The Autotune Thread

[endofposts]

Thank you anazgnos, I appreciate that.  

Somebody clue in us ignorant and ill informed who despite all our efforts can't hear any autotune.  Explain to us mechanically how Autotune works, for instance i heard that a keyboard player plays the melody or something?

Somebody break it down for us exactly how they're pulling off the autotune that's on all Brian's vocals, so we can better understand.


Be warned though: After you do that, later this evening I'm going to sign on and introduce you to my friend Ockham.  It will not be pretty.

 

How they would "pull it off" is placing it going into the soundboard.  No one in the audience or on stage would see it.  You can Google "live vocal pitch correction" and see the options out there (and see video/audio of how the effects work); there are other brands besides autotune, so they can claim they're not using autotune but could use a different brand.  It doesn't involve anyone playing a keyboard, it's just an effect like the ones used for instruments or on the board in a recording studio, where knobs and sliders are used to contour the sound.

[guitarfool2002]

I'm not stepping into the debate, but the question was asked of how it works. I have a rackmount vocal processor with the original Antares Autotune, and can answer a few rudimentary questions, leaving the really techie stuff to the engineers on the board.

Autotune recognizes what we hear as pitches (notes) by analyzing the waveform, calculating the pitch of that waveform, and correcting it. It's a digital process, nothing mechanical about it. It can be adjusted fast which doesn't allow breath or vibrato to come out (and maxing this out is the T-Pain effect), or slow, so it corrects the pitch but leaves breath and vibrato and other vocal bends and all that as part of the sound.

Two parts to remember about Autotune are that you need to "program" it in a way depending on the key of the song. If it is in the key of C or A minor, for example, you would program all the notes of that scale telling it to trigger on and correct to those notes. If you have a melody that goes beyond the straightforward key, you can program those chromatic notes as well, and omit certain notes of the scale calling them blank notes so it won't correct everything and will sound more natural, and allow the melody to go in and out of tune ever so slightly.

Or, you could have the Autotune completely off except for a few notes, so the vocal can be natural on the majority of the melody notes being sung but if they have a hard time hitting a really high note, you could trigger the Autotune to only hit and correct that note up to pitch, leaving the others natural.

If Autotune is used "live", the singer's monitor mix would probably only have his/her actual notes audible while the audience's mix would have more of the Autotune signal, otherwise the singer would be hearing Autotune working in their monitor mix and try to pitch their voice to that, and it doesn't work as well.

And engineers should be able to get a fairly "natural" sound using Autotune, like compression which was designed to not be detected as an "effect" unless deliberately over-applying it or maxing it out is the desired effect.

My external Autotune rack unit is several years old now, and the effect itself is about 15 years old when it was developed for ProTools, so if anyone can shed any light on the newer developments or revisions, please do!

[desmondo]

So the question remains - what songs and where in them precisely does the Auto tune come in

I've had a little bit of SOS, SG and H&V so far and that hasn't been exactly scientific

Come on u B-Painers lets have it

[seltaeb1012002]

So the question remains - what songs and where in them precisely does the Auto tune come in

I've had a little bit of SOS, SG and H&V so far and that hasn't been exactly scientific

Come on u B-Painers lets have it

It's on his voice for the whole show.

The "offness" of it is more audible certain times than others. For instance, towards the end of the Surfer Girl bridge, you can hear the machine knock him down completely to the note below. If the pitch correction machine wasn't on it, it wouldn't be nearly as flat.

After listening to both shows (almost in their entirety) I find that there isn't one moment where they laid off the pitch correction. Choose any spot, and you'll notice a certain robotic quality about his voice.

[Autotune]

So the question remains - what songs and where in them precisely does the Auto tune come in

I've had a little bit of SOS, SG and H&V so far and that hasn't been exactly scientific

Come on u B-Painers lets have it

It's on his voice for the whole show.

The "offness" of it is more audible certain times than others. For instance, towards the end of the Surfer Girl bridge, you can hear the machine knock him down completely to the note below. If the pitch correction machine wasn't on it, it wouldn't be nearly as flat.

After listening to both shows (almost in their entirety) I find that there isn't one moment where they laid off the pitch correction. Choose any spot, and you'll notice a certain robotic quality about his voice.

