Beach Boys "Fun Fun Fun" at Dodger Stadium

[guitarfool2002]

Nothing passive aggressive at all about wondering why this is an issue now when it's been the way the Beach Boys have performed for years, solo and as a group, unless someone wants it to be. Was it a similar issue with Blondie and Ricky being brought in as full members of the band and taking lead vocals on current singles at that time?

But, actually, I don't think they have performed this way for years.  In the past, despite bringing in some people to compliment their voices and add something new (Blondie, Ricky, et al.), the vocal foundation and backbone still started and ended with the Beach Boys.  Right now, that's very far from the case.  It's one thing to have someone compliment you, but it's quite another thing when they, mostly, start doing your job and regulate you to sidemen.  Hopefully we'll see something different once the tour starts. 

I'm going to call a time out here and ask the question, rephrased from the other reply I had:

We are basing this on a performance at The Grammys and a performance at Dodger Stadium, so far. Do we know who mixed those shows, do we know who ran the live sound versus what was broadcast, and do we know if they were under orders to deliberately mix the original members lower in the mix to favor the other voices?

If the mixing decisions were done on specific order, then who gave that order? We can't assume anyone is regulating anyone to a lesser role if the person manning the mixing board boosted Jeff Foskett's mic over someone else. If it turns out that yes, someone is deliberately masking the voices in some way, there would be an issue for sure. I don't know how much we can assume based on two performances outside of the usual BB's concert realm.

[Runaways]

didn't linett do the grammy performance? 

[Lowbacca]

didn't linett do the grammy performance? 

Not necessarily what we got out of the tv speakers. That's a different mix than the in-house mix, i.e. what the Grammy audience got.

[I. Spaceman]

We are basing this on a performance at The Grammys and a performance at Dodger Stadium, so far. Do we know who mixed those shows, do we know who ran the live sound versus what was broadcast, and do we know if they were under orders to deliberately mix the original members lower in the mix to favor the other voices?

If the mixing decisions were done on specific order, then who gave that order? We can't assume anyone is regulating anyone to a lesser role if the person manning the mixing board boosted Jeff Foskett's mic over someone else. If it turns out that yes, someone is deliberately masking the voices in some way, there would be an issue for sure. I don't know how much we can assume based on two performances outside of the usual BB's concert realm.

But you just said:

"Obviously the appearances this year were far more obvious, but unfortunately, I hate to say it, that's what we're going to get. "

So there is, by your own words, no reason to assume there will be any difference between those TV performances and live renditions of those numbers. Also, the two TV events were completely different circumstances, with different crews, but they were both mixed nearly exactly the same. Coincidence? I doubt it.
What is happening is a simple thing: the Beach Boys "people" have made the decision to present a Beach Boys "sound", no matter how much it relies upon others to mainly shoulder it, rather than to highlight the sound of the surviving band members as the sound of the Beach Boys "today". Yes, that has been done before, to varying degrees, but this time, in mine own, and others', estimation, it has gone just a bit too far.
And yes, it is time to accept that things will not be any different on the tour, and likely the album as well. I'm sure the whole venture will have some type of value, just in a very safe manner that will preclude any kind of spontaneous interpretation.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Maybe only you get the Beach Boys music and us morons simply don't, but anything can be adjusted. Just ask the Beach Boys themselves. They did "Do It Again" with the horns mimicking Brian's falsetto (back when Al, Carl, or Bruce were perfectly capable of doing it) and they also did "I Get Around" without the falsetto or anything mimicking it at all. It only takes a few minutes of thought.

When did they do that?

Do it Again: on both Live In London and the Knebworth album/dvd and I Get Around on the Central Park concert and random boots. It's all there via recorded evidence.

Your first post addressed at me was too aggressive, I think. But leave it at that.

Regarding the Central Park "I Get Around"... I think Bruce or somebody else is singing the high chorus lead but is left out of the TV mix-- the exact opposite of Foskett's Dodgers performance.

We can alwas have a french horn solo version of Don't Worry Baby, since none of the originals can sing it in its original key.



...or leave out songs with leads that have to be sung by others, like WOTS or DWB.

