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680599 Posts in 27601 Topics by 4068 Members - Latest Member: Dae Lims March 29, 2024, 02:30:58 AM
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Author Topic: TWGMTR Now Officially Loaded On YouTube  (Read 17003 times)
b00ts
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« Reply #100 on: April 24, 2012, 02:53:02 PM »

And Ron, we get it, BRI is paying you to not rock the boat. People can have f*cking opinions. Don't just dismiss them because you don't agree.

Look, it's not just a matter of having and voicing an opinion. It's a matter of reasonably supporting it.

And for a while now, the autotune thing has become a topic for fans that pretend to know better than the Beach Boys. It got tiresome.

I don’t think this is accurate at all. At least for me, I don’t pretend to know more than the BB’s. I know autotune is used; and so do they (I would hope and presume). The issue at hand is whether it should be used, and that boils down to the same subjective analysis that goes into saying whether one likes a song or not, or likes the production, and so on.

If one likes something and somebody else doesn’t, there is not “knowing better.” It’s 100% opinion. As I’ve said in a few threads, I’ve given up the “it loses musical integrity to use autotune” argument. At this point, it’s just an aesthetic thing, like not liking something because they put too much reverb on it. So in *some* cases, autotune results in a sound I don’t like. That’s all.

Now, on the other hand, if what we’re talking about is debating whether autotune is even being used, that’s where an impasse is going to be hit. We can’t judge much other than one full song and another partial one when it comes to new BB recordings. But if we’re going to debate whether, say, “Do It Again” even has autotune (or something of a similar nature in terms of digital plug-ins), then there’s nowhere to take the debate. It’s like someone contending some sort of well-known lip-sync artist is not lip-syncing because you can’t prove it unless the singer admits it or you can have access to the actual recording they are lip-syncing to. Of course we can’t prove with 100% certainty if autotune is used on any given recording unless the artist or producer admits it or we were personally in the studio. But the hallmarks of its use are very obvious.

Exactly. People have been slathering pitch correction and autotune on vocals for so long now that many singers sing in a style conducive to autotune - perfectly hitting every note - even without the pitch correction.

Vocal pitch correction annoys me because I don't like all the humanity being squashed out of a vocal performance, especially with one of the great vocal groups of all time. I have never used pitch correction on my own vocals, and sometimes people assume that I do, which can get a bit annoying - but mainly, I don't like the way it changes the timbre of a voice. In the end, it is a tool like anything else.

The upshot is that the pitch correction on TWGMTR is tasteful, as it has been on Brian's solo albums. "Do It Again 2011" had me worried because of the large amount of pitch correction, specifically on Mike's vocal, but TWGMTR isn't too bad in the autotune department.

Boy, you really must enjoy your GIOMH album. Grin
Ha. Touché! I have to say, the pitch correction on on BWRG in particular was done tastefully. The amount of correction that would need to be done with GIOMH would be way beyond anything we've seen before (although I'm sure they used it at points on that album, given how unengaged Brian was).

Part of the problem with autotuning harmonies is that there is an ineffable amount of flat and sharp singing that must go into harmonies in order to make them fit - sort of like tuning a piano (but less extreme), where if you do it mathematically perfectly, it won't sound right. Someone more knowledgable than me can expand on this with technical details.
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« Reply #101 on: April 24, 2012, 04:19:21 PM »


Part of the problem with autotuning harmonies is that there is an ineffable amount of flat and sharp singing that must go into harmonies in order to make them fit - sort of like tuning a piano (but less extreme), where if you do it mathematically perfectly, it won't sound right. Someone more knowledgable than me can expand on this with technical details.

From a technical standpoint, I'd say you about nailed it.

FWIW, I do a lot of harmonies here at my studio, for and by myself and for and with others, and never, ever use pitch correction.  Every time I've heard it used, you lose something.  It's just flat.  The richness of BBs harmony has more to do with perfect delivery and blend than with perfect pitch.
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Chris Brown
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« Reply #102 on: April 24, 2012, 08:47:42 PM »


Part of the problem with autotuning harmonies is that there is an ineffable amount of flat and sharp singing that must go into harmonies in order to make them fit - sort of like tuning a piano (but less extreme), where if you do it mathematically perfectly, it won't sound right. Someone more knowledgable than me can expand on this with technical details.

From a technical standpoint, I'd say you about nailed it.

FWIW, I do a lot of harmonies here at my studio, for and by myself and for and with others, and never, ever use pitch correction.  Every time I've heard it used, you lose something.  It's just flat.  The richness of BBs harmony has more to do with perfect delivery and blend than with perfect pitch.

Well said.  There's a section in Charles Granta's book on Pet Sounds where he interviews Ross Barbour, one of the founding Four Freshman, and David Wright, a barbershop vocal arranger, and they both discuss this.  Since I happen to have it in front of me, a few quotes:

"You can't get beautiful overtones if you sing the notes a piano plays; you've got to tweak the vocal notes, making them a bit sharp or flat in certain places." 

"Good vocals are much more in tune than the keyboard...a good vocal ensemble finds that finer tuning."
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