Brian's problem's...again

[myonlysunshine]

You're welcome guys. There's a saying by Plato that says goes "there is only one good, which is knowledge, and one evil, which is ignorance." In the case of disability awareness, a little knowledge goes a long way.

In any case, I fail to see how Brian fits the diagnosis of Asperger's. Being a reclusive genius does not qualify one as having Asperger's Syndrome. Can anyone tell me what symptoms he has that fit the diagnosis? His social skills are fine, he has empathy. He doesn't display any tics. He's really not attached to routine as far as I can tell.

One does not have to have every symptom to have Asperger's Syndome, but those are the three big symptoms that most people with Asperger's almost always tend to display (especially the social skills thing and the lack of social and emotional reciprocity, which are the hallmarks of the disorder). He is obsessive with his music, but that alone doesn't qualify one as having Asperger's.

When I see Brian and read about him, I hear and see someone who has had a traumatic childhood (being abused by his dad), has stage fright, is occasionally prone to nervous breakdowns, has had severe substance abuse, (including probably taking some potent forms of speed), and has schizophrenia and tardive dyskinesia. These conditions have all been reported about Brian before, and I really don't see a problem with any of these diagnoses. They seem to fit the bill to me. Asperger's Syndrome is a stretch.

[KittyKat]

I don't think KittyKat's post was in particularly poor taste. Mental illnesses are notoriously poorly defined, and the DSM is a real minefield. The notion that Asperger's diagnoses are way too widespread is also not unusual -- part of an increasing and real societal trend to medicalize peculiar behavior.

Well, calling it trendy seemed to make light of the very real pain people feel because of various brain-wiring.  But I would agree that any sort of talk about what's going on in our brains and bodies is going to be limited by those same brains of ours.

I meant "trendy" in the sense that there have been media people labeling celebs as possibly having Asperger's, or in the case of Steven Spielberg, labeling himself as having Asperger's.  I confess I read celebrity gossip at times, so I have seen that discussed.  Someone here cited Elvis Presley, Tom Hanks, and Bill Gates as being possible "Aspies" most likely based on such speculative articles.  I can believe maybe Bill Gates, just maybe, but Elvis and Tom Hanks? I'm a little doubtful.  It seems distasteful to me that it became a pop psychology label applied to introverted, thoughtful, socially awkward people as potentially autistic spectrum.   Some of them could be, but there are normal variations in human personality that make people who they are.   I guess Henry David Thoreau and John Muir were potentially autistic spectrum, too.

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

I don't think KittyKat's post was in particularly poor taste. Mental illnesses are notoriously poorly defined, and the DSM is a real minefield. The notion that Asperger's diagnoses are way too widespread is also not unusual -- part of an increasing and real societal trend to medicalize peculiar behavior.

Well, calling it trendy seemed to make light of the very real pain people feel because of various brain-wiring.  But I would agree that any sort of talk about what's going on in our brains and bodies is going to be limited by those same brains of ours.

I meant "trendy" in the sense that there have been media people labeling celebs as possibly having Asperger's, or in the case of Steven Spielberg, labeling himself as having Asperger's.  I confess I read celebrity gossip at times, so I have seen that discussed.  Someone here cited Elvis Presley, Tom Hanks, and Bill Gates as being possible "Aspies" most likely based on such speculative articles.  I can believe maybe Bill Gates, just maybe, but Elvis and Tom Hanks? I'm a little doubtful.  It seems distasteful to me that it became a pop psychology label applied to introverted, thoughtful, socially awkward people as potentially autistic spectrum.   Some of them could be, but there are normal variations in human personality that make people who they are.   I guess Henry David Thoreau and John Muir were potentially autistic spectrum, too.

Fair enough.  I agree that diagnosing celebrities from afar is silly.

[Jim V.]

Asperger's Syndrome is being dropped next year from the DSM (psych diagnosis manual), according to sources on Google.  It may not even exist or be a true "disease" nor ever was (it was named and based on one German psychiatrist's casual observations and personal theories, over 50 years ago).  It was a fashionable trend, just like other diagnosis that were trendy at one time then fell out of favor.

No it isn't a "fashionable trend." I have Asperger's Syndrome. I was diagnosed as a young child as a high functioning autistic. I also am studying Educational Psychology and am currently training to be a transition specialist for those on the spectrum who are transitioning from high school to college, so I happen to know a lot about the disorder. Asperger's Syndrome is a real disorder and a real diagnosis. You are misinterpreting why it is being removed from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Disorders. It is simply being removed because studies have shown that it is not a distinct condition, separate from autism, as psychologists once thought. Rather, Asperger's just encompasses the highest functioning part of the spectrum. It is not a separate diagnosis from autism, rather it is merely a part of the overall spectrum, which includes all autism spectrum diagnoses. The plan is simply to remove the diagnosis and just call them all "autism spectrum disorders." That does not mean that the disorder or the disorders are not real, just that they are really just all manifestations of the same thing.

In any case, as someone who actually has the disorder and works with other people with Asperger's I really, really doubt that Brian has the disorder.

Thank y'kindly for this. While there is a tendency nowadays for some folks to read about something on the internet and then think themselves into believing they have it (and some not good doctors preying on that kind of behavior), things like Asperger's shouldn't be discredited or not taken seriously just because some folks self-diagnose a bit too often.