Your French horn Don't Worry Baby idea makes me think of the SNL skit where they sent Elvis' gold lame jumpsuit out on tour and just blasted his music behind it. And that's what I thought of during the Dodger performance. You have three guys no one knows or really cares about belting out the song loud and clear and the guys you do care about either not turned up in the mix or barely singing. And for some reason Billy H, Blondie, Ricky, Matt J etc, always sounded like they belonged there where Jeff just sound awful to me. He sounds like some guy getting up half drunk at a karaoke bar and belting out Surfer Girl. I hate being so harsh but it sucks and is disappointing. They'd better stack the reunion shows full of Al and Mike leads because I really can't see Jeff pulling those off any better, and as we know, no one does a Mike lead only Mike! It's fun seeing Brian singing Fun Fun Fun at his shows but Mike's voice is badly missed.

I really hope the Dodger thing was a mixing snafu because on one of the other clips that is less Jeff centric, I can clearly hear Bruce and he sounds just fine.

[Wirestone]

And yes, it is time to accept that things will not be any different on the tour, and likely the album as well.

I think it is far too early and assuming far too much to say this or to accept it.

It may indeed be the case. But given that you can always hear Brian loud and clear at his shows (with 10 backing vocalists!) and always hear Al at his and always hear Mike and Bruce at theirs, it would be strange to suddenly change direction with an actual Beach Boys tour.

I think the far more likely scenario is that each appearance (Grammys and Dodgers) were lightly rehearsed and in front of large, nonpaid audiences. The determination was made that the younger guys sounded stronger (and that the falsetto part needed to be louder), so their mics were turned up. The BW-heavy house mix of the Grammys suggests a certain amount of randomness is involved too.

[guitarfool2002]

We are basing this on a performance at The Grammys and a performance at Dodger Stadium, so far. Do we know who mixed those shows, do we know who ran the live sound versus what was broadcast, and do we know if they were under orders to deliberately mix the original members lower in the mix to favor the other voices?

If the mixing decisions were done on specific order, then who gave that order? We can't assume anyone is regulating anyone to a lesser role if the person manning the mixing board boosted Jeff Foskett's mic over someone else. If it turns out that yes, someone is deliberately masking the voices in some way, there would be an issue for sure. I don't know how much we can assume based on two performances outside of the usual BB's concert realm.

But you just said:

"Obviously the appearances this year were far more obvious, but unfortunately, I hate to say it, that's what we're going to get. "

So there is, by your own words, no reason to assume there will be any difference between those TV performances and live renditions of those numbers. Also, the two TV events were completely different circumstances, with different crews, but they were both mixed nearly exactly the same. Coincidence? I doubt it.
What is happening is a simple thing: the Beach Boys "people" have made the decision to present a Beach Boys "sound", no matter how much it relies upon others to mainly shoulder it, rather than to highlight the sound of the surviving band members as the sound of the Beach Boys "today". Yes, that has been done before, to varying degrees, but this time, in mine own, and others', estimation, it has gone just a bit too far.
And yes, it is time to accept that things will not be any different on the tour, and likely the album as well. I'm sure the whole venture will have some type of value, just in a very safe manner that will preclude any kind of spontaneous interpretation.

I never disputed those points, in fact I made points supporting them: My main issues were why all of the criticism now and not over the past decades (however long we wish to go back), and is it different from either what the Beach Boys have done themselves presenting a touring band or what other bands do as a standard practice when members die or leave, making any original sound impossible. I think leading this into speculating whether one of the adjunct members is somehow running the show and relegating original Beach Boys to a backing band is assuming way too much...especially since we have two performances which were outside of the BB's concert realm, they were one-offs with mixing perhaps left to chance. Maybe the most spontaneous part of it all so far was how it would be mixed!

I think knowing the story behind all this would take it away from pointing blame at folks for making decisions when we really don't know, and a few comments were on the verge of suggesting Jeff Foskett is calling these shots. Based on what, his voice being loud in the mix?

I'd like a spontaneous performance, I'd like to see just the core band doing their thing, but again it wasn't staged that way so far from the three tunes we've heard. So when the actual shows with full setlists and proper soundchecks and all of that start happening, definitely make the call. Don't yet put all the eggs in one basket based on, what, a total of *three* songs, one being the National Anthem?

Give it time. We ain't seen nothin' yet.

[Runaways]

didn't linett do the grammy performance? 

Not necessarily what we got out of the tv speakers. That's a different mix than the in-house mix, i.e. what the Grammy audience got.

