Disappointing release decisions

[Disney Boy (1985)]

What with all the recent talk on here re Why was/wasn't such and such on SMiLE, it got me thinking about a few other unusual decisions that have taken place re BB releases. I'd like to hear if anyone agrees with my complaints, or has any of their own.

* Why did we get a rather substandard demo of He's A Bum on Bambu? I know a far more complete version was recorded because i've got it, and it's fantastic! There's backing singers on both of the opening verses (including what sounds like Barney from the Simpsons), while the second section features a warm production and a wonderfully sad descending melody that simply doesn't come across in the released version at all.

* The aborted Christmas album (1978). The choices they made re what to include on the (fairly) recent Xmas album reissue were very odd. Why was Carl's obviously excellent Go and Get That Girl not included? And where was Mike's Christmas Day - no classic, but considerably better than some of the other songs picked for inclusion (at least it was an all-new track and not an old song revamped). Furthermore, why did they remove the catchy 'Ding-Dong-Ding go the bells' tag that repeats on the fade on every other version of the song i've heard? These decisions baffle me.

* Why where there no bonus tracks on the Capitol-era albums?

* And what was the official explanation re WIBNTLA being dropped from The Warmth Of The Sun? This one i just cannot possibly fathom.

[Andrew G. Doe]

What with all the recent talk on here re Why was/wasn't such and such on SMiLE, it got me thinking about a few other unusual decisions that have taken place re BB releases. I'd like to hear if anyone agrees with my complaints, or has any of their own.

* Why did we get a rather substandard demo of He's A Bum on Bambu? I know a far more complete version was recorded because i've got it, and it's fantastic! There's backing singers on both of the opening verses (including what sounds like Barney from the Simpsons), while the second section features a warm production and a wonderfully sad descending melody that simply doesn't come across in the released version at all.

* The aborted Christmas album (1978). The choices they made re what to include on the (fairly) recent Xmas album reissue were very odd. Why was Carl's obviously excellent Go and Get That Girl not included? And where was Mike's Christmas Day - no classic, but considerably better than some of the other songs picked for inclusion (at least it was an all-new track and not an old song revamped). Furthermore, why did they remove the catchy 'Ding-Dong-Ding go the bells' tag that repeats on the fade on every other version of the song i've heard? These decisions baffle me.

* Why where there no bonus tracks on the Capitol-era albums?

* And what was the official explanation re WIBNTLA being dropped from The Warmth Of The Sun? This one i just cannot possibly fathom.

- the version I hear on my Bambu CD is exactly the same as the archive version I never heard some years ago somewhere that wasn't my place. Just 2000% better audio quality.

- no idea: they should have included "Michael Rowed The Boat Ashore" as well.

- this question makes no sense whatsoever, as ALL the Capitol Albums 1962-69 have bonus tracks.

- take a wild guess, and you could well be close.

[Lowbacca]

* And what was the official explanation re WIBNTLA being dropped from The Warmth Of The Sun? This one i just cannot possibly fathom.

Keeping it for something cooler of a release, maybe... 

[Disney Boy (1985)]

What with all the recent talk on here re Why was/wasn't such and such on SMiLE, it got me thinking about a few other unusual decisions that have taken place re BB releases. I'd like to hear if anyone agrees with my complaints, or has any of their own.

* Why did we get a rather substandard demo of He's A Bum on Bambu? I know a far more complete version was recorded because i've got it, and it's fantastic! There's backing singers on both of the opening verses (including what sounds like Barney from the Simpsons), while the second section features a warm production and a wonderfully sad descending melody that simply doesn't come across in the released version at all.

* The aborted Christmas album (1978). The choices they made re what to include on the (fairly) recent Xmas album reissue were very odd. Why was Carl's obviously excellent Go and Get That Girl not included? And where was Mike's Christmas Day - no classic, but considerably better than some of the other songs picked for inclusion (at least it was an all-new track and not an old song revamped). Furthermore, why did they remove the catchy 'Ding-Dong-Ding go the bells' tag that repeats on the fade on every other version of the song i've heard? These decisions baffle me.

