Manson/Dennis Story

[I. Spaceman]

"The surface of the true story of Manson, the BB and the LA music/movie scene hasn't even been scratched."

Feel free to scratch away, AGD.  What do we know? 

Is it right that the Beach Boys who recorded Charlie were Brian and Carl, not Dennis. Right?

I wonder if those tapes were really destroyed, considering Mike mentioned to Tom Carson in Rolling Stone that they still had them.

[endofposts]

"The surface of the true story of Manson, the BB and the LA music/movie scene hasn't even been scratched."

Feel free to scratch away, AGD.  What do we know? 

Is it right that the Beach Boys who recorded Charlie were Brian and Carl, not Dennis. Right?

The fact that the Wilson brothers didn't get completely creeped out by Manson's insane-looking eyes and demeanor always made me wonder just how bad Murry Wilson really was.  I'm not sure anyone raised in even a semi-normal family would have any response but to run in the other direction.

[I. Spaceman]

"The surface of the true story of Manson, the BB and the LA music/movie scene hasn't even been scratched."

Feel free to scratch away, AGD.  What do we know? 

Is it right that the Beach Boys who recorded Charlie were Brian and Carl, not Dennis. Right?

The fact that the Wilson brothers didn't get completely creeped out by Manson's insane-looking eyes and demeanor always made me wonder just how bad Murry Wilson really was.  I'm not sure anyone raised in even a semi-normal family would have any response but to run in the other direction.

I think he could be a very charming guy when he wanted to be, that is how he gained so many followers and Hollywood acquaintances. He didn't walk around looking like that cover of Life magazine. Brian was probably more intimidating.

[Heysaboda]

I don't think Dennis was entirely to blame for "bringing him around."  Manson was interested in the music industry and would have tried to hang out there on the fringes with or without Dennis.  Neil Young remembered seeing Manson in clubs and the fact that some people thought he was cool, not just Dennis. I also think it's a stretch to blame Dennis' downfall on his association with Manson or guilt associated with it.  He was an alcoholic and a drug addict.  Brian never got involved with Manson and he had the same problems.  It was heredity and environment.

I don't like the idea of all the publicity and glorification that Manson has gotten.  Other people may feel the same way and that may be why no one wants to touch the story.  It just encourages future Mansons.  One was enough.  He has never had any socially redeeming values so the less attention the better.

Neil Young tried to get him signed to Warners. If folks such as Neil Young, Dennis Wilson and Terry Melcher felt Manson had musical talent, it is pretty likely that he did. That is an important part of the equation.

Okay, interesting, never heard THAT before.  Do you know where this is documented?

[guitarfool2002]

Start your conflicts elsewhere, please. Thanks.

I didn't start anything, little man. Just do what I said, and watch how you talk to me, Uncle Remus. Patronise other people, not me. Not a request.

You want a conflict, you're not getting one. Just let it go.

Just do what I told ya, and go bother someone else. If ya rolled yer eyes at me in public, you wouldn't be doing it twice. Conduct yourself here the way you would be conducting yourself in public. Simple. Then there will be no problem.

Consider treating people with more respect, that's the simple part.

Offering one simple correction WAS treating you with respect. Rolling your eyes at me for no reason whatsoever, not respect. Very simple, just admit it, then there is nothing more to talk about.

If an eye-rolling smiley on a message board leads to calling someone "bitch", "Uncle Remus", "little man", and all the other crap that followed, the problem is not mine to address. And I'll say again the option is there to take the high road or keep stoking the fire until it gets out of hand. No one has the power or authority to demand anything from anyone here or pretty much anywhere else except in school and commerce where there are positions of authority in place, and the bullying pose isn't welcome.

You really think you're some kind of an opera star, now don't ya?

Everybody is a star. Treat others that way.

I don't roll my eyes at other people, Encyclopedia Brown! Hey, I'm sorry me and Jon Hunt booted you off our board!

You have to move on at some point. If you want to tell people you kicked me out of your Record Room, you're lying, and be sure to mention how you posted a comment that I should die, and before that posted something like f*** me and my mother after you know she died that same week I mailed you a stack of aircheck CDR's in 2006. Remember that - and remember that I sent a PM to moderator Joe in Australia asking to close my account on your board  a few days after the "die" response in a debate about "While My Guitar Gently Weeps", and I haven't posted or re-registered at your board since then.

There is crossing the line and there is crossing the line. Don't lie in public when you know the real story.

Tell the truth, don't rewrite history, and man up for your actions. And realize your words online have hurt people, upset people, and are out of line, and if that's the reputation you want to have and the bully image you want to hold onto, so be it.

[Heysaboda]

The book you are speaking of is a book about Neil Young by Jimmy McDonough, not "Neil's book".

Sorry, thanks...!  (reading these all out of order)

The McDonough book is a good one.

Neil is supposedly working on an autobiography too.

[ontor pertawst]

McDonough is a terrific writer, his Russ Meyer bio is unspeakably full of detail and flavor. I'd love to see what he or Tosches could do with a Beach Boys book. f*ck! They'd scratch the  hell out of the surface and gouge big holes in it. Has Tosches said much about them? For some reason I'm getting the feeling he wouldn't care for them too much and express it etched in acid.

[endofposts]

I suppose it was a very different time.  Like the fact that Dennis picked those girls up as hitchhikers.  I remember seeing hitchhikers by the dozens lined up on the University Avenue bridge in Berkeley as late as the mid 1980's.  When I was a child in the early '70s, I saw those groups of hitchhikers for the first time on a drive with my family.  I was agog at all the "dirty hippies" lined up with their thumbs out, with signs with their destinations written on them (including New York City, LA, Reno, and other places), and people were pulling over and picking them up.  I'm sure most of the time, the hitchhikers didn't turn out to be criminals. 