I meant didn't he mix the tv

[Wylson]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0jaOha7xbw&feature=youtube_gdata_player

This video is 29 years ago. jeff Foskett is a big part of Beach Boys history. However I agree his voice isn't quite what it was (and never was as good a falsetto as Matt or Brian obviously, who is) and someone should politely say its time to let someone else do the high parts.

But jeff is a good singer at mid range. I would have been happy if the narrative had been that Jeff was filling in for Carl in the reunion, and that he's been performing with the band for around 30 years.

[FatherOfTheMan Sr101]

I think if anyone should "fill in" (which is impossible) for Carl it should be Darian.
His soul voice is incredible.

[Awesoman]

Nothing passive aggressive at all about wondering why this is an issue now when it's been the way the Beach Boys have performed for years, solo and as a group, unless someone wants it to be. Was it a similar issue with Blondie and Ricky being brought in as full members of the band and taking lead vocals on current singles at that time?

But, actually, I don't think they have performed this way for years.  In the past, despite bringing in some people to compliment their voices and add something new (Blondie, Ricky, et al.), the vocal foundation and backbone still started and ended with the Beach Boys.  Right now, that's very far from the case.  It's one thing to have someone compliment you, but it's quite another thing when they, mostly, start doing your job and regulate you to sidemen.  Hopefully we'll see something different once the tour starts. 

I'm going to call a time out here and ask the question, rephrased from the other reply I had:

We are basing this on a performance at The Grammys and a performance at Dodger Stadium, so far. Do we know who mixed those shows, do we know who ran the live sound versus what was broadcast, and do we know if they were under orders to deliberately mix the original members lower in the mix to favor the other voices?

If the mixing decisions were done on specific order, then who gave that order? We can't assume anyone is regulating anyone to a lesser role if the person manning the mixing board boosted Jeff Foskett's mic over someone else. If it turns out that yes, someone is deliberately masking the voices in some way, there would be an issue for sure. I don't know how much we can assume based on two performances outside of the usual BB's concert realm.

Methinks we're over-obsessing about this mix.  So Foskett's mic was a little too loud.  So what?  Who was expecting a perfect mix at a baseball stadium?! 

[I. Spaceman]

Nothing passive aggressive at all about wondering why this is an issue now when it's been the way the Beach Boys have performed for years, solo and as a group, unless someone wants it to be. Was it a similar issue with Blondie and Ricky being brought in as full members of the band and taking lead vocals on current singles at that time?

But, actually, I don't think they have performed this way for years.  In the past, despite bringing in some people to compliment their voices and add something new (Blondie, Ricky, et al.), the vocal foundation and backbone still started and ended with the Beach Boys.  Right now, that's very far from the case.  It's one thing to have someone compliment you, but it's quite another thing when they, mostly, start doing your job and regulate you to sidemen.  Hopefully we'll see something different once the tour starts. 

I'm going to call a time out here and ask the question, rephrased from the other reply I had:

We are basing this on a performance at The Grammys and a performance at Dodger Stadium, so far. Do we know who mixed those shows, do we know who ran the live sound versus what was broadcast, and do we know if they were under orders to deliberately mix the original members lower in the mix to favor the other voices?

If the mixing decisions were done on specific order, then who gave that order? We can't assume anyone is regulating anyone to a lesser role if the person manning the mixing board boosted Jeff Foskett's mic over someone else. If it turns out that yes, someone is deliberately masking the voices in some way, there would be an issue for sure. I don't know how much we can assume based on two performances outside of the usual BB's concert realm.

Methinks we're over-obsessing about this mix.  So Foskett's mic was a little too loud.  So what?  Who was expecting a perfect mix at a baseball stadium?! 

He was equally loud on the Grammy telecast. Not hard to figure out, again.

[Aegir]

It was a perfect mix, that's exactly how they wanted it to sound.

[endofposts]

It was a perfect mix, that's exactly how they wanted it to sound.

Mike Love said they wanted to showcase BB harmony by picking "Surfer Girl,' and that mix didn't accomplish that.

[guitarfool2002]

Nothing passive aggressive at all about wondering why this is an issue now when it's been the way the Beach Boys have performed for years, solo and as a group, unless someone wants it to be. Was it a similar issue with Blondie and Ricky being brought in as full members of the band and taking lead vocals on current singles at that time?

