Carl and Dennis as Holograms

[the captain]

It worked with Tupac because his fans worship him as a god.  They ignore anything negative about him (you know... raping a woman; the hypocrisy of his lyrics; his incredibly childish immature attitude) and only focus on the positive things about him (the beautiful poetry he wrote; his acting skills; his ability to write several songs a day; his strong work ethic; his philosophical nature, no matter how misguided).

So for him to ressurect and do a show makes perfect sense. 

Isn't that largely what Beach Boys fans do with Dennis and (especially) Carl?

[Ron]

Nowhere near that extent.  For instance we don't go around quoting their philosophy on life, or give them a pass on any childishness they had.  Everybody's fine with Dennis being held accountable for his irresponsibility... but nothing he ever did even came close to rape.  He never called for people to be murdered in song, he didn't flip out on people he used to be close with and call them homosexuals, etc.

[the captain]

I don't mean to say anything about Carl or Dennis themselves--and in fact I'd probably argue they are almost irrelevant to the real point--but rather that the overwhelming narrative is that Dennis is that mischievous flirt and Carl is the sweet-voiced saint. Those two-dimensional images can't possibly be anything near reality. They just feed the story line.

[Ron]

I see what you're getting at, but I think the reason it works for Tupac is because they see him as immortal.  A god.  Nobody sees Carl as a god, people think highly of him and probably give him more respect than he's due and ignore his alcoholism, etc... but with Tupac's fans they're literally taking a guy who had some serious, serious flaws and making him into a christ-like figure. 

So all I'm really saying is, the hologram makes sense in Tupac's case.  That's how his fans see him.  Dennis and Carl's fans, while romanticizing their lives, don't see them as immortal or christ-like. 

Michael Jackson?  Bring on the hologram.  With Tupac and Michael you're talking about public personas that probably ARE immortal.  Nobody's going to forget Michael Jackson, if they make a hologram of him sliding across stage in a black jacket, that makes sense to me.  Again some of his fans worship him as christ-like. 

[drbeachboy]

I don't mean to say anything about Carl or Dennis themselves--and in fact I'd probably argue they are almost irrelevant to the real point--but rather that the overwhelming narrative is that Dennis is that mischievous flirt and Carl is the sweet-voiced saint. Those two-dimensional images can't possibly be anything near reality. They just feed the story line.

But it does fit their images in a band context. Happily, except for Brian & Mike, we pretty much stay out of their personal lives. As a concert band, Dennis & Carl were the heart and soul that has never been replaced since.

[EthanJClarke93]

I Could imagine, It worked for Tupac, who knows?

[Chris Brown]

As cool as the Tupac hologram was, I agree with Ron - it's something that works best for a certain type of artist.  Doing it with Dennis and Carl would be in bad taste, not to mention the whole creeping-the-hell-out-of-Brian aspect.

[Awesoman]

As cool as the Tupac hologram was, I agree with Ron - it's something that works best for a certain type of artist.  Doing it with Dennis and Carl would be in bad taste, not to mention the whole creeping-the-hell-out-of-Brian aspect.

I agree.  Hologram versions of Dennis and Carl would be a horrendous idea.  How did this thread make it to three pages? 

[Jaspy]

The thing that attracts me about holograms would be the technical aspect, just to see how it would look like with Carl & Dennis.
To me, a hologram is really nothing more then a 3D film clip, nothing tasteless about it. It's like using Carl's voice for new recordings like "Soul Searchin'", "Don't Fight The Sea" and how Brian remembers them in songs like "Southern California".
But don't worry, it certainly won't happen.

[Jaspy]

Brian would freak out on levels we have never seen.

You guys are underestimating Brian by miles. I can even see him talking to the hologram for a joke. "Hello Carl, Caaarl? Look at me!"

[NatureShowInStereo]

I think it would be cool. Not for the whole show, but as a tribute. If I saw a hologram of Dennis or Carl performing/singing a sweet solo, I'd probably end up crying like a basket case and embarrass myself in front of everyone.

[AndrewHickey]

Brian would freak out on levels we have never seen.

You guys are underestimating Brian by miles. I can even see him talking to the hologram for a joke. "Hello Carl, Caaarl? Look at me!"

Given that Brian apparently became seriously upset merely by singing their songs (one reason, apparently, why Forever and Heaven were dropped from his sets), I *really* don't think so.

When you're dealing with someone with serious mental illnesses (as Brian still unfortunately has), who often has auditory hallucinations of at least one dead relative when under stress, to then put him on stage (a situation which he finds stressful anyway) and effectively create *visual* hallucinations, of two people whose death seriously traumatised him, would seem to me to be a perfect way to induce a breakdown. At the very least it would be a weakening of the border between reality and fantasy which would be unhelpful.

