Brian Wilson solo LP debate.

[MBE]

EDIT

[stack-o-tracks]

you're a jerk, u no that? 

[Wirestone]

I have been forthright in my criticisms of the attitude and opinions expressed in a small number of your posts.

I hope it's assumed on a board like this that such criticism is not of you as a person. I apologize if such an impression was made.

Edit: While my reactions are what they are, I'm also sure I could have been less snotty about it. I apologize for that, too.

[MBE]

Well thank you Wirestone. I am glad it isn't a personal thing. I just didn't like the last post because I really am sincere in trying as a wrtier to figure out what Brian has done as far as leadership since "Adult Child". Though I have done a lot of research on Brian's solo career, I honestly do find it a maze to get through the politcal aspects of it. It wasn't meant to be a knock at Brian at all. TLOS is one of the best albums of the last thirty years to me. I respect if you feel different on anything and I hope you know that. Please do feel free to challenge my opinions, but all I ask is that it is a friendly debate. Again thank you for gettting back to me on this.

[Wirestone]

No problem. You're certainly less crabby than I am.

I've just read and followed a lot about the BW solo albums, and have talked to a couple of band members, and it seems to me that Brian does has substantial involvement in the solo projects. But the machinery around him isn't interested in parsing it out, so it generally takes a few years until we actually know who did what. And sometimes that understanding shifts and changes.

For instance, Brian isn't credited for anything other than vocals in Orange Crate Art. But last year I saw it confirmed -- really for the first time ever -- that he actually did all of the vocal arrangements on that record. So he plays a much bigger role in that album than I had previously thought (I'd assumed Van Dyke dictated all the parts).

On the other side of things, Brian has a production credit on the IJWMFTT soundtrack, but he did literally no production on it at all. I learned a few years after the fact that most of those tracks were cut by Don Was without him there, and he simply overdubbed the lead vocals. All the movie footage (with the possible exception of DiA) is lip synched.

With that Lucky Old Sun, we're lucky enough to have the leaked demos and Scott's accounts of the genesis of the record. It seems like Brian wrote most of the music and some of the lyrics. Scott finished the lyrics and collaborated with Brian on the demo arrangements. The band helped flesh out the demo arrangements, and Mertens added orchestrations. It was all sequenced by Darian and Scott. So you have a very collaborative record, on one hand, but something that's very Brian on the other.

It's just that there's a strain on the board here that is very eager to assume that Brian has had nothing to do with his recording career for the last 30 years or so. There are posts suggesting that, you know, the band secretly writes all the music or something.  And I see no evidence that's ever been the case.

Have we changed the subject enough? 

[send me a picture and i'll tell you]

May I ask about the confirmation of the OCA vocal arrangements?  Always seemed like pure Brian to me, but I've seen it stated many times quite definitively (at least in the minds of the posters) that VDP wrote the arrangements.

Regarding IJWMFTT: haven't watched it for a while, but Brian's tardive diskenesia (sp.?) was quite in evidence during the performance footage, as he seemed to be trying really hard to get the words out properly.  If lip-syncing, wouldn't it make more sense to go for a more relaxed appearance and not try so hard?

[MBE]

No problem. You're certainly less crabby than I am.

I've just read and followed a lot about the BW solo albums, and have talked to a couple of band members, and it seems to me that Brian does has substantial involvement in the solo projects. But the machinery around him isn't interested in parsing it out, so it generally takes a few years until we actually know who did what. And sometimes that understanding shifts and changes.

For instance, Brian isn't credited for anything other than vocals in Orange Crate Art. But last year I saw it confirmed -- really for the first time ever -- that he actually did all of the vocal arrangements on that record. So he plays a much bigger role in that album than I had previously thought (I'd assumed Van Dyke dictated all the parts).

On the other side of things, Brian has a production credit on the IJWMFTT soundtrack, but he did literally no production on it at all. I learned a few years after the fact that most of those tracks were cut by Don Was without him there, and he simply overdubbed the lead vocals. All the movie footage (with the possible exception of DiA) is lip synched.

With that Lucky Old Sun, we're lucky enough to have the leaked demos and Scott's accounts of the genesis of the record. It seems like Brian wrote most of the music and some of the lyrics. Scott finished the lyrics and collaborated with Brian on the demo arrangements. The band helped flesh out the demo arrangements, and Mertens added orchestrations. It was all sequenced by Darian and Scott. So you have a very collaborative record, on one hand, but something that's very Brian on the other.