But, actually, I don't think they have performed this way for years.  In the past, despite bringing in some people to compliment their voices and add something new (Blondie, Ricky, et al.), the vocal foundation and backbone still started and ended with the Beach Boys.  Right now, that's very far from the case.  It's one thing to have someone compliment you, but it's quite another thing when they, mostly, start doing your job and regulate you to sidemen.  Hopefully we'll see something different once the tour starts. 

I'm going to call a time out here and ask the question, rephrased from the other reply I had:

We are basing this on a performance at The Grammys and a performance at Dodger Stadium, so far. Do we know who mixed those shows, do we know who ran the live sound versus what was broadcast, and do we know if they were under orders to deliberately mix the original members lower in the mix to favor the other voices?

If the mixing decisions were done on specific order, then who gave that order? We can't assume anyone is regulating anyone to a lesser role if the person manning the mixing board boosted Jeff Foskett's mic over someone else. If it turns out that yes, someone is deliberately masking the voices in some way, there would be an issue for sure. I don't know how much we can assume based on two performances outside of the usual BB's concert realm.

Methinks we're over-obsessing about this mix.  So Foskett's mic was a little too loud.  So what?  Who was expecting a perfect mix at a baseball stadium?! 

I know I've done it already, but at the risk of repeating myself yet again and maybe even kicking the proverbial dead horse, please take a look at this from another angle. At least for me, it's not the mix at the Grammys or the mix at Dodger Stadium being obsessed over. Rather, it's being mentioned alongside several posts I've read on this board trying to suggest that someone (or someones) in the band are deliberately relegating the original Beach Boys to sidemen in their own group by mixing the vocals to favor what may be stronger, non-original-BB vocalists in the blend. We can all hear this - but consider as you said exactly, what level of high-fidelity and a perfect vocal mix can be expected at a baseball stadium, anyway?

I'm saying again, let's wait until the Beach Boys can stage *their own* show and then judge what happens there. The Grammys and baseball were one-offs.

And if we are going to look closely at these two performances and start making assumptions, let's be fair and say that perhaps there were issues with who was mixing and how it was being mixed before pointing fingers at someone else and suggesting there is something almost diabolical at work here.

At this point, all things considered including age, the younger guys in the group might just have stronger voices than those in their late 60's and 70's, and Mike Love for one was always a softer singer who had to compensate for this by close-miking and all that stuff. If that is not accounted for, then the louder voices will naturally blast out in any vocal group. It's up to the person mixing to adjust that stuff.

I'll do it myself...the smiley:

[Fro]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0jaOha7xbw&feature=youtube_gdata_player

This video is 29 years ago. jeff Foskett is a big part of Beach Boys history. However I agree his voice isn't quite what it was (and never was as good a falsetto as Matt or Brian obviously, who is) and someone should politely say its time to let someone else do the high parts.

The big thing that annoys me about Jeff on the high parts (and he's still a great singer), is his blend with the rest of the group.  It's subtle, but he doesn't sound like part of a cohesive whole, or like he's trying to match pitch and vocal style with everyone else.  He does his own thing.  It sounds a little less open and with less vibrato than how the group sang together in the 60s.  He sounds great with a wall of Jeffs by himself but doesn't mix quite right with everyone else.

Works fine with Brian's band but it just sounds off with the group.  I don't think it's all genetics, either.

[Heysaboda]

I may have just caught him during an off day or moment.  He may have suspected the group I was with weren't real fans so he singled me out (they all looked like Ebay re-sellers).  Nothing more.  I regret sharing the story now but ah well there it is.  I apologize to any member who was offended by it.

By the way Justin, I wasn't offended by your story about meeting Foskett, actually it was an interesting story.  "Meeting celebrities" can be tricky.

I also apologize for my snarky and boneheaded comments about your story!

 

[Zach95]

Reading this thread now is hilarious. The shows are going great, and Jeff isn't at all the dominant singer, barring DWB.   

[Justin]

Hey thanks heysaboda ...I really appreciate that.  I was kinda embarassed by the story after I posted it because after looking at it after I wrote it--- it actually didn't look anywhere as bad as me actually going through it! Sometimes words can never deliver the full picture, ya know?  So I thought it was best to just let it go.   

[Pretty Funky]

Reading this thread now is hilarious. The shows are going great, and Jeff isn't at all the dominant singer, barring DWB.   

Maybe this board can take the credit along with a few other suggestions made here. Stamos anyone?

[NatureShowInStereo]

Where can I watch the official broadcast in video form online?