[Mike's Beard]

I frequent several Manson boards and still shake my head in disbelief at how many people buy the Helter Skelter theory BS.
Anyone with an interest in the case needs to listen to Manson's interviews, because I think that he is telling the truth a lot more than people dare give him credit for. There are plenty of cryptic clues if you listen carefully.

Manson owed Bobby B a life debt(his own words). I've no idea what for , but at some point Bobby must have saved Charlie's butt from a nasty situation. So Charlie 'owed him one.'

Tex Watson owed Charlie a life debt (for saving his butt and sorting out his mess from the Lottsapoppa situation). So Watson owed a man a favour who owed another man a favour. In essence Charlie told Tex " you repay me by repaying what I owe Bobby." Cue grisly copycat killings via botched drug burns and home robberies.

Tex told Manson he was going to kill some people. Manson replied "Don't tell me I don't want to know, I ain't going back to thepen!"

Manson manipulated a situation with a drugged up maniac, perhaps (or perhaps not) underestimating just how far off the deep end Watson was prepared to go. What he DID NOT DO was brainwash a bunch of hippies to kill random people to start a race war. That's pure fantasy.

[endofposts]

Maybe Chuckles lends some credibility to the race war theory by having a swastika permanently carved on his forehead?

[Exapno Mapcase]

"I frequent several Manson boards"

Do we have to worry about you, dad?

[Mike's Beard]

Trust me when I say there seem to be more wacos around here as of late there there are on the Manson blogs.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Come on kids! Let's be polite and sensible when we're discussing mass murderers and drug addicts!

I'll never forget meeting an old retired LAPD detective who told me the real roots of the Manson murders lie somewhere buried in the case files of the original investigation, well before Manson's name had ever come up. He also said a couple of the Manson girls had been whipped and beat up pretty badly a lot earlier at the Tate house (after being picked up hitchhiking) at some S&M party and there was payback for that to be had for that.

[DonnyL]

alright.

[Exapno Mapcase]

"Trust me when I say there seem to be more wacos around here as of late there there are on the Manson blogs."

I'm with you, Rocky.

[Heysaboda]

I don't like the idea of all the publicity and glorification that Manson has gotten.  Other people may feel the same way and that may be why no one wants to touch the story.  It just encourages future Mansons.  One was enough.  He has never had any socially redeeming values so the less attention the better.

The problem here is that he was a brilliant songwriter......

WTF?

LOL!

[endofposts]

People just don't know.  Thank the Lord they don't sit on the California parole board.  Some of us are old enough to remember the case when it happened, and saw those photos of the Tate crime scene with "Pig" written in blood, and the story of how she had the baby cut out of her stomach.  It was the most horrifying thing I was aware of as a young child besides the Kennedys, MLK, and the Vietnam War. Of course, Charlie wasn't at the crime scene, so people don't think he was responsible.  I don't get the attraction some (mostly) young (mostly) male people have for Charles Manson.  I don't think he deserves any glory and his songs are not that good.

 I have a problem with any guy with a swastika permanently carved in the middle of his forehead, just in and of itself.  It's kind of a deal-breaker for me.

[DonnyL]

alright.

[Dave in KC]

you know for years i've been wondering the true story behind Dennis And Manson, i've seen the An American Family and Cease to Exist doc which i herd both were somewhat inaccurate, Some said the Carl met Charles and was scared of him and The Family went to Brian's house once and stole his stuff (both were scene In American Family), And also i herd Dennis beated the crap out of Manson in front of the family and the list goes on and on, What's the real truth, like a timeline of the Manson/Wilson story??

Seems to me that there's a fortune to be made by somebody like AGD who seems to know so much, that we don't, about the Manson saga.  It's not like all the JFK papers that are still far from being released.

[endofposts]

Not the images, the reality. It happened.  It wasn't a made-for-TV movie.   I didn't need the media to tell me it's not cool to cut out a nearly-born fetus from a pregnant woman who begged for her life and was terrorized, along with several other people who were terrorized and murdered in cold blood.

I confess, I don't think I'd be interested in the songwriting talents of Jeff Dahmer or John Wayne Gacy, either.  Or think it was a great idea to release their songs or have someone like Axl Rose do cover versions, even if they were totally biatchin' tunes.

[sheknowsmetoowell]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEvaQWGySjk

[endofposts]

In the interests of fairness, Charles Manson in his own written words, on why he carved a swastika on his forehead.  It seems he somehow connects it to Native Americans, yet confesses at the end he was personally rather saddened that the Germans were defeated during World War II:

http://www.murderauction.com/CHARLES-MANSON-SUPERB-6-PAGE-LETTER-REGARDING-THE-ORIGIN-OF-HIS-SWASTIKA-TATTOO--AND-MORE,name,220779,auction_id,auction_details

[DonnyL]

alright.

[DonnyL]

alright.

[roll plymouth rock]

"The surface of the true story of Manson, the BB and the LA music/movie scene hasn't even been scratched."

Feel free to scratch away, AGD.  What do we know? 

Is it right that the Beach Boys who recorded Charlie were Brian and Carl, not Dennis. Right?

I wonder if those tapes were really destroyed, considering Mike mentioned to Tom Carson in Rolling Stone that they still had them.

Ha they were destroyed at the same time as the fire tapes lol