A bit crap

[runnersdialzero]

I've went into it many, many times on this board, and

YES Quantity reflects QUALITY.  

PERIOD.  
 

I was reminded of Ron's words when I ran across this.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/daves4/12-extremely-disappointing-facts-about-popular-mus

I like looking through this and realizing I dislike 90% of people named, new and old. The article reeks of your typical "rawk-type stuff 4ever" guy.

[ontor pertawst]

I would to state that The Little Old Lady From Pasadena is the worst song of all time. Discuss.

Oh, come on.

That's all I got.

A fair argument. But in my present condition, I cannot think of a song which is worse.

It's little sister and cousin of I Get Around - THE ANAHEIM, AZUSA, AND CUCAMONGA SEWING CIRCLE, BOOK REVIEW, AND TIMING ASSOCIATION - is worse by far

Yeah, but then you can play it right after Elvis' "Fort Lauderdale Chamber Of Commerce" and really cause some kind of inane pop-based nervous breakdown.

[Wirestone]

Wirestone! Your never this pessimistic! We need to find a way to cheer you up, because I LOVE the way this is going so far and I think you will too, soon, I hope.

Well, it's been an exhausting couple of days. I've been down, I've been up, I've been down, and now I'm not sure where I am.

So to recap: Earlier this week I was crabby. I didn't like the partial setlist played for Sirius XM, and some of the song titles coming out sounded terrible.

Then we had the teaser trailer of TWGMTR leak. I was up! Sounded catchy!

Then the concert happened last night. The setlist looked terrific, and reports were positive. Yay! Super happy!

Today, we got the full single. It was pretty good, but hmm ... that rawkin' bridge? Hmmm. Moving down.

And then the audio surfaced. Live autotune for Brian?

Then some of the "Brian doesn't want to tour" press coverage surfaced.

And now I don't know where I am. I'm profoundly tired of all of this. Perhaps this is the fate of big fans -- to be eternally disappointed by the creative decisions of those they follow -- but I don't like it.

I want to like this. I want to feel like Brian and the band are making the right decisions. I want to be able to enjoy them, and enjoy their decisions. I wish it wasn't so difficult sometimes.

Anyway. Let's talk about Melinda's dogs or something.

[anazgnos]

It just wouldn't be the Beach Boys without some crushing disappointment.

[Aegir]

There's no live autotune, and if there is, it's used so subtly that I can't even tell! it's probably due to that dark three month period in my life I ironically listened to the pop station. I'm probably so used to autotune that it sounds natural.

but you know what, this is a good place to be!

[Disney Boy (1985)]

Your actual words at  8.10.51am today:

"...it should be a big, career-spanning trawl through their catalogue."

Ergo, they would "devote half the setlist to obscure album tracks from commercially unsuccessful albums", according to you. Otherwise it would just be a GH set, and we wouldn't want that, would we ?

I can't put it any better (or clearer) than i did previously, so i'll just repeat what i wrote before:

I think i get where Wirestone is coming from, although he didn't argue his point very well. Now i adore - absolutely f**king ADORE - the Beach Boys more commercial and early material and i've no problem with them playing a big old chunk of that on their reunion tour. It goes without saying, they couldn't not! What i do have a problem with however is the fact that - from what's been said so far - there's little acknowledgement of their more artistic side at all - and to me this is disappointing, especially in light of the recent success of Smile, Brian's latest works, and Al's continuous praising of their more experimental work in recent years. Yes, i know we can't expect them to do a set entirely of obscure album tracks, that's blatantly not what i'm saying, however there'd be no harm in a hardcore fan-pleasing 20-30% chunk of artistic material being thrown into the mix. 
I think it's a fallacy to imply the audience would be running to the exits if the band were to play All This Is That, Time To Get Alone or Til I Die inbetween the hits. The group were artistically progressive for a comfortable 14-15 year run - some more acknowledgement of that wouldn't hurt.   

[Aegir]

Well... they DID play All This is That.

[Disney Boy (1985)]

And that is undoubtably a very GOOD THING! What other non-hits did they play?

[Aegir]

http://www.setlist.fm/setlist/the-beach-boys/2012/anselmo-valencia-amphitheater-tucson-az-63de5a8b.html

[Iron Horse-Apples]

Then some of the "Brian doesn't want to tour" press coverage surfaced.

Doesn't surprise me, but where is this covered?