It's just that there's a strain on the board here that is very eager to assume that Brian has had nothing to do with his recording career for the last 30 years or so. There are posts suggesting that, you know, the band secretly writes all the music or something.  And I see no evidence that's ever been the case.

Have we changed the subject enough? 

Thanks for the info here. You explained perfectly why it can be hard to sort out. Brian himself has musically done things I never expected him to pull off since going solo.  I just dislike as you put it "the machinery" around him and his image since the mid seventies. I feel what he does should be made clear. For instance that Brian needs help to mix in stereo for one is obvious and isn't something to hide. "Love You" is the only release credited "Produced by Brian Wilson" that made that clear since 1976.  My only problem with Brian Wilson as a solo artist or as a Beach Boy since that point is how he's marketed as being "really" back this time out and fully in charge. The need to make it seem like Brian is again who he was from "Surfin" to "Friends" or "Sunflower" kind of backfires on him because he clearly isn't. It often makes the situation look worse than it is. It's a matter of accepting Brian for who he is now, what he can do now, and being forthcoming about it.

[Mikie]

Damn.  Somebody's a little sensitive and needs to get a thicker skin, eh? 

[Wirestone]

May I ask about the confirmation of the OCA vocal arrangements?  Always seemed like pure Brian to me, but I've seen it stated many times quite definitively (at least in the minds of the posters) that VDP wrote the arrangements.

Regarding IJWMFTT: haven't watched it for a while, but Brian's tardive diskenesia (sp.?) was quite in evidence during the performance footage, as he seemed to be trying really hard to get the words out properly.  If lip-syncing, wouldn't it make more sense to go for a more relaxed appearance and not try so hard?

It was a thread here with AGD within the last year. Surprised the heck out of me, but then, VDP has never had vocal arrangements remotely like that on any of his other records.

As to IJWMFTT: Yes, you'd think that. His demeanor in the "band" segments is very odd.

[MBE]

Damn.  Somebody's a little sensitive and needs to get a thicker skin, eh?  

We worked it out very well and I am glad Wirestone and I talked.   It's all cool.

[hypehat]

May I ask about the confirmation of the OCA vocal arrangements?  Always seemed like pure Brian to me, but I've seen it stated many times quite definitively (at least in the minds of the posters) that VDP wrote the arrangements.

Regarding IJWMFTT: haven't watched it for a while, but Brian's tardive diskenesia (sp.?) was quite in evidence during the performance footage, as he seemed to be trying really hard to get the words out properly.  If lip-syncing, wouldn't it make more sense to go for a more relaxed appearance and not try so hard?

It was a thread here with AGD within the last year. Surprised the heck out of me, but then, VDP has never had vocal arrangements remotely like that on any of his other records.

As I remember, it wasn't like Brian said before the sessions, 'ok Van the parts go 'this, this and this', or showed him what he'd prepared in any way, he just went into the booth and started doubling and laying down all the parts from his memory (or even off the top of his head). Which makes it super cool, even if the results aren't.

Then again, my memory is especially futzy today. I love stories like this and the one (isn't it mentioned in the Was doc?) where Brian is doing BV's on someone's record in the 90's, and the harmony he's attempting isn't working. So he goes 'goddammit' or something, throws himself at the piano and plays a intense boogie-woogie for like, ten minutes whilst everyone in the room is looking a bit  . Until he stops, heads back over, and adds a new part that works.

Ah, 90's Brian. Such a missed opportunity.

[MBE]

you're a jerk, u no that?  

Huh?

[stack-o-tracks]

you're a jerk, u no that?  

Huh?

I was talking to the guy behind you. 

[Rocker]

Why is this thread in the off topic section ? I'd love to learn more about Brian's involvement in his solo albums. In interviews he seems like he was more involved in BWRG and ITKOD than say in BWPS as far as the creation of the album as a whole goes (tracklisting, etc, not the songwriting obviously).
Also I dearly love OCA and think that Brian's singing is fabulous although I'm in the minority with that. I also heard some years ago (I believe it was still on the bloo) that Brian did all the vocal arrangements.