* Why where there no bonus tracks on the Capitol-era albums?

* And what was the official explanation re WIBNTLA being dropped from The Warmth Of The Sun? This one i just cannot possibly fathom.

- the version I hear on my Bambu CD is exactly the same as the archive version I never heard some years ago somewhere that wasn't my place. Just 2000% better audio quality.

- no idea: they should have included "Michael Rowed The Boat Ashore" as well.

- this question makes no sense whatsoever, as ALL the Capitol Albums 1962-69 have bonus tracks.

- take a wild guess, and you could well be close.

I meant POST-Capitol albums. And i'm listening to the version of He's A Bum (replete with backing singers and a proper studio production) right this very minute as i sit typing.

[Paulos]

He's A Bum - listening to the offcial Bambu version right now - backing singers prominent on verses? Check. Proper warm studio production? Check. So not sure what you're getting at.

[Disney Boy (1985)]

I have a version that is very different to the released version. There's what sounds almost like a spanish guitar playing during the second part (the backing track on it in fact sounds a lot like that on the opening of 4th of July). Does no-one else have this? On my bootleg version of Bambu, HAB comes immediately after Wild Situation (that's Wild Situation with the 'She got it hard and now it's a big erection' line intact). I've just listened to the released version to make sure, and they sound truely diiferent, in terms of production, pace, et al.

[Paulos]

I'm very confused, the 'Spanish guitar part' - which actually sounds like mandolin(s) to me - that comes in at 01:06 is on the official released version! The only booted version of He's A Bum that I heard was of poor quality so I can't give a comparison.

[Disney Boy (1985)]

Ok. Dennis's entire vocal sounds totally different also on each version. He sounds a lot less 'slurred' as he does on the released version, on which he sounds positively drunk singing the opening few lines. It's a different vocal. And there is definately, DEFINATELY no 'Barney from the Simpsons'-soundalike contributing occasional backing vocals during the second verse on the released version as there is on my bootleg (it really does sound EXACTLY like Barney - an observation a friend made, unprompted by me).

Let's forget about the He's A Bum shall we? The absense of bonus tracks from Sunflower onwards - anyone know what gives with this?

[Paulos]

Ok. Dennis's entire vocal sounds totally different also on each version. He sounds a lot less 'slurred' as he does on the released version, on which he sounds positively drunk singing the opening few lines. It's a different vocal. And there is definately, DEFINATELY no 'Barney from the Simpsons'-soundalike contributing occasional backing vocals during the second verse on the released version as there is on my bootleg (it really does sound EXACTLY like Barney - an observation a friend made, unprompted by me).

Let's forget about the He's A Bum shall we? The absense of bonus tracks from Sunflower onwards - anyone know what gives with this?

This I don't know, I thought initially it might have to do with licensing issues but Capitol got the rights to the Warners/Caribou/CBS albums and this must have extened to unreleased songs of that era because we have It's Over Now, Still I Dream Of It and Our Team on the GV box set.

Technically one of the post-Capitol era two-fers does have a bonus track - Male Ego is on the Keepin' The Summer Alive/BB85 two-fer, this was not on the original BB85 LP.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Fact is, there's only one version of "Bum" ever done the rounds, and that's a lo-fi version of what was released in 2008. Jon will confirm this.

As for the bonus tracks... if you post "Capitol-era", I tend to assume you mean 1962-69. It's an odd little quirk of mine.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Let's forget about the He's A Bum shall we? The absense of bonus tracks from Sunflower onwards - anyone know what gives with this?

The original gameplan was for bonus tracks in 2000... then it changed.

[Alan Smith]

Let's forget about the He's A Bum shall we? The absense of bonus tracks from Sunflower onwards - anyone know what gives with this?

The original gameplan was for bonus tracks in 2000... then it changed.

What was reason for the change and is it related in any way to Mark L's direct non-involvement?