[Dave in KC]

When I looked at the setlist and the tour schedule, with new dates coming out every few days, and think of Brian doing all that travelling and work. If Ms. Mel gets tired of it too. I just worry about the long haul and if Brian can make it through. That's the brief thought I had anyway. Not predicting anything.

[Micha]

Please pay attention to the rest of the thread. My reasoning is more fully explained there.

Man, I just spent one and a half hours reading stuff and I have hardly read a quarter of those threads that I thought might be interesting. I can't read everything.

This board is for discussion, not to make you feel better.

True, but I just don't like being told what to think. "All of you hepping yourselves up over this should calm down." Why should I, when it's fun? Is that for you to decide? Is that what you call "discussion"? Maybe I do focus too much on that line of yours, but that attitude doesn't make me want to discuss. The song is pleasant to me, no matter who wrote or produced it. Yes, TLOS was better. I agree (no irony). So?

[Micha]

I think we should think of TWGMTR as the latest in a long line of made-to-order BB singles. That is, songs that are purposefully built to show off what the group (and its advisers) think is best about the band at any one time.

This is a trend that goes back (at least) to Sail On Sailor, which was the last-minute addition to single-fy Holland. It's a "Brian Wilson" composition, sure, but one with the most basic of chord changes and a bevy of-co-writers.

You also had, notably, Good Timin' (rescued from a batch of old tapes to give L.A. its signature BW moment), Goin' On (again, a BW comp but one wildly re-arranged by Bruce) and Getcha Back (Mike and Melcher ripping off "Hungry Heart" while BW does his best Billy Joel in the background).

While many of these songs are good -- and some are now thought of as classics -- they are all meant to showcase harmony (or in the case of SoS, the 70s "rock" BB sound), Brian Wilson's involvement in the band, and the notion of the group as an unstoppable hit, harmony and hook machine.

Looked at in that sense, TWGMTR makes all the sense in the world. Again, you have a purpose-written song (with Brian likely fiddling with it in one way or another), group vocals out the wazoo, and a Brian lead to prove that he's engaged in the reunion. Also, a hook that it's not afraid to pound into the ground.

That's more like discussing. I can follow you there, Wirestone.

[Menace Wilson]

Here's some Lil' Wayne, showing his "quality":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Smb8tMeRTQQ&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4CoXRPK4TM&feature=endscreen&NR=1

Just for the record, the difference between this and Pet Sounds is totally subjective.

[rab2591]

Here's some Lil' Wayne, showing his "quality":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Smb8tMeRTQQ&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4CoXRPK4TM&feature=endscreen&NR=1

Just for the record, the difference between this and Pet Sounds is totally subjective.

I think there were people in those videos actually cheering his performance. Humanity is really taking a nosedive.

[SMiLE Brian]

Here's some Lil' Wayne, showing his "quality":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Smb8tMeRTQQ&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4CoXRPK4TM&feature=endscreen&NR=1

Just for the record, the difference between this and Pet Sounds is totally subjective.

I think there were people in those videos actually cheering his performance. Humanity is really taking a nosedive.

I want to listen to til I die after watching this.

[Wirestone]

I would like to resurrect this thread to note that I was utterly and completely wrong in my initial post. Well, maybe not utterly, but my fears have been allayed, and the live tunage has been turned off. The setlists are great and the album is excellent.

Again, I was wrong. Apologies. Thank you.

[SurfRiderHawaii]

Not read all the posts but have to add:  no Blondie or Ricky so far and there has been Stamos  .

Personally, I never expected all we are getting, especially a half way decent album (great in parts).

[puni puni]

The Beach Boys are, fortunately, the most badly marketed band to have ever existed.

[Jonathan Blum]

I would like to resurrect this thread to note that I was utterly and completely wrong in my initial post. Well, maybe not utterly, but my fears have been allayed, and the live tunage has been turned off. The setlists are great and the album is excellent.

Again, I was wrong. Apologies. Thank you.

Sometimes it's just plain wonderful to be wrong.  :-)

Cheers,
Jon Blum

[Dove Nested Towers]

Your actual words at  8.10.51am today:

"...it should be a big, career-spanning trawl through their catalogue."

Ergo, they would "devote half the setlist to obscure album tracks from commercially unsuccessful albums", according to you. Otherwise it would just be a GH set, and we wouldn't want that, would we ?

