that this is just a BB album: no guests, no old recordings, no covers, no classics reworked. Just a new album as it should be.

Now, you mention 2 things that leave me wondering:
1- can you confirm that Dancin' the night away turned into How Could we still be dancing? First time I heard that.
2- in another post you mention that Brian arranged the OCA vocals, though uncredited. Where did this info come from? As far as I know, it's all VDP's arrangements. Given Brian's talent for arranging and singing, and given his role in that album, it'd be strange if he did not come with a few ideas. But all I've heard and known about this is that Brian's singing VDP's notes. Never heard any of them state otherwise.

As for Paley's departure, a lot was said in this place back then. And some theories were... well coloroful. But the truth has not unearthed yet. But we know AGD knows the reason. Now do you know for sure? Because I'd like to know too.

[punkinhead]

A band member once told me that Brian has kind of a "dark cloud" around him when it comes to collaborators. That is, you're lucky to come out of the experience having created something good and still being friends with Brian and his circle. In the last half-century, possibly only Tony Asher, Stevie Kalinich and Scott Bennett have managed to work with BW and not have ill feelings follow them in some way.

What about VDP?
I'm guessing we won't include Jimmy Webb or Bernie Taupin since they did one song each.
How's about Russ Titelman? He's been here and there.
And would anyone suspect Danny Hutton to ever collab with Brian. I know they're good friends and all, but would Danny still be a bad influence (idk him as well).  But I know he sang on Message Man, and didn't Brian sing on a song of his that is referred to on the IJWMFTT doc? Or am I confused? I prolly am.

[punkinhead]

i think we're talking relative to other guys, so not Asher or Scott.  I imagine it has something to do with getting credit, i had no idea that a lot of songs came from paley.  Asher had problems with Brian's maturity but i don't think you'd ever hear him say he feels ill will towards brian.  And Scott is still by brian's side, not sure how he'd have ill will either.

Asher still has those feelings?

[punkinhead]

a bit off topic, but on topic of Brian with collaborators...and this is by no means a new idea, but if Brian can't get inspiration from no collaborator, perhaps he should just do what he did on GIOMH (which I know a lot of folks, especially here, don't care for)...but I myself really enjoy it....and really, I don't think it's the material that bugs fans, but more the vocals and lack of Brian's band's involvement.  
My idea which is based off the GIOMH album is to go back and listen to his past collaborations/songs that he's never released from Adult Child to early 80s/hamburger sessions to mid 80s with Gary Usher to anymore salvagable material from Sweet Insanity to Paley sessions and early Imagination sessions...I really think Brian could really work with those riffs and lyrics with Scotty or Van Dyke or J. Thomas or Paley or even Asher.
just a thought....

I could prolly come up with a track list of items I think are salvagable, but most Smilers usually ignore my fantasy track list.  

[Autotune]

a bit off topic, but on topic of Brian with collaborators...and this is by no means a new idea, but if Brian can't get inspiration from no collaborator, perhaps he should just do what he did on GIOMH (which I know a lot of folks, especially here, don't care for)...but I myself really enjoy it....and really, I don't think it's the material that bugs fans, but more the vocals and lack of Brian's band's involvement.  
My idea which is based off the GIOMH album is to go back and listen to his past collaborations/songs that he's never released from Adult Child to early 80s/hamburger sessions to mid 80s with Gary Usher to anymore salvagable material from Sweet Insanity to Paley sessions and early Imagination sessions...I really think Brian could really work with those riffs and lyrics with Scotty or Van Dyke or J. Thomas or Paley or even Asher.
just a thought....

I could prolly come up with a track list of items I think are salvagable, but most Smilers usually ignore my fantasy track list.  

GIOMH could have benefited from that good ol' autotune.

[pixletwin]

For the first time I reordered my Surf's Up playlist to regard SDT and TALOYF and replaced them with Fourth of July and Falling in Love... I couldn't believe how beautifully it elevated an already great album to beautiful. I bring this up because it made me want to hear WIBNTLA even more intensely. I have a feeling that with that it could even rival Pet Sounds.

Please. An Archival release with never before heard Carl/Dennis songs needs to be released.

[punkinhead]

For the first time I reordered my Surf's Up playlist to regard SDT and TALOYF and replaced them with Fourth of July and Falling in Love... I couldn't believe how beautifully it elevated an already great album to beautiful. I bring this up because it made me want to hear WIBNTLA even more intensely. I have a feeling that with that it could even rival Pet Sounds.

Please. An Archival release with never before heard Carl/Dennis songs needs to be released.

Come to think of it, Surf's Up is one of the few albums that has a love/ballad/romantic song on it...unless you count Disney Girls, but that's more about reminising. You can depend on Dennis to have a great love ballad on there (Lady/WIBNTLA) ...or not with 4th Of July/Sound of Free/I'm Going Your Way.....wow, even though Surf's Up is great, it could have been even better!

[runnersdialzero]

I reordered my Surf's Up playlist to regard TALOYF

Blasphemy!