[Andrew G. Doe]

Let's forget about the He's A Bum shall we? The absense of bonus tracks from Sunflower onwards - anyone know what gives with this?

The original gameplan was for bonus tracks in 2000... then it changed.

What was reason for the change and is it related in any way to Mark L's direct non-involvement?

The suits at Capitol back then kept changing the plans. We were lucky to get what we did.

[lee]

My GUESS would be that they have to keep unreleased tracks in the vault for when they decide to release things like another career spanning box set. They know people who own all the albums, GV box, etc. are going to need a reason to purchase another set of songs they already own multiple copies of. Thrown in a handful of unreleased songs and us crazy fans will buy it.

[Paulos]

Perhaps, but they've been hanging on to any post-Capitol era tracks for over a decade now with only Fallin' In Love seeing the light of day, even Hawthorne CA didn't have anything to offer in regards to the period in question.

[Disney Boy (1985)]

Fact is, there's only one version of "Bum" ever done the rounds, and that's a lo-fi version of what was released in 2008. Jon will confirm this.

This being the case, why then did they ALTER the song for release? (for instance, on the booleg the fade is instrumental only, whereas on the released version Dennis is singing throughout the songs fade). I'm not disputing you, merely saying that the bootleg and the released do have some notable differences (playing the two versions in tandem, as i just have, the bootleg also does play at a slightly faster pace).

[Justin]

Perhaps, but they've been hanging on to any post-Capitol era tracks for over a decade now with only Fallin' In Love seeing the light of day, even Hawthorne CA didn't have anything to offer in regards to the period in question.

If there was any time for Capitol to finally make use of the good stuff they have in the vaults: now would be the time.  The success of TSS, the amazing reaction to the new tour and all the hype surrounding these recent events are all pointing to a perfect time to make some bold decisions regarding some unreleased/rare material.  Let's hope they don't waste this opportunity.

[Jon Stebbins]

Fact is, there's only one version of "Bum" ever done the rounds, and that's a lo-fi version of what was released in 2008. Jon will confirm this.

This being the case, why then did they ALTER the song for release? (for instance, on the booleg the fade is instrumental only, whereas on the released version Dennis is singing throughout the songs fade). I'm not disputing you, merely saying that the bootleg and the released do have some notable differences (playing the two versions in tandem, as i just have, the bootleg also does play at a slightly faster pace).

When you say "alter", do you mean alter it from the bootleg mix? Should we have tried to mimic the boot rough mixes, none of which were done by Dennis or his engineers? In creating the Bambu mixes John Hanlon (who was an orig. POB engineer) often used his personal reference cassettes of mixes done by Dennis as a clue as to what Dennis might have wanted on a final mix. These differ greatly from the boot mixes which were likely done without Dennis' approval or participation. The boot mixes normally are someone going in quickly and putting all the multi-track faders up so you hear everything, even the things that would be eliminated from a final mix. All the Bambu tracks were mixed from the orig. 24 track masters. There were a ton of really messy background vocals on the He's a Bum multi-track because Dennis invited a bunch on non-singer journalists to come into a session and try to sing. The chance of all of those being on a final DW approved mix is probably not likely. But If you like your boot mix better that's fine. Mixing is a very subjective thing and sometimes we get attached to booted or rough mix elements that would never have been on a released mix. Smile has the same issues. FYI on Wild Situation you mentioned the last line, "and now its a big er*ction" having been removed. Yes, it was removed from the multi-track, and probably while Dennis was still alive, meaning it only exists on boots...most insiders agree that Dennis himself probably edited the line from the multi-track vocal because he didn't want it on there.

[Andrew G. Doe]

the bootleg also does play at a slightly faster pace.

Of course it does - that's because it's a (roughly) 5th generation cassette copy, and the speeds from generation to generation vary with voltage, tape deck and a lot of other factors. I've heard cassettes that, compared to the original tape, sound like almost like The Chipmunks.

[Lowbacca]

I've heard cassettes that, compared to the original tape, sound like almost like The Chipmunks.

The Chipmunks recorded a few BBs songs over the years. Maybe you really had one of those at your hands. 