I can't put it any better (or clearer) than i did previously, so i'll just repeat what i wrote before:

I think i get where Wirestone is coming from, although he didn't argue his point very well. Now i adore - absolutely f**king ADORE - the Beach Boys more commercial and early material and i've no problem with them playing a big old chunk of that on their reunion tour. It goes without saying, they couldn't not! What i do have a problem with however is the fact that - from what's been said so far - there's little acknowledgement of their more artistic side at all - and to me this is disappointing, especially in light of the recent success of Smile, Brian's latest works, and Al's continuous praising of their more experimental work in recent years. Yes, i know we can't expect them to do a set entirely of obscure album tracks, that's blatantly not what i'm saying, however there'd be no harm in a hardcore fan-pleasing 20-30% chunk of artistic material being thrown into the mix. 
I think it's a fallacy to imply the audience would be running to the exits if the band were to play All This Is That, Time To Get Alone or Til I Die inbetween the hits. The group were artistically progressive for a comfortable 14-15 year run - some more acknowledgement of that wouldn't hurt.   

I'm going to enter this fray and try not to take any response personally, even though my skin is probably too thin for my own good, so please be kind. I'm trying to give a constructive opinion and have no interest in conflict or nastiness. This is a topic that is ripe for in-depth exploration at this particular historical juncture because the band is engaged in what is certainly one of its final phases of permanent self-definition. The rubber is hitting the road and the BBs legacy and identity is in the process of being permanently cemented during this tour, and a lot is at stake.

Wirestone is saying a lot of things that I was thinking of saying, and heartily agree with. I don't remember his exact words in his original post, but if he disparaged the band's early car or surf songs more than he intended to (or if his comments were just misconstrued) he later retracted that, and I certainly embrace that early work whole-heartedly, with no ambiguity whatsoever. Some have said here that they are equally happy to hear anything the band chooses to play, even going so far as to call the more ambitious, artistic tracks "yawners" or some such. Of course opinions and tastes are subjective, but I know that last night at the show, there was a magic, reflective mood and zen-like, dreamy  momentum and atmosphere for the relatively few "art" songs in the set (particularly All This is That, California Saga, Add Some Music, Disney Girls & Sail On Sailor)  reminiscent of what the legendary early '70s concerts (which I unfortunately didn't attend) must have been like, that was repeatedly truncated by a return to the more conventional fare before it had a chance to take flight and build up a continuity that would be truly marvelous.

There are too many points that have been made in this thread to fully address. I'll try to remember as many as I can. The comparison between self-indulgent artists playing mediocre, non-commercial material at concerts is spurious. The quality of the best of the more non-commercial BB tunes is widely acknowledged, I venture to say, so that's not really an apt comparison. I don't believe that Brian, in the main, writes music principally for profit-making motives, even when their careers took off and he felt pressure to be a breadwinner. Later (PS and after) came a time when his experimental, artistic growth no longer fostered a natural convergence between his innovative, but up until that time relatively conventional compositional style (enhanced by his competitive urge to write the greatest stuff that anyone could) and his desire to create financially remunerative hit records to support his brothers and family. I believe that he,at least in the first part of the band's career, wrote music mainly to express himself creatively, and that creativity was incidentally commercially appealing. When the music he wrote met with relative indifference (such as H&V not performing up to his expectations) he was hurt and began to withdraw from the expectation that his output would be universally acclaimed.

Ron is correct that there is an idealism present in Wirestone's yearnings for the band to be at least equally identified with its more substantive material as with its less ambitious work. What we want the band to be is now obviously unlikely to happen, and we love what we have, but while simultaneously making peace with it, those of us who hope for more can keep that dream alive and hope to influence this tour and whatever is left of the band's future by standing up for what we believe in, which is nothing less that the full creative potential of the Beach Boys being respected equally with the other parts of its identity.

I don't put the early surf & car songs in the category of "less ambitious" (more so the songs, culminating in "Kokomo" which recycled the familiar, archetypal memes and tropes in IMO sub-standard, recycled fashion later in the group's career, such as "Getcha Back" etc), even though they define the aesthetic that informed ML's vision (I don't want to polarize board members into pro-Mike and anti-Mike factions, a trap that is easily fallen into by many, myself included) or descend into character assassination or the like, just trying to identify, basically correctly I think, the fact that his vision of what the band should be is more mainstream overall than what Carl & Dennis were pushing for in the late '70s when push really came to shove over the group's image and identity. His vision won the day, and the group became more and more an oldies act (despite the undeniably high quality of these particular oldies) rather than attempting to strike a balance between the two facets of the group's nature. This tour is a really significant opportunity to regain a relative balance between those aspects of its character, and the opportunity is being missed, not completely, but to a considerable degree.