And even if it didn't harm him -- even if he coped perfectly well -- I don't see him making a joke about it. I've known people who've had younger brothers die too young, and even many years later they don't see the subject as a funny one.

[J.G. Dev]

How about a hologram of Mick Jagger taking lead on I Get Around

[Runaways]

It would be dreadful and in really poor taste.  I agree it works with tupac because he's seen like some legendary mystical figure.  He went down at the peak of his abilities in a blaze of bullets, not from lung cancer or letting yourself drown.  It would be disrespectful to them, I say let Carl and Dennis rest.

[shelter]

Brian would freak out on levels we have never seen.

You guys are underestimating Brian by miles. I can even see him talking to the hologram for a joke. "Hello Carl, Caaarl? Look at me!"

Unfortionately some people here seem to think of Brian as some kind of living caricature who's life excists of nothing but eating steak and bithday cake, listening to Be My Baby, and getting freaked out by pretty much everything. I think the guy deserves a bit more credit.

[AndrewHickey]

Unfortionately some people here seem to think of Brian as some kind of living caricature who's life excists of nothing but eating steak and bithday cake, listening to Be My Baby, and getting freaked out by pretty much everything. I think the guy deserves a bit more credit.

Or possibly some of us have professional experience dealing with people with mental health problems, and know the kinds of things that in general make those conditions better or worse?

Nah, couldn't possibly be that...

[Iron Horse-Apples]

It's not going to happen.

I don't think it would just be Brian who'd be upset by it. I doubt the rest of the band would feel comfortable having their dead band mates up on stage.

So far this reunion seems to be about reconciliation between the surviving members, and a celebration they've reached this point. I do think Dennis and Carl will be acknowledged, in song and perhaps in voice on the LP, but holograms? No.

Good taste will prevail.

[filledeplage]

The thing that attracts me about holograms would be the technical aspect, just to see how it would look like with Carl & Dennis.
To me, a hologram is really nothing more then a 3D film clip, nothing tasteless about it. It's like using Carl's voice for new recordings like "Soul Searchin'", "Don't Fight The Sea" and how Brian remembers them in songs like "Southern California".
But don't worry, it certainly won't happen.

It is not like using archived tapes with Carl's voice.  It is the difference between fantasy and reality.  Reality is a tape of a voice, not unlike Nat King Coles's used with his daughter, after his passing, tastefully.  

A hologram is what I would characterize as photographic trickery and smacks of snake oil illusionism from the turn of the last century.  My impression is their real-ness and authenticity, is where their strength resides.

If you want to see an act based of holograms, and photo trickery, by all means, go for it.  If you want to see the "real deal" then see the Beach Boys, who need no accoutrements, other than the vast catalog of the past 50 years.  TV5 from France is playing Surfin' USA, as I type.  Unvarnished rock and roll! No trickery necessary.

[Lowbacca]

Good taste will prevail.

It has so far. The reunion is already a few months in existence, and apart from a few 'odd' interview segments there have been absolutely no blunders of any kind. And remember, it's the Beach Boys we are talking about. Everybody seems to be on their best behaviour, the group spirit/fun is in place, and everything is managed almost perfectly. Next milestones will be the first actual reunion gig (to see how the guys work together on stage) and of course the album release.

No weird clothing, no assaults, no lawsuits, no holograms so far...  

[Iron Horse-Apples]

Incredible technology though.

I can see this working really well as a cross between a tribute act and a music video. People will be able to go and "see" Elvis,  the Beatles, or Abba.  Or the Beach Boys circa 1964. That I'd have no problem with.

[Runaways]

Eh,I think that'd get lame really quick

[Chris Brown]

Eh,I think that'd get lame really quick

I wouldn't be so sure.  My Mom was just telling me earlier tonight about an anime character in Japan who has had 2 sold out shows which feature only a hologram.  It's definitely gimmicky, and might not hold up for more than one tour, but I think that taking classic acts like the Beatles/Michael Jackson/Elvis/etc. on the road like that using hologram technology could garner a lot of attention and sell a lot of tickets, if for no other reason than curiosity.

[ivy]

Incredible technology though.

I love the idea of all of these computer nerds around a computer tirelessly working on the subtle definition of Tupac's abs and mastering the precise manner in which he grabbed himself.

[stack-o-tracks]

"Interview" with Bruce where "He also promises this show will be a multimedia spectacle, hinting that it may also find a way to integrate the late Carl into the show."

http://www.tucsonweekly.com/tucson/surfs-up/Content?oid=3303066

I hope if they do any "multimedia spectacle"  that it's video clips played during a tribute song. No holograms or parts that Carl recorded being played over the live band. Let the dead men sleep....

[Alex]

Incredible technology though.

I love the idea of all of these computer nerds around a computer tirelessly working on the subtle definition of Tupac's abs and mastering the precise manner in which he grabbed himself.