I don't know man... He's sung flat, and that's not because of a machine pulling him down. Let us not fall into the extreme of blaming a pitch corrector every time he sounds too good

[seltaeb1012002]

So the question remains - what songs and where in them precisely does the Auto tune come in

I've had a little bit of SOS, SG and H&V so far and that hasn't been exactly scientific

Come on u B-Painers lets have it

It's on his voice for the whole show.

The "offness" of it is more audible certain times than others. For instance, towards the end of the Surfer Girl bridge, you can hear the machine knock him down completely to the note below. If the pitch correction machine wasn't on it, it wouldn't be nearly as flat.

After listening to both shows (almost in their entirety) I find that there isn't one moment where they laid off the pitch correction. Choose any spot, and you'll notice a certain robotic quality about his voice.

I don't know man... He's sung flat, and that's not because of a machine pulling him down. Let us not fall into the extreme of blaming a pitch corrector every time he sounds too good

Of course. I'm not blaming the pitch correction for Brian Wilson's flat singing. We've all heard the tapes of him (and seen him) over the past 12 years and know what it is as far as his live singing capabilities.

I am blaming the pitch correction for pulling down the notes even lower than he's actually hitting them, and creating an unnatural sound, possibly polluting all of the board tapes of the C50 shows.

They've taken an unpredictable situation, and made it predictably bad.

#BPainC502012  

[endofposts]

So the question remains - what songs and where in them precisely does the Auto tune come in

I've had a little bit of SOS, SG and H&V so far and that hasn't been exactly scientific

Come on u B-Painers lets have it

It's on his voice for the whole show.

The "offness" of it is more audible certain times than others. For instance, towards the end of the Surfer Girl bridge, you can hear the machine knock him down completely to the note below. If the pitch correction machine wasn't on it, it wouldn't be nearly as flat.

After listening to both shows (almost in their entirety) I find that there isn't one moment where they laid off the pitch correction. Choose any spot, and you'll notice a certain robotic quality about his voice.

I don't know man... He's sung flat, and that's not because of a machine pulling him down. Let us not fall into the extreme of blaming a pitch corrector every time he sounds too good

Of course. I'm not blaming the pitch correction for Brian Wilson's flat singing. We've all heard the tapes of him (and seen him) over the past 12 years and know what it is as far as his live singing capabilities.

I am blaming the pitch correction for pulling down the notes even lower than he's actually hitting them, and creating an unnatural sound, possibly polluting all of the board tapes of the C50 shows.

They've taken an unpredictable situation, and made it predictably bad.

#BPainC502012  

They'll have him go in and overdub it post-production if they don't like the sound, whether it's autotune or he's flatting or both, for any DVD or download/CD release.  Then people will complain about that

[send me a picture and i'll tell you]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxRvDpF2FDA

[seltaeb1012002]

They'll have him go in and overdub it post-production if they don't like the sound, whether it's autotune or he's flatting or both, for any DVD or download/CD release.  Then people will complain about that

Yeah. Well, not me. That would be a welcomed fix compared to what's going on here.

I just wonder who they're trying to impress, or fool. Judging by the audience reaction when Jeff calls out the band members names in the beginning of the TX show, these people DEFINITELY know who Brian Wilson is, and most likely know what comes with his presence. He clearly got the loudest audience response.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxRvDpF2FDA

LOL nice. I like that song quite a bit. Catchy hook. T-Pain's a talented guy beyond the autotune.

We need a T-Pain ft. B-Pain collab. 

[runnersdialzero]

me either. don't hear it anywhere. and really, who gives a sh*t anyway? what difference does it make?

Is it really so hard to see why this upsets people? That the very presence of something like this totally cheapens the whole "live concert" thing? That Brian would probably actually sound *better* without something they've made a conscience decision to use to make him sound "better"? That it's a slap in the face to Brian's talents, Brian as a person, and fans? That it makes him look pathetic and incapable to people who hear it and don't know any better?

Also, yeah, it is on the Texas show. Not as bad as the Tuscon show, but still pretty bad.

[Wirestone]

We need a T-Pain ft. B-Pain collab. 

But we couldn't tell them apart anymore! 

[Zach95]

I don't know if they are or aren't using it from what I've heard, but this entire argument is obnoxious. If it is being used, I wish it would stop simply because this argument has raged for days with no end in sight.

[Wirestone]

That's what this thread it for! It allows us to concentrate Autotune discussion in one easily avoidable spot for those who wish to direct their energies elsewhere.