[Disney Boy (1985)]

Fact is, there's only one version of "Bum" ever done the rounds, and that's a lo-fi version of what was released in 2008. Jon will confirm this.

This being the case, why then did they ALTER the song for release? (for instance, on the booleg the fade is instrumental only, whereas on the released version Dennis is singing throughout the songs fade). I'm not disputing you, merely saying that the bootleg and the released do have some notable differences (playing the two versions in tandem, as i just have, the bootleg also does play at a slightly faster pace).

When you say "alter", do you mean alter it from the bootleg mix? Should we have tried to mimic the boot rough mixes, none of which were done by Dennis or his engineers? In creating the Bambu mixes John Hanlon (who was an orig. POB engineer) often used his personal reference cassettes of mixes done by Dennis as a clue as to what Dennis might have wanted on a final mix. These differ greatly from the boot mixes which were likely done without Dennis' approval or participation. The boot mixes normally are someone going in quickly and putting all the multi-track faders up so you hear everything, even the things that would be eliminated from a final mix. All the Bambu tracks were mixed from the orig. 24 track masters. There were a ton of really messy background vocals on the He's a Bum multi-track because Dennis invited a bunch on non-singer journalists to come into a session and try to sing. The chance of all of those being on a final DW approved mix is probably not likely. But If you like your boot mix better that's fine. Mixing is a very subjective thing and sometimes we get attached to booted or rough mix elements that would never have been on a released mix. Smile has the same issues. FYI on Wild Situation you mentioned the last line, "and now its a big er*ction" having been removed. Yes, it was removed from the multi-track, and probably while Dennis was still alive, meaning it only exists on boots...most insiders agree that Dennis himself probably edited the line from the multi-track vocal because he didn't want it on there.

Thanks, Jon. That answers my original question. Personally i do prefer the bootleg version, although as you say this is unlikely Dennis's vision that i'm listening too. I knew the official release and the bootleg were two different versions (the 'Barney-like' vocals of which i was speaking about will surely be one of the non-singing journalists then). Even the lyrics differ slightly - he never sings 'He's a man, in love with life' on the bootleg for instance.
Interesting points re Wild Situation also - although in any mix this song is always going to kick ass!

[Jay]

Fact is, there's only one version of "Bum" ever done the rounds, and that's a lo-fi version of what was released in 2008. Jon will confirm this.

I have a version that's quite different from the released version. It's been a few weeks since I've listened to it, but I do remember that the tempo is much faster than the officially released version, and the lyrics are slightly different to what is on the officially released version. It is also a completely different vocal take(obviously, considering the different lyrics). 

[Andrew G. Doe]

I knew the official release and the bootleg were two different versions (the 'Barney-like' vocals of which I was speaking about will surely be one of the non-singing journalists then). Even the lyrics differ slightly - he never sings 'He's a man, in love with life' on the bootleg for instance.

Suggest you read Jon's post again - there are not "two different versions" (as there are for, say, "Be True..." or "Surfin'"): the boot version is the same as the released version, just with all the tracks 'up', whereas the final product is a proper mix, with certain elements either faded own or removed completely. As for the lyrical difference, Dennis obviously revised the lead at a later date.

[Iron Horse-Apples]

Regarding the later albums, I have all the single 1990 CDs on the Epic label. Only found out recently they are worth about £15 each now, second hand. Unfortunately I lent my Pacific Ocean Blue to someone, and that was worth quite a bit, wasn't it?

[Disney Boy (1985)]

Fact is, there's only one version of "Bum" ever done the rounds, and that's a lo-fi version of what was released in 2008. Jon will confirm this.

I have a version that's quite different from the released version. It's been a few weeks since I've listened to it, but I do remember that the tempo is much faster than the officially released version, and the lyrics are slightly different to what is on the officially released version. It is also a completely different vocal take(obviously, considering the different lyrics). 

Yes, i also have a different TAKE - not version then: a different take - that is very much different to the released version, which is all i was trying to say from the start.