Someone predicted here that Wirestone would be ecstatic, and cheering wildly, no matter what the setlist is, when he attends  his local tour stop. I imagine he will do a lot of cheering, as I did, but also feel a great amount of frustration and disappointment, as I did (don't mean to put words in your mouth, Wirestone, no offense intended). One reason that the audience expects a more mainstream selection (and didn't seem to respond very well to the rarities) was because they have been conditioned to expect conformity from the band. It didn't have to be that way, but it is, and I understand that that is the reality of the situation, and am very thankful to have that reality. But I am an idealist too, and the power of some of the more obscure material is so potent that I was keenly aware last night of a very real, palpable missed opportunity. The most exalted musical ambitions of the group, in large part, are being done a disservice to. This band and its music are very important to us, and at this moment of penultimate self-definition, the opportunity for closure and a return to the more exalted artistic ideals that fueled some of its most amazing, existential, introspective work is sad to see pass by. One problem, of course, is that much of that material was sung by Dennis or Carl, and even some precious early songs like "Keep An Eye On Summer", "We'll Run Away" or "She Knows Me Too Well" would be difficult for Brian to pull off and would have to be performed by Foskett or others.

I felt it last night, a tantalizing sense of lost promise, and am unwilling to just keep quiet, toe the line and shuffle off into the night. During the poignant memorials to Carl and Dennis, their spirits seemed to be both celebrating the 50 years of mostly wonderful entertainment, while crying out for more of the 3 brothers' creative stamp to still be present in the content of the evening's festivities. Al, to his great credit, apparently regrets siding with the more conventional direction at that critical juncture in the late '70s. His stand-up advocacy for Surf's Up and Dennis' comments about SMiLE were a breath of fresh air during the recent Charlie Rose interview, and his attempts to convince ML to open the 2nd set with "Our Prayer" were laudable. I understand that the Beach Boys identity will forever be founded mainly on the themes of their origins, which are quite profound but the overreliance on and pervasiveness of that particular aspect cheapens those elemental, formative Southern California themes. I understand that it's a blessing and a miracle that they overcame their various differences and are touring at all, and performing so well, but they are far more multifaceted than that, and their legacy deserves better.  

[Dove Nested Towers]

Wanted to add that I understand that they are performing many songs and it would be very difficult to decide which few to jettison in favor of deeper cuts, and they can't be expected to do more songs, which does present a dilemma.

[Jonathan Blum]

Someone predicted here that Wirestone would be ecstatic, and cheering wildly, no matter what the setlist is, when he attends  his local tour stop. I imagine he will do a lot of cheering, as I did, but also feel a great amount of frustration and disappointment, as I did (don't mean to put words in your mouth, Wirestone, no offense intended). One reason that the audience expects a more mainstream selection (and didn't seem to respond very well to the rarities) was because they have been conditioned to expect conformity from the band.

It might help you feel better if you keep the setlist in perspective...  The other night at the Greek, they played 45 songs, and nearly half of them -- 21 of the 45 -- weren't hits.  They were B-sides and album tracks, from "Please Let Me Wonder" to "Forever", "Isn't It Time" to "409", "Kiss Me Baby" to "I Just Wasn't Made For These Times", or singles which never touched the Top 40 like "Marcella" and "Sail On Sailor".

There's a lot of songs there which, by most peoples' definition, are deep cuts, and artistically ambitious.  We've been a bit spoiled in recent years, thanks to Brian's band and selected shows from Mike which have delved about this deep before -- to the point where we can take hearing "Disney Girls" and four songs from "Pet Sounds" for granted.  But for a band which could do a 34-song set just of their Top 40 hits... this is an extensive trawl through their catalog.

Basically, the glass is pretty much exactly half full...

Cheers,
Jon Blum

[Dove Nested Towers]

Someone predicted here that Wirestone would be ecstatic, and cheering wildly, no matter what the setlist is, when he attends  his local tour stop. I imagine he will do a lot of cheering, as I did, but also feel a great amount of frustration and disappointment, as I did (don't mean to put words in your mouth, Wirestone, no offense intended). One reason that the audience expects a more mainstream selection (and didn't seem to respond very well to the rarities) was because they have been conditioned to expect conformity from the band.