[Zach95]

That's what this thread it for! It allows us to concentrate Autotune discussion in one easily avoidable spot for those who wish to direct their energies elsewhere.

I know but it's so hard to ignore the little new thingy next to the thread name so I HAVE to read it! Following which, I read depressing instances of the Beach Boys using Autotune.

[Awesoman]

There was definitely autotune to be had for BW in Atlanta. 

[Wylson]

This is the most blatant example of the auto tune: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQNj9WQUHsc

If you can't hear something very strange about Brian's voice here well....you never will. It is is clear that it is being digitally pushed to hit the notes.

In all seriousness if they keep this up it is only a matter of time before the media catch on and Brian and the Beach Boys are a laughing stock. Someone has got to get rid of this. Brian has never needed it before.

[seltaeb1012002]

In all seriousness if they keep this up it is only a matter of time before the media catch on and Brian and the Beach Boys are a laughing stock. Someone has got to get rid of this. Brian has never needed it before.

So true man. I already saw some girl post it on her tumblr. I'm concerned for these guys. It's embarrassing.

[LostArt]

...possibly polluting all of the board tapes of the C50 shows.

They'll have him go in and overdub it post-production if they don't like the sound, whether it's autotune or he's flatting or both, for any DVD or download/CD release.  Then people will complain about that

Just as they can send the unprocessed signal to the monitor mix, they can (and do) also send an unprocessed signal to the mobile recording truck.  So, unless you're talking about soundboard recordings (not officially released), then we don't have to worry about any eq, reverb, compression, delay, etc. that's applied to the house mix to be applied to the signals that go to the truck.  

[b00ts]

This is the most blatant example of the auto tune: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQNj9WQUHsc

If you can't hear something very strange about Brian's voice here well....you never will. It is is clear that it is being digitally pushed to hit the notes.

In all seriousness if they keep this up it is only a matter of time before the media catch on and Brian and the Beach Boys are a laughing stock. Someone has got to get rid of this. Brian has never needed it before.

Wow, you can really hear it in the "Sunny down snuff" solo vocal. Brian's voice is being pushed all over the place, and there is audible digital stepping.

It must make it hard to sing when your voice is being mangled like that. It is an insult to Brian that they are making him  sing with autotune.

[LostArt]

This is the most blatant example of the auto tune: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQNj9WQUHsc

If you can't hear something very strange about Brian's voice here well....you never will. It is is clear that it is being digitally pushed to hit the notes.

In all seriousness if they keep this up it is only a matter of time before the media catch on and Brian and the Beach Boys are a laughing stock. Someone has got to get rid of this. Brian has never needed it before.

Wow, you can really hear it in the "Sunny down snuff" solo vocal. Brian's voice is being pushed all over the place, and there is audible digital stepping.

It must make it hard to sing when your voice is being mangled like that. It is an insult to Brian that they are making him  sing with autotune.

If it's being used, it's certainly not being fed back at him through his monitors.

[guitarfool2002]

Yeah, that's what I said in my post answering Ron's question about how it works, when used live - the singer would not hear the Autotune signal in his/her monitor.

[SBonilla]

This is the most blatant example of the auto tune: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQNj9WQUHsc

If you can't hear something very strange about Brian's voice here well....

You're right.  As for that, push it back, way back.

[Zach95]

Okay, now, would it be at all possible for anyone connected to the tour in anyway to tell band's management that the pitch correction needs to stop? Is there any way of contacting them?

[AndrewHickey]

I couldn't hear it on the Tucson show, because I don't know what to listen for,  but in the Texas show on H&V there are a couple of moments with a really odd sound on Brian's voice, like if he was hitting himself repeatedly, very fast, in the throat to make a robot voice while singing. I assume that's what people are talking about?
It sounded bad on that bit, but generally it doesn't seem to sound too bad to my ears...

[GeorgeFellInHisHorn]

This is the most blatant example of the auto tune: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQNj9WQUHsc

If you can't hear something very strange about Brian's voice here well....you never will. It is is clear that it is being digitally pushed to hit the notes.

In all seriousness if they keep this up it is only a matter of time before the media catch on and Brian and the Beach Boys are a laughing stock. Someone has got to get rid of this. Brian has never needed it before.

Wow, that's horrible. Sad to hear.  I'm an audio engineer, and that's just bad use of autotune. It wouldn't even be that big of a deal if they at least used it efficiently, but the settings are just horribly done.  Hopefully, they'll figure the situation out soon.