I got the same sh*t from some people after being diagnosed with something a few years back. Even some very close family members didn't buy it - I had either went out of my way to tell the doctor what she wanted to hear (hint: I didn't. Who wants to be told their wiring is a little off upstairs?) or I wasn't acting exactly like the exaggerated-for-TV character on whatever show who, in a sudden rage, stabbed his wife in the ass 72 times for breathing too loudly and then moments later began a 72 hour cookie binge while watching the entire Barney The Dinosaur series or whatever. Not everyone has the exact same symptoms to the exact same degree, and everyone is going to approach their symptoms a little differently. I was given the diagnosis and, above any other possibilities, it kinda made sense to me. Still, these folks didn't buy it. The symptoms are hard enough to work through day to day, I don't need people who have a poor understanding of the subject stressing me out further and making me feel worse by telling me I'm basically making sh*t up, y'know?

Anywayz. sry about the life story, just saying, yeah - I don't care for it when people want to discredit people on these things without really knowing them. I won't deny some people are wrongly diagnosed by a doctor looking to fatten their wallet, nor am I saying some people don't put on an act or think themselves into a condition, but consider giving each individual the benefit of the doubt, getting to know them better, and then deciding if they may be putting on an act or may have a tendency to self-diagnose themselves with horrible things every other day.

Right on runners. It is quite annoying when people quite close to me give me sh*t for taking medication or for sometimes mentioning that I have a certain condition. They'll say "oh, you own a house, have a job, have a beautiful girlfriend, stop being a whiner", but what they don't understand is these medical conditions have nothing to do with how your life is laid out. Like me for instance, I won't get too far into it, but if I go off my medication (which works quite well for me) I get horrible thoughts of dread and I become someone that I would not want to be around. It becomes hard for me to function. But some people will say "get over it, stop being a p*ssy". They don't understand that this isn't just something I can turn on and off. Someone might have it all, Brian Wilson for example, but if their coping mechanisms don't quite work right, it doesn't matter.

But on the other hand, the self diagnosis thing is QUITE out of hand. I've even had former friends who might have gotten into certain musicians we might have discuss on here, and all of the sudden they are like "hey man, I think I might be a paranoid schizophrenic" or "i've started hearing voices", or "wow, that's exactly the way I feel" after reading something about  Brian Wilson or Syd Barrett or what have you. It has gotten quite ridiculous, especially with the advent of the internet.

[Dunderhead]

I don't think anyone needs to have any excuse for their emotional and psychological pain. I see the classification of psychic disorders as more of a convenience than anything else. I was diagnosed with a few problems a couple of years ago, and even though I recognize that I have those symptoms, I personally don't buy into the whole notion of mental illness to begin with. I just don't think empirical psychology, and our scientific understanding of the human mind in general, are developed enough to justify the way we presently conceptualize mental illnesses.
If you have the symptoms of autism or aspergers, you shouldn't take it personally if people question the validity of that particular diagnostic category. I'm certainly not suggesting that someone diagnosed with aspergers doesn't have real burdens to bare, only that aspergers is a pretty fuzzy classification in the first place. It's a cross section of loosely related behaviors, so I'm not particularly sold on the basic idea that someone can say "So-and-so has aspergers" in the same way that you can say "so-and-so has a fractured rib".

Saying that, I just don't think aspergers is a convincing diagnosis of Brian Wilson to begin with, even putting all my scepticism about modern clinical psychology aside. Simply acknowledging that atypical symptoms can still be consistent with a aspergers diagnosis isn't enough given the fact that there are other mental illnesses by which those atypical symptoms are better explained. And that should really be the criterion here, not "is it possible that Brian Wilson has aspergers", because I suppose that it is possible, but there's no reason to be satisfied with that diagnosis when there are better ones to be had. And in this case, panic disorder, schizoaffective disorder, and bi-polar disorder all feel like much closer fits to the actual symptoms which have been observed in Brian's case.

[halblaineisgood]

Fishmonk, you just made a whole lot of sense.

[hypehat]

He might well have done, if you ignore that fact we have to call mental illnesses SOMETHING. It's necessary. It's not the medical professions fault that the public perception of mental illness is stunted.


Asperger's is a fucking ridiculous diagnosis of Brian Wilson. I should stress I'm not accusing anyone here of this IN ANY WAY WHATSOEVER (and that's not sarcasm), but the culture of self-diagnosis and ensuing bitching in certain corners of the internet really gets my goat. Mental illness is fucking serious, not playing Asperger's bingo with Syd Barrett or whatever and devaluing the issue amongst other people - the 'stop being a wimp' factor someone mentioned would be pacified to some extent if it wasn't the new 'NOBODY UNDERSTANDS ME' amongst teenagers - lots of kids I knew didn't, in hindsight, seem like the depressed people I know a few years later, like they were always happy, no social awkwardness, conservations peppy, hard to describe in words yet they seemed like normal bright kids with nothing 'hanging over them' (and STILL ARE). Yet they are the ones with cut marks on their wrists and thinking you're suicidally depressed (as opposed to, y'know, being suicidally depressed) and having to convince others of that fact just like I had to convince some other friends I had a passing interest in football seems profoundly f***ed up in context. Essentially, the public perception of mental illness is f***ed.

I'm probably not making much sense and have offended someone in the process *sips coffee, tries valiantly to awaken brain*