It might help you feel better if you keep the setlist in perspective...  The other night at the Greek, they played 45 songs, and nearly half of them -- 21 of the 45 -- weren't hits.  They were B-sides and album tracks, from "Please Let Me Wonder" to "Forever", "Isn't It Time" to "409", "Kiss Me Baby" to "I Just Wasn't Made For These Times", or singles which never touched the Top 40 like "Marcella" and "Sail On Sailor".

There's a lot of songs there which, by most peoples' definition, are deep cuts, and artistically ambitious.  We've been a bit spoiled in recent years, thanks to Brian's band and selected shows from Mike which have delved about this deep before -- to the point where we can take hearing "Disney Girls" and four songs from "Pet Sounds" for granted.  But for a band which could do a 34-song set just of their Top 40 hits... this is an extensive trawl through their catalog.

Basically, the glass is pretty much exactly half full...

Cheers,
Jon Blum

Not quite exactly, IMO Jon. They could drop It's O.K.. R&R Music, The Time Has Come (or whatever it's called) and Barbara Ann in favor of 4 more transcendental nuggets. Then I'd be satisfied.

[Jim V.]

Someone predicted here that Wirestone would be ecstatic, and cheering wildly, no matter what the setlist is, when he attends  his local tour stop. I imagine he will do a lot of cheering, as I did, but also feel a great amount of frustration and disappointment, as I did (don't mean to put words in your mouth, Wirestone, no offense intended). One reason that the audience expects a more mainstream selection (and didn't seem to respond very well to the rarities) was because they have been conditioned to expect conformity from the band.

It might help you feel better if you keep the setlist in perspective...  The other night at the Greek, they played 45 songs, and nearly half of them -- 21 of the 45 -- weren't hits.  They were B-sides and album tracks, from "Please Let Me Wonder" to "Forever", "Isn't It Time" to "409", "Kiss Me Baby" to "I Just Wasn't Made For These Times", or singles which never touched the Top 40 like "Marcella" and "Sail On Sailor".

There's a lot of songs there which, by most peoples' definition, are deep cuts, and artistically ambitious.  We've been a bit spoiled in recent years, thanks to Brian's band and selected shows from Mike which have delved about this deep before -- to the point where we can take hearing "Disney Girls" and four songs from "Pet Sounds" for granted.  But for a band which could do a 34-song set just of their Top 40 hits... this is an extensive trawl through their catalog.

Basically, the glass is pretty much exactly half full...

Cheers,
Jon Blum

Not quite exactly, IMO Jon. They could drop It's O.K.. R&R Music, The Time Has Come (or whatever it's called) and Barbara Ann in favor of 4 more transcendental nuggets. Then I'd be satisfied.

I'm gonna be honest. I'm a huge fan, major deep cut guy. Sure, I wish they would do "Aren't You Glad", "I Went to Sleep",  "Surf's Up", "You Need A Mess of Help...", and "Good Timin'", but I also know that, compared to their contemporaries, like Paul McCartney or Bob Dylan, they give us more deep cuts than nearly any of them.

Seriously...this tour they've played "This Whole World", "Please Let Me Wonder", "I Just Wasn't Made for These Times", "Marcella" and "All This is That", amongst others. That is pretty freakin' nuts!

Compare this to Bob Dylan, who, while he has tour relentlessly for the past 20ish years, pretty much sticks to his '60s classics, maybe something from Blood on the Tracks and a few things from his latest albums. Fans hoping to hear something from New Morning or Desire or Street Legal are probably gonna be disappointed.

Or even Sir Paul. Chances are, if you go see him, you're gonna get mostly Beatles songs. If you are hoping for solo or Wings stuff, you won't get much. Usually probably only "Maybe I'm Amazed" from McCartney, "Live and Let Die, maybe "My Love" from Red Rose Speedway and a few cuts from Band on the Run. Luckily, over the past few years, he's snuck in stuff from Ram like "Too Many People" and "Ram On" and some Wings stuff, but that's about it. If somebody who was a huge fan of relatively big albums like McCartney, Red Rose Speedway or Tug of War went to a McCartney concert hoping to hear some of their favorite songs from those albums, chances are they would be out of luck.

However, I gotta say The Beach Boys have really come up with the goods on this tour, and they are doing multiple songs from albums like Sunflower, Carl and the Passions, and Holland, which weren't as big as McCartney's '70s albums. So if anything, I think they have major guts going out there and playing a lot of their more artistic material, and I myself am very happy with their work on this tour.